"Wind" might be the Windows 8 UI

Little information has been revealed about Windows 8 thus far, but we do know that Microsoft is planning on taking Windows 8 to the cloud and turning the desktop as we know it into a service (DaaS).

Winrumors, via windows8italia.com, uncovered that the Windows 8 user interface codename might be "Wind." The desktop will be available in both 32bit and 64bit editions, but with one major difference: the desktop. It's said that the 64bit version will have a full 3D desktop, taking Windows into the next generation. It's not known what the desktop will look like exactly, but it might be very similar to that of Windows 7, just in 3D.

Only high-end notebook and desktop PCs with dedicated memory cards will be able to power the 3D desktop. "Wind" will require users to have 170MB of video memory to run it, and will only operate on 64bit machines.

The site goes on to say that Windows 8 will be able to adapt to the users habits, customizing your desktop for you, showing shortcuts and icons for different scenarios, or possibly different users. Windows 8 will also have an improved hibernation mode, which can put your computer into sleep mode within three to six seconds. With manufacturers working hard on instant-on technology and a total overhaul to your BIOS, we could see Windows powering on and off within a few seconds.

As with all rumours and speculation, take this with a pinch of salt. Steve Ballmer was reported saying that Windows 8 will be "risky," which gives us some clues that Microsoft is looking for a major advancement in their operating system, hoping their gamble will payoff.

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Nice article, although I have thought of something... Nobody wants to see a 3D BSOD or Windows has encountered a problem and needs to close. All your work will be lost and you cannot recover your lost work.

Depressing

Dam somebody beat me to the question...

No thanks, I think I'll stick to my clean, usable basic interface. How about revamping that so it works properly using GPU acceleration?

Ah yes. First Aero, now "wind". Maybe Apple might turn Aqua into "water" for Mac OS X Lion. Now that would be something!

.Neo said,
Ah yes. First Aero, now "wind". Maybe Apple might turn Aqua into "water" for Mac OS X Lion. Now that would be something!
Now wouldn't that be magical

This is gonna sound "paranoid" but one thing that scares me about "clouds" is this scenario..

one small "emp" kaboom around these data storage centers & we can kiss our data bye bye...

PacificAk said,
This is gonna sound "paranoid" but one thing that scares me about "clouds" is this scenario..

one small "emp" kaboom around these data storage centers & we can kiss our data bye bye...

Yes, but if Microsoft did do the whole cloud thing, it'll optional. If you don't want to put data on there, then don't.

Hopefully the new UI will be awesome, I love apples design, so a bit more like theirs. I love windows and I doubt I will ever change my mind

what would be F'IN awesome... is if they actually made an eye poppin 3D desktop (no glasses required, simply a 3D monitor like the one featured at Intel technologies booth)

The desktop would pop out, and you could actually tough the popouts with the help of Kinect detecting that you're touching them. Of course it may not be practical for everyone, but it would be a lot of fun to play around with. Might even open up doors for the future.

tele-fragd said,
I really hope they decide to cancel 32bit support in future.

On the desktop, I agree it will be nice to see it go away eventually, but it may not happen in Win8, as there are still a lot of 32bit CPUs sold in the past 5 or 6 years even.

As for long term, it probably won't disappear as long as low powered CPU designs are still being used low power devices. However, here we should only see Windows Embedded exist and possibly stopping at the Win7 or Win8 generation of the NT tree. (Intel hasn't given up up on the markets currently dominated by ARM, Qualcom, etc, even if these are relegated to devcies like you find Windows Embedded now, running appliances and routers, etc. (Also look for WinCE and WinNT to merge in the near future, as a light version of NT is not far off in performance from WinCE, even with the additional Object OS model overhead.)

tele-fragd said,
I really hope they decide to cancel 32bit support in future.

I thought I heard something about that Windows 7 will be the last 32bit Windows.

zombieChan said,

I thought I heard something about that Windows 7 will be the last 32bit Windows.

That's what i'd heard as well.

If you look at Vista it was released as 32-bit in the box, 64-bit available on request (unless you bought the Ultimate edition). Windows 7 has both 32 and 64-bit in the box. So it looks as though Windows 8 will be 64-bit in the box, 32-bit available on request. Windows 9 (I know, it's a bit far ahead) should be 64-bit only with no 32-bit version available.

thenetavenger said,

On the desktop, I agree it will be nice to see it go away eventually, but it may not happen in Win8, as there are still a lot of 32bit CPUs sold in the past 5 or 6 years even.

As for long term, it probably won't disappear as long as low powered CPU designs are still being used low power devices. However, here we should only see Windows Embedded exist and possibly stopping at the Win7 or Win8 generation of the NT tree. (Intel hasn't given up up on the markets currently dominated by ARM, Qualcom, etc, even if these are relegated to devcies like you find Windows Embedded now, running appliances and routers, etc. (Also look for WinCE and WinNT to merge in the near future, as a light version of NT is not far off in performance from WinCE, even with the additional Object OS model overhead.)

Windows CE is *based* on NT (specifically, NT4) - however, it's been largely replaced with either Windows Mobile or Windows Embedded (which is XP-based) These areas (and netbooks) are the last remaining spaces where 32-bit operating systems still reign supreme - and with valid reason. x64 versions of Atom are shipping today; however, this is the only truly x64 processor being used in true netbooks. You have devices similar in size to the larger netbooks (14-inch and 15-inch screens), but with mobile versions of standard processors from Intel and AMD inside (I call these netbook-sized budget flamethrowers "power netbooks" because of that formfactor). All of these come with x64 CPUs (as that is all both AMD and Intel are shipping in this category, and that's been the case since 2007) and most include Vista x64 Home Premium at minimum (newer models include 7 Home Premium x64 and up). Their prices are not high (typically, in the $500-$700USD range) - however, their performance is atypical of netbooks (what's usually found in that formfactor and price range - in fact, some of these power netbooks are cheaper than regular netbooks in the same formfactor). That's part of the commoditization/ubiquitization factor I referred to in an earlier post - power gets affordable.

Cloud computing? The idea behind it is old - quite old. In fact, it predates Windows. It's client/server computing (replace the LAN with the Internet/intranet/VPN) and make it seamless. However, there are three major roadblocks to cloud ubiquity.

1. Clouds are not immune to a desire for lock-in.
As much as even the open-source community loathes the idea, clouds (and especially publicly-accessible clouds) cost serious money to run (not so much in server hardware or even software but things like peering agreements with connectivity providers, electricity and other utilities, etc.). That means outside investors, and that ALSO means investor desire, if not outright demand, for a reasonable (to them) rate of return/ROI. Right now, the only way to keep would-be clients from walking away is to require a specific access method for each cloud. That is lock-in. While investors love it, clients (all clients) understandably loathe it. Microsoft is whacked for not making clouds using their software accessible to Linux/other FOSS clients - the same is true (in reverse) for FOSS-based clouds (including Amazon EC2) Both are therefore equally guilty - and both did it out of revenue concerns. Understandable - however, that doesn't let them escape a whipping, either.

2. "What if..." The FUD factor must now include everything from terrorism to government action (including warrantless or warranted snooping into clouds). And in case you have forgotten, the United States is a relative pussycat at such electronic skullduggery (even with the NSA on tap) regarding its own citizens (or foreign citizens in the US); the Arab nations, India - even France and the UK - are far less respecting of privacy rights in that area, especially of the non-native. (The UK is less unwilling to turn their electronic noses loose on even native Britons in the UK than the US is on native Americans in the US - in fact, in most cases, they don't even need a warrant.) That was the very issue that was driving BlackBerry users outside the US barmy all year - so much so, that it affected stock prices of RIM itself.

3. Bandwidth costs (customer end). As long as bandwidth costs (what it costs the customer to access the cloud or anything else) remain relatively high, it roadblocks what can be done with cloud-sourced data of any sort.

Rumors! on the front page? Seriously?

All this Win 8 this...Win 8 that! Jesus its all rumors. Stop posting the rumors and post some facts from Microsoft when they decide to let us know for gods sakes.

Well, allow me to "break wind" then, because it's way too early to assume anything. Why is it front page news? Running out of things to talk about during the holiday season? They're rumors for **** sakes.

I can't believe this on the front page it's so ridiculous the claims they are making ... o wait isn't win rumours run by an ex neowinian ...

Microsoft is too big to be risky on what is their "bread and butter." Too many administrative levels of arse covering.

betasp said,
Microsoft is too big to be risky on what is their "bread and butter." Too many administrative levels of arse covering.

well those risky steps are what shapes the comany, or destroys it hahaha

Matt Hardwick said,
One thing that people seem to be missing/ignoring about Windows 8 is the App-V client as standard for pre-package style deployment/distribution of applications.

App who? Wut dat?

Pharos said,

App who? Wut dat?

Per-application virtualization (each application runs basically in its own VM) - the closest thing today is containerization in Solaris; however, it's basically next-level virtualization.

I think apple is already ahead on this 3D stuff.. They just recently made a patent on it. So probably their next 'revolutionary' piece will involve iOS and a 3D display.

Mocosoft said,
I think apple is already ahead on this 3D stuff.. They just recently made a patent on it. So probably their next 'revolutionary' piece will involve iOS and a 3D display.

What Apple 3D stuff? They don't even have their own 3D API or platform.

Even OS X uses a 2D rendered desktop composer, that only uses 3D features of the GPU for very limited double buffer drawing of textures to simple flat surfaces. Even the Core Animation technologies are not 3D or 3D GPU based, and instead use SSE because of the inconsistency in GPU power in various Macs.

OS X has no GPU mangement in the OS, so any increased 3D rendering on the desktop would be a problem, as it would become unresponsive due to application level yielding that the primary UI would depend on when other GPU intensive applications are running. This is not just about OpenGL's yielding model either, as OS X's architecture is incapable of GPU scheduling or even simple VRAM management, and is also a key to the intrinsic problems with async GPU operations, including OpenC computing hampering other GPU operations instead of them being fluidly scheduled by the OS.

(Go look up Windows WDDM - there is a reason Windows can do things with regard to 3D that OS X, Linux, and most other OSes simply can not do.)

Mocosoft said,
I think apple is already ahead on this 3D stuff.. They just recently made a patent on it. So probably their next 'revolutionary' piece will involve iOS and a 3D display.

The sad thing is that MS has always been light years ahead in GUI implementation but never moved the brilliant concepts MS Research Department presented in a real product. Check "Vision 2019", Longhorn etc. etc.

Fritzly said,

The sad thing is that MS has always been light years ahead in GUI implementation but never moved the brilliant concepts MS Research Department presented in a real product. Check "Vision 2019", Longhorn etc. etc.

That's because if they did, both the hardware vendors (especially the PC prepackagers, such as DELL, Siemens-Nixdorf, HP, etc.) *and* a lot of users (we Neowinians are the exception, not the rule) would freak.

One reason Windows is growing as much as it is (and to Windows 7's benefit) is the ubquitization and commoditization of IT, not to mention that Windows 7 (even Ultimate x64, the highest of SKUs) runs on incredibly *budget* hardware, for the most part. Similar rumors were floating around about Windows Vista back in the Longhorn days - though neither Longhorn (or Vista itself, for the most part) did NOT require uber-hardware, those same rumors led to Vista's basic failure-to-launch (in Windows terms). I wonder what the real reason is for such rabid rumourmongering.

PGHammer said,

That's because if they did, both the hardware vendors (especially the PC prepackagers, such as DELL, Siemens-Nixdorf, HP, etc.) *and* a lot of users (we Neowinians are the exception, not the rule) would freak.

One reason Windows is growing as much as it is (and to Windows 7's benefit) is the ubquitization and commoditization of IT, not to mention that Windows 7 (even Ultimate x64, the highest of SKUs) runs on incredibly *budget* hardware, for the most part. Similar rumors were floating around about Windows Vista back in the Longhorn days - though neither Longhorn (or Vista itself, for the most part) did NOT require uber-hardware, those same rumors led to Vista's basic failure-to-launch (in Windows terms). I wonder what the real reason is for such rabid rumourmongering.


well put, MS's R&D is mostly many years ahead with their idea's and plans.
Microsoft has been pushing vendors for countless years now, they attempted to push in 64bit before releasing windows XP, but failed doing so, so microsoft was forced to rewrite windows almost from scratch to make it 32bit. And i had a very decent machine when longhorn came to view, but because of the desktop effects and heavy stuff, it ran very...very slowly on my machine, and it was a mid-high end machine >.> it wouldnt work as most computers arent high end that could run it anything close to smooth.
Next to that, they have had a fully 3d desktop for windows in R&D for many years now, with complete touch and all the mumbo jumbo people find fancy and attractive to look at. Microsoft just advances slowly because of the vast majority of vendors and users, will not be able to keep up.

One thing that people seem to be missing/ignoring about Windows 8 is the App-V client as standard for pre-package style deployment/distribution of applications.

Matt Hardwick said,
One thing that people seem to be missing/ignoring about Windows 8 is the App-V client as standard for pre-package style deployment/distribution of applications.

nothing new, both apple and linux have had this for years.
windows has had it since vista too, but noone seemed to care either.

It'd be nice if MS did start taking risks. They had some interesting desktop effects going on in the early Longhorn days. Sure it's only eye candy, but some of us wouldn't mind the option of having it to turn on.

protocol7 said,
It'd be nice if MS did start taking risks. They had some interesting desktop effects going on in the early Longhorn days. Sure it's only eye candy, but some of us wouldn't mind the option of having it to turn on.

Agreed. For those who complain about it only being eye candy: It works for Apple.

Trueblue711 said,

Agreed. For those who complain about it only being eye candy: It works for Apple.

it also works for ubuntu, it wasnt untill compiz became general before linux could nip away more windows users to their cause.

I'm already starting to dislike Windows 8 between its 3D desktop and it's complete move to the "cloud." Guess I'll stick with Windows 7 for quite a while!

stvnwst said,
I'm already starting to dislike Windows 8 between its 3D desktop and it's complete move to the "cloud." Guess I'll stick with Windows 7 for quite a while!
To me, it seems there's too much speculation. I can't see how they are moving *everything* to the cloud, or even big parts of it, really.

What I think is going to happen are settings, browser notes, work documents and this type of stuff in the cloud, so that you can access it anytime.

Victor V. said,
To me, it seems there's too much speculation. I can't see how they are moving *everything* to the cloud, or even big parts of it, really.

What I think is going to happen are settings, browser notes, work documents and this type of stuff in the cloud, so that you can access it anytime.

That definitely seems to be a lot more realistic +1

Victor V. said,
What I think is going to happen are settings, browser notes, work documents and this type of stuff in the cloud, so that you can access it anytime.

Yeah but this is the problem, I don't need to access it anytime and I'd rather not have sensitive documents in the cloud but on a password protected memory stick.

Than again, maybe I am just old fashoned and not really into cloud anything at the moment.

Mr Spoon said,

Yeah but this is the problem, I don't need to access it anytime and I'd rather not have sensitive documents in the cloud but on a password protected memory stick.

Than again, maybe I am just old fashoned and not really into cloud anything at the moment.

Ok, you have also read that cloud usage IS OPTIONAL, and even the 3D desktop features ARE OPTIONAL?

I don't get your contention.

thenetavenger said,

Ok, you have also read that cloud usage IS OPTIONAL, and even the 3D desktop features ARE OPTIONAL?

I don't get your contention.

Where are everybody getting these news about the cloud? In the original article, published on Windows8Italia.com, the only reference to the cloud is the following:

"Le news relative ad un possibile sistema operativo basato sul Cloud-Computing non si riferirebbero a Windows 8, ma ad un altro sistema operativo, di cui parlerĂ² nel prossimo post"

which, correctly translated, says:

" The news about a cloud based OS are not referred to Windows 8 but to ANOTHER OS and I will talk about in a future post"

Fritzly said,

Where are everybody getting these news about the cloud? In the original article, published on Windows8Italia.com, the only reference to the cloud is the following:

"Le news relative ad un possibile sistema operativo basato sul Cloud-Computing non si riferirebbero a Windows 8, ma ad un altro sistema operativo, di cui parlerĂ² nel prossimo post"

which, correctly translated, says:

" The news about a cloud based OS are not referred to Windows 8 but to ANOTHER OS and I will talk about in a future post"


microsoft indeed has a vast number of OS's in development and production, even well beyond windows (desktop, server, phone). Some will never even get outside MS's R&D.

MS should wait a decade to unleash a phenomenal cloud based OS not with Win8 the bandwidth they have to pay for now must be unreal.

They should get rid of the start menu. In windows 7, it's practically made redundant by the taskbar.
I propose the Start Menu becomes a turbocharged super-duper mashup of Mac OSX Lion's Command Deck, the App Launcher and the live tiles of Windows Phone 7.

I would like to see how a 3D desktop will help productivity. Seems like it may just be more eye candy like DreamScapes were.

A lot of that sounds made up. And if it is all true, then it sounds like a bunch of stuff they'll never get finished in time.

3D? Does it means that we will have to use glasses to use the desktop? The rest of the article is more interesting though.

Fritzly said,
3D? Does it means that we will have to use glasses to use the desktop? The rest of the article is more interesting though.

I doubt that. I think it will be the standard 3D space with 3D models like games have used for years. I cannot see them requiring 3D glasses.

Fritzly said,
3D? Does it means that we will have to use glasses to use the desktop?
Doubtful, I think it just means it'll have proper depth rather than looking very flat 2D.

Fritzly said,
3D? Does it means that we will have to use glasses to use the desktop? The rest of the article is more interesting though.

Not necessarily, by the time Windows 8 is out, auto-stereoscopic 3D displays will be much more prevalent.

prismatics said,

Not necessarily, by the time Windows 8 is out, auto-stereoscopic 3D displays will be much more prevalent.

No it won't.

Kirkburn said,
Doubtful, I think it just means it'll have proper depth rather than looking very flat 2D.

Not sure; the article mentions that in order to have the 3D effects a special monitoe will be needed.
Now a 3D desktop meant as a desktop with "Depth" would be very interesting indeed.

Shadowzz said,

just like aero?

The current Windows's user interface uses the GDI/GDI+ API to draw the elements inside each window. The new Windows 8's UI will be built on the new Direct2D/DirectWrite API, which is hardware accelerated.

chrispinto said,
This will be an interesting move indeed.

Also will be interesting what Apple do in 10.8, if not OS XI

if they take windows to the cloud and that means that my data will be flying around somewhere in the cloud i will be sticking to win 7 for very very long time.

This move would just scare more customers towards apple.

nekrosoft13 said,

if they take windows to the cloud and that means that my data will be flying around somewhere in the cloud i will be sticking to win 7 for very very long time.

This move would just scare more customers towards apple.


Agreed, I do use Dropbox and Live Mesh to sync different kinds of data between several devices but I want all my data available offline. I'd love to see MS add some nice cloud feature, as long as the OS won't need access to the cloud to work properly (Chrome OS) I'm fine with it...

Leonick said,

Agreed, I do use Dropbox and Live Mesh to sync different kinds of data between several devices but I want all my data available offline. I'd love to see MS add some nice cloud feature, as long as the OS won't need access to the cloud to work properly (Chrome OS) I'm fine with it...

I second that, I hope Microsoft stays with their vision of Software + Service and don't go all cloudy with us. Because i am sure i will stick with Windows 7 for ever and if no other option move to Linux.

Leonick said,

Agreed, I do use Dropbox and Live Mesh to sync different kinds of data between several devices but I want all my data available offline. I'd love to see MS add some nice cloud feature, as long as the OS won't need access to the cloud to work properly (Chrome OS) I'm fine with it...

Yeah i would be a bit worried if i don't have my files offline.

nekrosoft13 said,

if they take windows to the cloud and that means that my data will be flying around somewhere in the cloud i will be sticking to win 7 for very very long time.

This move would just scare more customers towards apple.

Ok, not to be mean, but you do realize that storing your data in the cloud will be fully optional, JUST AS IT IS IN WINDOWS 7...

Since you like Windows 7, I am going to assume you don't realize that you already have several features you can turn on to keep and sync data in the Cloud now...

You already have these available off the top of my head...

Windows Media Player - remote access from your Live ID, stream you home music anywhere.
Live Mesh - Sync Folders to Skydrive, Sync Favorites, Sync Office Application settings, Remote access to numerous computers that you have allowed via your LiveID
Live Messenger - Contacts - Facebook integration and status, LiveID status integration, content sharing
Live Photo Gallery - Photo Sharing, Face Tags Automatically detected and coordinated via Contacts and Facebook
Live Movie Maker - Video Sharing
Live Office - Document sharing, Online Word, Excel, etc (free)

Non-Free stuff using Vista and Win7 technologies...
MS Office (purchased version) - OneNOte syncing
MS Office Business features - Groove, Sharepoint, etc, etc...


So if you aren't using any of this, why do you think you will be forced to use more advanced versions of it in Win8?

Additional note, as for Cloud storage, MS is unlike most data storage companies (namely Google), as your information is not only encrypted, but not human accessible, so even Bill Gates or Ballmer could not acccess your stored content, as all IT operations are queued through machine calls - meaning humans can't ever touch or see your data or email on Live/Hotmail.

(In contrast to Google, any IT person working there can pull up your account, Gmail, Docs, and even Android usage information they collect. They have no safeguards or a firewall between the data and human access.)

So if you did decide to keep something online, MS's Cloud and data servers are by far the safest, as even hacked data would still be encyrpted at NSA levels.