USB 3.0 battle heats up

nVidia and AMD are looking to wrest control from Intel over the specification for USB 3.0.

USB 3.0 is the next-generation high-speed connection standard due out next year that is expected to offer 10 times the speed of USB 2.0.

At issue is that Intel is allegedly not giving the specification to competitors in the CPU or chipset markets. Intel responds that it is "working hard to get the complete spec" to the industry. One source close to Intel alleges that nVidia and Intel are seeking the "host controller "specification that Intel says is beyond the USB 3.0 specification.

View: CNET: nVidia, AMD vie with Intel over USB 3.0

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"One source close to Intel alleges that nVidia and Intel are seeking the "host controller" specification that Intel says is beyond the USB 3.0 specification."
The same thing happened to USB 1.0, and the only real effect was that there ended up being 2 host controller specifications, UHCI and OHCI, and OSes had to support both.

(Yuhong Bao said @ #6.1)
Not very likely, considering that Windows 7 will be released by the time USB 3 becomes common on PC hardware.

It's got little to nothing to do with the operating system, it depends entirely on the chipset Manufacturers to produce drivers for the devices. Even by the time Windows 7 comes out, enough people will still be using XP to warrant them developing drivers for their stuff.

I still get far better throughput and reliability from Firewire than any USB2.0. Firewire S1600 and S3200 are backward compatible to even Firewire 400 and will still blow away the "on paper" specs of USB3.0.

(MioTheGreat said @ #5.1)
The peak throughput of USB 3.0 is higher than that of S3200.

Also, USB 3.0 includes an option for a fiberoptic component.

So? The "peak throughput" of USB2.0 is higher than Firewire400, yet Firewire devices ALWAYS outperform USB2.0 in sustained throughput, with far less host impact. I would wager the same will be true of USB3.0 and FirewireS3200. The only advantage USB has over Firewire is marketing.

(fuzi0719 said @ #5.3)
So? The "peak throughput" of USB2.0 is higher than Firewire400, yet Firewire devices ALWAYS outperform USB2.0 in sustained throughput, with far less host impact. I would wager the same will be true of USB3.0 and FirewireS3200. The only advantage USB has over Firewire is marketing.


I actually couldn't find any info on the sustained speeds for either. Do you have any sources?

(MioTheGreat said @ #5.4)

I actually couldn't find any info on the sustained speeds for either. Do you have any sources?

That would be my question.

I did really like Firewire, and it died a bizarre and quiet death as far as I'm concerned.

USB should/has to be a set open stranded and the specifications have to be open so the new hardware will work...how is new hardware going to work if you don't give the specification to anybody Intel?

The way I understand it the part of the spec that goes into devices is open, and device makers like scanners/cams etc can get it. It's the 2nd part, the host controller spec, the part that goes on mobos that Intel is holding back for now. So motherboard makers who want to add USB3.0 support to their boards can't atm. This effects AMD and nVidia and other board makers mostly.

(GP007 said @ #4.1)
The way I understand it the part of the spec that goes into devices is open, and device makers like scanners/cams etc can get it. It's the 2nd part, the host controller spec, the part that goes on mobos that Intel is holding back for now.

Well if thats the case whats the problem? Make a controller that runs the devices half of the specs and all is well.

(PeterUK said @ #4.2)

Well if thats the case whats the problem? Make a controller that runs the devices half of the specs and all is well.

Err. That doesn't really make any sense.

yes i really want nvidia to design the specification.

First they need to learn to make drivers, then they can talk about specifications...

(/ -Razorfold said @ #2)
yes i really want nvidia to design the specification.

First they need to learn to make drivers, then they can talk about specifications...

They're not designing anything; all they're wanting to do is standardise the host controller so that there are no grey areas in the specification; grey areas cause incompatibility issues, but Intel will claim that if it is too standardised, the ability to differentiate will be removed, and thus, competition can then only be done on price - which is bad for Intel.

(/ -Razorfold said @ #2)
yes i really want nvidia to design the specification.

First they need to learn to make drivers, then they can talk about specifications...

You say that as if Intel makes EXCELLENT drivers....

(some_guy said @ #2.3)

at least they are a heck of a lot better than nvidia...

I don't know about that, I've had all sorts of problems with intel's chipset drivers. I can't speak for nvidia's chipset drivers, but their video card drivers were leaps and bounds ahead of ATI's the last time I checked (admittedly it was a couple of years ago, so things might have got better), although they do have some minor bugs that can be annoying.
Basically, what I'm saying is they all have their fair share of issues.

(Kushan said @ #2.4)


I don't know about that, I've had all sorts of problems with intel's chipset drivers. I can't speak for nvidia's chipset drivers, but their video card drivers were leaps and bounds ahead of ATI's the last time I checked (admittedly it was a couple of years ago, so things might have got better), although they do have some minor bugs that can be annoying.
Basically, what I'm saying is they all have their fair share of issues.


Trust me, before they were good. The vista drivers have been terrible. Ever since the first few releases there are still bugs that exist, and with every new series there seems to get even more bugs.

For example with the new 175 series, powermizer does not work at all. If your laptop is on battery your clock speeds will not go above 2d. Hasn't been fixed in any of the 175 series, even though it was reported as a bug in the very first version [almost 2 months ago or so]. Plus the heat is excessive, and the driver crashes a lot.

With 174, the nvidia driver crashes a hell of a lot, and heat generated from the card is also quite a lot.

With the 150, 160 etc series, the driver crashes from time to time.

Ever since Vista beta 1 the screen flashing bug exists with nvidia drivers. Sure in the later versions of the driver its greatly reduced, but it still exists. Especially when you login or a UAC prompt comes up.

Hell it took nvidia like 10 series of drivers to get SLI working and some of the 8 series cards to work. Is that what you expect after paying 300usd+ for a card? NO.

The nvidia nforce 7 chipset drivers cause graphic corruption when playing videos and leads to an entire system lockup. This issue is so bad that there was over a 1000 page post on the nvidia forums. This issue was reported way back when the nforce 7 series chipsets were released, as of today I don't think it has been fixed. Nvidia keeps promising that a fix will come out this week.

Also, as soon as the 9 series cards came out, nvidia seems to have forgotten about the 8 series cards...

(/ -Razorfold said @ #2.5)
<snip>

Look, I can't explain it, but I've been using the 174 series drivers on Vista for the last month (and a different 17x the month before that, might have even been a 174 beta, I can't remember the number to be sure) without any of the issues you describe. Maybe I'm just lucky?

(Kushan said @ #2.6)

Look, I can't explain it, but I've been using the 174 series drivers on Vista for the last month (and a different 17x the month before that, might have even been a 174 beta, I can't remember the number to be sure) without any of the issues you describe. Maybe I'm just lucky?

Lucky for you.

My 7800GT is STILL suffering from the Fan speed stuck on 100% and graphical artifacts bug when resume from standby dispite serveral driver versions later.

Infact I've yet to find a verion that doesn't suffer that problem.
It's fine if I don't use the Standby function on my pc.

(/ -Razorfold said @ #2.5)

Trust me, before they were good. The vista drivers have been terrible. Ever since the first few releases there are still bugs that exist, and with every new series there seems to get even more bugs.

For example with the new 175 series, powermizer does not work at all. If your laptop is on battery your clock speeds will not go above 2d. Hasn't been fixed in any of the 175 series, even though it was reported as a bug in the very first version [almost 2 months ago or so]. Plus the heat is excessive, and the driver crashes a lot.

With 174, the nvidia driver crashes a hell of a lot, and heat generated from the card is also quite a lot.

With the 150, 160 etc series, the driver crashes from time to time.

Ever since Vista beta 1 the screen flashing bug exists with nvidia drivers. Sure in the later versions of the driver its greatly reduced, but it still exists. Especially when you login or a UAC prompt comes up.

Hell it took nvidia like 10 series of drivers to get SLI working and some of the 8 series cards to work. Is that what you expect after paying 300usd+ for a card? NO.

The nvidia nforce 7 chipset drivers cause graphic corruption when playing videos and leads to an entire system lockup. This issue is so bad that there was over a 1000 page post on the nvidia forums. This issue was reported way back when the nforce 7 series chipsets were released, as of today I don't think it has been fixed. Nvidia keeps promising that a fix will come out this week.

Also, as soon as the 9 series cards came out, nvidia seems to have forgotten about the 8 series cards...


I totally agree with you about Nvidia and Vista drivers. The latest WHQL got some of my games to go to a blank screen and locked up the computer. I had to reboot everytime. The funny thing is that the 175.16 (same version as WHQL) Beta didn't have this problem. So, they sometimes introduce new bugs instead of fixing them.

About ATI drivers, they are much much better now (Vista or XP). I also like that ATI always release monthly updates. Nvidia took 5 months to get another WHQL certification since december but they blow it up.

Intel chipset, laptop graphics and storage manager are working good in all platforms without any issues, at least in the computers i build and work with.

About the artivle. If Nvidia is trying to get their hands on Intel's own host controller, is more than comprehensible that they are not willing to do so because if like handing some of your advantages to the competition.

One source close to Intel alleges that nVidia and Intel are seeking the "host controller "specification that Intel says is beyond the USB 3.0 specification.


you mean nVidia and AMD?

ohhhh i cant wait "my epenis is size is a 3.. WHAT your only a 1.1 HAHAHA im 3times that you"

wootercakes maby my tv tuner wont lag when this comes out....... im tired of my current bandwidth im too damn fat for my width