Gigabit Router Network Help

[Ruti]

Hello everyone!,

 

Just got a NETGEAR Nighthawk R6700-100NAS AC1750 on cybermonday for USD$70, a deal i couldn't miss, just one of my devices supports gigabit, but i can buy a usb3 gigabit adapter.

 

The only use i might use gigabit speeds for is Steam In Home Streaming, since i got a projector set up on the living room.

 

This is my network set up right now, since my powerlines are 500mbs, where should i place the gigabit router to get the most speed and best latency between the gaming pc and broken laptop? or should i use wirelessAC instead of Tplink500MB Powerline?

 

Its the first time i mess with gigabit, and im no expert in this.

 

 

 

 

Any comments or advices are welcomed!

 

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Ruti

[Ruti]

seems lonely here. Rip tread

[+BudMan MVC]

Well if you placed the gig switch where you wrtg is and connected your powerline into the switch and your PC into the switch.. Then connect your wrt54g into the switch that should give you what your powerlines can do between your laptop and your PC.

 

What I would do is test with iperf now between your pc and your laptop now, and then after you make the change.  But looks like your pc is wireless currently.  And only G??  So that would SUCK!!!  What does your PC support for wireless?

 

How many other wireless devices do you have?  And what are their wifi speeds?  Do they support N or AC?  What is your tplink router support for wifi? 

[Ruti]

33 minutes ago, BudMan said:

Well if you placed the gig switch where you wrtg is and connected your powerline into the switch and your PC into the switch.. Then connect your wrt54g into the switch that should give you what your powerlines can do between your laptop and your PC.

 

What I would do is test with iperf now between your pc and your laptop now, and then after you make the change.  But looks like your pc is wireless currently.  And only G??  So that would SUCK!!!  What does your PC support for wireless?

 

How many other wireless devices do you have?  And what are their wifi speeds?  Do they support N or AC?  What is your tplink router support for wifi? 

Thank you for your answer!,

 

Wireless Just 2 phones and a surface pro 1, i think they support wireless N, but my internet is kinda slow to take advantage of faster transfer.

 

would you recommend an Gigabit usb adapter for the laptop or a usb wireless ac one? the powerline would limit the transfer to 500mbs but wireless ac could reach 1,300mbs?

[adrynalyne]

2 minutes ago, Ruti said:

Thank you for your answer!,

 

Wireless Just 2 phones and a surface pro 1, i think they support wireless N, but my internet is kinda slow to take advantage of faster transfer.

 

would you recommend an Gigabit usb adapter for the laptop or a usb wireless ac one? the powerline would limit the transfer to 500mbs but wireless ac could reach 1,300mbs?

Do you have any AC devices that can even connect that fast? Many do not. Also, I'd be willing to bet power line adapter at the slower connection speed will have a higher actual throughput, which is more important. That all depends on your wiring of course and how far away you will be from an AP.

[Ruti]

20 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Do you have any AC devices that can even connect that fast? Many do not. Also, I'd be willing to bet power line adapter at the slower connection speed will have a higher actual throughput, which is more important. That all depends on your wiring of course and how far away you will be from an AP.

My house is not that big 200m i believe, but i dont have any device with ac, those powerlines would be able to reach 500mbs if connected with gigabit?? dont know if the transfer would be limited to 100mbs between powerlines. nowadays im just getting 8mb/s in steam inhouse streaming.

 

Thank you for your answer!.

[+BudMan MVC]

"but wireless ac could reach 1,300mbs?"

 

No it can't not in real world speeds.. That is the PHY!! with 3 steams..  so even if you have 3 stream devices and 3 stream router do a /2 for realistic speed, then if wireless to wireless /2 again.

 

But more like 2 streams, so your at 867 max PHY so /2 your in the 400's best possible you would see.

 

If what you want is speed between your laptop and pc the best would be gig to a gig switch..  I doubt your 500mbps powerlines actually can do 500.. And prob that is shared between all the powerlines you have connected to each other, etc.  What is the physical speed of the nic on your 500 powerline - bet you its 100mbps anyway.

 

If its gig interface then your best possible speed would be this

 

laptop - nic - gig - powerline apt --- powerlines --- powerline apt -- gig switch -- gig nic -- pc

 

If the phy interface on the adapters is 100mbps - the prob do better wireless...  Lets say you have 2 stream adapters doing AC..  That puts you at 867 /2 or 430.. then /2 again for wireless to wireless you would be at 200ish..  If your interfaces on your adapters are 100mbps the best you could do is say mid 90mbps..

 

For best possible speeds you want gig physical on everything.. For wifi AC best would be if one side is wire..  So then you should be able to do in the 400's  or real close to it.  Gig wire to wire you can see 900's mbps.

[Ruti]

6 hours ago, BudMan said:

"but wireless ac could reach 1,300mbs?"

 

No it can't not in real world speeds.. That is the PHY!! with 3 steams..  so even if you have 3 stream devices and 3 stream router do a /2 for realistic speed, then if wireless to wireless /2 again.

 

But more like 2 streams, so your at 867 max PHY so /2 your in the 400's best possible you would see.

 

If what you want is speed between your laptop and pc the best would be gig to a gig switch..  I doubt your 500mbps powerlines actually can do 500.. And prob that is shared between all the powerlines you have connected to each other, etc.  What is the physical speed of the nic on your 500 powerline - bet you its 100mbps anyway.

 

If its gig interface then your best possible speed would be this

 

laptop - nic - gig - powerline apt --- powerlines --- powerline apt -- gig switch -- gig nic -- pc

 

If the phy interface on the adapters is 100mbps - the prob do better wireless...  Lets say you have 2 stream adapters doing AC..  That puts you at 867 /2 or 430.. then /2 again for wireless to wireless you would be at 200ish..  If your interfaces on your adapters are 100mbps the best you could do is say mid 90mbps..

 

For best possible speeds you want gig physical on everything.. For wifi AC best would be if one side is wire..  So then you should be able to do in the 400's  or real close to it.  Gig wire to wire you can see 900's mbps.

Dayum 900 mbps sounds really nice, but powerlines are the real bottleneck then, i guess 400's should be ok for steam IHS and would require te less investment to set up.

[+BudMan MVC]

So these are the specific powerline adapters you have?

 

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/cat-18_TL-PA4010.html#specifications

 

They only have 100mbps interfaces... So how and the F could they possible do 500   Just because they call them AV 500s -- marketing BS!!!

 

Its like the wifi routers that that list 300mbps wifi.. But they only have 100mbps interfaces..  So to what could you possible even get half of the PHY of the 300 they report the best you get with that is about 90ish..

 

Yeah wire is going to always be best!

 

So that is from my pc to OLD work laptop fired up..

 

With your powerline adapters only having 100mbps interfaces.. The best you could is mid 90's.. Gig switch is not going to get you anything with use of those powerline.. You need some that have gig interfaces and are rated for gig, etc..  So if you connected what your pulling from with a wire at gig..  And then used AC wireless with 2x2 and 80mhz channels.. If you have to run 40mhz because your area is noisy with wifi your talking best PHY with short guard is 400mbps PHY so for real world rough do /2.. So you would be lucky to see in the 200's

 

Until you see 802.11ad in real world your not going to see wifi compete with a wire for actual speeds..  Just not there..  No matter how big of number they put on the box combining both bands PHY to come up with a high number like 1750, etc.  This is all just pure marketing hype!!  By time you see the speeds that 802.11ad promises would hope to see 802.3bz in the wired world where you can run 2.5ge over 5e and 5gig over cat 6 and even possible over some cat 5e setups.

 

I don't see how anyone would still be using 100mbps to be honest..  Moving a file at those speeds like watch a pot come to a boil or paint dry.. Grass growing - you get me hehehe

 

So what are you wifi clients?  N, AC?  What is your internet speed from your isp?  Unless you have some N/AC clients and you have faster then your current wifi speeds for internet.  I don't see you seeing much speed improvements..  Well your wrt54g best you could ever see with that in real world would be say 23mbps...  So as long as you have N or AC clients you will way faster than that.. But with your powerlines limiting you to max of 90's that would be the best you could hope for even with AC clients, etc.

 

[Ruti]

1 hour ago, BudMan said:

So these are the specific powerline adapters you have?

 

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/cat-18_TL-PA4010.html#specifications

 

They only have 100mbps interfaces... So how and the F could they possible do 500   Just because they call them AV 500s -- marketing BS!!!

 

Its like the wifi routers that that list 300mbps wifi.. But they only have 100mbps interfaces..  So to what could you possible even get half of the PHY of the 300 they report the best you get with that is about 90ish..

 

Yeah wire is going to always be best!

 

So that is from my pc to OLD work laptop fired up..

 

With your powerline adapters only having 100mbps interfaces.. The best you could is mid 90's.. Gig switch is not going to get you anything with use of those powerline.. You need some that have gig interfaces and are rated for gig, etc..  So if you connected what your pulling from with a wire at gig..  And then used AC wireless with 2x2 and 80mhz channels.. If you have to run 40mhz because your area is noisy with wifi your talking best PHY with short guard is 400mbps PHY so for real world rough do /2.. So you would be lucky to see in the 200's

 

Until you see 802.11ad in real world your not going to see wifi compete with a wire for actual speeds..  Just not there..  No matter how big of number they put on the box combining both bands PHY to come up with a high number like 1750, etc.  This is all just pure marketing hype!!  By time you see the speeds that 802.11ad promises would hope to see 802.3bz in the wired world where you can run 2.5ge over 5e and 5gig over cat 6 and even possible over some cat 5e setups.

 

I don't see how anyone would still be using 100mbps to be honest..  Moving a file at those speeds like watch a pot come to a boil or paint dry.. Grass growing - you get me hehehe

 

So what are you wifi clients?  N, AC?  What is your internet speed from your isp?  Unless you have some N/AC clients and you have faster then your current wifi speeds for internet.  I don't see you seeing much speed improvements..  Well your wrt54g best you could ever see with that in real world would be say 23mbps...  So as long as you have N or AC clients you will way faster than that.. But with your powerlines limiting you to max of 90's that would be the best you could hope for even with AC clients, etc.

 

God Dammit, is there a powerline that could "Really" reach GigaBit speeds? My internet its crap, free 5mb/s from work, the only use i might need for those speeds is steam In home streaming but im starting to think that gigabit router is overkill for my network set up.

 

*drolls over that screenshot*

[adrynalyne]

3 minutes ago, Ruti said:

God Dammit, is there a powerline that could "Really" reach GigaBit speeds? My internet its crap, free 5mb/s from work, the only use i might need for those speeds is steam In home streaming but im starting to think that gigabit router is overkill for my network set up.

 

*drolls over that screenshot*

The speed offered by power line is more than suitable for in home streaming. Not even 4K streaming will use that much. 

[Ruti]

43 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

The speed offered by power line is more than suitable for in home streaming. Not even 4K streaming will use that much. 

Really?, hmm i don't get it why i'm seeing such poor performance while streaming to Steam IHS, slow network appears now and then. 

 

QOS might help?, don't know how that works. Could a firewall mess with it?

Edited December 1, 2016 by Ruti

[+BudMan MVC]

well are you streaming over wifi?   That wrt54g at best with one side wired could only do 23 max.. normal would be say 18-21 good..

 

But as adrynalyne stated 100mbps or 90ish that is the best you can see with 100mbps interfaces would be more than enough to stream 4k..

 

If you only have 5mbps internet, then yeah the AC/gig router is prob overkill for your internet connection - but for your internal network as long as you have N and or AC clients then you could see a drastic bump for wifi from your g network to maxing out your 100mbps powerline adapter connections.  So vs seeing 20's you should see in the 80-95 range wifi to wired.

 

If your having streaming issues first thing I would suggest you do is validate for sure what speeds you are seeing.  You can grab iperf.. I compile it for windows whenever a new version comes out.  There is a thread where I update when new version is out.  The last one I did was 3.1.4 which is current - you can find all the versions here http://files.budman.pw

 

Then on say your laptop just run

iperf3 -s

Then on your pc run

iperf3 -c ipaddressoflaptop

 

This will run a 10 second test and give you output sim to what I posted above.  This will give you an idea of the max your network can do..  Run that a few times make sure its stable speeds, etc. if that is decent and more than enough for what your streaming..  Are you streaming HD, 720 or 1080?  What is the source bitrate?  Are you transcoding it on the fly or doing a direct play stream without any transcoding, etc.  And we can work out where your streaming problem is.

[Ruti]

19 minutes ago, BudMan said:

well are you streaming over wifi?   That wrt54g at best with one side wired could only do 23 max.. normal would be say 18-21 good..

 

But as adrynalyne stated 100mbps or 90ish that is the best you can see with 100mbps interfaces would be more than enough to stream 4k..

 

If you only have 5mbps internet, then yeah the AC/gig router is prob overkill for your internet connection - but for your internal network as long as you have N and or AC clients then you could see a drastic bump for wifi from your g network to maxing out your 100mbps powerline adapter connections.  So vs seeing 20's you should see in the 80-95 range wifi to wired.

 

If your having streaming issues first thing I would suggest you do is validate for sure what speeds you are seeing.  You can grab iperf.. I compile it for windows whenever a new version comes out.  There is a thread where I update when new version is out.  The last one I did was 3.1.4 which is current - you can find all the versions here http://files.budman.pw

 

Then on say your laptop just run

iperf3 -s

Then on your pc run

iperf3 -c ipaddressoflaptop

 

This will run a 10 second test and give you output sim to what I posted above.  This will give you an idea of the max your network can do..  Run that a few times make sure its stable speeds, etc. if that is decent and more than enough for what your streaming..  Are you streaming HD, 720 or 1080?  What is the source bitrate?  Are you transcoding it on the fly or doing a direct play stream without any transcoding, etc.  And we can work out where your streaming problem is.

Thank you!, will test as soon i get home. I was messing with steam settings and i got 100mb/s speeds for a few mins, then the stream crashed and got 8mb/s speeds again. Was streaming at 720@60 Hardware encoding gtx970 and decoding Intel igpu.

[+BudMan MVC]

From your drawing it would not be possible to get 100mbps.. The MAX a 100mbps interface can do is going to be something in the high 80's to say high 90's like 97..  Its just not possible to see actual 100mbps on a 100mbps interface..  just like you can not really see 10 on a 10, or gig on a gig..

 

Now if your wireless AC to wireless AC.. ok maybe.  what was connection path when you saw 100?

 

So you were transcoding on the fly then?? 

[Ruti]

1 hour ago, BudMan said:

From your drawing it would not be possible to get 100mbps.. The MAX a 100mbps interface can do is going to be something in the high 80's to say high 90's like 97..  Its just not possible to see actual 100mbps on a 100mbps interface..  just like you can not really see 10 on a 10, or gig on a gig..

 

Now if your wireless AC to wireless AC.. ok maybe.  what was connection path when you saw 100?

 

So you were transcoding on the fly then?? 

Heres a screenshot of the stats of Steam IHS, Estimated Badnwidth 3mbs/ the max ive seen it go is like 8mbs ethernet connected directly trough powerline

 

will do iperf when i get home

Edited December 1, 2016 by Ruti

[Ruti]

Iperf Result, My speeds are worst than i though

[+BudMan MVC]

yeah thats about right for G wifi network..

[Ruti]

3 hours ago, BudMan said:

yeah thats about right for G wifi network..

the test was wired trough powerlines, is that normal?

Edited December 2, 2016 by Ruti

[+BudMan MVC]

So both ends where on your powerline adapters?  Not one side wireless?

 

Then no that would not be very good.. Those speeds are wifi G speeds.. And not even "good" ones..

[Jub]

11 hours ago, Ruti said:

the test was wired trough powerlines, is that normal?

Depends on where you live. In the UK power wiring is often chaotic as hell and barely legal which would make your speed 'normal'.

[+BudMan MVC]

So fired up old powerline that use to use for my son's room when he was here, its now a guest room with only network in there is rokustick via wifi..

 

So these are old netgear xav5201 models..  Now the software link says they are running at +200mbps..

 

But in real world that is not what I see

 

Now these are on different circuits, so lets take that into account.  But to be honest should see more like high 80, low 90s which would just be a limit of their 100mbps interfaces..  But this is 4x what he is seeing..  And it connected like this.

 

PC - switch -  another switch - powerline adpt ----------- different power circuits --------------- powerline adpt --------- different switch ------ laptop

 

While maybe its the really crappy power, it just seems more like he is on wifi with those speeds.. Which are completely normal for G wifi speeds.  I keep meaning to pick up some gig powerline to play with.  But older powerline with 100mbps even if running at good speeds for their 100mbps nics.. Current N and AC could beat 100mbps wired speeds..

[Ruti]

2 hours ago, BudMan said:

So fired up old powerline that use to use for my son's room when he was here, its now a guest room with only network in there is rokustick via wifi..

 

So these are old netgear xav5201 models..  Now the software link says they are running at +200mbps..

 

But in real world that is not what I see

 

Now these are on different circuits, so lets take that into account.  But to be honest should see more like high 80, low 90s which would just be a limit of their 100mbps interfaces..  But this is 4x what he is seeing..  And it connected like this.

 

PC - switch -  another switch - powerline adpt ----------- different power circuits --------------- powerline adpt --------- different switch ------ laptop

 

While maybe its the really crappy power, it just seems more like he is on wifi with those speeds.. Which are completely normal for G wifi speeds.  I keep meaning to pick up some gig powerline to play with.  But older powerline with 100mbps even if running at good speeds for their 100mbps nics.. Current N and AC could beat 100mbps wired speeds..

The Tp Link Powerline Utility says 50/70mbs most of the time, Im going to check if its on the same circuit, and isolating the powerlines to just the 2 devices. something is not right.

3 hours ago, Jub Fequois said:

Depends on where you live. In the UK power wiring is often chaotic as hell and barely legal which would make your speed 'normal'.

the building is not that old like 4+ years, wondering if its on a different circuit

 

PS. Forgot to mention the laptop is connected to ethernet by a  Monoprice USB 2.0 Ethernet Adapter with Wii and Wii U Compatibility (109468)https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ACPSSBG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Mando]

On 11/30/2016 at 3:11 PM, Ruti said:

My house is not that big 200m i believe, but i dont have any device with ac, those powerlines would be able to reach 500mbs if connected with gigabit?? dont know if the transfer would be limited to 100mbs between powerlines. nowadays im just getting 8mb/s in steam inhouse streaming.

 

Thank you for your answer!.

hi mate the 500mb powerlines are only between each plug, the actual devices have 10/100 ethernet ports. So at best theoretical speeds would be 100mbit. so megabyte throughput of 8Mb/sec at best. 

[Ruti]

12 minutes ago, Mando said:

hi mate the 500mb powerlines are only between each plug, the actual devices have 10/100 ethernet ports. So at best theoretical speeds would be 100mbit. so megabyte throughput of 8Mb/sec at best. 

8mb/sec would be 64mbits/sec, im getting 16.9mbits, so definitely there's something wrong?