Vista 'Trick' Theorist Defends Loophole Claims

The Windows expert who originally speculated that Microsoft deliberately included a 'trick' in Windows Vista that lets users install the OS from the upgrade version on Wednesday defended his position. Earlier this month, the Windows Secrets newsletter reiterated claims it made last year that Microsoft is aware that users can clean install the fully functional, but cheaper upgrade edition of Vista on any machine, but doesn't want to actually stop them.

Microsoft denied this, and last week, Eric Ligman, Microsoft's senior manager of community engagement for small business in the U.S., railed against unnamed sources he accused of spreading misinformation and promoting software piracy. But Brian Livingston, editorial director of WindowsSecrets.com, doesn't think that speculating on the reasons why Microsoft included the loophole in Vista, and why Microsoft didn't eliminate it in Vista SP1, is tantamount to supporting illegal behavior.

"No one is encouraging people to try to 'rip off' Windows for zero dollars," Livingston said. "One or two people might buy Vista without having any prior copy of Windows, but that would be a fraction of the people who are using this documented feature."

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just a reminder..

if you are thinking about doing this upgrade crap ?
consider wether you wanna destroy your previous os license !

when you upgrade you disable your previous key
and then when you realize that Vista sucks and you wanna
put xp or whatever back in.. you cant your screwed and your key is useless.

lol @ M$

I could have sworn that back in the days of 98/XP this was a "feature" given to the dedicated users who continued to purchase Microsoft products.

I guess when time changes so do the opinionated views of the people who run companies.

The trick? i assume they either mean installing without a product key, and entering it in later..... or installing clean, then installing an upgrade on top of it....... which is by no means a CLEAN install......

Is there another way to install vista thats "Cheating?"

*edit- nevermind, i found the "other" way

They'll just have to include another check as part of their WGA validation... every time you register the update version you need your previous product's key for verification. Not that difficult.

"One or two people might buy Vista without having any prior copy of Windows, but that would be a fraction of the people who are using this documented feature."

Newsflash! That doesn't make it right!

Even if the loophole was "disabled", you'd still be able to perform a clean install right? It should be a matter of licenses and not a matter of installations, in my opinion. Upgrade edition or not, a "clean install" is still a (very useful) feature that "upgraders" shouldn't be deprived of.

Besides how many people are actually doing this? IMO buying a boxed edition of vista means two things:
1- upgrading a computer, which most likely already has XP, which most likely came with the computer, which constitutes a valid license. No "Loophole" there.
2- installing it on a new computer , which would make no economical sense since you could get the OEM version instead.

Actaully no, not with Vista...Someone at Microsoft decided that supplying a CD and having it run a check is no longer sufficient. The upgrade checks the HDD only now, if it isn't installed you have to install your old OS or use the trick.

quite the PITA.

(Julius Caro said @ #1)
2- installing it on a new computer , which would make no economical sense since you could get the OEM version instead.

That may be true for Vista, but as for Windows Seven, I hear they're planning on changing OEM rules so that only real OEMs can buy OEM licensed copies of windows, and not just Joe Shmoe home user who knows how to read forums.... Now all u need to do is buy a piece of cheap hardware with it (don't know how they consider a person who buys 5 dollars worth of hardware an "Original Equipment Manufacturer....") Just dont count on this other "loophole" working for the next windows release.

(ispamforfood said @ #1.2)
That may be true for Vista, but as for Windows Seven, I hear they're planning on changing OEM rules so that only real OEMs can buy OEM licensed copies of windows, and not just Joe Shmoe home user who knows how to read forums.... Now all u need to do is buy a piece of cheap hardware with it (don't know how they consider a person who buys 5 dollars worth of hardware an "Original Equipment Manufacturer....") Just dont count on this other "loophole" working for the next windows release.

yikes, I hope not. Buying OEM "versions" of Windows essentially means you are buying the software, not the support. I don't need Microsoft's support, and I have liked how I can opt out of paying for it. Hopefully that doesn't change.