A pregnant woman shot in the stomach is indicted in her unborn child's death

[Mockingbird]

Quote

 

(CNN)--Once again, Alabama is at the forefront of a nationwide debate over the rights of pregnant women.

 

This time, the controversy stems from a pregnant woman who was shot in the stomach and is now charged with manslaughter for the death of her unborn child.

 

A Jefferson County grand jury indicted Marshae Jones, 27, based on her alleged role in starting a fight that led to the gunfire, CNN affiliate WBMA reported.

 

Jones was five months pregnant in December when she got into a fight with another woman outside a Dollar General store in Pleasant Grove, just west of Birmingham, the station said.

 

Authorities say the dispute involved the baby's father, AL.com reported.

 

"It was the mother of the child who initiated and continued the fight which resulted in the death of her own unborn baby," Pleasant Grove police Lt. Danny Reid told AL.com shortly after the shooting.

 

He said the fight caused the other woman, Ebony Jemison, to react and defend herself. He would not describe Jones, the pregnant woman, as a shooting victim.

 

"The investigation showed that the only true victim in this was the unborn baby," Reid told AL.com.

 

But that characterization incensed critics who say Alabama keeps prioritizing fetuses over women.

 

Last month, the state passed the country's strictest abortion law, which makes virtually all abortions illegal. The law says doctors who perform illegal abortions could face up to 99 years in prison.

 

Why Alabama's new abortion law might not take effect

 

The Yellowhammer Fund, which helps women who are unable to afford an abortion or the costs of travel, said Jones' indictment is ridiculous.

 

"Marshae Jones is being charged with manslaughter for being pregnant and getting shot while engaging in an altercation with a person who had a gun," Executive Director Amanda Reyes said in a statement.

 

"The state of Alabama has proven yet again that the moment a person becomes pregnant their sole responsibility is to produce a live, healthy baby and that it considers any action a pregnant person takes that might impede in that live birth to be a criminal act."

 

According to Alabama law, manslaughter happens when:

 

-- A person recklessly causes the death of another person; or

 

-- A person causes the death of another person under circumstances that would constitute murder, "except that he or she causes the death due to a sudden heat of passion caused by provocation recognized by law, and before a reasonable time for the passion to cool and for reason to reassert itself."

 

Manslaughter is a Class B felony, punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

 

Jemison, the accused shooter, initially faced a charge of manslaughter, AL.com reported. But a grand jury declined to indict the 23-year-old.

 

Neither the Pleasant Grove Police Department nor the Jefferson County district attorney's office have responded to CNN's requests for comment.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/27/us/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-in-stomach-manslaughter-indictment-trnd/index.html

[Mindovermaster Moderator]

Them and their abortion mania. Reason why we call it "the south"...

[FirstLine]

Quote

A Jefferson County grand jury indicted Marshae Jones, 27, based on her alleged role in starting a fight that led to the gunfire, CNN affiliate WBMA reported.

One less stupid on the streets. 😂

[FloatingFatMan]

So instead of blaming the woman who resorted to using a gun, they blame the woman who got shot and lost her baby, just because she started an argument?

 

America is broken. Truly broken.

 

[macrosslover]

59 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

So instead of blaming the woman who resorted to using a gun, they blame the woman who got shot and lost her baby, just because she started an argument?

 

America is broken. Truly broken.

 

A few things, she didn't just start an argument which is merely verbal, she started a physical altercation.  The story also isn't clear how violent the fight was.  One, no pregnant woman should be engaging herself in a fight, especially starting one.  I can't tell you how many pregnant women I've encountered who think that just because they are pregnant they have an immune to ass kicking card on their person.  Two, we don't know if the defender, which the grand jury after hearing all of the evidence consider her as, truly overreached.  We don't know if she really had to resort to using a gun or not, but she did. 

 

Third, should the girl defending herself just take the beat down because the aggressor was pregnant or because she was fearful of using her gun on her?  What if the pregnant girl was able to take the gun from her and then use it against her?  Would you blame her for having the gun in the first place?  You might in the UK, but we wouldn't here.  Fourth, if this had been a dude who was DUI, with his pregnant girlfriend in the vehicle and he crashed and caused the death of the unborn baby, he would be charged for a crime against that unborn child as well and society wouldn't bat an eye at him, because we would recognize his actions were reckless.  So as the story is told to us, how were the pregnant woman's actions not similarly reckless to that scenario I gave?

 

If a person was to say, the death of her unborn child was punishment enough, wouldn't the same logic also apply to the legions of men who have recklessly caused the death of their unborn children and society has given zero farts?  She played the wheel of doom and lost.

[PsYcHoKiLLa]

Fk yeah!

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

30 minutes ago, macrosslover said:

A few things, she didn't just start an argument which is merely verbal, she started a physical altercation.  The story also isn't clear how violent the fight was.  One, no pregnant woman should be engaging herself in a fight, especially starting one.  I can't tell you how many pregnant women I've encountered who think that just because they are pregnant they have an immune to ass kicking card on their person.  Two, we don't know if the defender, which the grand jury after hearing all of the evidence consider her as, truly overreached.  We don't know if she really had to resort to using a gun or not, but she did. 

 

Third, should the girl defending herself just take the beat down because the aggressor was pregnant or because she was fearful of using her gun on her?  What if the pregnant girl was able to take the gun from her and then use it against her?  Would you blame her for having the gun in the first place?  You might in the UK, but we wouldn't here.  Fourth, if this had been a dude who was DUI, with his pregnant girlfriend in the vehicle and he crashed and caused the death of the unborn baby, he would be charged for a crime against that unborn child as well and society wouldn't bat an eye at him, because we would recognize his actions were reckless.  So as the story is told to us, how were the pregnant woman's actions not similarly reckless to that scenario I gave?

 

If a person was to say, the death of her unborn child was punishment enough, wouldn't the same logic also apply to the legions of men who have recklessly caused the death of their unborn children and society has given zero farts?  She played the wheel of doom and lost.

Nope. No excuse. The woman with the gun was NOT in fear of her life as she had a gun. There was zero need for her to use it on the other woman, aggressor or no.

 

Should the aggressor face some punishment for assault? Sure, but the woman with the gun is the one who killed the baby.

[macrosslover]

4 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Nope. No excuse. The woman with the gun was NOT in fear of her life as she had a gun. There was zero need for her to use it on the other woman, aggressor or no.

 

Should the aggressor face some punishment for assault? Sure, but the woman with the gun is the one who killed the baby.

Again without either of us being there or knowing the specifics of the fact it's pretty pompous to assume there was zero cause for her to use her gun.

[macrosslover]

Since CNN is such a garbage media outlet now, more details for the story from the Washington Post

 

Quote

Jones worked at the same company as Ebony Jemison and the unborn child’s father, where tension developed between the two women, according to Jemison’s mother. Things boiled over on the afternoon of Dec. 4, when she says Jones, who was driving with friends at the time, spotted Ebony and leaped out of the vehicle to attack her. Jones’ friends exited the car soon afterward and began to move toward the scuffle, she claimed.

“Ebony was afraid for her life and reached in her purse for the gun,” Earka Jemison said, adding her daughter had a license to carry. “She tried to fire a warning shot to get away from her.”

But the shot — which Earka says was aimed at the ground — ricocheted into Jones instead, the mother said.

Now I'm sure you'll say she was reckless shooting into the ground and I can say she was a woman, she was scared, she panicked, whatever, but they did attempt to indict her and it failed, so whatever evidence the grand jury saw they thought the pregnant woman was the clear aggressor.

[wakjak]

15 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

So instead of blaming the woman who resorted to using a gun, they blame the woman who got shot and lost her baby, just because she started an argument?

 

America is broken. Truly broken.

 

It's Alabama, the deep south, you can't expect intelligence from there.

[DocM]

20 hours ago, FloatingFatMan said:

Nope. No excuse. The woman with the gun was NOT in fear of her life as she had a gun. There was zero need for her to use it on the other woman, aggressor or no.

 

People can easily kill without a firearm, even women, so her being unarmed gives the perp no cover. Irrelevant.

 

And it's not an "excuse," the right to respond in kind to a violent attack is the self-defense law in virtually every state. 

 

This numbskull picked an armed victim. Not the victim's fault.

 

Quote

Should the aggressor face some punishment for assault? Sure, but the woman with the gun is the one who killed the baby.

 

The rule is that whoever starts a conflict, or commits a crime, is responsible for the negative outcomes. Example;

 

If you rob a bank with a buddy and he's shot by a guard or armed citizen, you get charged with murder.

 

Same here.

[The Rev]

*sigh*...  Listen, I can understand how making it a crime to have an abortion is a thing, and despite the fact that I disagree with it... At least it has solid rationale...  But I mean...  Unless you can prove that this woman started this fight with the intention of causing a miscarriage...  This probably won't end well for the state.  ######## republicans are doing anything they can to bump up the abortion issue to the supreme court so that a more conservative-stacked house will overturn it once and for all..  *shakes head*...  I mean, if you REALLY want to overturn Roe v Wade, be upfront about it and find a solid legal precedent for gods sake...  

[DocM]

1 hour ago, The Rev said:

*sigh*...  Listen, I can understand how making it a crime to have an abortion is a thing, and despite the fact that I disagree with it... At least it has solid rationale...  But I mean...  Unless you can prove that this woman started this fight with the intention of causing a miscarriage...  This probably won't end well for the state. 

 

Alabama state law covers it, so no. This is how many states would handle this. She's not charged with murder because under Alabama law it was an act of passion, therefore manslaughter.

 

Alabama Code § 13A-6-2(a)(3).

Quote

 

(a) A person commits the crime of murder if he or she does any of the following:

 

(1) With intent to cause the death of another person, he or she causes the death of that person or of another person.

 

(2) Under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to human life, he or she recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to a person other than himself or herself, and thereby causes the death of another person.

>

>

(b) A person does not commit murder under subdivisions (a)(1) or (a)(2) of this section if he or she was moved to act by a sudden heat of passion caused by provocation recognized by law, and before there had been a reasonable time for the passion to cool and for reason to reassert itself.  The burden of injecting the issue of killing under legal provocation is on the defendant, but this does not shift the burden of proof.  This subsection does not apply to a prosecution for, or preclude a conviction of, manslaughter or other crime.

>

 

In oh-so-blue New York they too have "extreme indifference homicide" which is Murder 2,

 

"Under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life, he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person, and thereby causes the death of another person"

 

Quote

 

######## republicans are doing anything they can to bump up the abortion issue to the supreme court so that a more conservative-stacked house will overturn it once and for all..  *shakes head*...  I mean, if you REALLY want to overturn Roe v Wade, be upfront about it and find a solid legal precedent for gods sake... 

 

In order to get it to the Supreme Court it has to be an appeal from a lower court, and SCOTUS doesn't need any action by Congress to review or overturn Roe. Besides, Democrats hold the House...for now.

[wakjak]

Apparently not everyone in Alabama is a complete and utter moron when it comes to this case... 

 

 Alabama DA won’t prosecute woman who lost fetus after being shot

 

An Alabama district attorney has decided to drop the charges against a woman who was indicted for manslaughter after she lost her fetus when she was shot during a fight.

Marshae Jones was arrested June 26 after a grand jury concluded she intentionally caused the death of her fetus by initiating a fight with another woman.

Jones was five-months pregnant when she was shot in the stomach in a December altercation.

Jefferson County Bessemer Cutoff District Attorney Lynneice O. Washington announced the decision at a news conference Wednesday.

 

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/alabama-da-wont-prosecute-woman-who-lost-fetus-after-being-shot

[Jim K Global Moderator]

^ Good.  Waited to respond because I wasn't sure if other details would be presented (like if Ms. Jones had a weapon).  

 

Under his eye...

[Q-truth]

On 6/30/2019 at 6:38 PM, DocM said:

 

Alabama state law covers it, so no. This is how many states would handle this. She's not charged with murder because under Alabama law it was an act of passion, therefore manslaughter.

 

Alabama Code § 13A-6-2(a)(3).

 

In oh-so-blue New York they too have "extreme indifference homicide" which is Murder 2,

 

"Under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life, he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person, and thereby causes the death of another person"

 

 

In order to get it to the Supreme Court it has to be an appeal from a lower court, and SCOTUS doesn't need any action by Congress to review or overturn Roe. Besides, Democrats hold the House...for now.

Roe v Wade was based on the lie(s) of Norma McCorvey lied and claimed she had been raped.

 

link to the Roe V wade documentation... https://cdn.loc.gov/service/ll/usrep/usrep410/usrep410113/usrep410113.pdf

Edited July 3, 2019 by Q-truth
Added pdf link!

[DocM]

Jane Roe, actually named Norma McCorvey, later called the case the biggest mistake of her life, and was a pro-life activist until her death.

 

[Q-truth]

7 minutes ago, DocM said:

Jane Roe, actually named Norma McCorvey, later called the case the biggest mistake of her life, and was a pro-life activist until her death.

 

I recall there was NO law titled Roe v Wade. as best my memory recollects through the years, It was simply argued within the SCOTUS. I do NOT recall an actual LAW having been passed by Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

Quote

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973),[1] was a landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the Court ruled that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides a "right to privacy" that protects a pregnant woman's liberty to choose whether or not to have an abortion. However, it ruled that this right is not absolute, and must be balanced against the government's interests in protecting women's health and protecting prenatal life.

I can guarantee that NOT ALL of the women who have had abortions did so because of "protecting the womans health (ie. Life)." Nor have they struggled to protect prenatal life. In which case the women and government can be found at fault.

[xrobwx71]

On 6/28/2019 at 3:54 AM, FloatingFatMan said:

So instead of blaming the woman who resorted to using a gun, they blame the woman who got shot and lost her baby, just because she started an argument?

 

America is broken. Truly broken.

 

Nope, not America, just that particular Prosecutor and Judge.

[DocM]

There was no legislation, Roe being legislation by litigation. 

 

Fact is; many Roe-supporting lawyers will tell you it was poorly decided, inventing things not in the Constitution. 

 

[xrobwx71]

On 6/28/2019 at 7:53 PM, wakjak said:

It's Alabama, the deep south, you can't expect intelligence from there.

What a completely ignorant statement.

[Q-truth]

4 minutes ago, DocM said:

There was no legislation, Roe being legislation by litigation. 

 

Fact is; many Roe-supporting lawyers will tell you it was poorly decided, inventing things not in the Constitution. 

 

so in truth Legislation without representation?

[FloatingFatMan]

Quote

Manslaughter charges dropped against shot pregnant mum

 

An Alabama district attorney has dropped manslaughter charges against a pregnant woman whose unborn child died after she was shot in the stomach.

 

Marshae Jones, 28, was allegedly shot by a co-worker while five months pregnant.

 

She was charged after police alleged that she had started the fight, endangering the child's life.

 

"There are no winners in this case, only losers in the sad ordeal," said prosecutor Lynneice Washington.

 

Women's rights advocates had expressed outrage over the charges against Ms Jones.

 

The decision was announced by the Jefferson County District Attorney in a press conference on Wednesday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48849040

 

They made the right call, IMO.

[Noir Angel]

If only American conservatives held living human beings in the same reverence as fetuses.

What a hellhole of a country that a woman can end up on the stand for this at all.

[DocM]

34 minutes ago, Q-truth said:

so in truth Legislation without representation?

 

Similar to legislation by regulation, which the Supreme Court pulled back on last week in a 9-0 decision.  They admonished other federal judges to knock it off as well.