PCMag confirms carriers steer customers away from buying Windows Phone


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I know when I'd go to AT&T stores to deal with something, such as getting a new SIM card or something, I'd hear customers talking about getting an iPhone 3GS with tethering plan or people wanting the iPhone and also MiWi. I'd talk to them and mention they can just jailbreak and get tethering from their phone or just wait for a new iPhone. Usually the sale's rep would agree with me, but that's just in my town.

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I respect and often agree with your opinion Growled, but in this instance I have to disagree. By nielsen's reckoning, WM7 is sitting just below or at about 1% marketshare. It's been out what, 7/8 months? Considering the worldwide release on launch and the massive amount of advertising, it's doing rather poorly. Unless by some miracle, everything changes, this is The Zune part 2.

In response to why staff are steering users away from WM7, I would think it's pretty clear. It lacks many core features people expect, such as great games, custom ring tones, large application repository, a fast browser, flash, and many others, all distinctly missing from WM7. If you factor in the very poor sales, the sales rep are doing their jobs well.

I'd be interested in knowing the return rates, but I guess Microsoft would never release that information, no doubt for the same reason its reticent regarding actual sales numbers.

1. It's not Windows Mobile 7. It's Windows Phone 7. If you're going to troll at least troll correctly.

2. Yeah, because having Xbox LIVE integrated with a huge load of popular games is exactly what isn't on the phones /s

3. The browser is pretty fast an IE9 is coming soon.

The job of a sales rep is to sell, not to steer.

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Yup, I've seen this actively happen as well on both carrier websites and in retail stores. With very good reason though: Microsoft is the only company in the country that sells phones which don't support Dutch. Laughable really.

At least that grid with dead icons supports most commonly used languages. Not much point in having a home screen that spews large quantities of information in your face in a language you don't or hardly understand... Just saying'.

well of course, if there's a language availability problem that's a real concern and something MS needs to work out. But the original article and most of the people here are talking about english phones in english speaking countries...

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Translation: I am an infamous troll and disagree with any positive thing about Windows Phone.

Of course but that won't stop 'Flawed' from posting his usual garbage.

He talks about it being out 'worldwide' for 7-8 months which is a load of crap - it finally arrived in my country on the carrier I use around 2 months ago; that is the case for many other countries.

The fact that 'Flawed' refers to it as 'Windows Mobile 7' is clear evidence to me that the guy is a troll; him and his entire family should be banned from the internet to ensure such ignorance doesn't spread like syphilis through a whorehouse.

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I like how some of the droid fans are spinning this "they're selling them a better phone." pfft Please. If you go in there with no predetermind idea of what to get and are open to any suggestion then ok, but if you go and you ask for a specific product the odds are that you've read up on it and know what it is you're getting. If I go in and ask for a Windows Phone and you try to sell me an Android it makes no sense at all, why? Why do you care in the end how I spend my money? Speically when you press the sales people about it and they admit they have no clue at all about WP7 and haven't even tried it out.

Case in point, another person said they walked into a carrier shop and asked for a WP and the sales person did his job right and took them to the spot with the WP display and even showed them their own WP device and how it works etc. The difference here is clear, the sales rep knew about it and actually used it instead of writing it off and trying to shove something else in his face.

Lets cut the bull**** here, if I walk into a car dealership and ask to see a sport coupe why in the hell would you try to sell me a mini-van?

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Of course but that won't stop 'Flawed' from posting his usual garbage.

He talks about it being out 'worldwide' for 7-8 months which is a load of crap - it finally arrived in my country on the carrier I use around 2 months ago; that is the case for many other countries.

The fact that 'Flawed' refers to it as 'Windows Mobile 7' is clear evidence to me that the guy is a troll; him and his entire family should be banned from the internet to ensure such ignorance doesn't spread like syphilis through a whorehouse.

some of you around here take ish wayyyyyyyyy too seriously...

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I like how some of the droid fans are spinning this "they're selling them a better phone." pfft Please. If you go in there with no predetermind idea of what to get and are open to any suggestion then ok, but if you go and you ask for a specific product the odds are that you've read up on it and know what it is you're getting. If I go in and ask for a Windows Phone and you try to sell me an Android it makes no sense at all, why? Why do you care in the end how I spend my money? Speically when you press the sales people about it and they admit they have no clue at all about WP7 and haven't even tried it out.

Case in point, another person said they walked into a carrier shop and asked for a WP and the sales person did his job right and took them to the spot with the WP display and even showed them their own WP device and how it works etc. The difference here is clear, the sales rep knew about it and actually used it instead of writing it off and trying to shove something else in his face.

Lets cut the bull**** here, if I walk into a car dealership and ask to see a sport coupe why in the hell would you try to sell me a mini-van?

Agreed; if a customer comes off the street and says, "I want a Windows Phone 7" then you say, "sure thing" go and get the product and let the customer purchase it - if someone has come off the street and specifically asks for a device then it is pretty clear that they've done their research and know what they want. Even when it comes to advice though the carrier staff need to be willing to be unbiased - heck, I've sold computers before and I'm always up front with the customer but I'm willing to advise something to them that I don't use. If someone is looking for a Windows computer (and I'm a Mac user) then I'm going to show them some Windows computers - if they ask what I use I'd say I use a Mac but they aren't for everyone and that a Windows computer might be more suitable if that is what you're used to. 9/10 if you're upfront with a customer and honest about your own background yet demonstrate that you're trying to be unbiased the customer will trust you and you will be able to successfully make a sale.

some of you around here take ish wayyyyyyyyy too seriously...

No, some of us have some integrity regardless of whether our faces can be seen or not - sorry, I'm going to be upfront and honest whether I'm talking to someone face to face or via the internet in relative anonymity. It has nothing to do with defending Microsoft - Microsoft have an entire marketing department for that, what people like me get annoyed about is the blatant dishonesty that takes place, not differences of opinion but blatant dishonesty.

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I seriously believe that MS should send reps to random stores to ask about the W7 phones after what i went through a few weeks back. It was almost scarry how bad the sales reps at 2 different stores I went in talked about the W7 product and then played up the Droid.

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I seriously believe that MS should send reps to random stores to ask about the W7 phones after what i went through a few weeks back. It was almost scarry how bad the sales reps at 2 different stores I went in talked about the W7 product and then played up the Droid.

Talking down about it without even trying it I'm sure. That's the real kicker there.

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Talking down about it without even trying it I'm sure. That's the real kicker there.

Like I said before, I've gone to an AT&T Store that flat out refused to sell me a Windows Phone.

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It's the job of a sales rep to sell a phone, not promote one. If there aren't a lot of people coming in looking for Windows Phones, then why would the sales reps bother knowing how to sell them? Most people looking for a smartphone will go in and ask for a "droid" or an iPhone,and apparently most aren't looking for a Windows Phone.

It's Microsoft's job, as well as the manufacturers, to promote the phones. In some cases, that responsibility also falls on the carriers (as we saw with Verizon and the original Droid). I don't know if any of you remember the mobile market before the Motorola Droid came out, but Android was going through the same kind of growth problems as Windows Phone. It was an OS for enthusiasts, but the regular consumers were just as happy with a dumbphone or an iPhone. When those Droid ads started rolling, they caught regular consumers' attention, and so ever since, Android phones are usually referred to as "droids."

The problem is marketing. You can't try and pin an OS doing badly on the sales reps, because they try to get a sale done and get their commission sooner, so they can move on to the next customer. If they're spending more time explaining what the hell Windows Phone is, it's not worth their while when everyone knows about iPhones and Android phones - there's less explaining for the rep to do, and the sale is made quicker.

If Microsoft can make this OS more attractive through an effective marketing campaign, the sales reps will put the time into trying to sell them. Right now, it's just not worth it for them.

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verizon told me "why would you buy a dead 15 year old OS, get the iphone we have it now"

but to fix this microsoft needs a name for their stuff, not just "windows phone"..... something catchy people will ask for by memory...... just making a dumb name up...... The OptoPhone, the opertunitiues are endless with it!.... people know droid, they know iphone..... they ask for what they know because the name sticks with them

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No, some of us have some integrity regardless of whether our faces can be seen or not - sorry, I'm going to be upfront and honest whether I'm talking to someone face to face or via the internet in relative anonymity. It has nothing to do with defending Microsoft - Microsoft have an entire marketing department for that, what people like me get annoyed about is the blatant dishonesty that takes place, not differences of opinion but blatant dishonesty.

fight the power bro, especially against flawed and his entire family... :rolleyes:

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When I have people at my store asking what I would recommend, I can sometimes show them my WP7 Trophy, and say that I would have liked to recommend this, because it's easy to use and learn and it has better battery life even with heavy use than any Android device.

But right now I can't recommend it because it's not officially launched in Norway.

Come fall though, I will definitely recommend anyone that wants a simple and fast phone to get a WP7 phone. I ave a hard enough time recommending Android phones to regular (old time Nokia users) as it is. selling an android is a lot of work cause even after you sell it to them, they'll be back repeatedly for help on how to use it, just for simple stuff like checking the call log and sorting the call log by only incoming or outgoing or unanswered, since it mixes everything by standard. and that's with Sense which is one of the more sensible UI's.

Give an android and a WP7 each to couple of old Nokia dumb phone users. and while the WP7 user will be picking it up fairly quickly, you'll see a lot more head scratching over in android corner. It's not a bad OS, it's a good OS, but it's not very non techie friendly.

So yes, what these salesmen are doing is wrong, if the customer wants something you give it to them, However just recommending something you consider a better alternative is a valid strategy, IF the customers is open to options. and if you have an unsure customer who doesn't know what he wants, your job is actually to steer people. You find out what they want and need, then you steer them to the best choice for their needs.

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So yes, what these salesmen are doing is wrong, if the customer wants something you give it to them, However just recommending something you consider a better alternative is a valid strategy, IF the customers is open to options.

Thank you - this is probably the #1 thing that's guaranteed to get me to cause physical harm to sales people. I don't mind a recommendation, but if I ask for one thing and you give me something else.. well.. it's going to be put someplace that the salesman will find rather unpleasant while I go talk to somebody who actually listens to what I'm wanting.

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It's the job of a sales rep to sell a phone, not promote one. If there aren't a lot of people coming in looking for Windows Phones, then why would the sales reps bother knowing how to sell them? Most people looking for a smartphone will go in and ask for a "droid" or an iPhone,and apparently most aren't looking for a Windows Phone.

It's Microsoft's job, as well as the manufacturers, to promote the phones. In some cases, that responsibility also falls on the carriers (as we saw with Verizon and the original Droid). I don't know if any of you remember the mobile market before the Motorola Droid came out, but Android was going through the same kind of growth problems as Windows Phone. It was an OS for enthusiasts, but the regular consumers were just as happy with a dumbphone or an iPhone. When those Droid ads started rolling, they caught regular consumers' attention, and so ever since, Android phones are usually referred to as "droids."

The problem is marketing. You can't try and pin an OS doing badly on the sales reps, because they try to get a sale done and get their commission sooner, so they can move on to the next customer. If they're spending more time explaining what the hell Windows Phone is, it's not worth their while when everyone knows about iPhones and Android phones - there's less explaining for the rep to do, and the sale is made quicker.

If Microsoft can make this OS more attractive through an effective marketing campaign, the sales reps will put the time into trying to sell them. Right now, it's just not worth it for them.

You're both right & wrong.

It is the job of the sales person to sell a phone, not promote a phone. On that bit you are dead right.

Where you're wrong is in not pinning it on the sales people.

If I walk in and ask for a WP7 device & you push Android & iOS my way and bash WP7 then obviously you're promoting the competitor, which is just what you said it's NOT their job to do.

So make up your mind.

Is it their job to promote or not? If it's not then they need to shut the hell up and show me what I'm asking them to show me.

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Yup, I've seen this actively happen as well on both carrier websites and in retail stores. With very good reason though: Microsoft is the only company in the country that sells phones which don't support Dutch. Laughable really.

At least that grid with dead icons supports most commonly used languages. Not much point in having a home screen that spews large quantities of information in your face in a language you don't or hardly understand... Just saying'.

What's laughable about it? WP7 isn't supported in the Netherlands yet. It also doesn't support Alpha Centauri or Esparanto.

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I can attest to these experiences. I have been a long time Android users and would like to try out WP7 phones before buying the actual things. I went to my local Fry's which have literally hundreds of phones on display but the only WP7 phones they put on display are the empty shelled ones where you can't even test out all the functionality.

To be honest though, at a first look, WP7 is not that impressive, not flashy as iPhone nor as colorful as an Android phones. The thing that WP7 stands out is the fluidity, and user experience. But the problem is without some working models, the customer will just steer away from WP7. One representative told me the truth that he earned very poor commission on every WP7 phones sold because his boss doesn't care too much about the platform and wants him to promote the Droids and the iPhone instead. For every iPhone they sell, not only they get commission from AT&T but they also get some bonuses from Apple.

That's just typical business practices I guess. If WP7 wants to succeed, MS needs to try harder.

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This is just not right. It should be about selling the customer what they NEED not some hidden agenda the store may have. Like for example if the person looks technically challenged and with TOO much money in their pocket, sell them an iPhone. If they look like a geek, sell them an Android phone. If they look like they have bruises from walking into things on the street, sell them a WP7 phone. The store has these products to sell but if they have an unusually high number of returns which I suspect they would with WP7 then of course they wouldn't want to waste their time only to get them back in a few days. I would do the same thing.

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Yup, I've seen this actively happen as well on both carrier websites and in retail stores. With very good reason though: Microsoft is the only company in the country that sells phones which don't support Dutch. Laughable really.

At least that grid with dead icons supports most commonly used languages. Not much point in having a home screen that spews large quantities of information in your face in a language you don't or hardly understand... Just saying'.

The significantly higher number of Tagalog speakers in the world are having trouble feeling sorry for you. Find THAT language. Anywhere.

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Really the biggest issue is variety of handsets. I would have gone for a Samsung focus or omnia, but it wasn't on the network I wanted to use it on. Or a mozart. Or any others. The carriers should have ALL models, not just ONE HTC, or ONE Samsung.

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At least that grid with dead icons supports most commonly used languages. Not much point in having a home screen that spews large quantities of information in your face in a language you don't or hardly understand... Just saying'.

What? In terms of programming... .Net is very common. And in terms of "language"... The app display's text in the language it's coded to display. If you buy a Chinese app, it shows Chinese. ect..ect.

I have a WP7, and i understand it. And so do all my friends at college, and they aren't all tech-kiddies like me. :rolleyes:

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Part of the job of the sale person is to give recommendations for their product. These guys have a financial incentive to sell phones that don't get returned because they will lose their commissions. Thus, it makes perfect sense to promote phones you think will meet the needs of the consumer and lead to both a sale and no return.

It's all about where your incentives are.

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