Toshiba: Microsoft confused PC buyers with Windows 8 and RT

Mark Whittard, managing director of Toshiba Australia, believes Microsoft confused consumers when it launched both Windows 8 and the ARM-designed Windows RT operating systems at the same time last fall. He made those remarks earlier this week at a press event where the company showed off their new lineup of Windows 8 tablets and notebooks.

The Australian reports that, according to Whittard, "I think one of the challenges is, there was a lot of confusion with Windows 8, my personal view is that they (Microsoft) confused the market with a couple of different flavours," Toshiba at one time was going to offer its own Windows RT tablet for sale in time for the launch of the OS, but later decided to cancel those plans.

Whittard added that Windows 8 notebook prices have been much higher than new Windows 7 laptops and that price difference widened when Toshiba discounted Windows 7 PCs in order to get rid of their inventory. "They were going even cheaper than the traditional RRP (recommended retail price), so the gap wasn't just the $100 or $200 from non-touch to touch, it was $400 and the customer's going, 'Hang on a sec, that’s starting to get unpalatable, that price differential, and I’m not sure about this Windows 8 thing,'" he said.

The good news is that Toshiba is now going forward with new Windows 8 products, including a high end X-Series Qosmio laptop with an GeForce GTX 770 graphics chip with 3 GB of RAM, along with two 1 TB hard drives and a dedicated SSD. It will also launch the Portege Z10, a tablet with a detachable keyboard, shown above.

Source: The Australian | Image via Engadget

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45 Comments

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8 is a schizo os anyway. I'm a desktop, no I'm a tablet, no I'm a desktop, no I'm a tablet.
I can't stand the inconsistency.

People are morons. it is literally as simple as this: Windows 8 can install and run desktop programs, Windows RT cannot.

DONE. END OF STORY!

Bern@rd said,
People are morons. it is literally as simple as this: Windows 8 can install and run desktop programs, Windows RT cannot.

DONE. END OF STORY!

You give the average user WAY to much credit.

warwagon said,

You give the average user WAY to much credit.

The problem with average people is they don't like to "READ". Which is why the vast majority of them, have low paying jobs. They didn't like to read in school, they buy cheap stuff because cheap stuff doesn't require reading, its why they have bad health because foods that tend to be bad for you have single names and attractive candy colors and again don't require reading.

If everyone would read, they would understand what RT and 8 are. Fact is, the differences are truly the problem. The problem is a laptop with a touchscreen is not worth $500 premium in cost over one that doesn't have a touchscreen. That and the fact, maybe everyone doesn't want a touchscreen laptop or desktop.

Touchscreens were popularized by tablets and smartphones and that is the segment where it should have stay. We don't need a touchscreen desktop. But if you must, leave that to AIO computers and not typical laptops and desktops.

Bern@rd said,
People are morons. it is literally as simple as this: Windows 8 can install and run desktop programs, Windows RT cannot.

DONE. END OF STORY!


As long as the ones you labeled morons are the ones opening the wallet to buy what you sell it is up to you to attract them, not the other way around...

TechieXP said,
Touchscreens were popularized by tablets and smartphones and that is the segment where it should have stay.

Uhm no.
Wherever I see a screen these days, I want to touch it.
Mainly because I've been using tablets since Windows Vista and smartphones and AIO entertainment PCs, Point-of-Sale machines, Sales Kiosks, etc.
Touch is getting more and more prevalent and MS need to support it on all form factors.

TechieXP said,
The problem with average people is they don't like to "READ".

Does the Windows RT Box say "Does not run regular apps" I mean if it says "Does not run x86 apps, they won't have a clue what x86 means".

deadonthefloor said,

Uhm no.
Wherever I see a screen these days, I want to touch it.
Mainly because I've been using tablets since Windows Vista and smartphones and AIO entertainment PCs, Point-of-Sale machines, Sales Kiosks, etc.
Touch is getting more and more prevalent and MS need to support it on all form factors.

When sitting at a traditional computer an monitor in front of you, do you want to keep your arms extended to touch the screen suspended over the air / keyboard for a period of time?

I agree Microsoft should support touch, and they should not of ripped out the touch support they planned for Windows 7.

On a tablet touch screen, metro works.

warwagon said,

Does the Windows RT Box say "Does not run regular apps" I mean if it says "Does not run x86 apps, they won't have a clue what x86 means".

I didn't know that it was required to only read a products packaging to get the facts about the product before buying. It was reported that many people return the Surface RT becaus ethey relaized they could run x86 applications on it.

This a FACT that could've easily been researched without leave the house. All they had to do was visit Microsoft.com/Surface. In fact to fine out about most products by MS you type microsoft.com/productname.

As I said people don't read.
FACT even in credit card comercials or product promos theer is fine print. People dont read EULA's, contracts, credit card applications and more. But when they get the product and use it, and find out something they could have research fairly easily, they want to blame everyone except their miserable selves.

I stand by my statement. PEOPLE DONT READ!!!!

We live in a world where facts are at your finger tips and people are still to lazy to read. Its not like when I was a teen when you basically had to go to the store and find out product specifics.

When Microsoft announced the Surface RT officially, they stated it would not run Windows desktop applications. How is it I heard it, but millions didn't. Oh wait, I will give them a break, they didnt see the video of the launch. OK. Break over, the info was still on the website from the people who made the product. Everyone who has common sense knows thatif you want to find out details of a product, the best place to visit is the website of the company that makes it.

I am sorry I dont excuse people poor buying decisions.
All they saw was its a Windows Tablet and hey assume it was just the Windows we all know. I dont excuse stupidity from consumers. Becaus ethere is no reason to be stupid.

Everyone has valid points but it always boils down to apps. There's just no killer Modern UI apps so people still want to run their existing/legacy killer apps on anything Windows.

Even with the improvements in Blue, without apps, the platform will just be the latest Windows update running Win32 apps.

They didn't just "confuse" customers, they actively repulsed them! Between a HORRIBLE UI, locking down the hardware with "SecureBoot", and making Windows into a closed "ecosystem" with Metro, they have driven off more than one user! Some users value open platforms and know EXACTLY what they are losing with Microsoft's push to ape Apple!

I think Windows RT should have been called Windows 8, promoted as a mobile OS with no desktop app at all, and Windows 8 Pro as a desktop/laptop OS, with no Metro on by default, and the desktop as default.

Now things might get more confusing with Windows RT and the 8.1 number in its name.

A340600 said,
I think Windows RT should have been called Windows 8, promoted as a mobile OS with no desktop app at all, and Windows 8 Pro as a desktop/laptop OS, with no Metro on by default, and the desktop as default.

Now things might get more confusing with Windows RT and the 8.1 number in its name.

Yeah, because the NAME is main problem! /sarcasm

You know Toshiba, you could do marketing to educate the consumers on the products YOU'RE trying to sell!

Don't get me wrong, MS has handled this just terribly in my opinion, but it's the OEM whom are selling these products and they are more than capable of figuring out ways to help confused consumers.

wixostrix said,
You know Toshiba, you could do marketing to educate the consumers on the products YOU'RE trying to sell!

Don't get me wrong, MS has handled this just terribly in my opinion, but it's the OEM whom are selling these products and they are more than capable of figuring out ways to help confused consumers.


If I remember correctly Toshiba cancelled plans for a RT device!; it could be considered a way to avoid confusion....

People want Windows to the old trusted OS for getting this done. They didn't need to create some widdled down version to chase after iOS/iPad's success story. A full Windows 8 that looks and functions like Windows is the standard, and MS should embrace it, not run away from it by slapping what essentially looks and feels like a launcher over the desktop.

seebaran said,
People want Windows to the old trusted OS for getting this done. They didn't need to create some widdled down version to chase after iOS/iPad's success story. A full Windows 8 that looks and functions like Windows is the standard, and MS should embrace it, not run away from it by slapping what essentially looks and feels like a launcher over the desktop.

Interesting. My Windows 8 works awesome for getting work done. Maybe you have a different version of Windows 8?

But Windows 8 it perfect! /s

They need to change Windows RT to "Windows mobile" , and remove the desktop so users don't get confused. This shouldn't be hard since they are in the process of porting stock Windows apps over to Metro.

Agree with removing the desktop from Windows RT (hopefully that will provide more resources to speed things up all around) but "Windows Mobile"?????? No. BTDT.

Microsoft gave specifics on what kind of PCs they wanted ready for windows 8. OEMs decided not to listen and go a different route, so Microsoft created the the ultra cheap windows 8 upgrade promotion. OEMs lost a ton of money,and got embarrassed, and Microsofts windows division actually made money and sold 100 million windows 8 licenses. OEMs now have learned their lesson and that's why companies like acer, and now Toshiba are changing their tune and coming back with the products Microsoft wanted like nice little good boys. You don't mess with Microsoft. They will cut off your balls.

vcfan said,
Microsoft gave specifics on what kind of PCs they wanted ready for windows 8. OEMs decided not to listen and go a different route, so Microsoft created the the ultra cheap windows 8 upgrade promotion. OEMs lost a ton of money,and got embarrassed, and Microsofts windows division actually made money and sold 100 million windows 8 licenses.

The issue is Windows RT, as consumers familiar with Windows were expecting devices capable of running traditional Windows applications. It's one of the reasons the return rate for the Surface RT has been so high and why the sales have dropped off where the Surface Pro is available.

The issue is Microsoft's branding, not OEMs.

Jason Stillion said,
I work in tech support for a community college and we have some very confused students that bought a WinRT device thinking it was Windows 8.

Yea, I have the same confusion with the many users I support.

theyarecomingforyou said,

It's one of the reasons the return rate for the Surface RT has been so high and why the sales have dropped off where the Surface Pro is available.

Source?

vcfan said,
Microsoft gave specifics on what kind of PCs they wanted ready for windows 8. OEMs decided not to listen and go a different route, so Microsoft created the the ultra cheap windows 8 upgrade promotion. OEMs lost a ton of money,and got embarrassed, and Microsofts windows division actually made money and sold 100 million windows 8 licenses. OEMs now have learned their lesson and that's why companies like acer, and now Toshiba are changing their tune and coming back with the products Microsoft wanted like nice little good boys. You don't mess with Microsoft. They will cut off your balls.

The article is about W8 and Windows RT...

MS did it on purpose (also for Windows PHONE 8). In fact:

Windows Phone = Windows Mobile With Metro.
Windows 8 = Windows 8 + Metro UI
Windows RT = Windows CE Metro UI edition.

Like with nearly all your comments, all of that is wrong.

Windows Phone is not Windows Mobile with a new skin. It's basically a cut down version of Win 8 with a different UI and a few different API's, and shares the same kernel.

Windows RT is not Windows CE, which is totally different and runs on a different kernel. RT shares the same NT Kernel as Win 8 and 99% of the same features. It basically is Win 8, made to run on ARM with no desktop software support (because x86 emulation would kill battery life).

Brony said,
Windows Phone = Windows Core with PhoneUI
Windows 8 = Windows Core with Metro & Traditional Desktop UI's
Windows RT = Windows Core with Metro & Traditional Desktop UI's with restrictions in executables allowed to run
FTFY...

Brony said,
MS did it on purpose (also for Windows PHONE 8). In fact:
Windows 8 = Windows 8 + Metro UI
Windows RT = Windows CE Metro UI edition.

I'm sorry, what? What does Windows 8 = Windows 8 + Metro UI even mean? Just mathematically that literally doesn't add up.

Also, why is being a Brony even a thing...

W32.Backdoor.KillAV.E said,
Like with nearly all your comments, all of that is wrong.

Windows Phone is not Windows Mobile with a new skin. It's basically a cut down version of Win 8 with a different UI ).


WP8 is what you describes, WP7 was not...

What apps can be installed on all of those three versions if he's wrong? And i do not mean apps that are compiled for every version or apps that have a desktop version for the pc and a metro verion for the rt or the phone (and very rarely it will have a version for both). What file can you download that will install and work on all of devices?

Even tho some apks may not work on all processor a lot will install on exynos, snapdragon and even intel processors with no modification.

Face it. Microsoft did not want a phone OS on a tablet (the thing they should have done) because that would it their Windows market. And they do not want the full (or close to it) Windows Desktop OS on an arm processor because no ARM can really handle it well and apps written for one platform would not work on another.

They developed metro as a layer on top of the windows kernel that sometimes works the same on the phone and rt and phone, but mostly it won't. They might as well have been using java to have better compatibility between devices.

THey should either have put Windows phone on the tablet, or have the rt be an almost identical build of Windows 8 for the ARM chips (which at the moment it reall is not).

KSib said,

I'm sorry, what? What does Windows 8 = Windows 8 + Metro UI even mean? Just mathematically that literally doesn't add up.

It does, if Metro UI = 0. What a lot of people are saying ;-)

LauRoman said,
What apps can be installed on all of those three versions if he's wrong? And i do not mean apps that are compiled for every version or apps that have a desktop version for the pc and a metro verion for the rt or the phone (and very rarely it will have a version for both). What file can you download that will install and work on all of devices?

Even tho some apks may not work on all processor a lot will install on exynos, snapdragon and even intel processors with no modification.

Face it. Microsoft did not want a phone OS on a tablet (the thing they should have done) because that would it their Windows market. And they do not want the full (or close to it) Windows Desktop OS on an arm processor because no ARM can really handle it well and apps written for one platform would not work on another.

They developed metro as a layer on top of the windows kernel that sometimes works the same on the phone and rt and phone, but mostly it won't. They might as well have been using java to have better compatibility between devices.

THey should either have put Windows phone on the tablet, or have the rt be an almost identical build of Windows 8 for the ARM chips (which at the moment it reall is not).

You might want to rethink most of what you wrote. The winRT api on Windows 8 and on Windows RT are identical. I can complile the app for both platforms without changing even a single line of code. WP8 shares quite a few of the WinRT api as well. Your java comment is ludricous, we are talking native applications against java, which is non native code and therefore will always run slower.

And this is what I've always disagreed with. At first I thought it would be an issue, until I overheard an AT&T employee easily convince and iPad user what the difference was (only store apps plus built office for RT) when talking about the VivoRT and the Ativ Smartbook. If an AT&T retail worker can easily inform what the difference is to an iPad user, than its not a problem.

The only issue I see (which can be big) is all the people buying RT tablets online, without reading (which too many people do).