Valve: Linux is more viable than Windows 8 for gaming

While Linux fans will say that next year is finally the year of Linux, it seems that Valve is really hoping that next year, truly is the year of Linux. The company has not been shy about bashing Windows 8 in favor Linux and now they are getting even more aggressive with their tactics.

At a presentation at a Ubuntu developer summit in Denmark, Drew Bliss, an employee of Valve, stated that Linux is more viable than Windows 8 for gaming, according to Ubuntuvibes.com. Bliss is quoted as saying the following too:

  • Steam client is running nicely on Ubuntu and many developers have approached them with good game products.
  • Cooperation with Canonical has been good.
  • Ubuntu is preferred platform as it has a large user base and good community support with a strong company like Canonical behind it. 
  • Linux has everything they need: good OpenGL, pulseaudio, OpenAL and input support.
  • New Source engine games will be available for Linux.
  • No firm time frame for Steam Linux release, but soon.
  • Copy protection is up to the game publishers.

The strong words against Microsoft are surely because of the Windows Store which Valve feels is a threat to their own Steam client. While the long term effect of Windows 8 and the open nature of Windows will not be known for some time, Valve certainly feels that it is a step in the wrong direction.

It will be interesting to see if Valve can move consumers to Linux as Steam has a very loyal fanbase but at the same time, Ubuntu is not nearly as polished as Windows 7 or Windows 8.

Source: UbuntuVibes.com

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STEAM is the reason people WANT to buy games, STEAM is the reason piracy on PC is decreasing eventually, STEAM is the reason i didn't buy any 7 Year old CrapBox, STEAM fulfills any PC Gamer's needs, But Windows 8 has a better performance against Windows 7 (Personal Experience) One thing's for sure i won't switch to Linux, And i will use STEAM with Windows 8.

I've seen everyone here laughing their head off but there is a very simple thing about supporting Linux. It's a very simple step from their to natural environments on Windows and a Linux based console (aka "Value Hardware Project"). Window's main advantage was the micro-kernel making it easy to plug in and out hardware parts however with the SoC designs this is a dying market (aka "Window RT").

Apple knows it, Google knows it, MS knows it, even Mozilla knows it. Valve does too so it is adaption time for the whole industry and MS approach is very different from Google, closing off the RT system so they have last say as opposed to Android which is an partner based innovation alliance (even if their is a strong leader).

The idea of Windows being front and central on different hardware is going quicker and quicker (that's what the whole Metro/Modern/RT thing is really about). This mistake would be underestimating this move as Valve does have a massive following and them integrating a system in either SoC Linux or Android could seriously cripple the Window market size. This is not about today but tomorrow.

Anyone that has a tiny bit of knowledge of kernel design, OS model, or even how DirectX or OpenGL works would pee themselves laughing at Valve.

Go through a tiny checklist, and see why Windows is always going to be faster, unless Linux is completely redesigned and thus no longer becomes Linux.

Software Complexity Overhead
- Linux is a classic *nix minimalist OS model. This is really fast for crunching char arrays, but when you get into more complex software models, like 'gaming' for example, the overhead to add in the necessary 'modern' features software requires starts to diminish performance rather quickly.
- NT (Windows) on the other hand started out slower in 1993, being an Object Based OS model with various kernel API layers and even a translation HAL. These technologies had never been incorporated into a single OS design before, with some of them only existing in theory prior to NT. They initially had 'overhead' when NT was released in 1993 on 80486 processors, as the complexity in dealing with Objects took a bit more computing power. However by 1996 and the NT 4.0 timeline, the 'overhead' that exists in NT was consumed by the increases in CPU power and the lack of additional coding necessary as software complexity was starting to need the extra features that comprised the overhead.

(NT was designed like this specifically for portability, security, and extensibility - the object model serves both the security and the extensibility needs, as new and older code can co-exist when the OS is dealing with Objects and not strict functional code that changing a parameter would break code.)

So for complex code, a lot more work has to be done by developers and this creates a lot more overhead that is just automatically handled by the core OS model features of NT.


Graphics
-Linux Video Drivers - wow, that is a dirty mess in a bowl of guts. NVidia and ATI both had create a new bypass video driver system for Linux (which is why they didn't want to released them as OSS, as it is more complex technology than people realize, as it literally is sitting on a low level of Linux and implementing all video operations in a new duck tape video model.
-Windows -The WDDM/WDM video driver model is something Apple is envious, let alone anything 'duck taped' on Linux. Windows pre-emptively manages GPU threads and scheduling and RAM, something no other OS in the world does. This is why the elaborate 3D UI of Windows 7/8 and games can run flawlessly without the UI ever stuttering, even if you are running Crysis 2 in a Window and FarCry in another Window at the same time, while Photoshop is using GP-GPU operations at the same time.

OpenGL - 4.x is better, but still not in the same performance league as DX11 or DX11.1, and the irony here is that the fastest implementation of OpenGL is ATI/NVidia while running on Windows 7 and Windows 8.
-DirectX 11.1 versus OpenGL 4.x - Anyone that has worked with even DX11 can explain why OpenGL cannot keep up to DirectX. With Windows 8 and DX 11.1, this adds a new level of abstraction and pass-through for developers that even benefits existing software.

When people talk about Windows 8 gaming being 'faster' than Windows 7 gaming, this is not something that is quite as basic as it might seem. In Windows 8 the DWM and Composer is turned on full time, even while full screen games are active.

This is equivalent to running the game in Windows 7 in a Window with Aero/DWM fully enabled, which is a 20% drop in performance compared to a full screen exclusive mode game.

Windows 8 is not only beating Windows 7, it is also doing it while running games through the composer without the 20% drop in performance.

I am going to send Valve a few books on OS Theory/Model and Kernel Engineering, and maybe even Inside NT, as they have not a clue how it compares to Linux and why it was designed to not be a limited by the same OS model/features that Linux is built around.

As for the Windows 8 being more close or the Windows 8 App Store being a threat, it is strange that very few 'serious' names in the industry see find credibility in Valve and similar comments. Many going as far to imply they are insane, rather than just be dismissive of the comments.

After all this drum beating and saber rattling by Valve, I wonder how many other consumers are turned off and won't use their service or buy their software.


In other words, Really, and Wow...

thenetavenger said,

After all this drum beating and saber rattling by Valve, I wonder how many other consumers are turned off and won't use their service or buy their software.

Trust me, not many.

laserfloyd said,
Yes because everyone I know is dropping Windows and buying Linux. /s

I saw several people at stores like Best Buy this weekend returning Android tablets and trying to buy or preordering Windows RT and Windows 8 Tablets.

It was almost like the Netbook Linux movement that worked out so well for Linux.

Sonne said,
Love seeing the Microsoft monopoly slowly lose its grip.

Windows 8 is outpacing Windows 7 in initial sales, and they still have over 90% of the personal computer market.

(There were more Vista users than all the Macs sold in the history of Apple.)

I love linux but I haven't switch complete. I like to game and gpu drivers support still crappy. Win8 home should have been metro default and professional version option metro ui, I like to feel in control of my os and metro makes me feel stupid and gay.

i have just installed Windows 8 and its great! I have steam and it would be great to have all the games on linux as well. If they was all on linux then it would be a tough call.

What is Gabe afraid of?
It will be good for people in Ubuntu to use Steam for Source games but what about other developers that make big title games like Bioshock? If it is just going to be Source games, small developers, and Humble Indie Bundle games then all this talk is nothing special. I don't even see any big games in the Xbox app unless you count Angry Birds in Space. Hell my "Game Activity" list Games for Windows games I bought and play from Steam.

Just so you know, I'm not moving to Linux just for Steam, Gaben. It's the worst OS out of the major 3 for a gamer. Just make a Win 8 metro client and chill out. I have Win 8 installed and Steam will ALWAYS be running in the background because I love ist auto-patching and community features. I'd prefer a live tile of sales for the day and steam friend messages and comments on my page though. Thanks in advance, bro-ham.

ok so google has the same appstore model. so does apple. now so does MSFT. get over it valve. it is time for you to go home.

Oh wait. They ignore at least 3 MAJOR facts.

1) Ubuntu != Linux
2) Linux has POOR vga driver support for lots of devices, especially newer ones
3) Linux has POOR sound driver support for lots of devices, especially newer ones

Excellent for gaming, FURSURE. But rest assured, I got it, Gaben, you're ****ed that Win8 ruins your business, so you gotta hate. Be my guest )

bviktor said,

2) Linux has POOR vga driver support for lots of devices, especially newer ones

That's why their games run with 20% more FPS using Ubuntu.....

Edited by Karanlos, Oct 29 2012, 9:18pm :

Karanlos said,

That's why their games run with 20% more FPS using Ubuntu.....


[citation needed]

Have you ever tried getting AMD video drivers to work on linux?

Karanlos said,

That's why their games run with 20% more FPS using Ubuntu.....

a) Linux video drivers are technically more of ATI/NVidia wrapper technology that hooks into Linux than technically 'Linux Drivers'. Linux video driver support that hangs off an outdated framebuffer model isn't what you would call fast or even modern 15 years ago.

b) The reason they 'might' be getting 20% more performance out, is they are using the latest OpenGL 4.x version and optimized gaming engines for the 'performance features', and yet are still using DX9 with fairly mediocre engines.

They took the time to move their engines to the newer OpenGL frameworks, but for some reason didn't do the same for DirectX. Weird that they would do all that work, and not migrate the code for DirectX10/11.

The pinnacle of DX10,11,&11.1 is the core performance when running on unified shader based GPUs, which 99.999% of all modern GPUs are.

They also haven't been completely honest about their gaming benchmarks and how their Windows versions are still using older OpenGL version builds, when they are not passing off benchmarks of 2004 DX9 technology versus 2012 OpenGL 4.x technology.

(Modern GPUs with unified shaders, even with the amazing amount of power, are 'barely' faster than the last generation of dual VS/PS DX9 GPU technology. If you run 3DMark designed for DX9 on a newer GPU, you can see that DX9 code is far less efficient on a GPU architecture it was never designed to run on.)

thenetavenger said,
Something something

Yes I know AMD/Nvidia has to do wierd stuff to get their drivers to work nicely.
Now I highly doubt they use OpenGL 4.x.
I highly doubt they would go out and say: Hey we get 20% more fps with OpenGL + Linux when not using the equivalent.
The reason is simple. It's not because of threading overhead but because of Direct3D overhead.

Valve said,
... it comes down to a few additional microseconds overhead per batch in Direct3D which does not affect OpenGL on Windows.

Source: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

@awergh: Yes I have. Only thing i have to do is to make it executeable which is right click -> Properties and enabling it. Other than that smooth sailing.

Heh maybe I was a little unfair saying citation needed but I've pretty much never had AMD drivers work for me (even when my linux distro of choice was ubuntu).

nvidia drivers were no problem but AMD was no end of pain. I'd spend all my time trying to get drivers that worked properly (as in the correct resolution, refresh rate, acceleration works for videos, no flicker etc). It was just easier to boot into windows where drivers just install and work.

I'm pretty sure he is revering to the fact that DirectX 9.0c is super old and yet they are doing a comparrason to the current version of OpenGL instead of DirectX11

I'd rather pour water over a computer than install Windows 8 on it, but seriously, Linux? For years now I have been hearing about how it's on the verge of being a consumer breakthrough. It's never going to happen; at least not in my lifetime.

TheDogsBed said,
I'd rather pour water over a computer than install Windows 8 on it, but seriously, Linux? For years now I have been hearing about how it's on the verge of being a consumer breakthrough. It's never going to happen; at least not in my lifetime.

Gabe Newell is a joke.


but at the same time, Ubuntu is not nearly as polished as Windows 7 or Windows 8.

Nonsense. Compared to Windows 8's metro ui, Ubuntu is far more polished. It also has many more features than Windows. One only has to compare the Dash to Windows Search to realise that Ubuntu is light years ahead of Windows. Then there's the Ubuntu Software Centre, something Windows 7 will never have.

Corvini said,

Nonsense. Compared to Windows 8's metro ui, Ubuntu is far more polished. It also has many more features than Windows. One only has to compare the Dash to Windows Search to realise that Ubuntu is light years ahead of Windows. Then there's the Ubuntu Software Centre, something Windows 7 will never have.

Keep living under your moms basement... poor soul.

Give it a few years and Valve will be building Steam OS on top of a Linux distro.

I find it highly ironic that they're criticising Windows 8 for having it's own App store (a feature which is very alien-like for most Windows-exclusive users) and jumping straight into an OS platform (and distribution) which is HEAVILY tied with having an App store, to the point where its users get their apps almost solely from that, and that alone.

So basically, they're moving away from a platform where its user base hardly knows or users an app store to get their content, and into a platform where its user base uses app stores almost exclusively for their content.

In addition to this, Steam is also directly going to compete with the Ubuntu App Store in addition to the widely used git-hub repository.... I'd say Valve has a bigger chance of failure and competition in the Linux crowd then it does in the Windows 8 crowd.

they'll fall flat on their faces I for one cant wait that to happen.
I personally never buy steam due to its DRM bullsh*t and since most games come to GOG I wait and buy it from them.
No loss here Valve, please bugger off to linux and let something like GOG take over your place.

well good look getting loads of "gamers" to install linux.. More chance getting them to stick with Windows 7 tbh. Linux is unstable, always having to be updated, so many different forks of it you would need a lifetime to say them all.

Windows 8 is not bad they just need to suck it up and get on with it. I am a linux Fan BTW and i use it as my second OS. Still i can't see linux being a VALID option for the every day users.

Most my friends who game just pick games off shelf and want to install them on windows with all the other software they use. They would hate to have to duel boot linux and login to linux just to play a game then swap back to windows its just annoying as hell.

MrAnalysis said,

Still i can't see linux being a VALID option for the every day users.

Why not? I have Linux admins here who build Linux PCs for clients/friends and they say it works fine. Define "Every day user." It could be anyone who uses email, checks the Internet, IM's other, etc. I'd say it's pretty valid for them.

What I don't see is getting MS to allow opensource devs to pull from DirectX, otherwise if games could be ported over that actually work well, I wouldn't mind switching but that obviously won't happen, so I too enjoy my dual boot setup.

briangw said,

Why not? I have Linux admins here who build Linux PCs for clients/friends and they say it works fine. Define "Every day user." It could be anyone who uses email, checks the Internet, IM's other, etc. I'd say it's pretty valid for them.

What I don't see is getting MS to allow opensource devs to pull from DirectX, otherwise if games could be ported over that actually work well, I wouldn't mind switching but that obviously won't happen, so I too enjoy my dual boot setup.

It does not matter how u put it. I know linux is easy to use it has come leaps and bounds in the last few years. Ubuntu especially has done a grate job with making stuff more friendly. However sometimes on Linux even still today i find myself having to use the terminal and i think a fair few people would struggle with this.

It would not just mean changing the OS for some it would mean other things they use. For one a true gamer plays more than 1 game. I cant see anyone wanting to swap between OS just to play games they want them all in one place. Also its not just games its other things people are used to such as photoshop, fl studio etc etc. Yes you can emulate them but its not the same.

This will fail and it will fail hard. Unless overnight every developer of every popular APP, Game, etc etc changed to linux over night and OEMS offered full support with drivers.

Even then you would be hard pushed to get people to swap.

Look at windows 8 all they did was change the start menu.. Look at the fuss that has kicked up, people dont like change.

briangw said,
Why not? I have Linux admins here who build Linux PCs for clients/friends and they say it works fine. Define "Every day user." It could be anyone who uses email, checks the Internet, IM's other, etc. I'd say it's pretty valid for them..

Linux is interesting. For the normal stuff its quite easy, but as soon as you try to dive in you're hit with a brick wall.

briangw said,

Why not? I have Linux admins here who build Linux PCs for clients/friends and they say it works fine. Define "Every day user." It could be anyone who uses email, checks the Internet, IM's other, etc. I'd say it's pretty valid for them.

What I don't see is getting MS to allow opensource devs to pull from DirectX, otherwise if games could be ported over that actually work well, I wouldn't mind switching but that obviously won't happen, so I too enjoy my dual boot setup.


Yeah but I'm quite sure he gets quite the support calls/requests from those friends trying to open word documents they received from work, school, friends or family.
Or when they bought a game to entertain them a lil, and wonder why setup.exe isnt doing much, if anything.
Or (which is the case quite a bit with Ubuntu) when upgrading to a new release find out one of their drivers isnt working anymore.

And MS not sharing its designs in DirectX is all thanks to those kids at Silicon Graphics (iirc) that where developing OpenGL and refused help/improvements/advise from MS to improve their own product. Which especially then was a lose based modular system where game developers had to write their own modules for allot of basic functionality and then hope it was compatible with the system, OS and OpenGL version of the user.
MS wanted to help develop OpenGL and even keep it cross-OS.

Eventually OpenGL followed up on allot of those advises and idea's from MS, but by that time MS was already king of the hill with DirectX and ever since OpenGL has been lacking.
Either way we could've all gotten directx to be multi-platform, but your precious OpenSource community did not want it to be.

Shadowzz said,

Yeah but I'm quite sure he gets quite the support calls/requests from those friends trying to open word documents they received from work, school, friends or family.
Or when they bought a game to entertain them a lil, and wonder why setup.exe isnt doing much, if anything.
Or (which is the case quite a bit with Ubuntu) when upgrading to a new release find out one of their drivers isnt working anymore.

Nope, no support calls. We're talking absolutely new users or people who don't play games. And, remember that some drivers (ATI) play nicer with K(Ubuntu) more than others (Nvidia). They take all of this into consideration before suggesting Linux. Besides, how many people have you helped install Windows, only to turn around and provide Tech Support in the future? I've got a large family on both sides and I seem to spend more time removing malware than working to resolve an issue in Kubuntu on my laptop.

And what problems are there with opening Word documents from friends and family? LibreOffice works fine.

I just need Steam to hang around long enough for me to play all the games I've bought on sale. Otherwise, if they want to abandon their biggest market (which they won't because they aren't insane), someone else will fill in the gap.

Valve is really starting to **** me off. Nothing changes for them. Windows 8 is everything Windows 7 was and more. Windows is build for heavy duty work and Microsoft has made huge progress for PC gaming. They did a lot of the groundwork from which Valve now benefits.

Valve is showing fanboy behaviour that is not suited for a company, especially one of their size and importance. This makes their childish attitude even worse.

This makes me less and less likely to use steam. Don't **** off your customers valve or your going lose a lot of them.

Melfster said,
This makes me less and less likely to use steam. Don't **** off your customers valve or your going lose a lot of them.

I think they are their own worse enemy right now. They should spend more time embracing the platform instead of fighting it.

Melfster said,
This makes me less and less likely to use steam. Don't **** off your customers valve or your going lose a lot of them.

How the hell does this even affect you? Keep using steam on Windows. Tada.

it's just the demonising of the competition, nothing more, nothing less; don't think the actual argument deserves even a small amount of talk

I'm a linux user and certainly wouldn´t go as far as stating what he said, I hope he has the data to back it up. Sound more like a anger comment.

Dale said,
valve can preach linux all they want, i'm not switching..

learning awk/sed/grep and all the other man page utils over powershell would really suck.

LOL WHAT? Linux is better than Windows 8 which can already run ALL of Valve's games and anything on Steam? Yeah, sure. I don't understand why they're so scared of the Windows Store. AAA $60 games aren't going to be sold on there.

Good luck with Linux. Absolutely horrid for anything but servers.

n_K said,

I'm not even gonna bother putting effort into replying; retard.

He is talking about game servers, and while I disagree that Linux is 'horrid' he isn't that far off in terms of gaming. I doubt we will see too many AAA titles available for Linux on steam since Direct X is still heavily used by game developers.

n_K said,

I'm not even gonna bother putting effort into replying; retard.

Lets be honest, as far as the market is concerned he's right. And frankly, every person I know that loves Linux has a Windows machine for everything they can't do on Windows. I can't say that for all but a tiny fraction of a percent I know that run Windowsx as their primary OS.

Sartoris said,

He is talking about game servers, and while I disagree that Linux is 'horrid' he isn't that far off in terms of gaming. I doubt we will see too many AAA titles available for Linux on steam since Direct X is still heavily used by game developers.


Its very, very funny that people keep their hopes up so high that they think that Linux users are the kinds of people that like to pay for software or games when they're used to having everything for free. Maybe they'll buy steam games at first to show their 'dedication' and 'support'. But it'll die out really soon. There have been attempts before by major game publishers to distribute their games to Linux and it all quickly stopped.... history repeats.

Shadowzz said,

Its very, very funny that people keep their hopes up so high that they think that Linux users are the kinds of people that like to pay for software or games when they're used to having everything for free. Maybe they'll buy steam games at first to show their 'dedication' and 'support'. But it'll die out really soon. There have been attempts before by major game publishers to distribute their games to Linux and it all quickly stopped.... history repeats.

Really? Humble indie bundles doing well on linux. As did uplink and the other games introversion did. Maybe you want to actually want to read some real statistics first before commenting on something you really haven't got a clue about.
If linux is just free and open source why does RedHat make over £1b/year? Oh yeah, free stuff only because it's linux.... right....

n_K said,

Really? Humble indie bundles doing well on linux. As did uplink and the other games introversion did. Maybe you want to actually want to read some real statistics first before commenting on something you really haven't got a clue about.
If linux is just free and open source why does RedHat make over £1b/year? Oh yeah, free stuff only because it's linux.... right....

Yeah the 5 bucks a piece games, and compared to Windows how where the sales? on par or what?
doubt it.

If its such a marketable place to be for developers, then where the F are they? Thats such a nice thing about capitalism, if there's money to be made... someone will take advantage.
And Canonical is worthless and I wonder if they'll make it passed 2015. The only proper company behind a linux distro that has been profitable for 1-2 decades, is Red Hat. Pretty much all others went bankrupt.

And you're talking about the revenue of the company. And it isnt like 1 bill revenue is top of the line. Dont forget, they've been around for what... 2 decades now? being well known and are with Debian one of the few original linux Distro's still in use today and the base of hundreds of other distro's.
From the 910million USD total revenue, 780million USD was from subscriptions. I.E. Support.
I'm not saying there is no market for it. But Red Hat is not considered a consumer gaming distro anyways. So a bad example to begin with.

flexkeyboard said,
Correction: "Valve: Linux is more viable than Windows 8 for gaming for us."

Not Even! I guess he is butt hurt that Xbox Live is front a center in Windows 8.

nickcruz said,

Not Even! I guess he is butt hurt that Xbox Live is front a center in Windows 8.

By viable, he could mean more cross-platform. Use a more universal language instead of mainly DirectX.

flexkeyboard said,
Correction: "Valve: Linux is more viable than Windows 8 for gaming for us."

I don't see how that's true either.

farmeunit said,
By viable, he could mean more cross-platform. Use a more universal language instead of mainly DirectX.

Except OpenGL would be in the dark ages if Microsoft hadn't worked with hardware partners over the last 18 years to ensure that the hardware was up to the task of their DirectX vision.

OpenGL can be summed up as DirectX copycat for other OSes. Which explains why OpenGL runs inside a DirectX wrapper on Windows, thus hurting performance of any OpenGL game.

farmeunit said,

By viable, he could mean more cross-platform. Use a more universal language instead of mainly DirectX.

Ya, that would not be what he is talking about, unless he no longer understands video abstraction frameworks.

deadonthefloor said,

Except OpenGL would be in the dark ages if Microsoft hadn't worked with hardware partners over the last 18 years to ensure that the hardware was up to the task of their DirectX vision.

OpenGL can be summed up as DirectX copycat for other OSes. Which explains why OpenGL runs inside a DirectX wrapper on Windows, thus hurting performance of any OpenGL game.


This, before DirectX Microsoft even offered those dudes from OpenGL to help them write a proper cross-OS graphics layer. MS disliked the fact of a modular design they had and wanted the all-in-one package. Plus that the design of OpenGL was to outdated and was lacking some serious performance and power.
Those OpenGL dudes refused any help or support from MS and then MS decided they could do better and show it to them. And ever since DirectX has been a much better powerhouse for graphics then OpenGL ever could dare to dream off. Next to the fact that MS helped push GPU cards forward so incredibly much by investing in it on their own with their research labs and handing out very important IP for free nVidia or AMD would be dying to own themselfs.
If it was for OpenGL we'd still be more then 10 years behind on current graphics.
Especially since OpenGL was just recently able to surpass DirectX9 in performance and power. (a 11-12 year old design nonetheless)

I'm not sure how Windows 8 is going to change gaming. You still can run desktop apps, whether they come from the store or not, plus you got a whole new way to develop games.

dude valve seriously needs to get over this. this isn't about anything other than a perceived threat to their business.

jorel009 said,
dude valve seriously needs to get over this. this isn't about anything other than a perceived threat to their business.

Pretty much this.
I do hope the ms store becomes popular with games so that valve can just shut up about it. Newell is just being that fat kid again.

jorel009 said,
dude valve seriously needs to get over this. this isn't about anything other than a perceived threat to their business.

Eh, they clearly just suck at coding for Windows, otherwise they would've figured out how to allow swipe-to-scroll in the Steam client browser or any gesture other than TAP in Big Picture.

It isn't just the Windows ecosystem trends that worry them. Gabe has also been vocally opposed to touch as input, and it's evident in their code.

The man thinks tongue movements are a more viable method of input than touch. But what can you expect from a guy who clearly spends most of his time chewing.

jorel009 said,
dude

Dude, we all seriously know Microsoft employees are the ONLY ones who actually "like" Windows 8 and that all comments for it are BY Microsoft employees. You people aren't fooling anyone.

Anyone worth listening to already knows Microsoft isn't going to change.

Once Windows 9 comes out with Metro still staring everyone in the face the whole every-other-version everyone holds on to is going to come crashing down along with the Windows monopoly.

JAB Creations said,
Dude, we all seriously know Microsoft employees are the ONLY ones who actually "like" Windows 8 and that all comments for it are BY Microsoft employees.

Wow, remind me to call Microsoft and find out where my paychecks have been the past few decades.

jorel009 said,
dude valve seriously needs to get over this. this isn't about anything other than a perceived threat to their business.

agreed. I think it's just them playing chicken w/ msft over revenue sharing

JAB Creations said,

Dude, we all seriously know Microsoft employees are the ONLY ones who actually "like" Windows 8 and that all comments for it are BY Microsoft employees. You people aren't fooling anyone.

Anyone worth listening to already knows Microsoft isn't going to change.

Once Windows 9 comes out with Metro still staring everyone in the face the whole every-other-version everyone holds on to is going to come crashing down along with the Windows monopoly.


dude I am not a microsoft employee nor the windows 8 fan but I think linux is a mess and windows is superior in every aspect even a controversial OS like windows 8 is still better than top of the line linux ubuntu. don't get me wrong I like the idea of competition and I believe in it, but I believe a software or game developement company should support all platforms and such comments they only make an ars of themselves. period

JAB Creations said,

Dude, we all seriously know Microsoft employees are the ONLY ones who actually "like" Windows 8 and that all comments for it are BY Microsoft employees. You people aren't fooling anyone.

Anyone worth listening to already knows Microsoft isn't going to change.

Once Windows 9 comes out with Metro still staring everyone in the face the whole every-other-version everyone holds on to is going to come crashing down along with the Windows monopoly.

Not sure if sarcasm tags were forgotten or if poster actually is a moron... honestly.

jorel009 said,
dude valve seriously needs to get over this. this isn't about anything other than a perceived threat to their business.

Is it really? Steam distributes games. Games are desktop apps. The app store doesn't sell or distribute desktop apps, let alone offer the other wide array of features Steam offers. I don't see serious gaming moving into the metro realm.

aviator189 said,

Pretty much this.
I do hope the ms store becomes popular with games so that valve can just shut up about it. Newell is just being that fat kid again.

No more Steam sales?

You know MS won't have sales like that. They'll gouge you every chance they get.

farmeunit said,

No more Steam sales?

You know MS won't have sales like that. They'll gouge you every chance they get.


Honestly getting tired of Steam sales. Most of what I like that Steam carries winds up on GOG before you realize it. I'll pay the extra for not being tied to a client with roughly the code quality of Quicktime.

That, and if there's ever a DOSbox/ScummVM release for Metro, I'll be able to play my GOG classic games with minimal effort.

P.S. Microsoft isn't the one setting the app prices. Duh. Are you really forming conclusions based on empty assumptions? You could've just as easily asked an open question, like, "Hey, are there ever sale prices on Windows Phone apps?" But nope. You took the low road.

farmeunit said,

No more Steam sales?

You know MS won't have sales like that. They'll gouge you every chance they get.

They had sales on Games for Windows titles so I don't see why not.

Mikeffer said,

Not sure if sarcasm tags were forgotten or if poster actually is a moron... honestly.

He is a moron, trust me, all his comments spread the same sh*t.

nub said,
I don't see serious gaming moving into the metro realm.

Considering that the Unreal Engine is responsible for most of the top selling run and gun games of the last five years, on xbox360 and Windows, which runs on the Windows Runtime today, I would disagree.

Valve are anti-Windows8 for two reasons.
OpenGL
Steam

Anyone who thinks otherwise are fooling themselves.

Edited by deadonthefloor, Oct 30 2012, 12:33am :

S3P€hR said,

dude I am not a microsoft employee nor the windows 8 fan but I think linux is a mess and windows is superior in every aspect even a controversial OS like windows 8 is still better than top of the line linux ubuntu. don't get me wrong I like the idea of competition and I believe in it, but I believe a software or game developement company should support all platforms and such comments they only make an ars of themselves. period

I've used Ubuntu in 2010 for a 1-2 months and it almost never crashed, had memory leaks and all the other problems that EVERY Windows version has. The reason why Linux isn't popular is because it lacks support for the most important thing - hardware drivers. If Steam on Ubuntu is successful, this will urge companies like AMD, nVidia and Intel to make official drivers for Ubuntu, in in a couple of years, Ubuntu will have the potential to become more usable.

Last spring I bought a new motherboard for my computer, the technicians installed Windows 7 x64 and it ran fine for some months, then I noticed huge memory leaks on a fresh installs of both x86 and x64 of Windows 7, and now the only usable OS I can use on this computer is Windows XP, which is a shame, because if Ubuntu had better support, I'd use it and never go back to this ridiculous hypocritical crap called Windows.

Saex_Conroy said,
I've used Ubuntu in 2010 for a 1-2 months and it almost never crashed, had memory leaks and all the other problems that EVERY Windows version has.

Strange, I've not seen any of that.. last time Windows itself crashed for me was sometime in 2009 due to a buggy beta driver. Leaks? No. Much more likely something you're doing or running. If anything it's been crazy reliable.

I do agree on Linux's driver support though, it's pretty bad yet. My last experiment with Ubuntu 12.10 for example, yikes. Hated my video, the audio was iffy at best (sometimes there, sometimes not), the mouse (Cyborg RAT7) would literally make Unity non-responsive to any mouse events after the first click without f'ing around with X (and it's still a crapshoot), etc etc. 99.9% of the time that just doesn't happen in Windows, and that's not even touching the mess that is the software.

Saex_Conroy said,

I've used Ubuntu in 2010 for a 1-2 months and it almost never crashed, had memory leaks and all the other problems that EVERY Windows version has. The reason why Linux isn't popular is because it lacks support for the most important thing - hardware drivers. If Steam on Ubuntu is successful, this will urge companies like AMD, nVidia and Intel to make official drivers for Ubuntu, in in a couple of years, Ubuntu will have the potential to become more usable.

Last spring I bought a new motherboard for my computer, the technicians installed Windows 7 x64 and it ran fine for some months, then I noticed huge memory leaks on a fresh installs of both x86 and x64 of Windows 7, and now the only usable OS I can use on this computer is Windows XP, which is a shame, because if Ubuntu had better support, I'd use it and never go back to this ridiculous hypocritical crap called Windows.


AMD and nVidia have drivers for ubuntu, the problem is. Not only do they have to write the drivers, they have to add whole kernel modules and the entire driver layer that Windows takes care of for AMD/nVidia.
This is a very big problem, because kernel upgrades or other upgrades can break this easily. And they have to write everything from scratch for almost every GPU they own. This is why allot of lesser known GPU's often dont (or barely) work with their own drivers.
And in order for this to change, for AMD and nVidia to actually change their focus towards Linux... Linux's own kernel has to be redesigned, and this aint ever going to happen.

Saex_Conroy said,

I've used Ubuntu in 2010 for a 1-2 months and it almost never crashed, had memory leaks and all the other problems that EVERY Windows version has. The reason why Linux isn't popular is because it lacks support for the most important thing - hardware drivers. If Steam on Ubuntu is successful, this will urge companies like AMD, nVidia and Intel to make official drivers for Ubuntu, in in a couple of years, Ubuntu will have the potential to become more usable.

Last spring I bought a new motherboard for my computer, the technicians installed Windows 7 x64 and it ran fine for some months, then I noticed huge memory leaks on a fresh installs of both x86 and x64 of Windows 7, and now the only usable OS I can use on this computer is Windows XP, which is a shame, because if Ubuntu had better support, I'd use it and never go back to this ridiculous hypocritical crap called Windows.

The only good Linux OS is Cent OS and that is for servers. due to highly customizing and more importantly free Licencing. The linux hosting has been Linux strenght for ever. surprisingly statistics shows that the demand of Windows Server has been rising for the past couple of years so i believe Windows is beating Linux in every dimension now. . I don't think Linux gonna go away but they have to come up with something better. From this side Windows 8 admittedly was a hiccup which they probably fix it for next version but on the other hand Azur and Microsoft Cloud services are starring.