Windows Phone leader answers complaints about lack of new OS features

Last week, Microsoft started the slow process of updating a number of Windows Phone 8 smartphones with the new GDR2 firmware, which adds small features such as FM radio support. However, some owners of Windows Phone products are apparently not happy about what they believe is a lack of major new features since Windows Phone 8 launched in late 2012.

Some of those people have taken to Microsoft's support forums to complain. One thread in particular was started on Sunday by Tùng Hà, who said in part, "GDR2 is just a small update, I see no actual features with high demand from customer on this update. Things need to changed, OR, we'll leave this OS. Do something, Microsoft, before it's too late."

The thread generated a lot of votes and comments, and it was apparently enough to get the leader of the Windows Phone team at Microsoft, Joe Belfiore, to make a rare message board post on his own to address the issue. He assured the people on the forums that Microsoft was indeed listening to their comments but added that just adding new features to Windows Phone 8 is not that simple. He said:

 ... keep in mind the trick for us is balancing things that make EXISTING devices better for you, our enthusiast users, versus things that create new devices to sell to a broader audience. A lot of the work in GDR2 was around enabling new devices-- like the Lumia 1020, devices on Sprint, etc. so that we could keep growing the size of the WP ecosystem. We need to grow the number of people using WP so we get ISVs writing the apps, we get better/more accessories built, etc.

Belfiore also indicated that more new Windows Phone 8 features will be added later this year beyond the current GDR2 update and "still more after that."

Source: Microsoft via WMPoweruser.com | Image via Joe Belfiore

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I think what's hurting Windows Phone is the glacial pace of development. It just doesn't feel that Microsoft is serious about the phone business, and aren't investing development into it. At the same time companies like Nokia seem to be releasing new handsets every other week which - this in itself isn't bad because I guess the OS won't fragment like Android does, but because it's just saturating the market with more devices that need testing and will surely slow the rate at which companies like Nokia can push out updates to Windows Phone because of the amount of devices on which the update needs testing.

I honestly feel Microsoft need to invest some more development and somehow create a quicker release cycle - even if the updates are fairly small / trivial it gives the user the impression that development is very active, and it gives the enthusiast community (such as this) something to talk about, reasons to discuss and hype the product.

I mean what the hell was the deal with Windows Phone 7.8? I could not find concrete information anywhere on that in terms of when it was going to be available for my HTC Mozart - I ended up having to use a special utility that forced it to be installed (which did work) but trying to find dates, useful discussion and so forth from any official channels was nigh on impossible. As an enthusiast I wanted to know, I wanted an update to look forward to and try out. Of course I can't entirely blame Microsoft for that - HTC are also accountable, but really it just shows the entire 'ecosystem' Microsoft has with the vendors needs some work. IMHO.

MS doesn't have to do much for updating the Lumia's. Nokia is the one that has to prepare the firmware of the device for it. That MS often fixes a lot of device issues for Nokia/HTC/Huawei etc for them is a courtesy of MS mostly.
Last time devices bricked is because Samsung did not inform Microsoft about changing the chipset.

I have no issues knowing when, where and what devices get updates by following Nokia's facebook feeds. Its the OEM that should inform you about device updates, not Microsoft.
You deal with HTC, Nokia or others. They deal with Microsoft and the OS.
If I accidently buy rotten food in a grocery store, I'm not going to the brands themselves and complain, I go to the grocery store.

I've received the GDR1 update a few months ago (manual update) only, and I'm close to getting GDR2 and Nokia's firmware update.
Many of Nokia's features are continuously updated through appupdates. I've received some updates people thought are GDR2 updates.
For my pace its fast enough, I don't expect a point upgrade every few weeks.

The problem with WP is unless you are matching the features that other OS's have, then you will never get a good market share.

Do you think Ford would grow their car and truck business if they didn't add electric windows, ABS, MP3/USB/CD players? No. You need to match and exceed features which are already available on similar products to grow and develop.

I agree with the jist of this... I bought an Android phone because while I consider WP8 to be the best interface out there and for the most part the best phone OS, it IS lacking in a lot of features that I get out of the box with Android...

With Android I have to do a lot of configuration, turn off a lot of the auto-updating and push notifications, AND routinely kill all apps from the task list to make it run smoothly and get the battery to last thru the day... It has 1Gb RAM but seems to be using 800Mb of that most of the time (!!!!!!) My old HTC Trophy (WP7.1) would last 2 days between charges easy with no effort at all and ran slick and smooth by comparison

Edited by james.faction, Jul 24 2013, 2:32am :

Reading here it looks like Windows Phone people are mostly an unhappy and unsatisfied group. I am thinking about picking up a low end model to play with but I might give it a miss considering all the missing features.

I can understand why people would be frustrated feature wise. You would think that if you were playing catch up to at least include all the same features the competitors offer from the get go. However as far as overall numbers go, not sure why people think its going to be easy to beat Apple, they are the trend setter these days, kind of like where Microsoft was 15 years ago. Android is like the Windows of the mobile market any oem can make one and sell it regardless of version numbers, kind of hard to go up against that too. WP is maturing and Nokia is doing really well at helping. I will say I hope they will allow more social networks to integrate with the People hub, it would be nice to use my G+ on that as well and soon instagram to be integrated with the pictures hub.

Yes, this would have worked back in 2008 when there was no direct competition. But now that iOS and Android have duopoly, you can't be trailing behind like that.

GDR2 is a joke! FM Radio Support? WP7 had this but MS removed it only to add it as a feature in WP8 GDR2 and DataSense? This is not available to everyone especially unbranded phones so its pointless.

This also means that those millions of unbranded phones sold in Asian/European countries won't be getting it. I mean how hard is it to have a feature which will help in keeping track of mobile data especially when its not cheap.

Forgetting that they scrapped WP7 and started over. So things are being added back in time. This was known at release of WP8, even well before.

And wut, unbranded phones get updates.
Unbranded Galaxy ATIV s already received the GDR2 update.

What this directly means is that by taking this stance there is a good chance WP9 will be available only for new devices, as a measure of pushing more into the marketplace and getting more users, rather than upgrading existing ones, if that is the stance they are taking.

As an owner of a HTC 8X and Lumia 925 this doesn't make me happy.

Nilus said,
What this directly means is that by taking this stance there is a good chance WP9 will be available only for new devices, as a measure of pushing more into the marketplace and getting more users, rather than upgrading existing ones, if that is the stance they are taking.

As an owner of a HTC 8X and Lumia 925 this doesn't make me happy.


Ha. Ha. Ha.

Crimson Rain said,

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Risus abundat in ore stultorum

I am ready to bet, and I DO NOT have a problem with this, that my Lumia 920 will not be upgradable to W9.

Fritzly said,

Risus abundat in ore stultorum

I am ready to bet, and I DO NOT have a problem with this, that my Lumia 920 will not be upgradable to W9.


Either i'm getting you wrong or you didn't get me right.

My post was a disagreement to him.

Crimson Rain said,

Either i'm getting you wrong or you didn't get me right.

My post was a disagreement to him.

Well, I agree with him; I think, among other things based on my previous experience with MS "mobile: OSes since the Journada PDA, that I will not be able to upgrade my 920 to WP9. I tend to upgrade my devices once a year therefore if at the end of 2013 Nokia will have a successor of the 920 I might replace my actual one. The point is that the smartphones turnover is between one and two years; it is not like in the PC market where nowadays a device can be used for four or even five years, if you are not in gaming of course.

May be you have forgotten MS already said the point of moving to NT kernel and dropping all wp7 related codes is that they don't need to do it again.

I'm not so concerned with the pace as I am with the carriers actually releasing the updates for current phones. I really wish I could simply download the updates and apply them manually, without carrier interference.

I'm going to call it right now and predict my 920 will not get GDR3 from AT&T.

I've contacted Nokia about this and I suggest you and everyone do the same and complain why Navifirm is closed down.
When I contacted them they responded that there is a chance it will open up again.

Having an 8X for personal use and a S3 for business i can honestly say i prefer WP8 to Android.

Both are great systems but for me WP8 wins out. There's a few bits and bobs that need addressing but it's a coming!

pack34 said,
Holy crap, they are on a yearly release cycle just like everyone else.

Some people seems to think they should be pumping out new features every month.

pack34 said,
Holy crap, they are on a yearly release cycle just like everyone else.

Except they are still playing catch up compared to competition not only in Apps but in terms of core features so holy crap it makes sense for iOS and Android to be on that kind of cycle.

Crimson Rain said,

Some people seems to think they should be pumping out new features every month.

Some people seems to think that even if you are behind the others you do not need to push faster and harder to get the lead..... Thanks God MS did not have such attitude until WP.

Fritzly said,

Some people seems to think that even if you are behind the others you do not need to push faster and harder to get the lead..... Thanks God MS did not have such attitude until WP.


Yes and 9 women can make a baby in one month...

Crimson Rain said,

Yes and 9 women can make a baby in one month...

Talking about comparing apples with oranges......You cannot split an embrio in nine....
"Try it again Sam"

Uhm, people keep forgetting while they are releasing these smaller incremental updates, they are also working on WP8.1.
And that the problem might be that a lot of new functionality is planned for the 8.1 release and thus they are not releasing them with the GDR updates. If they keep releasing what they are working on with 8.1, what will 8.1 bring to the table

No notification center, no VPN, total lack of any real customization, impotent support.

It's no wonder wp8 is a complete failure, it will never compete with neither iOS or android, not even close.

Harsh much. I don't know why people insist that its a complete failure. I have had my WP since January and can't say enough good things about it. Sure its behind, but people seem to forget that Microsoft completely restarted their mobile strategy 3 years behind Apple. I don't ever expect Microsoft to be the Apple or Samsung of the market anymore, they just are not trendy enough right now. WP8 is growing, but when your up against Apple and Android its going
to be a steep climb.

Also to the total lack of customization, have you actually used Windows Phone? You do realize that the whole start screen is probably the most customizable out of any mobile os right now between tile size location and color. The only thing missing really is backgrounds, but thats not really needed since its on the lock screen.

Im guessing your just spewing what you have read on here rather than using the OS, been using it since January and haven't found much that I am missing.
Radio? Meh would be nice
Notification center, would help, but have my live tiles
SIri like system would be nice for in car use.
VPN never had the need, but could see the use for corporate

Also what is nice is that Nokia is doing a damn good job of building up the brand, and its nice to go into a store and see that all WP look and operate the same unlike Android with the OS fragmentation and different launchers.

Edited by wv@gt, Jul 23 2013, 5:56pm :

Wake me up when they finally support a proper VPN. Seriously, you would think that MS wasn't trying to sell their stuff to the corporate crowd AT ALL with the current feature set! INEXCUSABLE!

There has been a lot of upheaval for the Windows Phone team. They have now been moved away from one business unit, into a mega Windows team, as well as some big bugs that have caused a delay to Windows Phone 8.1

With more engineering resources, and possible merger of Windows Phone and Windows RT. They are obviously trying to stay quiet, and just finish the next updates.

But it is the silence, that is making people nervous, after the big architecture change from a Windows CE kernel, to a Windows NT one.

I understand the frustration among users about updates coming at a snail's pace. I also understand the frustration that the updates that are coming out, offer pretty much useless features. FM Radio support? Common.

But according to Joe B., he's saying a lot of the updates are dealing w/ the platform in general, and are more behind-the-scenes. So I can understand that mentality. I'm also hoping that means they are optimizing a lot of the code in the OS. Maybe these updates in the short-term (GDR2, GDR3) are just the OS optimizations to prepare for the new features in Blue, etc. It would make sense to develop that way, so that you could have all the back-end API, features there (and they will have been tested), then you put in the front-end later (Blue). It will make it easier for testing, as opposed to putting Back-end + Front-end all at the same time.

Totally agree!

People think it's so easy... but when you have such a broad range of devices and want to keep the OS running buttery smooth regardless of low or high specs, it's a lot of work.. especially when there's OEMs, carriers, and multiple parties involved too. I think these GDR updates are the beginning to something huge

There are tons of low hanging fruit items they could have integrated while 'growing the ecosystem'. WP8 is continuing WP7's critical failure to deliver features and polish in a reasonable timeframe.

j2006 said,
Totally agree!

People think it's so easy... but when you have such a broad range of devices and want to keep the OS running buttery smooth regardless of low or high specs, it's a lot of work.. especially when there's OEMs, carriers, and multiple parties involved too. I think these GDR updates are the beginning to something huge

It does not seem to be such an impossible ordeal for Windows OS using Windows update....... And the scenario with all its implications is exponentially bigger.

j2006 said,
Totally agree!

People think it's so easy... but when you have such a broad range of devices and want to keep the OS running buttery smooth regardless of low or high specs, it's a lot of work.. especially when there's OEMs, carriers, and multiple parties involved too. I think these GDR updates are the beginning to something huge

Exactly my thoughts!

Well, there are updates that I have known to not work on some computers and things like that. I do agree Microsoft does a rather good job with Windows Update, especially with its wider range of scenarios and what-not, but I do want to note that Windows Update doesn't go without hitches.

Microsoft is trying to avoid as many hitches as possible with Windows Phone. Remember how smoothly Mango was released across the entire WP7 platform? (Although, admittedly, that was a different architecture and had a smaller user base.) Of course, that's not to say hitches won't occur (or haven't occurred), but they seem rather dedicated about making sure it all works across the board.

That commenter is such a baby lol. He should go jump onto some other platform and see how fast they add features too. I love how entitled people think they are.

WP is the fast-growing platform for a reason. People are in this 'me + now' mindset and it boggles me. I'd rather they take their time and do things right than rush and cause a big mess. I'm sure things will move much quicker now under the new restructuring. :-)

Yes Apple is held to a different Standard as they are often the ones looked at for new features. Consumers always look at Apple as the leader of the pack regardless of how often they update. They are a trend leader per say. Most new WP users will compare features to what Apple has.

I don't understand why Microsoft is held to a different standard than iOS or Android. iOS hasn't had any major update in years, since Siri... and Android... they update a lot but nothing major either.

Because Windows Phone is still far behind iOS and Android. I've owned several since 2010, I know. The iOS update cycle is fine if your OS is three years more mature than the competition. But if you're already 3 years behind, you need to iterate faster than your competitor. Not at the same pace. Otherwise, you'll never catch up, and that's exactly what has happened/is still happening with Windows Phone.

Microsoft is playing Windows Phone in a way that makes me wonder what they are doing over there in Redmond.

For instance, having to add support for Sprint in GDR2? So they completely scrapped all the code they added to WP7 to enable CDMA support in NoDo? The list of regressions is what seems to be killing them more than anything.

I mean what is going on over there? Why are there so many major regressions? Why aren't they addressing customer needs in a balanced approach (making sure 1 or 2 major needs are addressed in every update, at least).

Everyone loves updates, but if they offer you no tangible benefits people start to lose interest in them. They have to minimize regressions and be sure to have something to delight users in each update.

tl;dr: Windows Phone regressions seem to be killing the team in Redmond.

I feel bad for Joe.

I feel like something is holding them up because they are traditionally a team that moves fast. I've heard they discovered a bug or carriers are making requests which are slowing them down. Either way, they hit a bump and need to pick it up to get back up to speed.

I really hope they get resources from the reorg get back up to speed.

I don't understand the direction Windows Phone is taking. 3 years ago I had 1Gb RAM on my newly launched Windows Phone 7. The phone would not be updated to Windows Phone 8 because of "hardware limitations". bullsjit.

Fast forward 3 years... loads of Windows Phone 8 devices are launching with a miserable 512Mb RAM to catch the low end market. This is a big mistake in my opinion. It will cause headaches and fragmentation in the Windows Phone ecosystem that will haunt the OS for years to come. It will restrict development of features in the OS just to make the OS run on the low end phones with limited memory.

C#Rocks said,
I don't understand the direction Windows Phone is taking. 3 years ago I had 1Gb RAM on my newly launched Windows Phone 7. The phone would not be updated to Windows Phone 8 because of "hardware limitations". bullsjit.

Fast forward 3 years... loads of Windows Phone 8 devices are launching with a miserable 512Mb RAM to catch the low end market. This is a big mistake in my opinion. It will cause headaches and fragmentation in the Windows Phone ecosystem that will haunt the OS for years to come. It will restrict development of features in the OS just to make the OS run on the low end phones with limited memory.

99% of apps & games run on 512MB devices, calm down dear. Also the CE vs NT kernel update had nothing to do with RAM, the NT kernel requires a minimum of a dual core.

C#Rocks said,
I don't understand the direction Windows Phone is taking. 3 years ago I had 1Gb RAM on my newly launched Windows Phone 7. The phone would not be updated to Windows Phone 8 because of "hardware limitations". bullsjit.

Fast forward 3 years... loads of Windows Phone 8 devices are launching with a miserable 512Mb RAM to catch the low end market. This is a big mistake in my opinion. It will cause headaches and fragmentation in the Windows Phone ecosystem that will haunt the OS for years to come. It will restrict development of features in the OS just to make the OS run on the low end phones with limited memory.

WP7 devices weren't upgradable because of fundamental changes to the OS's kernel.

It's actually the low-end devices that most consumers jump on. I'm (surprisingly) seeing a lot more people with Windows Phones here in my small town, but they are the much cheaper versions... whereas I have the Nokia 920 lol. You have to cater to all audiences, and that's what they are doing. That's the beauty of WP, it works buttery smooth regardless how low or high the specs are. :-)

I am as cool as ever dude I love the OS and want the best for it, that's all.

My point is... 3 years ago we had 1 Gb RAM by default. After 3 years we're going down to 512Mb. Is RAM that expensive ? How much could 512Mb RAM cost ?

C#Rocks said,
I am as cool as ever dude I love the OS and want the best for it, that's all.

My point is... 3 years ago we had 1 Gb RAM by default. After 3 years we're going down to 512Mb. Is RAM that expensive ? How much could 512Mb RAM cost ?

Put it this way, they had to make a special version of WP7 for the Lumia (600?) that only had 256MB RAM, not THAT was crippling and ridiculous. The fact that "3 years later" the minimum has become 512 on cheap devices is great. Now even people that want a cheap smartphone don't have to worry about a crippled experience as all the apps work where as doing that on 256MB just wasn't doable. There's also no more need for a special version of WP, it's all the same with WP8.

Dot Matrix said,

WP7 devices weren't upgradable because of fundamental changes to the OS's kernel.

Change "Kernel" with marketing and economics...... Technically it would have been possible to have WP7 devices run WP8. They even had WP8 running on an HD2.

Granted Windows Phone 8 running on 512Mb RAM is great. But I think in terms of developers, not in terms of end users. Now let's for sake of the argument assume that 80%+ of the Windows Phones are running on 512Mb RAM. Market is already small as it is. Imagine I'm a game developer interested in porting a game to Windows Phone. I have a look at the market and see that most WP8 devices are running on 512Mb RAM. My game cannot run on such low specs. There is no way I am going to take the hassle to port the game for that small fraction of market that is running on 1Gb+ RAM on their mobiles. My argument is not far fetched. Even the newly released Fresh Paint developed my Microsoft itself cannot run on 512Mb RAM. Gaming is lagging sorely in the WP8 platform.

Fritzly said,

Change "Kernel" with marketing and economics...... Technically it would have been possible to have WP7 devices run WP8. They even had WP8 running on an HD2.


No it wouldn't have. NT can't run on that old ARM. Its the chipsets that lack features that NT needs to run smooth. If the basic requirements in the chipsets aren't there for NT, NT will run but the experience will be much more horrible then continuing to run CE.

I do not think @Joe is the right man to head the Windows Phone division. You have a OS that have a really small market share compared to Android and iOS...you have Nokia that is delivering its end of the deal by innovating in the hardware and apps space at a fast pace, yet you have a Windows Phone division that has yet to update its OS and moving at a really slow pace. This is frustrating. DataSense? Who cares about DataSense or Kids Corner with all the issue and basic features missing from WP? WP needs some real UI changes and enhancements, enough with this Live Tiles talking-point bs. Who cares about Live-Tiles or some huge tile updating in the background but you have only have so many visible on screen at once? Nobody... WP should be moving at a breathe-taking pace, like a start-up...as they promised...and not like a huge big old elephant that take a whole year to update their software. @Joe needs to go!!! Android isn't were it is because of some bias against MS...it's a good OS...they copied the best feature from WP and iOS and released updates to the OS at a fast pace...no one care that they copied as long as all the features were there and were being constantly updated. This in turn encourage ppl to buy the OS caused ppl believe that the OS would constantly be updated. That's the whole idea. These folks are sinking MS to the ground...

This is exactly why I did not get a Windows Phone, Microsoft was under pressure, they moved thousands of people to work on Windows Phone 7 and 8, then they completed what was in the design paper, and the resources were moved to the next project somewhere else.

It happened before, it is happening today, and will continue to happen at Microsoft.

Things are much different at Google, Samsung…

I hate this model they seem to adopt.

john.smith_2084 said,
This is exactly why I did not get a Windows Phone, Microsoft was under pressure, they moved thousands of people to work on Windows Phone 7 and 8, then they completed what was in the design paper, and the resources were moved to the next project somewhere else.

It happened before, it is happening today, and will continue to happen at Microsoft.

Things are much different at Google, Samsung…

john.smith_2084 said,
This is exactly why I did not get a Windows Phone, Microsoft was under pressure, they moved thousands of people to work on Windows Phone 7 and 8, then they completed what was in the design paper, and the resources were moved to the next project somewhere else.

It happened before, it is happening today, and will continue to happen at Microsoft.

Things are much different at Google, Samsung…

Err, none of those things is true.

The WP or WM team did get more resources to move from CE to NT from the NT folks though. But not nearly the magnitudes OP claims.
Development teams in MS are quite stable. Guess who are working on 8.1, its the former Windows Service Pack team.

Dot Matrix said,
This isn't Android. Windows Phone doesn't need feature creep.
Thank God there are options in the mobile OS world, because WP definitely lacks features for me, as a power user. For the average consumer, it's good (outside of the app. ecosystem). If MS wants more consumers, they'll have to pay more developers to create apps, and add functionality that's missing from the OS included in other mobile OS's. Otherwise, they just can't compete.

Yes, like being able to create and edit a playlist on the phone, or being able to directly attach anything other than a picture to an email, no one needs that.....

efjay said,
Yes, like being able to create and edit a playlist on the phone, or being able to directly attach anything other than a picture to an email, no one needs that.....

You can attach files to an email, for example, in the Word app, goto Share -> and choose the email account you'd like to send from. I can also share to an e-mail from a few other apps as well.

Additionally, I can create music playlists in Nokia Music. So, the functionality is there.

Edited by Dot Matrix, Jul 23 2013, 4:13pm :

Dot Matrix said,

You can attach files to an email, for example, in the Word app, goto Share -> and choose the email account you'd like to send from. I can also share to an e-mail from a few other apps as well.

That way may work for you, but can get to be a PITA and not very friendly.

Dot Matrix said,

You can attach files to an email, for example, in the Word app, goto Share -> and choose the email account you'd like to send from. I can also share to an e-mail from a few other apps as well.

I haven't used WP8, but what if I'm typing an email and want to attach a Word doc, then an Excel file? In such a scenario, doing it your way would be a pain, if even possible.

We should be able to attach basic filetypes easily, without sharing from the app itself.

efjay said,
Yes, like being able to create and edit a playlist on the phone.

Surely that's an app issue, not an OS issue though?

Dot Matrix said,

You can attach files to an email, for example, in the Word app, goto Share -> and choose the email account you'd like to send from. I can also share to an e-mail from a few other apps as well.

Additionally, I can create music playlists in Nokia Music. So, the functionality is there.

Quite convolute, isn't it?

Dot Matrix said,

Additionally, I can create music playlists in Nokia Music. So, the functionality is there.

Well, the issue is, what about non-Nokia WP8 phones? Admittedly, finding a non-Nokia WP8 phone is rather rare, so that issue isn't much of an issue

The only thing I need is the notification center. It is annoying having to hunt for what made my phone bing. Live tiles don't update all the time .

majortom1981 said,
The only thing I need is the notification center. It is annoying having to hunt for what made my phone bing. Live tiles don't update all the time .

If an app is giving a notification and not updating the live tile, blame the designer.

Crimson Rain said,

If an app is giving a notification and not updating the live tile, blame the designer.

What about the entity that certified the app to be in the marketplace?

Fritzly said,

What about the entity that certified the app to be in the marketplace?


It is not a requirement. What next? The app design does not follow metro, so it should not be certified?

Fritzly said,

What about the entity that certified the app to be in the marketplace?

Microsoft just verify that apps comply with their rules, they don't rate them for quality. Don't blame MS for poorly coded apps.

Great I was never a first adopter of iPhone, my first was the iPhone 3 but I wonder what it was like for those people, probably less than us WP8 users since iOS brought features to smartphones whereas WP8 actually lacks existing features of the competitors.

Neobond said,
Great I was never a first adopter of iPhone, my first was the iPhone 3 but I wonder what it was like for those people, probably less than us WP8 users since iOS brought features to smartphones whereas WP8 actually lacks existing features of the competitors.

WP brought a lot of features to smart phones that weren't in other OS's previously too... It's a balance. But it's by no means one sided...

Neobond said,
Great I was never a first adopter of iPhone, my first was the iPhone 3 but I wonder what it was like for those people, probably less than us WP8 users since iOS brought features to smartphones whereas WP8 actually lacks existing features of the competitors.

The instant camera features in iOS/Android only followed after EVERY WindowsPhone device had it.
WP lacks features? Yes. But Windows Phone and Nokia have certainly brought invention to the table with their phones!
I'd even go far enough to say the Lumias' colourful exteriors are as iconic as the iPhone design back then...

I was the first person I knew to get an Android phone, nobody I showed it to had ever heard of it, of course now all those people have Androids - while I've moved to WP. So I know what it's like being an early adopter. Android has improved leaps and bounds and while WP feels a bit like the early days of Android app wise, usability wise it's so far ahead (and the reason I've chosen to move to WP). Sure it can be frustrating sometimes, some apps aren't there, some things are a bit fiddly, but I'd rather have this than the mess that's Android and I'm confident it'll pay off next year.

Rather have a WP that will be great than an Android that I don't see any future in, after all I'll have this phone for at least two years.

Neobond said,
Great I was never a first adopter of iPhone, my first was the iPhone 3 but I wonder what it was like for those people, probably less than us WP8 users since iOS brought features to smartphones whereas WP8 actually lacks existing features of the competitors.

From what I remember, the original iPhone/iOS was missing a ton of basic features that regular phones had had for years.

I can say the same for WP7/8 right now too (well maybe not a ton, but they are still playing catch-up, and not just with the amount of apps).

My biggest gripe is that I still can't get my phone to go into silent mode at a given time.

That is just a super basic feature, and has been available everywhere else for... decades?

TCLN Ryster said,

There was never an iPhone 3


Technically there is a iPhone 3 because there was no other phone between the iPhone 2G and the 3GS.. The 3G is the 3rd iPhone. Being picky about the name is just semantics..

statm1 said,

Technically there is a iPhone 3 because there was no other phone between the iPhone 2G and the 3GS.. The 3G is the 3rd iPhone. Being picky about the name is just semantics..

No. You seem to be getting confused. The 3G was the 2nd iPhone, it came after the original iPhone (what you refer to as 2G). It didn't magically become the 3rd iPhone just because it had a 3 in the name. The 3 was for 3G not 3rd. The 3GS was the 3rd iPhone, the iPhone 4 followed.

By all accounts, the only numerically named iPhone that was named correctly was the 4. It was called the iPhone 4 because it was the 4th iPhone. The iPhone 5 should've been the iPhone 6 as it was the 6th. And don't tell me it was 5 because the "S" models don't deserve full version number increments, because that then invalidates the naming of iPhone 4.

And yes, I'm over thinking this.

Edited by Ryster, Jul 23 2013, 10:11pm :

M_Lyons10 said,

WP brought a lot of features to smart phones that weren't in other OS's previously too...

Like what? Live tiles? Not exactly a "feature" just a new design.

"Things need to change OR..."

LOL! What is this, kindergarten? If I don't get my lollipop I'll cry.

Thing is, there are other OS's out there, Android, Symbian, iOS etc, don't like it? Move to another OS. This pre-puberty mentality "I dont like it and I'll switch" won't make MS move any faster, they are right to update the OS so new devices will be made and more market would be covered.

Let them. No one's holding them back. I switched from WP the same reason, the OS seemed flat out boring after a while but making statements like "OR ELSE" belongs to kindergarten level.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
Let them. No one's holding them back. I switched from WP the same reason, the OS seemed flat out boring after a while but making statements like "OR ELSE" belongs to kindergarten level.

Sometimes the people saying "or else", hold a lot of weight.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
"Things need to change OR..."

LOL! What is this, kindergarten? If I don't get my lollipop I'll cry.

Thing is, there are other OS's out there, Android, Symbian, iOS etc, don't like it? Move to another OS. This pre-puberty mentality "I dont like it and I'll switch" won't make MS move any faster, they are right to update the OS so new devices will be made and more market would be covered.

Why 10 years old are commenting on this form?

techbeck said,

Sometimes the people saying "or else", hold a lot of weight.

Keep in mind, this (and microsoft forums) is an tech site, of course people are missing a lot of features like VPN and what not but an average user is not missing it and believe it or not they are the majority not us and MS is doing everything to catch them first, can't really blame them for that.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,

Keep in mind, this (and microsoft forums) is an tech site, of course people are missing a lot of features like VPN and what not but an average user is not missing it and believe it or not they are the majority not us and MS is doing everything to catch them first, can't really blame them for that.

I agree, and it takes time. People are just expressing why they will not go WP. I remember when Android started out not to long ago...was missing many common features as well. I am sure WP will eventually get there. Just a mater of how long it takes.

That's what I was trying to say at first, maybe a bit rough on the words but that's what I meant. Regular Joe is MS's first priority with WP not techies. They'll get there with "Blue" I believe but till then GDR2 and GDR3 will be more for optimizing for new hardware.

Nokia has been pumping out low-end devices for a while now and by the news I've seen they are selling better than the high-end, that already shows WP is more acceptable for regular people, maybe exactly because it's missing the features but they'll come eventually and hopefully it won't be too late for MS by that time.

Now we also have to accept that while Android has thousands of OEM's WP only has 1 and a half. Why am I saying it like that? Because HTC is just half-arsing on WP and Samsung is just standing still. Huawei...can't really comment on them as I know nothing about their WP phones.

Well, he replied cos the guy said "OR ELSE" so it worked.

WP is great, but it hasn't reached it's potential yet and for a lot of people Android or iOS could be better right now. If MS can get some updates out soon that however won't be the case. If I needed a new phone right now I'd probably still get a WP cos I reckon in 6 months it'll be better than iOS or Android and i'm patient, but for many people it's better to go with the competition.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
Let them. No one's holding them back. I switched from WP the same reason, the OS seemed flat out boring after a while but making statements like "OR ELSE" belongs to kindergarten level.
LOL. Under whose imaginary authority are you "letting" consumers choose a product that better serves their needs?

Blame and insult your customers seems to be the constant mantra of posters defending failing MS products.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
"Things need to change OR..."

LOL! What is this, kindergarten? If I don't get my lollipop I'll cry.

Thing is, there are other OS's out there, Android, Symbian, iOS etc, don't like it? Move to another OS. This pre-puberty mentality "I dont like it and I'll switch" won't make MS move any faster, they are right to update the OS so new devices will be made and more market would be covered.

Tthe default music player is the most annoying piece of app ever written. It simply doesn't have seek bar. WHY? These small niggles deter from overall experience.

It should not be that hard to just have that damn seek bar there but Microsoft has to be arrogant about it. My Lumia 520 became a backup phone simply for that reason.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
"Things need to change OR..."

LOL! What is this, kindergarten? If I don't get my lollipop I'll cry.

No, customers do not cry........ they open and close their wallet......... big difference.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,

Keep in mind, this (and microsoft forums) is an tech site, of course people are missing a lot of features like VPN and what not but an average user is not missing it and believe it or not they are the majority not us and MS is doing everything to catch them first, can't really blame them for that.

Regrettably you are wrong; one of the more common complaints I hear about WP, comments made by average users, are about things like, for example, separate volume controls or customizable background; hardly something in the reach of geeks only.

Then close your wallet and stop threatening.

He could as easily write all the stuff he did and leave out the "or else" part. Want to leave? Do it, like I said before, no one is holding you back. He is registered in MS forums but doesn't know that GDR2 wasn't even supposed to bring any major upgrades? Yeah, just a whiny little brat.

I've heard people complain over mp3 ringtones but never have I heard anyone complain about customizable background (I guess you're talking about the tiles background since you can easily swap the lockscreen one).

Edited by uMadRabbit, Jul 23 2013, 8:58pm :

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
Then close your wallet and stop threatening.

He could as easily write all the stuff he did and leave out the "or else" part. Want to leave? Do it, like I said before, no one is holding you back. He is registered in MS forums but doesn't know that GDR2 wasn't even supposed to bring any major upgrades? Yeah, just a whiny little brat.

I've heard people complain over mp3 ringtones but never have I heard anyone complain about customizable background (I guess you're talking about the tiles background since you can easily swap the lockscreen one).

The tones of your posts would make you an excellent politician but an horrendous CEO.
Customers have all the right to manifest their displeasure or dissatisfaction and let the company know that if things do not change they will put their money somewhere else. It is up to personal perception.... and ego to see it as a threat.
Yes I am talking about startscreen/tiles background; BTW the same functionality that has just been added to w8.1. Although I had never considered a top priority I have no problems to admit that it greatly improves the experience of using the OS.

Uhh, would love to be an politician, damn that cash pile..mmm.

On a serious note though. Sure, like I said before, people should express their dissatisfaction about a product but that guy we're talking about is just threatening MS, do something, or else. This is not the right way to do it.

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
Uhh, would love to be an politician, damn that cash pile..mmm.

On a serious note though. Sure, like I said before, people should express their dissatisfaction about a product but that guy we're talking about is just threatening MS, do something, or else. This is not the right way to do it.

Isn't it the same reason why we all would love to be a politician?
Seriously speaking, Classic Coke was reintroduced after people complained, and di not buy the New Coke........

alwaysonacoffebreak said,
Then close your wallet and stop threatening.
And out comes the truth: he wants us to shut up because we're saying mean things about the products he has some irrational hang up over.