Why pirated Vista has Microsoft champing at the BitTorrent

As Microsoft Corp. gets ready to launch Windows Vista and Office 2007 to consumers, it claims a formidable new foe it lacked at its last major consumer software launch five years ago: the popular filesharing network known as BitTorrent. This third-generation peer-to-peer (P2P) service, already used by tens of millions of Internet users to swap digital music and movies for free, is becoming a popular mechanism for those looking to obtain pirated software. "Any software that is commercially available is available on BitTorrent," according to Mark Ishikawa, CEO of BayTSP Inc., a Los Gatos, Calif., antipiracy consulting firm.

Or in the case of Vista and Office 2007, before they were commercially available. Both products were released to corporations almost two months ago, but won't be officially launched to consumers until Jan. 29. But as early as mid-November, "cracked" copies of both products were available via BitTorrent. As of mid-January, more than 100 individual copies of Office 2007 and more than 350 individual copies of Windows Vista were available on the service, according to BigChampagne LLC, a Los Angeles-based online media-tracking firm. The pirates that cracked early copies of Vista all sidestepped Microsoft's latest antipiracy technology, the Software Protection Platform. SPP is supposed to shut down any copy of Vista not registered to Microsoft over the Internet with a legitimate, paid-up license key within the first 30 days.

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Yeah well im sure like many other software companies microsoft couldn't reallly give a damn how many people manage to surcumvent the programing to crack it, due to the fact tht everytime a new windows comes out it is always "SECURE" to a point. microsoft like to appear to be doing something about the problem but without hackers there wudn't be much need for micrisoft to release new versions of windows as regualarly as it does except for when the hardware demands it, however microsoft are in the position of demanding hardware to change as we have all seen in the past few years a huge leap in processor technology and gpu's which all seem to run soo well under xp. And now to our surprise we see microsoft windows vista being the only os to support directx10 and as a result forcing gpu manufaturers to push into dx10 technology cards, namely nvidia's 8800. So you could actually say that due to these hackers and crackers out there they are all helping to push down te price of new technology in the future but at the same time making microsoft much much richer than they wud be if they released a stable and secure os. WOT A SURPRISE THIS IS. WE R ALL BEING ROBBED BY MS.

Why don't they hire a whole lot of crackers they way security hardware/software makers hire hackers? They could extract as much opinion as possible from the crackers about every single possible way windows can be cracked, and then fill in all those holes with the given knowledge?

i'm sure that with all the money and effots microsoft is spending to fight piracy they've hired some crackers to help. but of course, they cannot hire EVERY cracker. that's why whatever they do, there will be someone who can solve it.

I love how Vista is locked to the pc. You can never use your os on another system. You have to buy a new copy. WTF is up with that? People rebuild there system all the time and im not buying a new os every time.

I did receive my free business edition a few days ago courtesy of ms. :)

But i will have to use a crack if i upgrade my system. Thx MS i guess....

well that's not exactly how it works. if you make major updates to your system you just have to call microsoft and they will let you use the key on your pc without problems.

Mekun said,
I love how Vista is locked to the pc. You can never use your os on another system. You have to buy a new copy. WTF is up with that? People rebuild there system all the time and im not buying a new os every time.

I did receive my free business edition a few days ago courtesy of ms. :)

But i will have to use a crack if i upgrade my system. Thx MS i guess....

How often do you change your CPU, GPU and Hardrive? You have 10 activations before you'll have to phone microsoft and ask them to reactivate it for you.

Microsoft is trying to stop piracy altogether but obviously they even know they can't stop the hacking groups. However, WGA is an awesome way to stop the average user who used to borrow a CD and a code.

About BT, the average user doesn't know about BitTorrent. On top of that, I know people who are good with computers who are scared to use BT because it's not like normal P2P.

Hey, Microsoft, here's an idea:


Try charging CONSUMER PRICES for your OS if it's a CONSUMER buying it!

Anything over $150 is RIDICULOUS for an OS being used by a home user.

Then, the piracy will DECREASE because people will actually be able to AFFORD IT.

One can get an OEM version of XP now for around $110 or so online. That is somewhat reasonable.

$250 is NOT.


Eh piracy probably would not decrease much, people still pirate regular old XP and it is as you say "somewhat reasonable" People pirate stuff because they can

Axess1968 said,
Hey, Microsoft, here's an idea:


Try charging CONSUMER PRICES for your OS if it's a CONSUMER buying it!

Anything over $150 is RIDICULOUS for an OS being used by a home user.

Then, the piracy will DECREASE because people will actually be able to AFFORD IT.

One can get an OEM version of XP now for around $110 or so online. That is somewhat reasonable.

$250 is NOT.

Yes 250usd for an OS that will last you 5 years or more is so ridiculously expensive yeh?

I don't get why so many people download pirated stuff from Bittorent and risk being tracked or traced. There are lots of other better ways to "acquire" software that is much more anonymous. :suspicious:

ahhell said,
I don't get why so many people download pirated stuff from Bittorent and risk being tracked or traced. There are lots of other better ways to "acquire" software that is much more anonymous. :suspicious:

considering most if not all torrent traffic is encrypted (depending on the client you use) i fail to see hows its such a big risk

Fubar said,

considering most if not all torrent traffic is encrypted (depending on the client you use) i fail to see hows its such a big risk :s

Torrent traffic is not encrypted. There are some systems that add encryption to the packets, but that doesn't stop there being the same main server that lists everyone who is downloading it's IP address.

I guess the reason people do it is because they haven't seen any reason not to. As far as I know, nobody has done anything about software piracy (e.g. suing).

eAi said,
Torrent traffic is not encrypted. There are some systems that add encryption to the packets, but that doesn't stop there being the same main server that lists everyone who is downloading it's IP address.

I guess the reason people do it is because they haven't seen any reason not to. As far as I know, nobody has done anything about software piracy (e.g. suing).


that's funny because utorrent allows me to use encryption , guess there lying , plus there is no main server for torrents , its a serverless protocol so it really do show how much you know , i suppose your on about the trackers ? if thats the case thats where private trackers come into their own , like i said before torrent if done right has no risk

Fubar said,


that's funny because utorrent allows me to use encryption , guess there lying


Depends which tracker you're using; and which client, as well. Some trackers don't implement encryption, and some clients have encryption implemented better than others. It's an evolving field right now.

No bittorrent client uses true encryption, only the packet header is encrypted and it's done so to fool ISP's who throttle BT traffic, it has nothing to do with encrypting what you download and like somebody else said it's very easy to get your ip address from BT and see what your downloading/uploading, so even if it used encryption, it wouldn't make any diffrence.

Make Windows Vista and Office 20007 affordable so everyone has a legal copy. As of now the price is too steep for an OS while most of us are quiet happy with proven XP. Consumers need a valid reason to switch over to Vista. Despite the cost of building Vista I would not consider its worth more than a $100 for the full CD. Every other person associated with Microsoft is a millionaire, they can certainly afford to sell it for less.

again activation, wga its not a good measure to combat piracy, pirates always get away with it, while legit users suffers from false positive and annoyance

I kind of look at all this WGA garbage like I do with gun laws.
The more laws they make for guns, just makes it harder for people who respect
the law to obtain a gun. The crooks don't care how many laws you pass, they
will still obtain a gun illegally. WGA is the same thing. It just makes it harder
(when it doesn't work) for legit people to use their software.
I know MS can price their software any way they want, because "realistically"
they have the entire OS market locked up, but, if they reduced the price,
there would be a lot more legit versions than illegal versions.

The if-they'd-just-reduce-the-price argument has been around for a while, and I'm starting to have my doubts about it.

Has anyone actually sat down with the numbers? Estimated percentage of users who have pirated copies, estimations of how many would buy if the price was lowered to specific points, and what the ideal price would be to maximize profit and minimize piracy...

The figure might actually be what the cost is now. Lowering it to half the price would never make sense. There aren't that many pirates out there to convert to make up the profit loss. 3/4 the price? 5/6 the price?

Maybe Windows isn't really ripping us off at all. *shrug*

Joshie said,
Maybe Windows isn't really ripping us off at all. *shrug*

Maybe many would love a Windows without Internet Explorer, Messenger, Movie Maker, Windows Media Player, Outlook Express, Windows Mail, File Explorer with full retail web browser functionality etc for half the amount they charge?

But nooo a monopoly strenghtening bundle is very important to them. Think if we had to buy the web browser and movie player separately, suddenly people might actually have a choice. Ohh.. i think i'll have PowerDVD XP and Firefox!

Pirate Windows all you want for all I care.

GamblerFEXonlin said,

Maybe many would love a Windows without Internet Explorer, Messenger, Movie Maker, Windows Media Player, Outlook Express, Windows Mail, File Explorer with full retail web browser functionality etc for half the amount they charge?

But nooo a monopoly strenghtening bundle is very important to them. Think if we had to buy the web browser and movie player separately, suddenly people might actually have a choice. Ohh.. i think i'll have PowerDVD XP and Firefox!

Pirate Windows all you want for all I care.

Yeah. And it'd be the only OS on the market that doesn't come standard with those features. Dude the web browser/file explorer merging is so permanent there's no going back. Even KDE does it. Taking a media player out is equally stupid. Windows has bundled a media player since the 16-bit days. And nobody cares about them bundling a mail client since the only decent quality competition is the full version of Outlook--their own product! People can insist Thunderbird is competition all they want--it really, really isn't. The full retail version of Outlook is by faaaaaar the best e-mail client of all e-mail clients ever to exist on the Windows platform.

But more importantly, here's why your response is silly: your list. Internet Explorer and File Explorer with web browser functionality--dude, you only have to list it once. Outlook Express and Windows Mail? The latter is just the new version of the former! List it once, already! Cross out Windows Media Player because it's just the modern equivalent of the same media player that's been there since Win3.x (or earlier, heck if I know--3.11 is the first Windows I ever used), and here's your actual list of things you want removed:

1) Web browser
2) Movie maker
3) Email client
4) Messenger

That's only four features. Here's why removing them won't make any sort of dent in the price whatsoever: the competition for those features are all free. Firefox/Opera? Free. Thunderbird? Free. AIM/Yahoo/Google? Free. You can't expect a price reduction by removing free components. The only thing with any commercial competition is the movie maker, but since it's geared toward the average home user who wants to convert something they made with a digital camera...and that's something that probably CAME with a free version of video editing software...the 'official' competition....is still free!

I suppose you walk into fast food restaurants and demand they charge you less because you don't want lettuce, tomato, and mayo like other people get. You aren't asking for the extras, so you should get it for half the price! Lord...

I think the WGA stuff and all the stuff microsoft is doing is for the average joe. I know with Windows XP, 2000, 98 and before all this WGA stuff was happening. If you need a copy of windows all you did was make a copy and get the cd key and you are done. Easy! Or if a friend called and said hey I have windows ME on my computer can you install xp for me, easy right? Now with the new activation and all that stuff its harder for the average person to learn about the WGA crack and how the activation server works so what do they do. Go buy the software.

just my 2 cents

Don't you just love it when just the moment microsoft thinks they have come up with a solution to all the pirating copyright infringements etc , People on my team who come online casually and crack there programs they've marketed at high prices ? There in it for the profit, We are in it to provide software for those who want to excel themselves to new heights, But can't due to having a low income. ENJOY

Playing around with $1000 software like Lightwave 3D, Maya, Adobe Photoshop and Premiere sure is fun. Piracy makes the PC platform that much fun, but I'm worried with this P2P it may be back firing with online activation and driver-level copy protection. I wonder if they really sell less these days, or if they just say "oh we expect that much more buys this year as there are that much more PC's out there."

the fact remains... what ever is created.... someone... somewhere will find away around it... like Sony and their blue coated disc... that was ment to be some fancy piracy thingo... didn't last long... MS have their Glued up 360 chip... thats still holding... kinda... Someones going to loophole anything regardless...

Yeah, it was cracked and we all know that. The was crack with some files, with date and of course people even have Windows Activation Server. So you don't need to use Microsoft's. Just set up server, install Vista with special CD-KEY and activate using your own Activation Server. Or you can find China servers online.

Yup to Ravensworth. I remember learning this word. It's one of those oddities of...American english? Is it exclusive to us? We say stomp too, and I believe it's actually stamp.

I have no idea how the change in pronunciation came about.

TRC said,

Did anyone say there was?


Considering that this is a play on the phrase "champing at the bit" the word is therefore champing. Chomping implies eating something (c.f. chowing [down]), champing implies frustration.

While eventually pirated vista will be on BT.... has anyone checked lately? all the previous "retail" vista versions that were on BT are gone, you can only find RC2 and RC1 now which means... that in someway MS are achieving some progress

Beastage said,
While eventually pirated vista will be on BT.... has anyone checked lately? all the previous "retail" vista versions that were on BT are gone, you can only find RC2 and RC1 now which means... that in someway MS are achieving some progress

i suppose it depends what private trackers your on and if them trackers are linked with "The Scene" heh

Neomac v6 said,
Another reason Apple probably won't license OS X.

..which was cracked to run on non-Apple hardware. Anyway, back on topic eh?

Neomac v6 said,
True, though if OS X were licensed, the piracy would move beyond the small band of enthusiasts.

Probably not, linux is free and yet..

Neomac v6 said,
True, though if OS X were licensed, the piracy would move beyond the small band of enthusiasts.
I don't think so. An ISO image of OS X is relatively easy to find (no harder than Vista), so if people really wanted to run a toy OS as their main OS, there would be nothing stopping them.

Maybe instead of making pain in the ass programs, it would be better using a hard media key? For instance, some sort of USB stick that matches only to the Vista DVD purchased, and must be inserted before installing Vista. That way, if they've got the DVD and serial, they'll still need that one specific USB stick physically inserted. Otherwise, not even allow the installation to take place.

Of course, it may hinder the whole "Get it online!" but may really improve piracy of the product.

You mean like a hardware dongle that is required to be plugged into the PC for Vista to function? That has been done before and hackers found a way to emulate the dongle or remove the need for it entirely (so the company doing it dropped that idea and did something else). Plus I believe Apple do a similar thing with having OSX requiring a special chip or something to function, that was cracked too...so I don't think something like that would work any better, as the saying goes, "what can be made by man, can be unmade by man" (or something similar)

Yes, to hackers, dongles are just either emulated, or they simply bypass the dongle check routine altogether and always have it report that it's inserted. The major problem with dongles is that you move the security to the local user. Once it's in the hands of the local user, it's also in the hands of a software crack.

All client-side security is at large risk of being hacked, and e.g. Autodesk abandoned this security measure a while ago. They now use license servers for the validation. They can of course also be hacked much like a Windows Vista KMS server can, but it's at least no less of security than a dongle is, and cost far less money for Autodesk to produce than a dongle, where actual hardware costs start getting involved.

sorry But Ms Will never win the battle , people crack it for fun these days , all this WGA malarky is nothing but a pain in the ass for those who buy it legit , the crackers by pass it , hell i know of one xp and vista releases on torrents that have no WGA what so ever , to me it just seems like MS poured alot of money into it and its not been effective at all

If "winning the battle" is about "reducing piracy to zero", I agree about that, but I think MS is mostly interested in trying to reduce piracy a bit, at this point.

Well of course they can't completely stop piracy, but they can really make life difficult for pirates by breaking cracks and blacklisting pirated keys through Windows updates. That can make a huge difference, especially with average people that aren't computer experts.

Chugworth said,
Well of course they can't completely stop piracy, but they can really make life difficult for pirates by breaking cracks and blacklisting pirated keys through Windows updates. That can make a huge difference, especially with average people that aren't computer experts.

How the **** is WGA a pain when you almost never ever see it?

WGA is a pain when it doesn't work, and WPA is a pain when you have to call up because it doesn't work. I know people using a corporate VLK XP warez version because they've had enough problems. so there.