Windows 8 Live ID login image leaks and other features surface

Microsoft is hard at work on its next major operating system. With Windows 8 due out in 2012, the closer we get to the product launch, the more information will surface about the included features.

A Chinese site, Win7china, (via windows8beta.com) has landed new information about what Microsoft will be including in the next major Windows release. The site states that Windows 8 will have a factory restore feature that will return the computer to its factory state in under 2 minutes and that the installation time of Windows 8 M3 took 8 minutes to install. This install time is approximately 2.5 times faster than Windows 7.

The factory restore feature will not require a disk to be inserted to accomplish this task and the required hard disk space to do this is said to be minimal.

The Chinese site also confirmed several other items that we knew would be incorporated into Windows 8 including an app store and the ability to log in using Windows Live ID.  The picture below was also leaked that shows the Windows Live ID login in the task bar that confirms the Windows Live ID login.

 

The mouse taskbar tile is highlighted because Windows 8 now shows driver installation progress.

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I like the idea of Windows 8, I don't like the idea of Windows Cloud...? although it is a good way of combatting piracy.

DarkSim905 said,
The sleeping giant is awake, and it's afraid of Google. Far behind, too.

just...lol

edit: And I'm not laughing with you:p

How many here think leaks are actually allowed by Microsoft? I mean, look how excited we all are, praising the new features. It's like they do it on purpose to get people all reved up to buy the new OS. Well, it's working. I want it already! (nah nah I always want the latest OS) lol...

SPARTdAN said,
All those pictures have done for me, is reinforce how ugly Windows still is.

How many times do we have to repeat ourselves? Early builds never look like the finished product. Not even close. All the work is going on underneath and the UI is the last thing to be put on top. This time next year, or maybe by the end of 2011 if we're lucky, we'll see what Windows 8 really looks like.

I know that everyone gets super excited when new screenshots leak of a new windows OS, hoever I fail to see why... I mean until RC all we are seeing is just windows 7 with a few new features, oh well, maybe in the next milestone we will see some REAL changes, maybe a new taskbar (albeit I like the KDE look)...

Who knows, lets just wait and see what happens

maybe they can add an animated cloud to the task bar next! it will tie together cluttering the task bar with complete junk and the crap cloud. so awesome!
/s

ugh....more junk I don't need. Why the heck can't they let people have the OS without addons? If I want addons taking up needless space; I will add them. ktnx.....whatever Microsoft.

Mike Frett said,
ugh....more junk I don't need. Why the heck can't they let people have the OS without addons? If I want addons taking up needless space; I will add them. ktnx.....whatever Microsoft.

What if cloud login is not an addon at all but the central way you log into Windows?

I do still hope they heavily include the Metro Design Language within the next major version of Windows. If they make the interface very inconsistent compared to Windows Phone 7, I won't be happy. I doubt they would though as they appear to be including Metro in everything nowadays.

Callum said,
I do still hope they heavily include the Metro Design Language within the next major version of Windows. If they make the interface very inconsistent compared to Windows Phone 7, I won't be happy. I doubt they would though as they appear to be including Metro in everything nowadays.

Please, by all means, point out to me where they are using metro in IE 9! lol. The back button on the browser? That could also be considered a take on the longhorn concepts.

Gutierrez said,
if the OS itself is 2.5 times faster than 7, Im all in
Well if we require new hardware, then no, slower I'm afraid.

Might be the case if Microsoft assumes a GPU like Intel wants them too.

Why in the second picture there are two picture tiles with the WMP icon? I mean, the interactive avatars are .GIF files. So overall the only new and worthy feature in Windows 8, so far, is installation speed? C'mon, I wanna see already the integrated Kinect features on Windows 8 !

astroX said,
Why in the second picture there are two picture tiles with the WMP icon? I mean, the interactive avatars are .GIF files. So overall the only new and worthy feature in Windows 8, so far, is installation speed? C'mon, I wanna see already the integrated Kinect features on Windows 8 !

there is only 1 . you see Paint and WMP icons 2x Paint tiles and also new is the fact it seems when a device is being updated for drivers or installed drivers there is a live tile shown of said device and a live tile progression bar shown . these are just 2 small features so we need to wait to see more when more is shown by MS or by a leaked thing

Cloud computing sounds fine, but it must remain secondary for now (contrast this to Google's approach). Microsoft's current approach to cloud computing is on the right track.

As for that 8 minute figure, well you can't really speed up the imaging of a disk image, so I'm assuming they either reduced the size of the OS, or streamlined some of the post-imaging operatoins.

I bet that crossword grid is a unique ID for a build/installation... If I were the person who leaked this, I'd be a bit worried now...

p q said,
I bet that crossword grid is a unique ID for a build/installation... If I were the person who leaked this, I'd be a bit worried now...

Nah, it's generic. Trust me I know

p q said,
I bet that crossword grid is a unique ID for a build/installation... If I were the person who leaked this, I'd be a bit worried now...

Oh, wow, that's a good point. Even if it isn't, that's a great idea.

This looks very cool if legit. I for one, am starting to embrace more and more the idea of a cloud-centric platform. As it is right now I live there almost exclusively; between all of the Google integration between my phone and say Chrome and Google servers - it's all starting to fit. Having my OS being the client rather than some browser is a real scrumptious thought. Right now Windows 7, as much as I love it, is just a big, mostly-cloud uncooperative behemoth.

Benjy91 said,
Fingers crossed for the Font from Windows Phone 7 to be the system font :-)

Nah - Zegoe UI over Segoe WP anyday.

This "Cloud creep", even if just an option, sucks. If you don't use it it'll probably still sit there in the corner of the taskbar taking up space and reminding you that you should "because it's awesome and stuff!!"

Lannister said,
This "Cloud creep", even if just an option, sucks. If you don't use it it'll probably still sit there in the corner of the taskbar taking up space and reminding you that you should "because it's awesome and stuff!!"

Spot the XP user! Windows Vista prompts you with this stuff much less than XP, and Windows 7 hardly does it at all. My guess: Windows 8 will be even more subtle.

Timble said,

Spot the XP user! Windows Vista prompts you with this stuff much less than XP, and Windows 7 hardly does it at all. My guess: Windows 8 will be even more subtle.

Vista (and Linux) user!
But yeah, maybe it's my age or something(closer to 40 than 30), but I just dislike the "forced social" aspect of so much software these days, even if it's less forced and more "go on, login and share with your facebook/whatever friends" suggestion.

Lannister said,

Vista (and Linux) user!
But yeah, maybe it's my age or something(closer to 40 than 30), but I just dislike the "forced social" aspect of so much software these days, even if it's less forced and more "go on, login and share with your facebook/whatever friends" suggestion.

Please - not all the old goats are neo-Luddites.

IN fact, I'm staring the big five-oh in the face (and came into PCs from mainframes) and see this as basically old-style terminal (and later LAN) computing writ large. (Have we forgotten that the original WordPerfect word processing program was written for IBM mainframes?)

techguy77 said,
What would be factory restored option for Retail Copy? To me seems like another stupid idea.

Creating an optional (SettingsRestore) partition during the installation (or even using the current SystemReserved partition, suitably enlarged, of course, for it)?

Basically, it's an outgrowth of LastKnownGood (which has been in Windows in some form since XP). And considering the standard size of hard drives (for notebooks, even 320GB is considered *small*), losing 20 GB for a safety net (pun not intended, Apple fans) is bad *how*?

techguy77 said,
What would be factory restored option for Retail Copy? To me seems like another stupid idea.

Anyone who's ever reinstalled Windows to cure persistent driver or malware issues knows this makes sense. Why re-copy all the files from the DVD when the OS gives you a built in way of restoring the settings? Sounds wonderful to me! Here's hoping it will also allow you to remove the bundled junk from any new PC in one fell swoop. Too much to hope for?

Timble said,

Anyone who's ever reinstalled Windows to cure persistent driver or malware issues knows this makes sense. Why re-copy all the files from the DVD when the OS gives you a built in way of restoring the settings? Sounds wonderful to me! Here's hoping it will also allow you to remove the bundled junk from any new PC in one fell swoop. Too much to hope for?

Just did a factor restore to my PC last month. Its very hand particulary for diver issues that just won't allow themselves to be fixed via driver re-installs. I love the factory restore feature but it does take time and mine takes additional time because my PC came pre-installed with Vista.

One thing I wish they would improve is the need to install so many updates before you get to the service pack in order to upgrade from Vista to 7.

techguy77 said,
What would be factory restored option for Retail Copy? To me seems like another stupid idea.
As long as it's hardware encrypted (as in a different unlock key per PC, based on hardware config) and can't be touched by malware then it should work nicely.

I do not want to use Windows Live LoginID to login to my Windows. Wtf crap is that...i will probably be one of those people who will never upgrade to new Windows because of Cloud Computing being enforced.

techguy77 said,
I do not want to use Windows Live LoginID to login to my Windows. Wtf crap is that...i will probably be one of those people who will never upgrade to new Windows because of Cloud Computing being enforced.

I think it's an option not obligation.

techguy77 said,
I do not want to use Windows Live LoginID to login to my Windows. Wtf crap is that...i will probably be one of those people who will never upgrade to new Windows because of Cloud Computing being enforced.

Do you use webmail, techguy? Do you find it convenient to be able to log in to that from any computer, whether at a friend's house, on holiday or at home? I bet you do. Now imagine being able to log into your programs, settings, files and desktop from any computer too. Isn't that a cool idea? I think it is.

techguy77 said,
I do not want to use Windows Live LoginID to login to my Windows. Wtf crap is that...i will probably be one of those people who will never upgrade to new Windows because of Cloud Computing being enforced.

No one has even officially stated that it will be mandatory It might just be an option.

Timble said,

Do you use webmail, techguy? Do you find it convenient to be able to log in to that from any computer, whether at a friend's house, on holiday or at home? I bet you do. Now imagine being able to log into your programs, settings, files and desktop from any computer too. Isn't that a cool idea? I think it is.

Truth here. I use Live Mesh all the time, it's brilliant.

I am liking what I am seeing so far. I mean, I am sure that windows 8 will surprised most people like they did with windows phone 7, kinect and I am almost forgot IE9. I really like competition but most importantly how companies like Micrososoft respond to competition...lol

Uhm... Okay... Instead of one user picture in start menu, now there will be second one on taskbar. Great idea... NOT... If they want to integrate Live services, or Live login into Windows 8, they should start in Control Panel in users preferences and if you will be logged into live.com, your user picture frame in start menu could be in different color or something like that, but not another picture in tasbar...

6205 said,
Uhm... Okay... Instead of one user picture in start menu, now there will be second one on taskbar. Great idea... NOT... If they want to integrate Live services, or Live login into Windows 8, they should start in Control Panel in users preferences and if you will be logged into live.com, your user picture frame in start menu could be in different color or something like that, but not another picture in tasbar...

Don't panic. Remember we are the best part of a year from even the first public beta. What matters at this stage is features. The exact location of icons and things will probably change several times between now and release.

6205 said,
Uhm... Okay... Instead of one user picture in start menu, now there will be second one on taskbar. Great idea... NOT... If they want to integrate Live services, or Live login into Windows 8, they should start in Control Panel in users preferences and if you will be logged into live.com, your user picture frame in start menu could be in different color or something like that, but not another picture in tasbar...

How do you know it's going to be included in the Start menu with this version? It's always best to try it out before you judge and assume. As you can't try it out, it's best to wait and see before you judge and assume.

Timble said,

Don't panic. Remember we are the best part of a year from even the first public beta. What matters at this stage is features. The exact location of icons and things will probably change several times between now and release.

Umm...Funny. I hear that the first public beta is going to be this fall and the final release by no later than next fall.

winlonghorn said,

Umm...Funny. I hear that the first public beta is going to be this fall and the final release by no later than next fall.

Granted, it is still rumors, but remember that Windows 7 actually RTM'd the fall of the year prior to it being on store shelves. If their planned 3 year mark is what they are sticking to, that makes 2012 the definite release year for Windows 8. : )

morphen said,
ok,this seriously needs to leak...like...now
It sucks in its current form anyways. Besides it's locked down to internal access atm.

war said,
It sucks in its current form anyways. Besides it's locked down to internal access atm.

So what if it's sucks in it's current form? It's all about testing alphas/betas/RC's. And what is this "locked down to internal access" you speak of? I've always tried pre-releases from microsoft, that beeing leaked and official, and none of them has ever been "locked down to internal access".

morphen said,

So what if it's sucks in it's current form? It's all about testing alphas/betas/RC's. And what is this "locked down to internal access" you speak of? I've always tried pre-releases from microsoft, that beeing leaked and official, and none of them has ever been "locked down to internal access".

What I meant was these releases are only internal at this point. As in, Microsoft only. They are not being shared with outside companies. The links happened once Microsoft made access available to third parties.

My dream: I don't need a local user account; I can just log in with my Windows Live ID. I don't need to download Live Mesh; every folder has a button on the toolbar to let me sync it to the cloud, and I can sync folders of my choice to my Windows Phone as well. All my settings and all the apps I've bought from the future Windows Marketplace come with me when I log in to any Windows 8 PC. Please, Microsoft. Make it happen.

CalumCookable said,
My dream: I don't need a local user account; I can just log in with my Windows Live ID. I don't need to download Live Mesh; every folder has a button on the toolbar to let me sync it to the cloud, and I can sync folders of my choice to my Windows Phone as well. All my settings and all the apps I've bought from the future Windows Marketplace come with me when I log in to any Windows 8 PC. Please, Microsoft. Make it happen.

Interesting. I kinda like that...

CalumCookable said,
My dream: I don't need a local user account; I can just log in with my Windows Live ID. I don't need to download Live Mesh; every folder has a button on the toolbar to let me sync it to the cloud, and I can sync folders of my choice to my Windows Phone as well. All my settings and all the apps I've bought from the future Windows Marketplace come with me when I log in to any Windows 8 PC. Please, Microsoft. Make it happen.

THIS!
It should be the dictionary definition of "cloud services", I'd love to see that happen too.

I hope we have a choice, I'm not so fond of this integration to the cloud. Isnt that what happened with Vista? There was a saying that "Vista controlled your PC". I hope Microsoft doesn't make that mistake again.

xbamaris said,
I hope we have a choice, I'm not so fond of this integration to the cloud. Isnt that what happened with Vista? There was a saying that "Vista controlled your PC". I hope Microsoft doesn't make that mistake again.

The cloud didn't come up during Vista's development at all - what killed Vista was a combination of FUD and highly-resistant ISVs that were in no rush to abandon XP.

PGHammer said,

The cloud didn't come up during Vista's development at all - what killed Vista was a combination of FUD and highly-resistant ISVs that were in no rush to abandon XP.

Agreed 100%

PGHammer said,

The cloud didn't come up during Vista's development at all - what killed Vista was a combination of FUD and highly-resistant ISVs that were in no rush to abandon XP.

If only it was all FUD. Vista sucked until SP2. Not just because of device drivers!

As long as I can associate my Live Id AFTER creating a local user account, and setting up my WiFi with AntiVirus!

martinDTanderson said,
As long as I can associate my Live Id AFTER creating a local user account, and setting up my WiFi with AntiVirus!

What?

Frylock86 said,

What?

saying that you cant get on the system until you have the net, but you cant set up the net until you are into the system *lol* its circular

martinDTanderson said,
As long as I can associate my Live Id AFTER creating a local user account, and setting up my WiFi with AntiVirus!

hahah

neufuse said,
oh please dont tell me we are going to start cramming stuf into the taskbar again?

I doubt that is the Windows 8 UI, if they have even gotten that far yet.

Love the "shhh… let's not leak our hard work" wallpapers.... they sure did a great job not leaking information

Rudy said,
Love the "shhh… let's not leak our hard work" wallpapers.... they sure did a great job not leaking information
They leak on purpose. That's just an inside joke.

xbamaris said,
lol, MinWin? xD

Whats with the background, I guess they are doing old school Windows 95 background xD

yeah gota love the old 95 aqua colors

Jack@l said,
8 minutes with two 800mb/s SSD-s

Actually... with 3x vertex 2 SSD drives and my system, I was able to install Windows 7 from my Patriot quad channel USB drive in under 4 minutes.... I wonder how long it will take with Windows 8...

I'm quite curious how the Windows Live ID Login will work.

Would it be meant as "logging in" *into Windows* with the Live ID, or would it just be "logging in" *into Cloud services*; after logging in *into Windows* with a traditional account?

Jeffrey89 said,
I'm quite curious how the Windows Live ID Login will work.

Would it be meant as "logging in" *into Windows* with the Live ID, or would it just be "logging in" *into Cloud services*; after logging in *into Windows* with a traditional account?

I imagine the latter. They can link mail notifcations and cloud drive space, messenger etc right into the OS then and you only have to login/link your accounts once to your windows account

Jeffrey89 said,
I'm quite curious how the Windows Live ID Login will work.

Would it be meant as "logging in" *into Windows* with the Live ID, or would it just be "logging in" *into Cloud services*; after logging in *into Windows* with a traditional account?

Going to bet it is a credential broker that simply links your local credentials with your LiveID, as you can do in Windows7 now.

If not it would break a lot of user's network and security setups, and would make it impossible to use any of the cloud features in a corporate/business world with Active Directory security.

Neo003 said,
In actuality "8 minutes to install Windows 8" is a bad motto to go with, what'll happen with windows 9.

9 seconds to install

Choto Cheeta said,
Factory restore option... That sounds like a new place for Virus and malware to hide from watchful eyes of security products....

Factory settings are malware

Choto Cheeta said,
Factory restore option... That sounds like a new place for Virus and malware to hide from watchful eyes of security products....

Although it will be handy for Windows users. Isn't having a factory restore option as part of the OS sort of treating the symptoms rather than solving the underling problems? It would be handy for Sys Admins though and computer repairers.

DomZ said,

Although it will be handy for Windows users. Isn't having a factory restore option as part of the OS sort of treating the symptoms rather than solving the underling problems? It would be handy for Sys Admins though and computer repairers.

Well if you totally trash something, bad drivers or really bad virus etc, normally you'd end up reinstalling anyways so why not just reset instead? That's what this sounds like to me, for those extreme cases.

wow, 8 minutes to install Windows 8, that's amazing! That will save myself an incredible amount of time whenever I reinstall Windows... wait, I only install Windows once every 2-3 years. too bad

Hopefully MS did not forget to improve other, more important features...

vacs said,
wow, 8 minutes to install Windows 8, that's amazing! That will save myself an incredible amount of time whenever I reinstall Windows... wait, I only install Windows once every 2-3 years. too bad

Hopefully MS did not forget to improve other, more important features...


Wow the amount of trolls in this stroy is incredible. Where does it say that this is EVERYTHING they improved? Why would you even think that? And I don't know about you but, I don't like waiting a half hour for windows to install when I do install it or reinstall it. I welcome this and the OTHER FEATURES that they have and will add.

De.Bug said,

Wow the amount of trolls in this stroy is incredible. Where does it say that this is EVERYTHING they improved? Why would you even think that? And I don't know about you but, I don't like waiting a half hour for windows to install when I do install it or reinstall it. I welcome this and the OTHER FEATURES that they have and will add.

Nice reading skills troll. Where did I say that this will be the ONLY thing they improve?

vacs said,

Nice reading skills troll. Where did I say that this will be the ONLY thing they improve?

You implied it quite clearly:
"Hopefully MS did not forget to improve other, more important features..."

What a coincidence that this big leak (not like just giving numbers of the current build) is just one day from Apple announcement for the iPad 2, nevertheless is welcomed, MS has catch up with the right way to build up hype about their products (yeah right I know they didn't have anything to do with it, just like apple doesn't have anything to do with the leaks of their products).

ahhell said,
?????
What does this leak have to do with the iPad!?!?!?!?
How is MS building hype?!?

The point is that this leaks are way to obvious, since they reveal basic info of the product but not the most important ones, most likely these are pushed by the companies them self, whether is apple or MS, that way you can see the reaction of the public to some of the trends in design. Trust me whatever a company does not want us to know, we won't; and its not conspiracies theories is just they being protective over their investments.

Meconio said,

The point is that this leaks are way to obvious, since they reveal basic info of the product but not the most important ones

Welcome to Marketing 101, controlled Leaks.... IT WORKS!

Meconio said,

The point is that this leaks are way to obvious, since they reveal basic info of the product but not the most important ones, most likely these are pushed by the companies them self, whether is apple or MS, that way you can see the reaction of the public to some of the trends in design. Trust me whatever a company does not want us to know, we won't; and its not conspiracies theories is just they being protective over their investments.

And outside the technical community, how many people do you think will ever see these screens of Win8 at this stage? I would guess less than 1/10 of a percent.

This has zero impact on the Apple iPad announcement.

Nice feature to be able to login with live ID. Wonder if it uses a public API (like the security/antivirus API in Windows 7) that allows other providers to be used as well. I think it would be nice to sign in with my Google ID.

spartyjohnson said,
Nice feature to be able to login with live ID. Wonder if it uses a public API (like the security/antivirus API in Windows 7) that allows other providers to be used as well. I think it would be nice to sign in with my Google ID.

You can already link your Windows Live account with your Windows Account in Windows 7 is the control panel, and there's already an API set up to allow other online ID providers to do the same. No one else has though yet.

spartyjohnson said,
Nice feature to be able to login with live ID. Wonder if it uses a public API (like the security/antivirus API in Windows 7) that allows other providers to be used as well. I think it would be nice to sign in with my Google ID.

I agree, OpenID should be the authentication system, and the folks over at windows Live need to get their OpenID API working.

This announcement has me thinking back to the days when xp was released and they showed longhorn/blackcomb concept reels.

dotf said,
This announcement has me thinking back to the days when xp was released and they showed longhorn/blackcomb concept reels.

MS didn't show anything here...those are leaked pictures.

dotf said,

I agree, OpenID should be the authentication system, and the folks over at windows Live need to get their OpenID API working.

This announcement has me thinking back to the days when xp was released and they showed longhorn/blackcomb concept reels.

I agree as well, but... this is Microsoft, do you really expect them to do that?

The longhorn concept was nice, yes. Too bad the ideas there didn't quite make it into Vista. Or 7. There's still hope!

shinji257 said,

I think that still requires the helper plugin which is IE only unfortunately.

What does this have to do with IE?

It simply links your Windows Live ID with your login credentials on the computer. Any applicaiton can use this credential association. IE does use this association, so does Windows Messenger, Photo Gallery, Mesh, Media Player, etc...

Any other Browser or application can also use this association. Are you asking for Microsoft to create a plugin for other browsers?

PS Anyone that hasn't linked their LiveID, are missing out on a few of Win7 features, like being able to access your music and videos in media player from any computer, or remote access to your computer with Live Mesh, etc.

It is the 'stepping' blocks of merging your local and online credentials, or brokering of them that will have even more functionality in Windows8.

dotf said,

I agree, OpenID should be the authentication system, and the folks over at windows Live need to get their OpenID API working.

This announcement has me thinking back to the days when xp was released and they showed longhorn/blackcomb concept reels.

Microsoft has been a part of OpenID since around 2007 or 2008.

Integration of LiveID and OpenID was on track in 2009 with Microsoft waiting on fixes in OpenID security. Microsoft also was also submitting functionality requests for OpenID.

Nothing has been said since, and the security fixes Microsoft was trying to get fixed in OpenID are still not resolved.

It seems like once Google signed on board with OpenID, Microsoft has been being ignored. Which is a bit scary that OpenID is gaining a lot of recognition and success for what it was designed, but still has a lot of security holes that prevent Microsoft from linking LiveID to it.

LiveID is far more secure than a regular web login and what other providers like Google have. -Again which is scary considering how many users depend on the security of their Google account for their OS credentials for Android and Chrome.

thenetavenger said,

Microsoft has been a part of OpenID since around 2007 or 2008.

Integration of LiveID and OpenID was on track in 2009 with Microsoft waiting on fixes in OpenID security. Microsoft also was also submitting functionality requests for OpenID.

Nothing has been said since, and the security fixes Microsoft was trying to get fixed in OpenID are still not resolved.

It seems like once Google signed on board with OpenID, Microsoft has been being ignored. Which is a bit scary that OpenID is gaining a lot of recognition and success for what it was designed, but still has a lot of security holes that prevent Microsoft from linking LiveID to it.

LiveID is far more secure than a regular web login and what other providers like Google have. -Again which is scary considering how many users depend on the security of their Google account for their OS credentials for Android and Chrome.

My Google account uses two-factor authentication. LiveID may have support for identity cards, but realistically, that's not a very user-friendly feature and I don't see many people using it. Two-factor authentication is relatively new for Google, but it's been rather painless for me. (With the exception of all those one-time passwords, but hey, I'll trade a little convenience for security any day.)

The real scary bit is that the average user simply doesn't care about security until their account gets hacked... and even then they just whine about it.

Also the problem with Microsoft's support of OpenID was that it was one-way. Live IDs could be used as OpenIDs, but I didn't see any plans to allow OpenID login to Microsoft services. If every provider does that, OpenID is completely pointless.