Lulzsec: "It's The Beginning Of The End For Sony"

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

LulzSec, which has previously taken responsibility for hacking Sony BMG?s Japanese website, has promised more attacks against Sony soon. ?Phase 1 will begin within the next day,? the LulzSec twitter feed read just before announcing the PBS hack, following up on its warning from Friday: ?We?re working on another Sony operation?it?s the beginning of the end for Sony.?

Source: http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2011/05/30/pbs-hacked-after-critical-wikileaks-show/

These guys do a great thing for the world (Y)

[rajputwarrior]

i knew they would get attacked during their e3 presentation...

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

For anyone who is pro-hacker or pro-exposing companies,

But to be clear, our goal is not to help companies protect their data. Our goal is to spread fun, fun, fun!

http://www.formspring.me/LulzSec

[Subject Delta]

I feel no sympathy for Sony, they have brought this upon themselves. Even Apple, which is pretty much the most litigious tech company in the business had the common sense not to aggressively pursue the iPhone's jailbreakers, however I feel sorry for the gamers who are being harmed by this

[DrJohnSmitherson]

God, they went from on top of the world with the PS2, to, what seems likes, the sewer.

[rajputwarrior]

I feel no sympathy for Sony, they have brought this upon themselves. Even Apple, which is pretty much the most litigious tech company in the business had the common sense not to aggressively pursue the iPhone's jailbreakers, however I feel sorry for the gamers who are being harmed by this

this also explains exactly how i feel.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Even Apple, which is pretty much the most litigious tech company in the business had the common sense not to aggressively pursue the iPhone's jailbreakers, however I feel sorry for the gamers who are being harmed by this

Going a little more in-depth, do you believe people/groups on the internet shouldn't be challenged regardless of legality/morality/damage they're doing because of "common sense" ? I think we'll end up living in a scary world if everyone just backs off hackers/crackers because it's "common sense".

If this is the way these types of people/groups react to any sort of confrontation against their beliefs then how can we afford to give them so much power and respect?

[Subject Delta]

Going a little more in-depth, do you believe people/groups on the internet shouldn't be challenged regardless of legality/morality/damage they're doing because of "common sense" ? I think we'll end up living in a scary world if everyone just backs off hackers/crackers because it's "common sense".

If this is the way these types of people/groups react to any sort of confrontation against their beliefs then how can we afford to give them so much power and respect?

No, I believe that you shouldn't aggressively sue the living hell out of people for jailbreaking devices. None of this crap would have happened if Sony hadn't gone after GeoHot with such ferocity.

[rajputwarrior]

Going a little more in-depth, do you believe people/groups on the internet shouldn't be challenged regardless of legality/morality/damage they're doing because of "common sense" ? I think we'll end up living in a scary world if everyone just backs off hackers/crackers because it's "common sense".

If this is the way these types of people/groups react to any sort of confrontation against their beliefs then how can we afford to give them so much power and respect?

it's how the world works. it's called don't poke the bear. this comparison may be a bit of a far stretch but is it fair what north korea does to it's own people? no. is anyone gonna do anything about it? no. why? cause no one wants to **** off the north koreans...

No, I believe that you shouldn't aggressively sue the living hell out of people for jailbreaking devices. None of this crap would have happened if Sony hadn't gone after GeoHot with such ferocity.

+1

[PixilEyes]

At least the security personal has some job security for a while. :D

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

No, I believe that you shouldn't aggressively sue the living hell out of people for jailbreaking devices. None of this crap would have happened if Sony hadn't gone after GeoHot with such ferocity.

Did you see the outcome of the Geohot case? It's simply an injunction. These groups are acting like Geohots life is over, which it is not. ****ing over the lives of millions somehow makes Geohots life better?

He also didn't simply jailbreak a device, he released protected coding which he does not have a right to do, but you know, might as well categorize everything as "jailbreaking".

it's how the world works. it's called don't poke the bear. this comparison may be a bit of a far stretch but is it fair what north korea does to it's own people? no. is anyone gonna do anything about it? no. why? cause no one wants to **** off the north koreans...

Yes because the whole world operates like North Korea.

[Subject Delta]

Did you see the outcome of the Geohot case? It's simply an injunction. These groups are acting like Geohots life is over, which it is not.

He also didn't simply jailbreak a device, he released protected coding which does not have a right to do, but you know, might as well categorize everything as "jailbreaking".

That's only because he agreed terms with Sony, they fully intended to sue him into the ground if he didn't comply.

And he didn't release protected coding either, the encryption codes were leaked from within Sony.

[spenser.d]

it's how the world works. it's called don't poke the bear.

That's an extremely poor justification for what Sony's had to go through. This hacking that shut down PSN for a month doesn't just affect Sony, it affects the players and the developers as well and its just not good for the industry. Sony wasn't in the wrong for going after Geohot and they shouldn't be punished for it.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

And he didn't release protected coding either, the encryption codes were leaked from within Sony.

You're completely incorrect there. The USB jig key was leaked from within Sony [allows a console to go into debug mode], hackers (like Geohot) tore apart the PS3 to find the master key themselves and released it on their own accord.

They then used that protected piece of Sony code to create their own code to run on the PS3.

In a normal jailbreak all the code used is created by the hackers to attack an exploit/flaw. In this case the hackers used Sony's code.

[rajputwarrior]

Did you see the outcome of the Geohot case? It's simply an injunction. These groups are acting like Geohots life is over, which it is not. ****ing over the lives of millions somehow makes Geohots life better?

well yeah that was after all the bullying tactics and character defimation sony tried to put him through... was that fair as well?

Yes because the whole world operates like North Korea.

yeah that metaphor went completely over your head. what i was trying to say is sony things they can bully everyone into doing what they want and take every sort of "wrong doing" against them and respond with absolutely brute force. which is their absolutely their right to do. they can protect their ish all they like. it's theirs. wether their tactics are fair and ethical are a completely different discsussion. but if you go about it the wrong way and resort to bully tactics, or treat all your customers like pirates then eventually it's going to bite you in the ass.

[Subject Delta]

You're completely incorrect there. The USB jig key was leaked from within Sony [allows a console to go into debug mode], hackers tore apart the PS3 to find the master key themselves and released it on their own accord.

Ok, well I stand corrected, but I still stand by my original assertion that they had no need to go after him, and it would have been a lot simpler for them and their customers and them if they hadn't. I know someone like you will never admit it, but whether you like it or not Sony's attitude is directly to blame for the s***storm they are currently embroiled in. Apple are the most litigious tech company in the world, so tell me, why didn't they sue any of the jailbreakers (before the DMCA exemption was granted)?

[rajputwarrior]

That's an extremely poor justification for what Sony's had to go through. This hacking that shut down PSN for a month doesn't just affect Sony, it affects the players and the developers as well and its just not good for the industry. Sony wasn't in the wrong for going after Geohot and they shouldn't be punished for it.

im not saying that justifies it, it absolutely doesn't. but every action has a reaction, legal or not. what i am saying is people didn't like the way they went after hotz and that seemed to make a lot of smart people out there angry.

you know what a good way to go about things is? how MS did it. obviously what this kid did and hotz isn't the same, but you get the idea. and didn't microsoft hire the creator of the I love you virus, which did retardly more damage then the PSN hack? bully tactics aren't always the way going about things. the whole RIAA tactic of "we have more money then you and we'll run you and your name through the mud in a court of law unless you comply wether or not what you did deemed illegal or not" ticks a lot of people off.

[BoredBozirini]

Sucks to be Sony now.

[andrew_f]

Hey, hackers. Don't like Sony? Don't buy them or sell your Sony goods.

All you're doing is disrupting millions of people who don't have a beef with either side and annoying people to the point where they'll be against you.

It's all so pathetic.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

well yeah that was after all the bullying tactics and character defimation sony tried to put him through... was that fair as well?

yeah that metaphor went completely over your head. what i was trying to say is sony things they can bully everyone into doing what they want and take every sort of "wrong doing" against them and respond with absolutely brute force. which is their absolutely their right to do. they can protect their ish all they like. it's theirs. wether their tactics are fair and ethical are a completely different discsussion. but if you go about it the wrong way and resort to bully tactics, or treat all your customers like pirates then eventually it's going to bite you in the ass.

Everyone in this world uses brute force and "bullying" to some extent, THAT is how the world works. You need to pursue results viciously to get them.

You do however have to do that legally, and I'm sitting here still waiting on proof of anything Sony done being illegal. Where as our hacker friends, we don't need any proof, what they done day 1 was illegal. Whether it's "common sense" or not, if someone does something illegal to you you protect your ass, or at least try to.

Geohot mocked Sony, posted their code, and damaged their systems security, why is he not going to get bit in the ass for that? Because he's a hacker he's immune to getting this ass biting you and others keep saying Sony deserve? That's precisely what he got, and many others will get this. There's easily still more fallout for individuals to come, and on a far more serious level. If these hackers get a free pass from all this, as I said, our world is ****ed going forward as many more services we use will go down/lose our details - In fact, there's a shocking amount of personal details getting exposed as of late, almost every week there's a new article on the NW front page. Lulzsec also attacked the UK X Factor website for a laugh and released lots of personal details.

These individuals/groups are out of hand playing God, not the companies trying to protect their intellectual property. If these hackers had a shred of decency or moral obligations they'd find flaws and report them to companies in the right way, not blow peoples details onto the web and disrupt services.

Ok, well I stand corrected, but I still stand by my original assertion that they had no need to go after him, and it would have been a lot simpler for them and their customers and them if they hadn't. I know someone like you will never admit it, but whether you like it or not Sony's attitude is directly to blame for the s***storm they are currently embroiled in. Apple are the most litigious tech company in the world, so tell me, why didn't they sue any of the jailbreakers (before the DMCA exemption was granted)?

This situation simply cannot be compared to a phone, or even Apple. I told you in the post you quoted the hackers went around this "jailbreak" by taking code protected by intellectual property rights [uSB jig key], and used that to hack the system and release further coding protected by intellectual rights [Master Key], which was then used by these hackers in their own coding (custom firmware).

That makes this situation non-comparable to the iPhone, as the jailbreaking on that was done with code that's completely written by the hacker, then used to attack a flaw or exploit that is found naturally in Apple's coding.

There is nothing natural or anything that's been fully written from the ground up in this case. That is why Sony went after people, these people are unlawfully using Sony's property.

[rajputwarrior]

Everyone in this world uses brute force and "bullying" to some extent, THAT is how the world works. You need to pursue results viciously to get them.

You do however have to do that legally, and I'm sitting here still waiting on proof of anything Sony done being illegal. Where as our hacker friends, we don't need any proof, what they done day 1 was illegal. Whether it's "common sense" or not, if someone does something illegal to you you protect your ass, or at least try to.

Geohot mocked Sony, posted their code, and damaged their systems security, why is he not going to get bit in the ass for that? Because he's a hacker he's immune to getting this ass biting you and others keep saying Sony deserve? That's precisely what he got, and many others will get this. There's easily still more fallout for individuals to come, and on a far more serious level. If these hackers get a free pass from all this, as I said, our world is ****ed going forward as many more services we use will go down/lose our details - In fact, there's a shocking amount of personal details getting exposed as of late, almost every week there's a new article on the NW front page. Lulzsec also attacked the UK X Factor website for a laugh and released lots of personal details.

i agree, you have to protect what you have and sometimes you have to use "bully" type tactics to do it. But why sit there and release a story about hotz ditching the country to avoid the trial and say he ran off with the money people donated him for a south american vacation other then to make him look bad and try to gain the publics favour? The story was absolutely unfounded and not true. That's a dbag move on sony's part.

I'm not saying what hotz did wasn't dbag like either, but i don't disagree with him effing around with a peice of hardware he owns. i dunno about the laws where you are, but in canada you can do that. And it's not all just the hotz thing that i didn't like. The whole rootkit incident was a giant pain in the ass. Working at a tech shop we made a lot of money formatting PCs because of what Sony did and those people got absolutely no compensation for the money they had to spent to fix their computers. That wasn't fair either.

I'm not saying either what these bdags are doing in terms of personal data is a good thing , but sony dropped the ball big time in terms of basic comp security meaning the entire fault can't be placed on the hackers as it is sony's responsibility for the protection of all that information. but once again, that's another topic and we may find out more when the US congress gets through their hearing, which i am glad they are doing. And once again I am not saying the hackers should get a free pass, the dbags who brought down PSN should be punished (though personally I don't care cause all my games on my ps3 i play offline anyways and thanks to those hackers i'm getting free games out of it, so really, i kinda like those guys). The hackers won't get a free pass, but i doubt they'll ever be found/caught/convicted. they seem way to smart for that.

[madd-hatter]

I can't wait to see 10's if not 100's of people go to prison for boring the hell out of me with this overblown Sony bullsh**.

Seriously... This is getting old. If people would stop talking about it and giving them recognition, they would stop...

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

i agree, you have to protect what you have and sometimes you have to use "bully" type tactics to do it. But why sit there and release a story about hotz ditching the country to avoid the trial and say he ran off with the money people donated him for a south american vacation other then to make him look bad and try to gain the publics favour? The story was absolutely unfounded and not true. That's a dbag move on sony's part.

Sony's Laywers said this

"Though the evidence establishing personal jurisdiction is already overwhelming, SCEA has little doubt that there is much more.

However, over the last several weeks, Hotz has engaged in a campaign to thwart jurisdictional discovery at every turn - regardless of whether the court has ordered such discovery or not.

Most seriously, after Magistrate Judge Spero ordered an inspection of Hotz's devices and ordered Hotz to appear at a deposition in California, SCEA learned that Hotz had deliberately removed integral components of his impounded hard drives prior to delivering them to a third party neutral and that Hotz is now in South America, an excuse for why he will not immediately provide the components of his hard drives as requested by the neutral. Hotz's attempts to dodge this Court's authority raise very serious questions."

http://www.qj.net/ps3/news/geohot-flees-to-south-america-psn-account-proved.html

You know, they're knee deep in a court case, why on earth would the Sony lawyers not bring up the fact Geohot is going away in the middle of it with outstanding evidence needing handed over?

Hardly some sort of song and dance about escaping the country and using up donations. That you have to thank the internet journalists for. I think people have done far too much headline reading, then taken those headlines to bed at night and dreamt up all these awful unfair weep worthy scenarios dear George must of gone through, and woke up ready to give the finger to the man in the morning.

[optimax]

Let's be honest - sony went about this COMPLETELY the wrong way. This day in age you just can't go inciting the wrath of the hacker community unless you are damn sure your network is up to the task.

Which brings me onto my second point. Sony built their network on the cheap. A catalogue of screw ups from not being bothered to keep your software up to date, leaving holes open which were patched *YEARS* Ago. (I say this as a sysadmin that it is NOT particularly hard to keep any number of servers up to date if you have invested in and resourced a proper maintenance program) to such fundamental screw ups such as NOT ENCRYPTING PERSONAL DATA. That is such a schoolboy error I don't see how anyone can legitimately defend letting sony have any of your details in future.

Their lack of investment in PSN REALLY shows.

The way around it would have been to embrace the community. There's some obviously quite talented people and Sony could have leveraged that skill and enthusiasm to their benefit. Ie they could have done a Microsoft and given the hackers a job there for the benefit of everyone.

That's just one way around it, there are plenty more. Sony just went in bull-headed like the completely egotistical company they are, assuming no one can touch them and a lawsuit solves everything - and got rightly bitten in the ass big time.

Sucks to be Sony. They brought it on themselves.

[Ayepecks]

Audio, I'm afraid if you keep worrying about all the hackers that threaten to attack a company that you're going to have a heart attack :laugh: Something the size of the PSN hack is highly unlikely to happen very frequently. Plus, they make no mention of PSN, only Sony. Sony is a massive corporation with tons of SBUs. Stop fretting so much.