Valve founder hints at Steam Box news next week

Gabe Newell, co-founder of video game developer Valve, has been pushing the idea of a Linux-based hardware product designed to hook up to a big screen TV for some time now. Today, Newell hinted strongly that more information on their "Steam Box" may be announced next week.

Ars Technica reports that Newell, during his keynote address at LinuxCon in New Orleans, said today, "Next week we're going to be rolling out more information about how we get there and what are the hardware opportunities we see for bringing Linux into the living room."

Newell, and indeed Valve as a whole, has been mostly silent about their "Steam Box" plans since CES 2013 in January, when the company showed off some prototypes to members of the press as well as other companies. Newell, a former Microsoft employee, has in the past been highly critical of the Bill Gates-founded company, and of Windows 8 in particular, even though the 64-bit version of the OS is currently the second most used operating system on Steam.

In his address today, Newell continued to offer his opinion that Linux is the future of PC gaming, thanks to its open architecture. Even though only a tiny fraction of gamers have versions of Linux installed on their PCs, Newell believes that the major OEMS who still use Windows will be in deep trouble down the road. He stated:

I think we'll see either significant restructuring or market exits by top five PC players. It's looking pretty grim ... Systems which are innovation-friendly and embrace openness are going to have a greater competitive advantage to closed or tightly regulated systems.

Ironically, Valve's former director of business development Jason Holtman was recently hired by Microsoft to lead its PC gaming and entertainment division.

Source: Ars Technica | Image via Valve

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A side note...

If Gabe is correct and succeeds, he will be removing Microsoft, the main creator of gaming technology for the past 20 years. There is NO company or 'collective of Linux developers' that are capable of stepping into this role.

Gaming today would look a lot different without Microsoft, from user shader code, GPU designs, to even the functionality OpenGL adapted from DirectX.

Microsoft's originally problems with OpenGL was getting support for gaming and supporting 3D gaming hardware technologies.

Mobius Enigma said,
Gaming today would look a lot different without Microsoft

You're right, it probably would look something like gaming on the PlayStation 3/4 or Wii U or Vita or 3DS.

Geezy said,

You're right, it probably would look something like gaming on the PlayStation 3/4 or Wii U or Vita or 3DS.

The APU in the PS4 is based on Microsoft SoC technologies.

The GPU of the APU in the PS4 is DIRECTLY based on Microsoft's GPU design. (The unified shader, onboard DMA, new BUS transfers for UMA, all came from Microsoft Hardware Engineers.)

The user shader languages used in the games on the PS3/PS4 are derived from a Microsoft created language and new way of handling shader code created by Microsoft.

Even the RSX GPU in the PS3 is based on modifications to the VS/PS GPU model Microsoft designed for NVidia.

The majority of all 'added' features in OpenGL 2.x - 4.x are based on concepts developed for DirectX by Microsoft.


----

This list of 'things' could literally go on for 1,000s of items... I have only mentioned some of the bigger and more commonly known items.

Just a few months ago, there was a video showcasing 3D model usage in movies, that went on to THANK Microsoft for creating the base technologies they created that are used in movies and video games.

Microsoft is essential to the entire movie effects/animation and gaming world today using 3D technologies they created, that I am still surprised to see a post like yours.

Do people not pay attention to what Microsoft does unless they slap their logo on a product?

Pushing gaming for Linux is a great thing for OSX, porting from Linux to OSX is much easier than from Windows to OSX

Rudy said,
Pushing gaming for Linux is a great thing for OSX, porting from Linux to OSX is much easier than from Windows to OSX


Porting from PS3 to Linux or OS X will be simple too, so there won't be a shortage of games to draw from on this new platform.

Not true. The kernel has basically no impact on the ability to port applications. Most of the APIs we use are in higher level libraries that are not part of Linux. Apple has created their own set of proprietary ones for the UI . In Windows you can load up Cygwin if you want to use a lot of the Unix APIs.

"Next week we're going to be rolling out more information about how we get there and what are the hardware opportunities we see for bringing Linux into the living room."

is this the year of Linux in the living room?

Linux could become a gaming platform, but it is going to require a massive number of kernel changes, and look very little like the current Linux we know today.

...and that is assuming Microsoft does nothing with NT and continuing to advance their video and gaming technologies.

I remember back in the day when Microsoft announced DirectX and gaming on Windows was born and all of the stories of how it was going to fail. Only a small group of hardcore gamers want to sit at a desk and play games, etc. Turns out people were pretty cool with playing games on their PC. The same might be true of a migration to Linux. Who knows. I mean it is totally possible for Valve to build their own Linux distro with perfect but specific hardware support with rock solid drivers from Nvidia, AMD and Intel. I could see a Linux based "PC Console" happening quite easily. After all the PS3 and PS4 are technically FreeBSD consoles

What I am saying is sometimes what seems like the impossible just sort of happens. About 15 years ago who would have thought Microsoft of all people would have replaced Nintendo as the number two (in some countries the number one!) console maker!?

I don't remember it that way. There were tons of games and players before DirectX. The skepticism was whether games would be playable within Windows rather than running them in DOS mode. I haven't seen a DOS game since about a year after DirectX was introduced.

As for linux being used as a foundation, how much work is involved with porting an Android app into a linux app? Additionally, has it been stated what platform the PS4 is developed on? Is it a unix derivative leveraging Open GL?

I don't really want this. What I want is something like the nVidia Shield that support "steam streaming" but as a cheaper set-top box with a controller. I just want to stream my existing PC games (that require Windows) to my HDTV without running a 100 meter HDMI cable. I'd pay up to $150 for something like that, maybe even $200.

Ironically, Valve's former director of business development Jason Holtman was recently hired by Microsoft to lead its PC gaming and entertainment division.

I think you mean "Coincidentally, Valve's former...." It would only be ironic if, say, Jason Holtman had been out-spoken about PC Gaming being something terrible or (as another example) had worked in the lobby to have tighter PC Gaming government regulations or something like that. Someone working in an industry and switching jobs but still in that industry isn't really ironic. /grammar-nazi-out

Newell could be right. Linux has received a MAJOR shove forward into the gaming industry with Steam. If MS keeps up with its' mess of bad PR, Linux may start to take more market share.

Linux is Free, MS costs... plus 8.1 is the only free update MS has offered due to the backlash of Win8.

chrisj1968 said,
Newell could be right. Linux has received a MAJOR shove forward into the gaming industry with Steam. If MS keeps up with its' mess of bad PR, Linux may start to take more market share.

Linux is Free, MS costs... plus 8.1 is the only free update MS has offered due to the backlash of Win8.

dream on. no software, no users, and no users no software. it's the chicken egg problem Linux has had for decades. and valve isn't about to fix it.

chrisj1968 said,
Newell could be right. Linux has received a MAJOR shove forward into the gaming industry with Steam. If MS keeps up with its' mess of bad PR, Linux may start to take more market share.

Linux is Free, MS costs... plus 8.1 is the only free update MS has offered due to the backlash of Win8.

Only free update? Are you blind? You do realize that Windows XP is still recieving updates even though it was released in 2001? You do realize that every OS they've released so far has SP's? as well as security updates and other assorted fixes? Whether or not you consider XP SP's on the same level as "8.1", it's hard to discount the amount of functionality added to XP over 12 years. Not to mention Vista or 7.

Linux may not cost up front, but Linux has typically cost more in time to learn and time to get working. Skill level and desired objectives may make that cost more or less, but to simply say that linux is "Free" is a bit lopsided. If it takes days or weeks of tinkering to get it working (and still be unable to use major popular programs/games), then it's not really "Free" is it?

Windows has its own issues for sure... popularity and marketshare make it *the* target for malware, but it's universally known, has most of the important programs and games "just work" on it for the most part. The "Cost" of the licenses for most people is well worth the trade in time and expertise that it would take to switch. It's definitely worth it, to me, to have something I can install and *KNOW* it will work.

Only free update MS has offered? Ever heard of the Windows Desktop Update? It was a HUGE overhaul to the Win 95 and NT 4.0 shells that came for FREE with IE4. You also might not be aware of the extensive differences between Win XP SP3 and the original. Free OS updates are a Microsoft tradition going back at least 16 years...

chrisj1968 said,
Newell could be right. Linux has received a MAJOR shove forward into the gaming industry with Steam. If MS keeps up with its' mess of bad PR, Linux may start to take more market share.

Linux is Free, MS costs... plus 8.1 is the only free update MS has offered due to the backlash of Win8.


...or you are wrong?

The Linux part is only the kernel, so I'm not sure what he means as a gaming platform. Someone would have to write the rest of it. The real development challenge is building the game portfolio which will run in the billions.

Hopefully it will have better graphics capabilities than the piston. Seriously, an onboard Intel GPU for a gaming PC...?

No joke. Why is it so damn hard for us to get a device with dedicated graphics? Even with laptops, it's like you have to dig just to find them. That's why I still build my own computer, as it's just not worth the hassle for a stupid laptop...

dead.cell said,
No joke. Why is it so damn hard for us to get a device with dedicated graphics? Even with laptops, it's like you have to dig just to find them. That's why I still build my own computer, as it's just not worth the hassle for a stupid laptop...

Yep I always build mine for the fact that I can control the hardware as well. Too many 'premium' computers seem to be getting paid with weak GPUs these days, it is just particularly insulting in a supposedly dedicated gaming box

The part I find stupid is you spend all that money getting all these high-end components wrapped in this little package that gets hot. What happens when you start to game and it gets hot? It slows back down. It's a paradox of sorts that I cannot understand. At least, as you said, with a desktop you have control of what goes on under the hood.

dead.cell said,
The part I find stupid is you spend all that money getting all these high-end components wrapped in this little package that gets hot. What happens when you start to game and it gets hot? It slows back down. It's a paradox of sorts that I cannot understand. At least, as you said, with a desktop you have control of what goes on under the hood.

Agreed, most enthusiasts buy custom cooling solution for high end parts for good reason!

Having said that though I think the idea is good, these units will still provide far more freedom than traditional console gaming and offer the benefits you already get from PC gaming, I'm just surprised with the obsession for making them so small. You could make one about the size of an original X-Box and still fit enough cooling in to make it usable.

I'll disagree a little since open systems can be too open, and thus messy. Now, one that sets and embraces Standards has an advantage. A consumer Linux has different needs than ones aimed at pros!

I'd also argue that being closed isn't necessarily bad, but it depends on who its closed to and why. An IT department benefits from being able to lock things down, as do the users since they're less able to mess things up.

Steam is closed as well, and goodness knows I've benefitted from that. Hell, Steamworks is a form of lock in, too.

Still, we need this. I might never use a Linux based Steam box, but I think its important that as the PC era gives way to Post PC,that the monopolies of the past continue to be less relevant for enthusiasts. The more options we have, the better.

If it was a basic window manager without any fluff, but looked alright (eg not anything like the crap gnome look) and had decent mouse acceleration I'd be interested.

His devotion to this is admirable but it's just never gonna happen, Linux will never ever be the "future of gaming"

It may just be. While we're still very early the move to mobile is happening now. As smartphone SoC's get more and more powerful they'll soon be "good enough" for average users. It won't be this year or next probably but "soon". The OS's we have now have a lot of evolving to do but the groundwork is laid. MS has the Windows kernel on phones now and Android runs on the Linux kernel. Again we're VERY early in the process so who knows how things will turn out but Linux, through Android, is definitely a strong contender. I think you'll find Android will grow to take on more and more Linux Desktop/Server capabilities just as Microsoft will merge Windows Phone/Windows (Desktop/Server) and Apple will merge iOS with OS X. Again this isn't going to happen overnight but I don't think you can count Linux out due to Androids strong mobile position.

the day a smart phone beats my GTX titan, I'll concede. until then, you're just living a dream. and by the time your smart phone does, my GTX titan 8 will be out beating your smart phone .

PC master race will never be vanquished by phones.

Asmodai said,
the move to mobile is happening now
Why is it that everybody think's every new market will cannibalize an old one. Mobile Gaming is a *new market* that has no to little effect on console gaming. The console experience is something "smart phones" won't be touching for quite a while.

neonspark said,
the day a smart phone beats my GTX titan, I'll concede. until then, you're just living a dream. and by the time your smart phone does, my GTX titan 8 will be out beating your smart phone .

PC master race will never be vanquished by phones.


There will always be people who use desktop PC's. Neowin readers are more "hard core" users then the average joe so most of us will probably still have PCs. Desktop PCs are more powerful than laptops though and will always be yet more laptops are sold every year than desktops now and more and more people have only a laptop because while slower than a desktop it's "good enough" for them. The same thing will happen with Tablets and Smartphones. Desktops will always be more powerful then Laptops, Laptops more powerful then Tablets, and Tablets more powerful then smartphones but for more and more people smartphones will be "good enough", just not likely us Neowin readers.

Asmodai said,

Desktop PCs are more powerful than laptops though and will always be yet more laptops are sold every year than desktops now and more and more people have only a laptop because while slower than a desktop it's "good enough" for them. The same thing will happen with Tablets and Smartphones. .

A desktop and laptop are functionally the same. That's not the case for tablets and smartphones which have severely crippled input capability.

Spicoli said,

A desktop and laptop are functionally the same. That's not the case for tablets and smartphones which have severely crippled input capability.

It's trivial to add keyboard and mouse support to tablets and cell phones. You could have your cell phone sitting on a wireless charger displaying to the screen (wirelessly) on your 60" flat panel TV with a wireless keyboard and mouse in the very near future. That phone could be running the full Windows OS on an Intel Silvermont+ 64bit SoC with gigs of RAM which while much slower then what you could buy in a desktop would be "good enough" for quite a bit of non-techies out there and if they're already doing to have a big flat panel TV and a smart phone is available at minimal extra charge.

Asmodai said,
It's trivial to add keyboard and mouse support to tablets and cell phones. You could have your cell phone sitting on a wireless charger displaying to the screen (wirelessly) on your 60" flat panel TV with a wireless keyboard and mouse in the very near future. That phone could be running the full Windows OS on an Intel Silvermont+ 64bit SoC with gigs of RAM which while much slower then what you could buy in a desktop would be "good enough" for quite a bit of non-techies out there and if they're already doing to have a big flat panel TV and a smart phone is available at minimal extra charge.
I doubt anybody would disagree that if you gave a phone spec's on par with a full blown PC it could be used as a gaming device.

A) that's pretty far off in the distance and
B) that assumes PC's/Consoles don't continue to get more powerful yielding better games than the phones can play.

Phones today can already play games of yesteryear from the PC.

MrHumpty said,
I doubt anybody would disagree that if you gave a phone spec's on par with a full blown PC it could be used as a gaming device.

A) that's pretty far off in the distance and
B) that assumes PC's/Consoles don't continue to get more powerful yielding better games than the phones can play.

Phones today can already play games of yesteryear from the PC.


PC's aren't going to stop being developed so a cell phone is never going to be faster than a dedicated desktop PC could be but they will be "good enough" for many average users in short time.

This is not "pretty far off" the Silvermont+ Intel Chips are becoming available now and can run all the same software (as in instruction set) as your desktop CPU (just slower).

Smartphone aren't going to replace consoles or PC's for hardcore gamer but they aren't the majority of the public. The same people who buy desktop PC's with crappy integrated Intel Graphics and i3 CPUs instead of i5 and i7's will probably find smartphones "good enough" in the near future (1-5 years).

"Systems which are innovation-friendly and embrace openness are going to have a greater competitive advantage to closed or tightly regulated systems."

Yeah, Ouya really turned the gaming industry upside down didn't it.

I think his point was directed at software distribution openness. I believe he would consider Windows 7 "open" by those standards and even Windows 8's classic environment. His big issue is with Metro and the MS Store as it competes with Steam. He seems to believe, wright or wrong, that if/when Metro gets enough support and the majority of people use software from there instead of Desktop apps that MS will drop support for Desktop Apps thereby "closing" windows (Much how RT is now). If MS were to allow anyone to develop and distribute Metro apps instead of having to go through the MS Store then I don't think you'd see him so interested in Linux. You'd probably instead see Metro Apps on Steam and maybe even a Metro steam client.

Asmodai said,
I think his point was directed at software distribution openness. I believe he would consider Windows 7 "open" by those standards and even Windows 8's classic environment. His big issue is with Metro and the MS Store as it competes with Steam. He seems to believe, wright or wrong, that if/when Metro gets enough support and the majority of people use software from there instead of Desktop apps that MS will drop support for Desktop Apps thereby "closing" windows (Much how RT is now). If MS were to allow anyone to develop and distribute Metro apps instead of having to go through the MS Store then I don't think you'd see him so interested in Linux. You'd probably instead see Metro Apps on Steam and maybe even a Metro steam client.

So essentially his expectation is that Microsoft isn't allowed to compete with Google and Apple and has to have a fragmented market that falls under his control to be successful...

He plays a dangerous game because no matter what platform he chooses to pioneer on, someone else can do it better - be it Microsoft, Google or Apple. If he goes android, GooglePlay can market everything, if he goes OSX/iOS - Apple can out iTunes it.. and again, shame on Microsoft for having a store right?

Lord Method Man said,
"Systems which are innovation-friendly and embrace openness are going to have a greater competitive advantage to closed or tightly regulated systems."

Yeah, Ouya really turned the gaming industry upside down didn't it.

That's not really fair. Given their budget, Ouya did fairly well in my opinion, a lot better than others could have faired. Given Valves (likely extensive) cash reserves, I can imagine that they've got the marketing clout to make the Steambox work.

It'd be nice to see a truly disruptive competitor in the arena, rather than just the usual suspects.

spudtrooper said,

So essentially his expectation is that Microsoft isn't allowed to compete with Google and Apple and has to have a fragmented market that falls under his control to be successful...

Google has an "open" system by that definition. You can install software from non-Google approved sources on Android. That's how Amazon has their Android store on non-Amazon devices. I think he'd be fine with MS having a store and competing on a level playing field with Steam just as the Amazon Appstore competes with Google Play.

It's also a different situation as Feature Phones were closed and so is the iPhone so people aren't losing anything. No one is taking anything away. Windows PC's have been "open" and so if MS "closes" it by making it Metro only somewhere down the road then that is different. It's completely different to make a market and have it closed then to take an existing market that is open and make it closed.

spudtrooper said,

He plays a dangerous game because no matter what platform he chooses to pioneer on, someone else can do it better - be it Microsoft, Google or Apple. If he goes android, GooglePlay can market everything, if he goes OSX/iOS - Apple can out iTunes it.. and again, shame on Microsoft for having a store right?

He's not afraid of competition. I'm sure he'd welcome competing with a MS store on even terms. If Windows goes Metro only in the future (like RT now) then he can't compete AT ALL. If you can only get Metro apps from the MS Store and the OS only runs Metro apps there is no place for Steam at all. He's not against MS having a store, he's against Metro apps being only available through that store.

I've been thinking about this for a while and I think it will not be a standalone box. A box hooked up to a TV running Linux will fail, no doubt. But a small Linux box hooked up to your TV that used a NVidia shield-like system where it streams games from your big desktop Windows PC seems like it could be a winner. This way a steam box could be cheap, small, and run Linux like Gabe says.

Asmodai said,

He's not against MS having a store, he's against Metro apps being only available through that store.

It's the key problem. Apple does the same , but at least that brand was pioneer in the tablet market. Microsoft try desperately to reach the same level as Apple market, and behaves as if android market doesn't exist. Big mistake imho.

bigmehdi said,

It's the key problem. Apple does the same , but at least that brand was pioneer in the tablet market. Microsoft try desperately to reach the same level as Apple market, and behaves as if android market doesn't exist. Big mistake imho.

I'm not an Apple user so forgive my ignorance but are you saying that the latest UI APIs on OS X are restricted to apps bought from the Apple store? I was under the, possibly mistaken, impression that if you could make bleeding edge OS X applications and release it through Steam or your own store. Microsoft is saying Metro is the future but restricting access to it to their own store. Unless I'm mistaken that's totally different from what Apple does. Unless you are talking about iOS but we aren't talking about mobile here. I don't think Gabe cares about RT or Windows Phone being locked down. He's upset that Metro locks down the Desktop PC OS.

Asmodai said,
I think his point was directed at software distribution openness. I believe he would consider Windows 7 "open" by those standards and even Windows 8's classic environment. His big issue is with Metro and the MS Store as it competes with Steam. He seems to believe, wright or wrong, that if/when Metro gets enough support and the majority of people use software from there instead of Desktop apps that MS will drop support for Desktop Apps thereby "closing" windows (Much how RT is now). If MS were to allow anyone to develop and distribute Metro apps instead of having to go through the MS Store then I don't think you'd see him so interested in Linux. You'd probably instead see Metro Apps on Steam and maybe even a Metro steam client.

The MS (Metro) Store competes with Steam like the Phonebook competes with all the businesses listed in it...

(He had a complete misunderstanding of the MS Store, and even when his colleagues were backtracking, he was already a hero to the anti-Microsoft crowd. So he is purposely remaining ignorant or is manipulating followers that he is as dumb as they are.)

#discreditedindustrywide

Asmodai said,

Unless you are talking about iOS but we aren't talking about mobile here. I don't think Gabe cares about RT or Windows Phone being locked down. He's upset that Metro locks down the Desktop PC OS.

I was talking of iOS (for mobile and tablets) which is a kind of "walled garden", and Microsoft try to reproduce the same success with win RT /metro apps. When Microsoft says that Metro is the future (and hence the desktop side of windows 8, would "become past") , other see a dead end.

Asmodai said,

Google has an "open" system by that definition. You can install software from non-Google approved sources on Android. That's how Amazon has their Android store on non-Amazon devices. I think he'd be fine with MS having a store and competing on a level playing field with Steam just as the Amazon Appstore competes with Google Play.

It's also a different situation as Feature Phones were closed and so is the iPhone so people aren't losing anything. No one is taking anything away. Windows PC's have been "open" and so if MS "closes" it by making it Metro only somewhere down the road then that is different. It's completely different to make a market and have it closed then to take an existing market that is open and make it closed.

He's not afraid of competition. I'm sure he'd welcome competing with a MS store on even terms. If Windows goes Metro only in the future (like RT now) then he can't compete AT ALL. If you can only get Metro apps from the MS Store and the OS only runs Metro apps there is no place for Steam at all. He's not against MS having a store, he's against Metro apps being only available through that store.

Assuming he is just against the 'store' for Modern/Metro Apps, it further demonstrates his willful ignorance.

They could literally provide a free Modern/Metro Steam client, and distribute their software from it.

MS is not like Apple, they easily allow any third-party commerce API for In-App purchasing.

Steam could create a 'Steam Metro Store' and distribute it through the MS Store for Free, and setup their own sales of Metro games that launch from the Steam Metro Store App client.

Gabe spoke without understanding the store, and rather than correct his misconceptions, he is using the fame to play on the ignorance of others to further mislead them for his own benefit.

#dishonestgabe

Mobius Enigma said,

Steam could create a 'Steam Metro Store' and distribute it through the MS Store for Free, and setup their own sales of Metro games that launch from the Steam Metro Store App client.

I'm thinking this would be against TOS. And if that's not the case , Microsoft can easily tighten the TOS later without any warning, as Microsoft have full control of which apps user are allowed to install.
And why would Microsoft allow a third party app to completely bypass their windows store ? It's against the "spirit" of the business model they wish (i.e easy money made by taxing apps, once the market is controlled).

I don't think his comments refer to the platform and method of software distribution. His comments clearly refer to the fact that Linux is open source, and anyone can modify it. It is also free, and thus superior. With Windows, it is highly cluttered platform, that cannot be freely used, and it is all tied to closed systems that Microsoft provides. This is really not the way to run a computer system. Valve is going to rock Linux, just like Android was rocked, and I am sure that eventually Linux is going to end up replacing Windows as the primary desktop OS. Can you imagine the day that people are rocking Linux distro's and patches like they do Android ROMs and patches? And the day when everything can be modified, patched, and distributed freely? Holy ****. We're even going to save money, because we won't have to pay for every piece of software we use any more! We also won't have to add $100-$200 to the cost of every PC or electronic device shipped, just so we can pad Microsoft's wallet.

nullie said,
I don't think his comments refer to the platform and method of software distribution. His comments clearly refer to the fact that Linux is open source, and anyone can modify it.

Well android is based on linux, and OS X on unix ; obviously Gabe want to follow a similar path for the gaming market. Why not.

nullie said,
I don't think his comments refer to the platform and method of software distribution. His comments clearly refer to the fact that Linux is open source, and anyone can modify it. It is also free, and thus superior. With Windows, it is highly cluttered platform, that cannot be freely used, and it is all tied to closed systems that Microsoft provides. This is really not the way to run a computer system. Valve is going to rock Linux, just like Android was rocked, and I am sure that eventually Linux is going to end up replacing Windows as the primary desktop OS. Can you imagine the day that people are rocking Linux distro's and patches like they do Android ROMs and patches? And the day when everything can be modified, patched, and distributed freely? Holy ****. We're even going to save money, because we won't have to pay for every piece of software we use any more! We also won't have to add $100-$200 to the cost of every PC or electronic device shipped, just so we can pad Microsoft's wallet.

Try reading this: http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/...s-at-steambox-announcement/

It's funny how many say he doesn't "get it", when most of the naysayers don't get what he's saying.

bigmehdi said,

Well android is based on linux, and OS X on unix ; obviously Gabe want to follow a similar path for the gaming market. Why not.

OS X uses the Unix OS model and the XNU kernel, but it is far from OSS, even with the Darwin releases from Apple.

Being based on 'Unix' does not make an OS inherently more open or more extensible.

In the year 2013, the Unix OS model is an antiquated hindrance that creates more 'patch' work for modern hardware than its original benefits help.

bigmehdi said,

I'm thinking this would be against TOS. And if that's not the case , Microsoft can easily tighten the TOS later without any warning, as Microsoft have full control of which apps user are allowed to install.
And why would Microsoft allow a third party app to completely bypass their windows store ? It's against the "spirit" of the business model they wish (i.e easy money made by taxing apps, once the market is controlled).

It is not against their ToS. This is the primary difference between apple store and ms store.

bigmehdi said,

I'm thinking this would be against TOS. And if that's not the case , Microsoft can easily tighten the TOS later without any warning, as Microsoft have full control of which apps user are allowed to install.
And why would Microsoft allow a third party app to completely bypass their windows store ? It's against the "spirit" of the business model they wish (i.e easy money made by taxing apps, once the market is controlled).

It actually isn't against the TOS, 3rd party commerce is supported.

As for the 'future', a flaming ball of monkeys could hit the earth too, doesn't mean we should take the threat seriously.

Microsoft would destroy themselves if they pushed back against Apps or tried to change any of the 'terms' they are bound by.

(Microsoft even allows desktop developers to use the 'Store' as a catalog, which Steam could be using now to list their entire lineup of content, and they don't. Other game publishers distributors like BigFish/etc take advantage of the store to list their Apps, which Microsoft gets $0 off the sales.)

Mobius Enigma said,

Being based on 'Unix' does not make an OS inherently more open or more extensible.

Well, the idea is that if a company want to use their own "custom OS" today, it won't take many year, and they won't have to rewrite everything from scratch.
And since Gabe would run first his OS from a limited range of hardware such like the "steam box", the argument that unix os model is a hindrance as it create more work to support new material is moot.