Windows Phone 8 appears to have RTMd

A new report from WPcentral is stating that Windows Phone 8 has RTMd. This information lines up with previous rumors that Windows Phone 8 would be released to manufacturing during the month of September. 

With Windows Phone 8 hitting RTM, it will give carriers and vendors time to begin the final testing of the platform before a reveal at the end of October and a November launch. If Microsoft can maintain this time-frame, they will be able to get products on retail shelves before the crucial holiday season. Also, this time-frame would allow Microsoft to launch Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 at nearly the same time and considering the cross-platform unity the two operating systems have, it will be a powerful combo to release right before the holiday season.

Microsoft has yet to fully reveal Windows Phone 8 but did offer some information about the platform back in June. An SDK leak has shown off many of the expected unannounced features but until Microsoft confirms all of the leaked information, it's all (probable) speculation at this point.

Microsoft should be announcing a the remaining features for Windows Phone 8 soon as we were told today the company still has a few items up their sleeves. For now, take the news as a strong likelihood of being accurate but until the company confirms it, its a rumor at this point.

The image above comes from Weibo.com but appear to confirm that Windows Phone 8 has RTMd...party on folks.

We have requested a comment from Microsoft to confirm or deny the report.

Source: WPCentral

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I hope someone sues apple over there stupid iPhone 5 description saying IOS is the most advanced mobile OS in the world cus its quite clear WP8 is more advanced. The most boring and full of **** OS sure, advanced nah

They have to say something that they can get away with. They can no longer say its the best spec-wise, feature-wise or in terms of innovation. The iPhone 5 is just a iPhone 4L and they know it. The OS is the only thing left they can brag about.

Problem is Windows Phone 8already looks as impressive and it isn't even fully announced. When Microsoft announces all the features at Build 2012, this description will be a joke.

Wonder if this means HTC will be able to show more on their September 19th event or just the hardware itself like the other 3? Maybe HTC knew the date (probably) and that's why they decided to go after everyone else while the others wanted to beat Apple to the announcement punch?

Man, I hope we don't have to wait all the wait for BUILD in late Oct to get WP8 details, MS should do a event in early Oct just for WP8 again to show us everything and release the SDK to everyone.

Hm... I guess I'll make the first on topic post... LOL

Good for Microsoft on reaching RTM. I can't wait to see what all WP8 brings. Still hoping for VPN Support. Lol

VoX said,

There hasn't been a phone, with Windows Mobile on it , EVER worth trying to unlock the bootloader. My guess is the Lumia 920, will probably fall by the wayside and be obsolete 20 minutes after it's released. No one cares. Just like certain types of software isn't pirated, saying... You're software is so terrible, it's not even worth pirating.

...How sad is that?

Not as sad as the way you think

spy beef said,
Will there be rom hack for current WP7 devices?

NO, NO and NO! You people annoy me! If it was technically possible MS would have done it! You will NEVER see WP8 on current devices

PmRd said,

NO, NO and NO! You people annoy me! If it was technically possible MS would have done it! You will NEVER see WP8 on current devices

Microsoft said first gen wp7 devices wasn't capable of tethering, but xda hackers proved them wrong. It's not the first time Microsoft lied to make us buy new devices.

WP7 is WinCE based, WP8 is NT based.
WP7 requires asingle core processor, WP8 requires a dual core processor.

[quote=PmRd said,]

NO, NO and NO! You people annoy me! If it was technically possible MS would have done it! You will NEVER see WP8 on current devices[/quote

What makes you think so? There are many factors involved, and not all of them are technical related.

spy beef said,

Microsoft said first gen wp7 devices wasn't capable of tethering, but xda hackers proved them wrong. It's not the first time Microsoft lied to make us buy new devices.

Exactly lol. Companies lie.

nub said,
WP7 is WinCE based, WP8 is NT based.

One other important difference comes out of that.

That has a very important consequence.

Windows CE ships with source code for the kernel. Anyone with an MSDN account can get it.

Windows 8 does not come with source code for the kernel, except to governments.

PmRd said,

NO, NO and NO! You people annoy me! If it was technically possible MS would have done it! You will NEVER see WP8 on current devices

Technically possible, and within 'performance expectations' are two different things.

Win 7/8 NT WOA was running on a single core 256mb pre-WP7 generation device and WP7 generation devices.

To get the level of performance Microsoft wanted, and is expected of the platform, the beefier hardware is required.

This is not a 'technical' decision, but one so that the user experience isn't so slow and the platform developers can expect a level of hardware to be present.

NT can run on lower end ARM devices, and in the 90s did.

People on XDA might be very bright but I doubt anyone will be able to even get WP8 on a Lumia 900 exactly due to drivers and the new kernel. You might see WP 7.8 on the HD2 though.

EllaP said,
WTF people thinks XDA are magicians or something...

People who think that have no idea how that stuff works

EllaP said,
WTF people thinks XDA are magicians or something...

This - especially in regards to drivers, XDA usually always rely on leaks from somewhere to do it, and then reassemble that hard work into something they can share with the public. They hardly ever write their own from scratch.

Josh_LosAltosHills said,

XDA proves people wrong all the time.

I'll never be proven wrong, WP8 can't work on older hardware, people at XDA would have to rewrite all the drivers and probably make a new kernel for the new hardware. They were never able to get android to boot on the HD7 and they have the entire source code so...

If they were able to get WP7 on the HD2 it's because it's more or less exactly the same hardware than the HD7. You don't see WP7 on other WP6.5 devices do you?

XDA people are good but they can't do everything, specially something like porting WP8 to older hardware.

Edited by PmRd, Sep 15 2012, 1:32am :

PmRd said,

I'll never be proven wrong, WP8 can't work on older hardware, people at XDA would have to rewrite all the drivers and probably make a new kernel for the new hardware. They were never able to get android to boot on HD7 so...


Wouldn't they need to write new drivers and a new HAL?

Or does the kernel sit directly on top of the hardware layer?

GS:mac

Glassed Silver said,

Wouldn't they need to write new drivers and a new HAL?

Or does the kernel sit directly on top of the hardware layer?

GS:mac

I don't know the exact details but I know enough to say it's impossible. Older devices don't have secure boot so there's one big problem right there. It's not the same CPU or GPU so you'd have to write drivers for the older GPU and CPU and so on

PmRd said,

I'll never be proven wrong, WP8 can't work on older hardware, people at XDA would have to rewrite all the drivers and probably make a new kernel for the new hardware. They were never able to get android to boot on the HD7 and they have the entire source code so...

If they were able to get WP7 on the HD2 it's because it's more or less exactly the same hardware than the HD7. You don't see WP7 on other WP6.5 devices do you?

XDA people are good but they can't do everything, specially something like porting WP8 to older hardware.

Come on PmRd.. if you have been following WP8 you would know that it does work on older hardware. Hell they are even brining out versions with the same amout of ram. The only reason they swiched is the TMP chip for hightend security. Its not impossible to bypass TMP. Backward compatibility was never an issue. I am sure the dev drivers for the older phones that they were tested on like the Lumia 900 are still on there.

And sure .. chances are very slim for a version to appear on older devices but I bet you that some guy in china will work on it. Never say never again : P

FunkyMike said,

Come on PmRd.. if you have been following WP8 you would know that it does work on older hardware. Hell they are even brining out versions with the same amout of ram. The only reason they swiched is the TMP chip for hightend security. Its not impossible to bypass TMP. Backward compatibility was never an issue. I am sure the dev drivers for the older phones that they were tested on like the Lumia 900 are still on there.

And sure .. chances are very slim for a version to appear on older devices but I bet you that some guy in china will work on it. Never say never again : P

And your source for all this crap is? What does having the same amount of RAM have to do? And how do you know for sure that the hardware they were testing it on was old hardware?

I'm not sure Nokia were all like: "Hey let's spend our time making this beta OS run on our older hardware instead of testing it on the new hardware we are producing right now"

Your "older" hardware is simply new hardware in old cases because they didn't produce the new ones yet at that time

Edited by PmRd, Sep 15 2012, 1:50pm :

Glassed Silver said,

Wouldn't they need to write new drivers and a new HAL?

Or does the kernel sit directly on top of the hardware layer?

GS:mac

Theoretically, the NT kernel was designed to sit on top of the HAL, so that you could replace the HAL without touching the kernel. In practice, however, the HAL is tightly coupled with the executive.

(Sort of like how NT was originally designed as a microkernel, but turned into a hybrid kernel when they put most components into kernel mode for performance reasons. Sometimes theory becomes very inconvenient when you try to turn it into practice.)

PmRd said,

And your source for all this crap is? What does having the same amount of RAM have to do? And how do you know for sure that the hardware they were testing it on was old hardware?

I'm not sure Nokia were all like: "Hey let's spend our time making this beta OS run on our older hardware instead of testing it on the new hardware we are producing right now"

Your "older" hardware is simply new hardware in old cases because they didn't produce the new ones yet at that time

One has to be very ignorant to think that they tested these devices on thin air. Do you know that they tested Windows 7/8 arm alpha on first gen Snapdragons?

Please inform yourself on how an OS gets tested before making radical remarks.

Sources for this are not needed since all it takes is a little reading comprehension on the subject matter, but please feel free to research this yourself.

FunkyMike said,

One has to be very ignorant to think that they tested these devices on thin air. Do you know that they tested Windows 7/8 arm alpha on first gen Snapdragons?

So? That doesn't mean that they are wasting time and resources to have the OS run on the old hardware for absolutely no purpose.

And have you seen the test machines for Windows 8 Arm alpha? They are not testing it on regular arm tablets, they use test boards and that's the same thing for Windows Phone 8. They are not testing it on the old hardware.

Edited by PmRd, Sep 15 2012, 4:31pm :

PmRd said,

So? That doesn't mean that they are wasting time and resources to have the OS run on the old hardware for absolutely no purpose.

And have you seen the test machines for Windows 8 Arm alpha? They are not testing it on regular arm tablets, they use test boards and that's the same thing for Windows Phone 8. They are not testing it on the old hardware.

/facepalm .... they actually used phones with first gen snapdragons to test windows 7/8 arm. Asus I believe...

Here is a nice picture: http://cdn2.sbnation.com/entry..._verge_medium_landscape.jpg

You are right in one thing. They won't be wasting time and resources... for stripping out legacy drivers that are not going to be used on the current incarnation. Chances are good that old drivers still exist if the system can be accessed. But that is another conversation.

TomJones said,

Theoretically, the NT kernel was designed to sit on top of the HAL, so that you could replace the HAL without touching the kernel. In practice, however, the HAL is tightly coupled with the executive.

(Sort of like how NT was originally designed as a microkernel, but turned into a hybrid kernel when they put most components into kernel mode for performance reasons. Sometimes theory becomes very inconvenient when you try to turn it into practice.)

Um, in PRACTICE, it works exactly like this. Where do you get that it 'changed' magically along the way to work differently?

The NT executive layer is written to a common architecture that is provided by the HAL, thus improving performance and ease of portability. So instead of the NT kernel being written for x86, x64, Itanium, PowerPC, or ARM it is written for the NT HAL supplied architecture, which is unlike any platform, including x86.

So to move to ARM, the biggest challenge was a wide spread HAL for various ARM implementations, with only minor or minimal HAL changes needed for specific chipsets.

The NT kernel and Windows code on ARM is identical, no matter if it is S3 or a Tegra device, this is where the NT's HAL demonstrates it advantages in both portability and performance.


So, NO, you are incorrect that the HAL has changed in implementation and theory.

(The HAL is very much its own entity that provides the hardware and architecture translation it was designed to provide and has been providing since around Feb 1992 when it first came online.)


As for the 'change' from Microkernel to Hybrid kernel, this is also incorrect. The NT kernel and kernel model has NOT changed.

When NT was released, Microkernel was the 'closest' definition, and this is why it was used until later when other names were given to the NT kernel model as the differences from a traditional Microkernel were better defined and understood.

NT itself hasn't changed, just the name applied to its variation of kernel technology.

Over the years it has been called: microkernel, client/server kernel, object kernel, matrix layer kernel, and later a hybrid kernel, as it is a 'catch all' kernel terminology.

NT's kernel model is rather complex in implementation, and thus makes it hard to define in a clever name. It is a horizontal/vertical layered model, it is a client/server model with subsystems, it is an object based kernel technology, it does have some microkernel like features, but also overcomes the limitations and performance issues of a microkernel, and on and on and on and on.

A quick reference to point out that OS X's Darwin/XNU is also called a hybrid kernel, yet is drastically different in how it works than NT should give you understanding that it is just a name applied and there was NEVER a change in how NT works.

So the microkernel to hybrid kernel is nothing more than a third catch all kernel category, that is not a traditional microkernel, and not a monolithic kernel.

Side notes:
If you follow the HAL from 3.1 to Windows 7/8, you will notice the layer has grown to support the advances in the x86 and newer x64 architectures, but is still a small translation layer and still provides the same NT architecture to the NT executive/kernel code.

It is how and why NT was ported to several architectures in the NT 4.0 timeframe, and how Microsoft can so easily transparently support x86 and x64 alongside each other and add in ARM and other architectures without significant changes to the code base.


The NT Kernel itself remained virtually unchanged from 3.1 to 6.0, with the first major changes in the NT Kernel happening in NT 6.1 (Windows 7) that redesigned scheduling and granularity and implemented a new multi-page thread management technology. (This had nothing to do with how the NT Kernel model operated and did not change its status, as it has always been the same hybrid technology 'for lack of a better term'.)

Glassed Silver said,

Wouldn't they need to write new drivers and a new HAL?

Or does the kernel sit directly on top of the hardware layer?

GS:mac

The HAL would need to be modified, and drivers for the specific devices on the HD2 would have to be built.

The NT WOA HAL is fairly widespread in ARM technologies it handles; however, just as the HAL was different for SMP and ACPI architecture differences on x86, there is enough of a difference to require a specific HAL for the older single core hardware.

However, it is possible for an end user to mod the HAL and port the WinCE drivers over to NT for the HD2.

So it isn't impossible at all, but would be a bit work.

PmRd said,

Are you serious?

Ya i seriously thought i could download a phone from piratebay or technet. The fact i have to tell you i was kidding worries me ALOT

Colin McGregor said,

Ya i seriously thought i could download a phone from piratebay or technet. The fact i have to tell you i was kidding worries me ALOT

It didn't sound like you thought you could download a phone. It sounded like you thought you could download the Windows Phone 8 OS... which likely will be possible in the future, but not for a few months and certainly not legally. And a download would be useless for all existing devices.

rfirth said,

It didn't sound like you thought you could download a phone. It sounded like you thought you could download the Windows Phone 8 OS... which likely will be possible in the future, but not for few months and certainly not legally. And a download would be useless for all existing devices.

already buying a lumia 920 day 1 so i dont need to download. I was just making a joke since every ms rtm (VS, Win8 and soon Office) lately had the question of technet or piratebay

Colin McGregor said,

Ya i seriously thought i could download a phone from piratebay or technet. The fact i have to tell you i was kidding worries me ALOT

It worries me that you think a physical phone and it's OS are the same thing.

Colin McGregor said,

where did i say it was the same thing??

Well the article is about the OS being RTM and you said: "Ya i seriously thought i could download a phone from piratebay or technet" implying that you can't download hardware from the internet meaning that you think the Windows Phone 8 OS is a hardware phone.

PmRd said,

Well the article is about the OS being RTM and you said: "Ya i seriously thought i could download a phone from piratebay or technet" implying that you can't download hardware from the internet meaning that you think the Windows Phone 8 OS is a hardware phone.

ya your way off and the fact im still discussing a horrible joke means it went over your head. Im going to bed now.

Colin McGregor said,
Will it be on technet or piratebay?

Unless you're a skilled electrical engineer with embedded experience, it wouldn't do you any good.

I'm such a person and it would be worthless to me.... This is a non-trivial lump of stuff.

rfirth said,

It didn't sound like you thought you could download a phone. It sounded like you thought you could download the Windows Phone 8 OS... which likely will be possible in the future, but not for a few months and certainly not legally. And a download would be useless for all existing devices.

Never say never......