Tim Cook makes fun of Surface, as Apple's own tablet sales miss targets

Apple reported its quarterly financials today – although given the prominence of a certain other company in today’s news cycle, you’ll be forgiven for not noticing.

It wasn’t quite the runaway, across-the-board success for Apple that we’ve all grown accustomed to. While profits for the quarter were up year-on-year from $6.6bn to $8.2bn, on the back of a 27% increase in revenues to $36bn, the company reported that it had sold 14 million iPads – not a trivial total by any means, but still well below Wall Street estimates of 17-18 million sales.

It’s no surprise then that Apple’s CEO took some time during an investor conference call to comment on Microsoft’s Surface RT tablet, which officially went on sale today – what better way, after all, to deflect attention from this rare Apple miss than to talk some trash about the new competition?

While admitting that he hadn’t actually used or tried out a Surface for himself in any capacity, Cook's opinions of the product have apparently been formed solely upon what he and his Apple colleagues have seen reported: "What we're reading about it is that it's a fairly compromised, confusing product." He continued:

One of the toughest things you do with what product to make is to make hard trade-offs and decide what a product should be – and we’ve really done that with the iPad, so the user experience is incredible. I suppose you could design a car that flies and floats, but I don’t think it would do all of those things very well.”


This isn’t the first unusual analogy that Tim Cook has made regarding Microsoft’s next-generation products. Earlier this year – again on an earnings call with investors – he said about Windows 8:

Anything can be forced to converge. Trade-offs at the end of the day don’t please anyone. You can converge a toaster and a refrigerator, but won’t please anyone.”


So, Tim Cook believes that Windows RT is a flying car that also floats, and that Windows 8 is a toaster-refrigerator. Got that? Strange comments to be sure, but all the more notable for the open admission that these assessments are uninformed. Prominent tech journalist Ed Bott summed up the absurdity of it all as he listened to the call earlier today:


Source: CNET

This article was updated shortly after publishing to more accurately reflect the comments made by Tim Cook during the call. With thanks to CJEric.

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The guy is the CEO of Apple, what is he supposed to say? "Oh, Windows 8 and Microsoft Surface are awesome, so we are quitting what we do."

Seriously?

I have no love for this guy, his myopic vision, or Apple, but the responses here from both sides are kind of missing the point, with only one or two that seem to get what is important.

What is news worthy is that he commented on the product, even if to be dismissive, which means it has caught his attention, and enough to make a public remark about it.

The more a product is hated by people fighting for in love with the opposition and their products, the more traction it has and is and indicator of the level of threat it is.

If Surface and Windows 8 were truly crap or irrelevant, you would see generic jabs or Apple and others ignoring it completely.

Instead you should note that Tim has made a similar statement TWICE about Windows 8, using the "can't do both" argument each time.

Apple is and has been trying to get OS X working on the iPad or similar level of device, and failing. From both a technical standpoint, but also a usability standpoint. (No the iOS kernel is not OS X, nor is it even built from the same code, iOS brings over limited kernel features from the root XNU project.)

People at Apple REALLY do not like that Microsoft's Windows NT is technically so easily running on phones, tablets, and is the same code that is running on desktops and servers. They really do not like that the new Windows APP ecosystem does work with traditional desktop computing applications, even if it does need some refinement along the way.

Apple is upset, as they see their market spike not just hitting a plateau, but starting to hit a downhill slide. (Which is coming from Google and Samsung and others, and is now getting hit again.)

The Apple device model has this pitfall, you can't be the only maker of a new marketable version of a product forever.

This is why Apple is forced to be so litigious over things that are not normally legally protected, as they didn't invent the iPhone technology or concept, they invented the marketing and ecosystem.

The Nokia lawsuit last year is also something to consider, Nokia makes as much off of every iPhone sold as Microsoft does off of every Android phone sold. (Talk about a win win for Microsoft and Nokia, and they are using that money to crush both product lines.)

If anyone does invest in Apple, now is when you need to take note, and unless Apple has a 'new idea' beyond iPad/iPhone/iTunes in the next year, the prices will not hold, and Apple's cash reserve will disappear faster than anyone could predict as they flounder to create 'something'. The new iPad (3) and the iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 and iPad Mini are prime examples of Apple scrambling.


Everyone else, lay off Tim, he would be a horrible CEO if he stated that he loved Surface or Windows 8. He isn't Steve Jobs, so the comments don't have the unicorn and glitter, but it is what he is supposed to do.

I'd rather buy a Surface than an Ipad but that's because I still depend on laptops and I have and Ipod Touch which gives me better mobility, honestly what their CEO tell to each other is none of my bussiness, clearly this topics are what apple fans and apple haters dream about everyday, so they can fight about in bloggs.

I went to a BestBuy store and they only have the ASUS RT tab, and other more regular Intel based options, but already saw a customer that just bought a Galaxy tab and is going to return it because the RT tab has Office and he needs it for his business.

Reminds me of the netbook era, when all these Linux netbooks came and people said it was the end of Windows, but as soon as people realized the limitations and saw the Windows netbooks, they returned them and changed them for Windows. I can easily see people buying a Windows tablet for themselves and give their iPad or Android tablet to their toddlers, since they are the ones that get the most of them.

And people are talking about Android and iPhone having greater ecosystems than Microsoft... ecosystems are not measured by the sheer number of fart applications or 90% of the offerings available, which are mostly consuming apps. Ecosystem is about platform, something that keeps familiarity from the form factor of a phone to a tablet, to a desktop, server, game console. Ecosystem is about something that better serves us in our life, we do not simply consume, we also work, we use computers to produce.

Apple's ecosystem is only iTunes, phone and tablet applications and peripherials that complement their devices (which they messed up by changing the connector). Google's ecosystem is the Android marketplace and the cloud apps. But cloud apps can be accessible from any device with a browser, so a WIndows RT tablet can use Google docs and it also has Office, so strategically, Google is at a disadvantage.

Many thing that is so easy to overtake Microsoft, like the years of dedication to the corporate market and the consumer market meant nothing, like the years of experience working with third party hardware vendors and making things work could be easily imitated, or like the tons of documentation, knowledge base, education materials, developing tools, courses that Microsoft have no value at all.

Well, not so easy, Microsoft came back and made tablets productive again, now everybody else will become followers and will have to rush to catch up.

As an iPad owner, and now a Surface owner: Apple should be very, very scared. Their market share is going to plummet if they don't have an answer to Windows RT. Having the full desktop experience is awesome alongside a tablet experience. Microsoft needs to stay on top of getting the apps, but they will come.

It's even completely usable from my lap, with the kickstand out and keyboard cover down. I can't say that about the iPad.

He kind of sounds like Windows Mobile & Blackberry users when iPhone first came out.

I'm surprised he even mentioned surface. They usually ignore competitors unless they're worried...

Haha, this guy is a joke. It's somehow compromised because it hasn't gone the Apple way of removing tonnes of useful features that allow it to actually be used for something productive? Pfft.

So, according to Tim Cook Apple sells a car, and for the same price Microsoft sells a car that ALSO flies and floats.... uhm... decisions, decisions.. what should I buy??? This is the best Surface review ever!!!

But it also shows the difference between Apple and Microsoft, and why it is so hard for me to be on Apple's side:

Microsoft has nothing but praise for the iPad, Steven Sinofsky, Bill Gates, Ballmer all praised the iPad, they are going to give them Office, new Skype, Smartglass, etc. Microsoft has never criticized Apple in a commercial, except maybe for the price, but even then the commercial called Apple products 'cool'.

Apple on the other side takes every single opportunity to mock Microsoft, accuse them unfairly of being the target of viruses, of having drivers problems, which is expected for an OS that runs in a zillion different computer configuration with thousands of third party hardware. Apple only needs to test their software in a handful of devices and hardware combinations and they still mess up sometimes. Google backstabbed Apple and they make a success that is now eating right into their market, and when Apple gets in trouble again I'm sure it will be Microsoft who will come to their rescue.

This is the core of why I cannot be an Apple fan, or a Google fan, and why I respect Microsoft despite their issues with poor focus and slowness to bring innovation due to their need to work with thousands of third party OEMs and software developers and legacy apps. I respect Microsoft because they rather kill something they had like Live Spaces to better work with others such as Facebook, because it is better for the costumer. I respect them because they don't do viscious adverts, they rather have customers compare themselves, they work well with others for the sake of the customer.

I can never be happy identifying myself with a company like Apple that mocks the competition, the very same competitor that is helping them, that helped them when they were small and almost bankrupt. Granted, Microsoft has had vicious competitive practises in the past, but that is over and they learned, and I also respect that.

Microsoft is doing great things lately, bold and innovative. The most important change in computer UI in 20 years, and like it or not, the right direction towards the ideals of a natural user interface, like the ones we will use in the near future, like the Star Trek TNG touch panels. That's where we are going, our desk will be also a touch screen, no grid of icons or windows or menus, but objects and content. No fake brushed metal, or leather, or paper in a screen, but clean and beautiful digital objects. The UI is intuitive without analog representations of controls. It is the right direction and it was Apple the one supposed to have done it, since they can easily afford to break convention and come up with something totally new, but they missed it and now they are envious and ashamed of being a follower. I wish the same I wished Microsoft back in the 90's, to learn their lesson and stop being arrogant and mature, to learn how to work with others and play fair and honorably. Only then I may buy an Apple product again.

It is funny to read all of the comments that are saying that Apple and Tim Cook are jerks, childish behavior, this, and that.

*** All of you do the exact same thing towards anyone who says anything postiive about Apple or their products. ***

So look in the Mirror haters!

NeoPogo said,
It is funny to read all of the comments that are saying that Apple and Tim Cook are jerks, childish behavior, this, and that.

*** All of you do the exact same thing towards anyone who says anything postiive about Apple or their products. ***

So look in the Mirror haters!

Nobody else is "hating" on anything here except blind frothing-at-the-mouth Apple fanboys who're out of the woodwork as always, to hate on anyone who dares to question the factual inaccuracies contained in many statements of pro-Apple enthusiasts.

And I'm saying this in the general sense, not just this thread.

NeoPogo said,
It is funny to read all of the comments that are saying that Apple and Tim Cook are jerks, childish behavior, this, and that.

*** All of you do the exact same thing towards anyone who says anything postiive about Apple or their products. ***

So look in the Mirror haters!

who are "all of you"? I think Apple makes a fine product. I personally don't choose them, but usually recommend iPhone for people who need a good smartphone that other people will be able to help them with and offer good support.

Also, if you don't want to see sometimes biased comments, maybe you should go back to iMore, Android Central, or wherever you came from

ill start paying attention anything that bellend spouts once his "market share" hits double figures, till then STFU, show me how to get your products to be fully integrated with AD and a corporate domain, instead of being a glorified email display for real businesses. Oh wait that's practically impossible out of the box!

Mr. Cook who seems to have formed opinions based on what the press tells him has had the pleasure of the Apple loving press in his back pocket for quite some time now. And people have been forming opinions based on what they have been reading from the Apple loving press for quite some time now.

He will get a big fat does of how quickly they can turn on him in pursuit of ad click impressions and sensational headlines as time goes on.

Edited by jimmyfal, Oct 26 2012, 12:36pm :

what better way, after all, to deflect attention from this rare Apple miss than to talk some trash about the new competition?

A rare miss? Hasn't Apple been missing Wall Street estimates, but surpassing their own target, and still growing year after year, for a while now?

I do like the wordage used in the article to stir the Microsoft base up. Gotta get those clicks!

""I do like the wordage used in the article to stir the Microsoft base up. Gotta get those clicks""

I think the headline was meant to stir up the Apple guys actually.

Time to stop reading the headlines and opinions, and "Click In". If anything can be learned from Tim Cooks opinion based on what he read in the press it's that it's very important to develop your own opinions based on experience.

I'll form my own opinion about Surface this afternoon. I look forward to being in this game competing with an actual product that is no longer vaporware, but VaporMag.

Apple's profits could have taken more of a hit if they actually invested in some R&D rather than just rebadging hardware

I think its a good sign for MS. Remember how Ballmer dismissed the iPhone. Maybe this is Tim Cooks similar failing to realize mobile computing devices are not as orthogonal as toasters and refrigerators and can be successfully converged. Also looks like Apple may be a bit worried.. Missing expectations coupled with MS finally getting their long awaited product out there. Other evidence would be Apple's timing of their launch events around MS's launch events. Good competitive tactic so Apple acknowledges the competition. GREAT FOR US CONSUMERS!!! Go MS and Win 8! Give us more low cost choices!!

I've never driven a car, but I can tell you that they are terrible for pretty much everything. This bike I have gets me from A to B. A car just makes things worse 'cause it's trying to be too much.

/s

Most people i've spoken to (non techy people) are confused about what it is, that being said, these conversations lean more towards Windows 8, is it a tablet, is it a phone, why is it on a desktop? I don't know anyone (non techy poeple) who is wanting this device or to upgrade to Windows 8.

not a trivial total by any means, but still well below Wall Street estimates of 17-18 million sales.

Let's not pretend Wall Street estimates are realistic.

Apple's (second) Golden Era has passed. It's probably downhill from now. Ives stated earlier in the year that he was working on some "insanely great" products - if they were the iPhone 5 and iPad Mini, I think they've missed the mark (nothing groundbreaking). However, I do respect the fact that Apple was the first to the market with a really great touchscreen phone (at the time).

wow, between the unedited post and comments it really shows how much people fail a reading comprehension on this site.

Steven Sinofsky actually complimented the iPad at the surface webcast......

I think one should be honest. Realising the plus of the opponent is a plus!

I dont care what rubbish those guys talk, i buy what i want and when i want, and right now i want pizza and beer, hate when users fight over wich brand is better, and who got more lawsuits, i love macbook pro, but i hate ipads, love the android tablets, also pc user, but hate windows 8 i dont want my workstation to look like a tablet, dumped a iphone 4S for the Samsung galaxy S3, i dont buy things because i saw a guy on a white backgrond saying the same thing every year, this is the best apple product ever made

I like to have a car that flies and floats on day, guess I don't have to wait for Apple to bring this innovation. Will they stil be selling cars when the competition is selling flying carboats?

But seriously, his comments show plain ignorance. He mentions he hasn´t used Windows 8 but seems sure that it failed to create a non-compromise OS. Why? Apparantly because he they tried it and had to 'hard trade-offs' to create the iPad. So they failed and now he is convinced nobody else can succeed. And now he's re-releasing his iPads and iPhones instead...

If he had tried Windows 8 then he would see that it does work on multiple formfactors. On PC it is a big change, one that some people will immediatly hate because it is different. However the new UI is fast and has some smart integrated features that make exploring the OS a lot of fun. It will take some time but people will start to 'get it' (it took me a month to start appreciating Windows 8 on PC). There is also stil the desktop that offers a familiar work environment. So you can have a great touch experience on a tablet that docks and becomes a great mouse and keyboard PC. One device, one price. Purchase one app, accessible on multiple platforms. Etc.

So IMO you have an experience that works great on both PCs and tablets. If Windows 8 becomes a succes then he will always be quoted as the CEO that lacked the bold vision of his competitor. Not a smart thing to say, especially if you admit to not having tried the competitor's OS.

missing target with baseline of _millions_ is much much better than missing target with baseline of zero. but hey, the ballser says its magical. i'm sure _thousands_ of his fanboys will agree.

For any CEO competing in the same area as another company it only makes sense for them to not complement a product. These are the comments/backlash you get off of just one thing, one could only imagine if he said he liked it. What would that do for him, apple, etc?

Advent said,
For any CEO competing in the same area as another company it only makes sense for them to not complement a product. These are the comments/backlash you get off of just one thing, one could only imagine if he said he liked it. What would that do for him, apple, etc?

Pretty much. It is as if people feel here feel like they would get an honest and unbiased opinion if they asked the Toyota dealer how he felt about a ford...

Obviously, Tim Cook thinks the iPad is the best tablet ever made and I'm sure Steve Ballmer feels the same way about the Surface. The market will ultimately decide who is right, as it always does.

apple is scared as hell, why else would they hurry an announce of their new ipads 2 days before Microsoft's release.
apple always was and always will be arrogant. I have never touched an apple device and never will. you couldn't give me one.

Company I worked for tried to give me iPhone 5, I told the IT fella that I am waiting WP8. Hopefully Lumia 920, but unfortunately we are on Verizon. I rather stick to my current Black berry than any apple.

gkeramidas said,
apple is scared as hell, why else would they hurry an announce of their new ipads 2 days before Microsoft's release.
apple always was and always will be arrogant. I have never touched an apple device and never will. you couldn't give me one.

gkeramidas said,
I have never touched an apple device and never will. you couldn't give me one.

So you comment this thread where people flame about Cook not having tried Surface before he talks bad about it. And you comment it with something equal?

If you've never touched an apple product, how can you seriously have anything bad to say about it, or anything to say about it at all?

On the other hand, I've tried a couple of different Apple products and I didn't like any of them. But since I 've actually tried them, I can say that.

if my car could fly and float i would be amazed and just be so in love with it....i dont get what he is trying to say somebody explain

Lol this is ironic because under Tim cooks reign all we have is the most misguided and confused product apple has EVER created. The iPad mini. Too expensive to steal market share from the nexus 7 and Fire. Not good enough to draw people away from a Surface. You know who the iPad mini takes sales from? The regular iPad, that's it.

SteveyAyo said,
The iPad mini. Too expensive to steal market share from the nexus 7 and Fire. Not good enough to draw people away from a Surface. You know who the iPad mini takes sales from? The regular iPad, that's it.

Don't be so sure. Apple fans are very loyal and the "cool" factor means a lot. The way I see it, the more competition, the better. Microsoft FINALLY stepped up their game. A great time to be a tech junkie.

Cook called Surface a “fairly compromised, confusing product.

Confusing?

Tell that to all of the iOS users who have to swim and dive inside a massive jungle of icons. And that isn't confusing lols?

And it's not confusing that you can't even decide your self on how the iOS device should be so it can work best for you?

Isn't it confusing that Apple decides what's best for you and not your self?

This Tim Cook guy lives in a bubble who consist of idiots.

Apple, look, we ain't some stupid kids who don't know what a smartphone is and can do today. We are in 2012 where many peoples know how to use an Android og Windows Phone smartphone or Android tablet / Windows 8 tablet. We are not in 2007-2008 where Apple thinks we are.

Tom-Helge said,
Cook called Surface a “fairly compromised, confusing product.

He didn't. He said that's what they were reading about it. One review they could have been reading is the one from the Verge:

It does the job of a tablet and the job of a laptop half as well as other devices on the market, and it often makes that job harder, not easier. Instead of being a no-compromise device, it often feels like a more-compromise one.

CJEric said,

He didn't. He said that's what they were reading about it. One review they could have been reading is the one from the Verge:

Tim probably paid The Verge for that 'review', so he knew to ignore it.

CJEric said,

He didn't. He said that's what they were reading about it. One review they could have been reading is the one from the Verge:

CJEric is correct. The article as I originally wrote it stated that Tim Cook had called it "a fairly compromised, confusing product". I've now updated the article to clarify his actual statement: "What we're reading about it is that it's a fairly compromised, confusing product."

A small difference, perhaps, but it's important to get this stuff right.

IronChef75 said,

Tim probably paid The Verge for that 'review', so he knew to ignore it.

Yeah, sure. Something you don't agree with and it's....CONSPIRACY! PAID!

CJEric said,

He didn't. He said that's what they were reading about it. One review they could have been reading is the one from the Verge:


If you read the comments on the review everybody is blasting them for the review. Considering they had worse products with a worse review that got a better score.

I like how people are going nuts, like using the Surface is going to be so much difference than using Windows 8 on any other Tablet, sometimes with a keyboard..

I'm sure he's used Windows 8.. and after that it's just a tablet with an optional keyboard.. One that won't use normal Windows apps, or normal Mobile apps.. It wants to be a tablet, and a more functional "normal" computer with the full keyboard..

I don't see his comments to be that far out there.. You might not agree, as it's all up for debate, but it's not like he's coming from left field..

Ryoken said,
I like how people are going nuts, like using the Surface is going to be so much difference than using Windows 8 on any other Tablet, sometimes with a keyboard..

I'm sure he's used Windows 8.. and after that it's just a tablet with an optional keyboard.. One that won't use normal Windows apps, or normal Mobile apps.. It wants to be a tablet, and a more functional "normal" computer with the full keyboard..

I don't see his comments to be that far out there.. You might not agree, as it's all up for debate, but it's not like he's coming from left field..

First of all you're talking about Windows RT and it is more then 'just a tablet with an optional keyboard', which shows Tim and you have something in common.

Windows RT might not be able to run desktop apps, it is the full Windows OS on ARM. Meaning it has all the benefits of decades of development. All the network options, file management, hardware compatibility, etc. On top of that you can port over desktop apps to ARM like Microsoft had done with the FREE and FULL version of Office that comes with each Surface RT. It is a full PC OS but at the same time it has the advantages of a tablet: fast, light and great battery. So it is a car that can fly and swim, which is awesome.

Btw, the real 'Windows 8' is also something consumers can choose to get on a tablet. This OS does have all the old desktop apps available as well as the modern apps that it shares with Windows RT. But as a consumer all the applications I need will make (and have) made there way to Windows RT as a modern app. Once Windows RT has all the apps I need it really will be no compromise OS. Cook can laugh all he wants but one OS that adopts to multiple formfactors is a bold vision, something that he lacks (considering the iPhone 5, iPad 4 and iPad Mini).

Wait, you're telling me the CEO of Apple is an Apple fanboy? Shocking.

edit: I see you removed the part where you said Tim Cook was a typical Apple Fanboy

virtorio said,
Wait, you're telling me the CEO of Apple is an Apple fanboy? Shocking.

edit: I see you removed the part where you said Tim Cook was a typical Apple Fanboy

Probably didn't even read the article. Probably didnt even know Tim Cook was Apples CEO. You know these kind of people just see Apple in a title and go into troll mode.

Better if Cook had just kept his opinions to himself... for now. Apple is doing great, but Cook is no Jobs, so a little humility and respect would have scored more points in my book.

COKid said,
Better if Cook had just kept his opinions to himself... for now. Apple is doing great, but Cook is no Jobs, so a little humility and respect would have scored more points in my book.

Humility? Respect? Apple? LOL!

IronChef75 said,

Humility? Respect? Apple? LOL!


Sure, there was always Steve Wozniak, though a bunch of people around here get royally p*ssed if Neowin posts an article about the guy.

COKid said,
Better if Cook had just kept his opinions to himself... for now. Apple is doing great, but Cook is no Jobs, so a little humility and respect would have scored more points in my book.

So a public company should ignore questions on competitors in their earnings call?..Come on..

DomZ said,

So a public company should ignore questions on competitors in their earnings call?..Come on..

He could have answered it a lot better. Could have stated I have not touched one yet so I have no comments about it either way.

A toaster and a refrigerator hybrid that fires flaming, gasoline-soaked toast out at 100 m/s would please me enormously.

Especially if it came with batteries, motorized treads, and a remote control.

Relativity_17 said,
A toaster and a refrigerator hybrid that fires flaming, gasoline-soaked toast out at 100 m/s would please me enormously.

Especially if it came with batteries, motorized treads, and a remote control.


I know right!? better quickly patent it though before Apple claims it for their next iPad makeover

Here's the full context of TC's quote. Judge for yourself how accurate or not this article is:


Q: How do you think about the Win8 and Surface tablets?

A: Haven't played with a Surface yet. What we're reading about it is that it's a fairly compromised, confusing product. One of the toughest things you do when making a product is to make hard tradeoffs. We've done that with the iPad and the user experience is incredible.

You could design a car that flies and floats, but I don't think it would do those things very well. People look at the iPad and competitive offerings, I think they conclude the iPad is the better choice.

Many thanks for highlighting this. I've edited one paragraph of the article (beginning "While admitting that...") to more accurately reflect what Tim Cook said.

I appreciate your taking the time to point this out.

While I am loading 64GB of music onto that SDXC card I got in the mail today to put into the 64GB Surface I am getting, remembering how I keep trying to get AirPlay working on my iPad, I will remember you, Tiny Tim, about the trade offs I have made with the iPad for over 3 years.

nohone said,
While I am loading 64GB of music onto that SDXC card I got in the mail today to put into the 64GB Surface I am getting, remembering how I keep trying to get AirPlay working on my iPad, I will remember you, Tiny Tim, about the trade offs I have made with the iPad for over 3 years.

You have been "trying" to get airplay to work? Its not brain surgery. Jesus christ I feel sorry for you if you cant get Airplay to work.

Sikh said,

You have been "trying" to get airplay to work? Its not brain surgery. Jesus christ I feel sorry for you if you cant get Airplay to work.

Not my fault if music stutters, drops the connection, takes forever to load my playlists of over 30,000 songs, forgets my server, and is generally a pain in the ass to get working. Meanwhile, I play music using the Zune software on my PCs, streamed from the same server, without a single problem.

Sikh said,

You have been "trying" to get airplay to work? Its not brain surgery. Jesus christ I feel sorry for you if you cant get Airplay to work.

Oh, and AirPlay will not help next week while I am flying and do not have an internet connection where I am going. But being able to swap the 64 and 32 GB memory cards will help, something I can't do with my now obsolete iPad 3.

virtorio said,
It's not obsolete.

For me, in comparison to the Surface I am getting, my iPad 3 is quite obsolete.

I know, you are trying to show that the iPad is still relevant. But in my experience using the tablet I have with Win8, the iPad will be relegated to bathroom duty. Don't want to dirty the Surface.

virtorio said,
It's not obsolete.
The iPad 3, sorry.... New iPad is obsolete and has been superseded by the iPad with Retina Display. Hell, even the iPad 2 is more relevant since it still displays on their site.

Edited by Mulsivaas, Oct 26 2012, 10:13pm :

Arrogant and egotistical...yup, fits the Apple MO pretty well.

For a guy who never used the Surface, he is pretty much talking out of his ass ATM

techbeck said,
Arrogant and egotistical...yup, fits the Apple MO pretty well.

For a guy who never used the Surface, he is pretty much talking out of his ass ATM

An important figure dissing the competitor's product? You're right, only Apple would do that

Rudy said,
Apple would do that
Never said others wouldnt/never had. And would make the same comment if any other company makes a comment about something they have NO experience with.

Rudy said,
An important figure dissing the competitor's product? You're right, only Apple would do that

Missing the point for 300, Alex.

Jose_49 said,
The amazing moment when you realize that you can manage your iPad music using a surface pro.

yeah, and that you can probably start using the Surface immediately without installing 125 MB bloatware called iTunes on your computer first.

devHead said,

yeah, and that you can probably start using the Surface immediately without installing 125 MB bloatware called iTunes on your computer first.


Indeed. And you don't need a computer for transfering your music or videos... a flash drive will suffice!

why download thru iTunes when I can stream music for free thru xbox music.

Jose_49 said,
The amazing moment when you realize that you can manage your iPad music using a surface pro.

devHead said,

yeah, and that you can probably start using the Surface immediately without installing 125 MB bloatware called iTunes on your computer first.

I would generally agree with that, but I haven't had to hook my iPad 2 to my computer yet.

devHead said,

yeah, and that you can probably start using the Surface immediately without installing 125 MB bloatware called iTunes on your computer first.

Welcome to 2012. Where you don't have to download iTunes first to start using the iPad and/or iPhone immediately.

Jose_49 said,
The amazing moment when you realize that you can manage your iPad music using a surface pro.


The amazing moment when you realize that you don't need iTunes to use an iPad and that you can manage your music on your iPad.

THolman said,


The amazing moment when you realize that you don't need iTunes to use an iPad and that you can manage your music on your iPad.


You can, not need

What a jerk. Of course, I can imagine Steve Jobs being similarly childish. The fact that they feel the need to sue anyone who appears as a threat shows how their whole view of the rest of the real world. You would never hear Bill Gates making such a immature low blow.

devHead said,
What a jerk. Of course, I can imagine Steve Jobs being similarly childish. The fact that they feel the need to sue anyone who appears as a threat shows how their whole view of the rest of the real world. You would never hear Bill Gates making such a immature low blow.

I remember the last Charlie Rose interview with Gates. He had only nice things to say about Jobs. When asked why iPad took off where Windows Tablets did not he simply said, "They did a better job" or something to that effect. Sinofsky has repeatedly complemented iPad and Android as well.

Of course, both are easy to point out their vast limitations, and fairly so.

All he did was mention a conclusion a number of reviews have stated and he's a childish jerk?

Also, if Apple were suing everyone they saw as a threat, where is the legal action against Microsoft, Google, Nokia, LG, Motorola, ...?

And while you may not hear Bill Gates say things like that (1990s Bill Gates is a different story) Ballmer has certainly talked his share of trash about Apple products.

devHead said,
What a jerk. Of course, I can imagine Steve Jobs being similarly childish. The fact that they feel the need to sue anyone who appears as a threat shows how their whole view of the rest of the real world. You would never hear Bill Gates making such a immature low blow.

That's because you can converge Tim Cook and Phil Schiller but they won't be as good as Steve Jobs

virtorio said,
All he did was mention a conclusion a number of reviews have stated and he's a childish jerk?

Also, if Apple were suing everyone they saw as a threat, where is the legal action against Microsoft, Google, Nokia, LG, Motorola, ...?

Apple ARE suing Motorola over touch patents and stupid things like "overscroll bounce" which once again they have managed to patent even though its nothing new. This also means they're suing Google as Moto is owned by Google.

And Apple are always being immature a-holes and say crap about MS/Google. They even made them immature TV ads aimed at Windows with the "hi i'm a Mac" ads.

They cant sue MS though. When MS gave a ton of money to Apple to stop them going out of business (wish they didn't), they also worked out a deal where they share patents and agreed not to copy each other. MS also have more patents than Apple so starting a war with them wouldn't be a good idea.

Edited by NoClipMode, Oct 26 2012, 5:48am :

virtorio said,
All he did was mention a conclusion a number of reviews have stated and he's a childish jerk?

Yeah, that's right. His comments simply betray the type of person he is. Someone who can't be happy when someone else produces a good product. He has to take the low road and deride it, even though he's never even used it. What is he, 14? Give me a break. That's childish and unprofessional. How can you not see that?

virtorio said,
Also, if Apple were suing everyone they saw as a threat, where is the legal action against Microsoft, Google, Nokia, LG, Motorola, ...?

Oh and Apple have also sued Nokia and vise versa. You really don't know much do you.

virtorio said,
All he did was mention a conclusion a number of reviews have stated and he's a childish jerk?

Also, if Apple were suing everyone they saw as a threat, where is the legal action against Microsoft, Google, Nokia, LG, Motorola, ...?

And while you may not hear Bill Gates say things like that (1990s Bill Gates is a different story) Ballmer has certainly talked his share of trash about Apple products.

Dude stop living in the 90's.

NoClipMode said,

Oh and Apple have also sued Nokia and vise versa. You really don't know much do you.

You mean the countersuit in 2009, where both parties fumbled around for ages and eventually settled in favour to Nokia? Yeah, that's totally the same as devHead's claim Apple is suing everyone they think is a threat.

virtorio said,
All he did was mention a conclusion a number of reviews have stated and he's a childish jerk?

Also, if Apple were suing everyone they saw as a threat, where is the legal action against Microsoft, Google, Nokia, LG, Motorola, ...?

And while you may not hear Bill Gates say things like that (1990s Bill Gates is a different story) Ballmer has certainly talked his share of trash about Apple products.


MS and apple have cross licensing agreements, they can't sue MS. also no one is suing google over android as they give it away for free, its hard to win a financial settlement over IP infringement when the other party makes no direct financial profits from said IP.

NoClipMode said,

Apple ARE suing Motorola over touch patents and stupid things like "overscroll bounce" which once again they have managed to patent even though its nothing new. This also means they're suing Google as Moto is owned by Google.

And Apple are always being immature a-holes and say crap about MS/Google. They even made them immature TV ads aimed at Windows with the "hi i'm a Mac" ads.

They cant sue MS though. When MS gave a ton of money to Apple to stop them going out of business (wish they didn't), they also worked out a deal where they share patents and agreed not to copy each other. MS also have more patents than Apple so starting a war with them wouldn't be a good idea.

What had overscroll bounce before the iPhone?

Genuine question

Hardcore Til I Die said,

What had overscroll bounce before the iPhone?

Genuine question


Which Iphone had slide to unlock and touch screen before neonode?

.Neo said,

Yet another display of your inability to have a normal argument without resulting to insulting others who don't agree with you.

Yet another display of complete braindead iDronish behavior despite clearly seeing that guy ignored iCook's obvious low blows against the surface.

How much more pathetic could you possibly get?

virtorio said,
All he did was mention a conclusion a number of reviews have stated and he's a childish jerk?

Also, if Apple were suing everyone they saw as a threat, where is the legal action against Microsoft, Google, Nokia, LG, Motorola, ...?

And while you may not hear Bill Gates say things like that (1990s Bill Gates is a different story) Ballmer has certainly talked his share of trash about Apple products.

Yes considering in that same interview he stated he hasnt even touched one. Also Most reviews praise the hardware., They only had problems with the software.

javagreen said,
Yet another display of complete braindead iDronish behavior despite clearly seeing that guy ignored iCook's obvious low blows against the surface.

How much more pathetic could you possibly get?


So like I said, people either accept your personal viewpoints as fact or get insulted.

.Neo said,

So like I said, people either accept your personal viewpoints as fact or get insulted.

Yes, because blatant selective reading is apparently rather popular among a certain sect of the population.

You've also won 'Like's from some of the herd - keep it up. At this rate you'd win enough Internet buddies to make up for the absence of real life ones.

javagreen said,

Yes, because blatant selective reading is apparently rather popular among a certain sect of the population.

You've also won 'Like's from some of the herd - keep it up. At this rate you'd win enough Internet buddies to make up for the absence of real life ones.

Do you really have to swing this into personal attacks?

Ad Man Gamer said,

Do you really have to swing this into personal attacks?

That is a personal attack, how?

And calling me incapable to have a normal conversation isn't a personal attack? It's the usual zealot smokescreen theory (patent pending) employed by him.

Are you trying to say that any and all attacks, factually incorrect statements, flaming and other crap by apple zealots should be totally accepted without question?