I don't know who apple is marketing to anymore

[Vice]

I dont understand why people think this. They still offer a Macbook Pro and the Mac Pro workstation (which most non-professionals will not buy). They still offer their professional suites (Logic Studio). They still seem to have lots of professional options available.

They aren't really focusing on Pros. Final Cut Pro X is proof of that when you cannot even import content made with the last version. That is saying to Pros 'Oh hey remember all those projects you did? Yeah trash those files, btw no way to convert either'

And then they don't update Aperture, they don't bring out a Photoshop competitor really. They drag their feet on enterprise, they get rid of the Xserve, they did nothing with OS X Server, no innovation in that sector.

Look I'm a Mac user I have a MacBook Pro but it's plainly obvious where Apple is headed and that isn't a market which enables professionals, it is a market that empowers consumers instead.

[xWhiplash]

They aren't really focusing on Pros. Final Cut Pro X is proof of that when you cannot even import content made with the last version. That is saying to Pros 'Oh hey remember all those projects you did? Yeah trash those files, btw no way to convert either'

Adobe does the same thing sometimes. I have seen it happen where projects cannot be opened in the newest version. Its not uncommon. Oh and this is happening between older versions like CS1 -> CS2, and there still is no 'convert' tool or anything.

There is still Adobe Premiere Pro which I like much more than Final Cut in some areas.

[Vice]

Adobe does the same thing sometimes. I have seen it happen where projects cannot be opened in the newest version. Its not uncommon. Oh and this is happening between older versions like CS1 -> CS2, and there still is no 'convert' tool or anything.

There is still Adobe Premiere Pro which I like much more than Final Cut in some areas.

Perhaps, but taken in the context of everything else they are doing combined it's just another piller of evidence against them supporting professionals.

I won't disagree that sometimes you need to break backwards compatibility though you are right.

[Unix2]

Perhaps, but taken in the context of everything else they are doing combined it's just another piller of evidence against them supporting professionals.

I won't disagree that sometimes you need to break backwards compatibility though you are right.

You need to understand something, Final Cut Pro X was designed from scratch in a totally new application, it is normal to expect incompatibility issues, however Apple said that they will release an update to address most of the issues of Final Cut X at one point. Any software app that is built from scratch in a totally new system will have issues with previous versions. Same happened when we upgraded from OS 9 to OS X.

[migo]

Well, one thing I bet you can't do is make the battery last more than 6 hours.

Try 10 hours.

[Vice]

You need to understand something, Final Cut Pro X was designed from scratch in a totally new application, it is normal to expect incompatibility issues, however Apple said that they will release an update to address most of the issues of Final Cut X at one point. Any software app that is built from scratch in a totally new system will have issues with previous versions. Same happened when we upgraded from OS 9 to OS X.

See my post above yours.

[1759]

You need to understand something, Final Cut Pro X was designed from scratch in a totally new application, it is normal to expect incompatibility issues, however Apple said that they will release an update to address most of the issues of Final Cut X at one point. Any software app that is built from scratch in a totally new system will have issues with previous versions. Same happened when we upgraded from OS 9 to OS X.

FCPX can import from iMovie, but can't import from FCP 7 - that would be like Adobe allowing the latest version of PS to import from PSE, but not the previous version of PS.

There's no workaround or patch for that, it's like a deliberate decision to break backwards compatibility, and somewhat not Apple's MO; previously they offered Classic during the OSX transition or Rosetta during the Intel transition. FCPX seems like a choice to go forward at any cost, in spite that pros actually have to deal with tape and other external sources. They'll cash in on the consumer market, but they're going to do it at the expense of the pros that helped to keep them afloat during the pre-iPod/iMac days.

[migo]

FCPX can import from iMovie, but can't import from FCP 7 - that would be like Adobe allowing the latest version of PS to import from PSE, but not the previous version of PS.

There's no workaround or patch for that, it's like a deliberate decision to break backwards compatibility, and somewhat not Apple's MO; previously they offered Classic during the OSX transition or Rosetta during the Intel transition. FCPX seems like a choice to go forward at any cost, in spite that pros actually have to deal with tape and other external sources. They'll cash in on the consumer market, but they're going to do it at the expense of the pros that helped to keep them afloat during the pre-iPod/iMac days.

Apple's been doing that for ages. A PowerBook G3 292MHz with 83MHz bus and 288MB RAM apparently can't run 10.3 because it has no USB ports, but a iMac G3 233MHz with 66MHz bus and 96MB RAM can because it does. They've been arbitrarily locking out older users from updates for a while. The way they flippantly shut down .mac to replace it with MobileMe and then will shut that down to replace it with iCloud also shows that Apple is only concerned with people who will buy their future products, not past customers. Once you've given them your money, they don't care about you. They'd also quite like to ditch all the people who use Macs for any practical purpose, because then they need to compete on features. They'd rather just compete on brand name, where people buy a Mac because it's a Mac, and not any other reason. From a business sense it's smart, but any long time Mac user should be saddened by it. What's the point of Apple being a financially successful company if they had to give up everything that made them good in the 8s and 90s to get there?

And Apple will be losing customers over this, but just not the ones they care about. My Mom has been sticking with Macs because she still has some stuff she made with AppleWorks, ironically though, to continue having AppleWorks support, her next upgrade will have to be to Windows. That'll be the case for a lot of people who continue to use older software that was available on both Mac OS and Windows. At least Windows has the backwards compatibility.

I'll be totally unsurprised if Lion is the last version of OSX, and within a couple year Apple just sells iPhones, iPod touches, iPads, iTVs and MacBook Airs. A desktop Mac isn't as beneficial to Apple, because people don't see it unless they come into your house. A mobile Mac is beneficial to them because everyone else sees people using a Mac. You can see this trend starting with the PowerBook G4 when they switched from having the Apple logo upright for someone about to open the lid - a sign that they catered to the user, to having the Apple logo upright when the lid was open for the benefit of other people - a sign that they saw the user as an advertising resource for them.

[Mountain Dew]

I buy Apple computers because, as cliche' as it sounds, they just work...I don't have to remove a crap load of bloatware upon first use, I don't need to download a good media player or pdf reader or image mounter or anti malware apps....i don't have to custom build a nice computer myself, why when i can pay apple who already have done that themselves and better than I ever could?

Its simple, I have money, I want a nice computer that does what I want it to do and I want it now...hmmm, Apple Store or?

Yeah I'm 32 not 23, I'lll give newegg a pass :)

HAHA!!!

Let me rewrite what you wrote as to what it actually means:

I love Apple because I buy into the hype that they just work. Never mind the kernel panics or the fact that Apple products are the first to fall at events like Pwn2Own where real security people hit machines with attacks.

I don't know how to build a PC myself, and because of that I have to buy mine from companies that overcharge for the parts, and I pick Apple because they make pretty shiny metal cases.

I'll pass on a company like Newegg that offers affordable, quality parts because I wouldn't know what to do with the site if I visited it, or the parts if I did buy them.

Hold on, let me mention my age here, and then reverse it to make a point that I'm no longer that young, so I can make it look like I'm more mature of a person than my hipster mentality would make it seem.

HAHA!!!

If you think Apple builds quality you should do some more research since Apple doesn't actually build them. They hire 3rd party companies that take their designs & produce the machines. Those companies also produce machines for other companies, including some of the companies whose hardware you would likely ridicule.

So in essence, the joke is on you, in many ways.

You're actually talking a reasonable argument there. Sure if I built my own rig I could build one that out did one that any oem pre-built including Apple. But...does it run OS X....no. Again...I buy a mac because it runs an operating system that does what I need it to do.

So, the $20,000 question then.

What does 'OS X' do, that you cannot do with Windows?

As a reference to what was said by another poster earlier, I can also boot Windows & OS X on my PC and on my netbook. I just don't bother putting OS X on there as I honestly found I wasn't using it much.

I do install it every so often however to keep myself familiar enough with it in case someone has questions about it.

[Mountain Dew]

The keyword people have been using is professionals not gamers. A person like myself who works in Photoshop and After Effects finds the 13" MBP performs very well.

Again with the price arguments. Everybody needs to look at what you get, then compare the prices:

1. Aluminum Unibody vs Cheap Plastic: Yes this is personal choice, but I prefer the unibody over the Dell plastic. This is the same reason why I purchase computer cases above $200 when I build myself because I like full tower steel cases. Personal opinion, but you cannot argue that it costs Apple more, which makes their computers cost more.
   
2. Usually higher end displays: Apple's laptops usually comes with higher quality displays than a $200 dell. Either better technology or higher resolution. This is perfect for the graphic artists.
   
3. Productivity Suite: Macs come with the iLife productivity suite, so that is factored into the price of the computer as well. Rather you want it or not, it is included and thus makes the price higher.
   
4. OS X: Macs come with OS X, a very good operating system that everybody can use (mostly). Again, you need to factor this into the pricing as well.
   
5. Windows: You do know you can run Windows on the Mac as well? The mac performs just like any other "pc" with the same specs
   
6. No bloat: The reason Dell, HP, and all the other PC manufacturers are cheaper is because they get some money by putting product trials, very short subscription to AV software, and making half a dozen things load when you start the computer. This is why I always perform a clean install as soon as I get one from these companies.
   
7. Building price: Just like if you compare Dell and building yourself, Macs need that same building price if not more. Like I said, they spend more time cutting out the unibody than cheap plastic which causes an increase in build pricing.
   

Please people, do a full thorough comparison before you say a $600 Dell laptop is SOOOOOO much better than a $1,900 15" Macbook Pro.

If you're paying over $200 for a steel case you're getting ripped off. An Aluminum case would be a far better expenditure, and you can pick up a nice quality aluminum case for $50 for a PC. I built one of my main rigs with one and used to carry it to LAN parties that were sometimes a couple miles away, using a single finger.

The resolutions on the monitors between Dell & Apple are the same at the various size points for the laptops/netbooks/notebooks/whateveryouwanttocallthem. Sure the quality on a $1500 Apple is better than a $200 Dell, but it's about the same on a $500 Dell.

Most PC's also ship with a version of Office or Open Office. A lot of them these days come with Office Starter that handles Word & Excel, which is what most people need out of the box.

PCs typically come with Windows, an easy to use OS that is obviously the choice of the average person and has been for almost 30 years, next point please?

Indeed the Mac does run Windows via a dual boot solution or with emulation. Why would I want to spend 2-3x the price to run Windows though?

Indeed, and you can actually avoid that scenario by doing something like Microsoft Signature where you order the PC from Microsoft, pay a very small fee, and it comes very cleanly installed with just what it needs. Still far cheaper than a Mac.

Working with aluminum is fairly cheap actually, especially for cutting it. It's a very inexpensive material for the purpose, and is my material of choice for PC enclosures.

So basically almost everything you posted here is either false, misleading, or just plain inaccurate :(

[Kardo]

Here's something that might be prudent for you to understand, when I go out and buy computers: I don't care. I don't have to care. Not everyone lives on a shoelace budget - not to mention I can reduce everything in taxes and get -22% off the price right off the bat when I write it down for the business.

I only care about the usability and getting work done.

Here's a perfect example of an iApple fan.

"when I go out and buy computers: I don't care. I don't have to care."

You actually need to be a moron to pay $1000 more just because it says Apple, but You're right, not everyone lives on a shoelace budget, neither am I but atleast not everyone has a brain sized of an peanut.

[instant.human]

I have a question...

What is everyone expecting? I mean by now we should know that we can't convince either side... We (both sides) tried reasonable arguments, we (both sides) tried insults and we (both sides) tried lies but nothings changed. Windows users still use Windows and Mac users still use Macs. And you know what? I see not problem with that.

So seriously, guys, what do you expect? Just asking...

[alexalex]

So I want to know from you. Have Macs evolved from a computer no creative professional could do without to what could largely be considered an overly pretty, expensive toy that designed to show off ones economic status? or are my criticisms largely over blown?

80% of first year students who bought a PC, bought Macs .

[OoTLink]

Various thoughts:

* Mac Pro: Intel Xeons, ECC memory, and the Xeon-specific boards are expensive. No doubt, you could build a machine with the desktop i7 equivalent of a Mac Pro for much less. Half as much? Dobutful. Even a $300 PC case tends to not be as well built as a Mac Pro case, relevant? Perhaps.

Unfortunately, Apple hasn't yet seemed to give a damn and won't be producing an i7 tower "for the rest of us"

* iMac: Not overpriced. They use IPS screens. That 27" costs $800-1200 from Dell (U2711?) and is a fantastic screen. Shame 3 years down the road it'll be tied to an outdated, possibly unsupported Mac. Awesome machine for the time being, though.

* MacBook: Good riddance? I had a 2nd gen MacBook - the screen was lousy, the case cracked, and the fan seemed to always run at full blast over the simplest stuff. I sold mine, but my brother still has one and the screen on his is even worse than the one on mine was. :(

* MacBook Air: Most people could probably live off the 13". The 11" is a little small but I've known people to use netbooks as their primary computer (OW!)

* MacBook Pro: Spendy, but so is anything else that nice. A Vaio Z can cost way more and still have painted plastic that fades within a year! HP Elitebooks, the Envy series, uh.. Lenovo Thinkpads of course are all competitors that cost nearly the same for what you get, and none of them really deliver the same balance. That, and the extra $$ comes back when you sell it in 2 years. Whopee.

The OS: It is the most trouble-free desktop unix/linux/bsd-ish operating system. Not only can you run a ton of commercial programs without touching that thing known as WINE, but you can run just about anything any other OS can run, too.. without dealing with that one thing that never seems to work right on a laptop when you run Linux on it. (I know, your Thinkpad T42p has full support.. go jump in the river please)

For 99% of Mac users that is probably meaningless :) For those people: It makes you fit in at Starbucks and people will think you drive a BMW. haha!

I'm currently using a Vaio F laptop - as a hackintosh it only works as a great desktop and as a linux laptop there are various issues that drive me crazy. My only option is to run Windows 7 on it, which is better than I thought it'd be but nothing to write home about. After 1 year the fan is a bit noisier than it used to be, still quieter than my old MacBook was, and the battery life is total *@#%. Some of the paint has faded too, so it looks old now :(

However, the 1920x1080 screen in a $1400 laptop? SO WORTH IT. Sony makes a 13" laptop with 1920x1080 too, and I'd love to have that! Why can't Apple offer higher res screens in their laptops :(

When I can afford a new Mac, I'll probably get one - perhaps a 27" iMac to replace my PowerMac G5 (that was a total craigslist bargain :D) Sadly, I'll still look like a freak in the coffee shops with my 16" Sony behemoth. It's annoying how I got flack for so many years as a "mac guy" when nobody liked them, now everyone and their dog loves Macs and iPhones and I'm using a Vaio. Wooh.Oh well. If it got better battery life I wouldn't even mind.. although I'd REALLY like to get back into OS X's programming environment :\

Also: Real nerds don't hate anything, they love all computers :)

[xxxxxx.xxxxxx]

People buy Apple products because they fit their lifestyle or profession. They buy them because of the hardware and built quality, their look, the operating system, the Applecare support and now because buying and using an Apple computer isn't all that different from buying and using an iPhone or iPad. Using a Mac before was a daunting task for some who stuck with windows all their days and didn't like change, now its as easy as using their iPhone.

So who are Apple marketing now? They are marketing all those people who bought an iPhone or iPad but still ran Windows at home.

[Jebadiah]

Does this mean that Apple is now forcing software makers for their Mac ecosystem to comply with Mac App Store guidelines? Although I am not sure, I am thinking this is the reason.

[ccuk]

Here's a perfect example of an iApple fan.

"when I go out and buy computers: I don't care. I don't have to care."

You actually need to be a moron to pay $1000 more just because it says Apple, but You're right, not everyone lives on a shoelace budget, neither am I but atleast not everyone has a brain sized of an peanut.

Pretty insulting to be honest.

Oddly enough, Apple machines are the only hardware that can run OSX legally. Also, if your business is focused round Apple software, then why are you a moron continuing that .It may very well be the case that the way the OS X system works as well as its features, make the workflow for that individual quicker and more productive. In that case they should be buying what ever is going to make them the most money.

[Mountain Dew]

Pretty insulting to be honest.

Oddly enough, Apple machines are the only hardware that can run OSX legally. Also, if your business is focused round Apple software, then why are you a moron continuing that .It may very well be the case that the way the OS X system works as well as its features, make the workflow for that individual quicker and more productive. In that case they should be buying what ever is going to make them the most money.

No, Apple machines are the only hardware that can run OS X as per the terms of the EULA.

The EULA has never been upheld with a legal precedent in the court systems that defined personal users of the software who have purchased it cannot install it on a system that they own.

The precedent has been established however that companies cannot create machines & install the MacOS on them to sell as complete systems.

Those are two very different ideas, and as of this point it is still legal to install OS X on a machine I own.

[instant.human]

No matter what you say, I will happily continue to use my Mac, just like many of you will continue using their Windows machines. :)

[ccuk]

No, Apple machines are the only hardware that can run OS X as per the terms of the EULA.

The EULA has never been upheld with a legal precedent in the court systems that defined personal users of the software who have purchased it cannot install it on a system that they own.

The precedent has been established however that companies cannot create machines & install the MacOS on them to sell as complete systems.

Those are two very different ideas, and as of this point it is still legal to install OS X on a machine I own.

You are applying the idea that this being accepted personally is also accepted in a business. No offence, but I don't fancy testing that with these guys http://www.bsa.org . It is one thing playing with that at home, quite another in a business environment where you earn money. That was my whole point.

[greenwizard88]

People buy Apple products because they fit their lifestyle or profession. They buy them because of the hardware and built quality, their look, the operating system, the Applecare support and now because buying and using an Apple computer isn't all that different from buying and using an iPhone or iPad. Using a Mac before was a daunting task for some who stuck with windows all their days and didn't like change, now its as easy as using their iPhone.

So who are Apple marketing now? They are marketing all those people who bought an iPhone or iPad but still ran Windows at home.

Yes. But anyone else, who wants a mac for reasons other than "I have an iPhone", is **** outa luck. I needed a new computer my freshman year of college. My parents bought me a mac. At the time, the cheapest MBP you could buy was the 15" for $2000. There was no 13". My parents got it for me, I learned final cut, photoshop, motion, java, and web development on it.

Fast foreward to 2011, I decided to get a PC. Apple doesn't care about the pro market anymore, and I will happily save myself/my parents some money by buying a Dell that costs 1/2 the price, has better specs of a MBP. The only fault is that it can't run Final Cut Pro, but seeing as it's actually iMovie Pro, and most true pro's I know are using Adobe or Avid, I don't consider myself left out.

And then there's all my friends. The only person I know who owns a mac, who would get another one, is a girl who puts 100% of her life into looking "hip" at starbucks. As the definition of hipster, she can't be seen anywhere besides starbucks, with a mac, ipod, iphone, and drawing pad. Everyone else I know thinks they're overpriced PC's, and there's no retention rate.

___________________________________________

If you look at it like that, it seems that Apple is catering towards new switchers, and trying desperately to lock them into a mac ecosystem by doing things like pushing "pro grade" tools onto an unsuspecting public, and then telling them that if they want to keep their files they need to stay in Apple world. A large portion of the public will go "I'll pay 2x-3x the cost for something that 'just works'", but I think a larger portion of the public will say "I'd rather keep my money in a recession and buy a PC instead". And so to keep the growth, Apple needs to keep creating switchers.

That's who they're marketing to.

[xWhiplash]

Let me rewrite what you wrote as to what it actually means:

I love Apple because I buy into the hype that they just work. Never mind the kernel panics or the fact that Apple products are the first to fall at events like Pwn2Own where real security people hit machines with attacks.

I don't know how to build a PC myself, and because of that I have to buy mine from companies that overcharge for the parts, and I pick Apple because they make pretty shiny metal cases.

I'll pass on a company like Newegg that offers affordable, quality parts because I wouldn't know what to do with the site if I visited it, or the parts if I did buy them.

Hold on, let me mention my age here, and then reverse it to make a point that I'm no longer that young, so I can make it look like I'm more mature of a person than my hipster mentality would make it seem.

HAHA!!!

If you think Apple builds quality you should do some more research since Apple doesn't actually build them. They hire 3rd party companies that take their designs & produce the machines. Those companies also produce machines for other companies, including some of the companies whose hardware you would likely ridicule.

So in essence, the joke is on you, in many ways.

So, the $20,000 question then.

What does 'OS X' do, that you cannot do with Windows?

As a reference to what was said by another poster earlier, I can also boot Windows & OS X on my PC and on my netbook. I just don't bother putting OS X on there as I honestly found I wasn't using it much.

I do install it every so often however to keep myself familiar enough with it in case someone has questions about it.

Wow you really hate macs dont you? Let me tell you something. I have had 6 Dells in my life so far. 4 of them kept getting BSOD nonstop, and I had to return 1 because my power supply literally "popped" while playing a game and fried the motherboard. I have had 3 Macs so far and have never had an issue or a Kernel Panic. So IN MY EXPERIENCE, Dell is the one company for me that never works. EVERY company has bad computers, you cannot blame Apple for an issue you had, but you can judge them on how it was treated. Which is another fault with Dell here. Talking to a guy from India when I had to return my computer that I could not understand. I had to say "What?" after everything he said. So very annoying. Meanwhile, Apple actually has people in America for support.

About Pwn2Own: So what? I practice safe internet habits, I bought the antivirus from ESET on the mac, I only visit 4 websites, and I have my system pretty much locked down. But you know what else? I havent had a virus or malware infection on Windows in the last 10 years.

How in the hell are they overcharging for their parts?! The iMac is an all-in-one. You CANNOT compare it with a standard desktop. The Mac Pro's have a Xeon processor, ECC memory, and Server grade motherboard to support the processor and memory. The processor alone costs over $1,000 on Newegg.

Finally, What does 'OS X' do: For me, it is a perfect operating system to work on production programs like Photoshop, After Effects, and so on. It also comes with Garageband which I love and use every week. Yes I have tried FL Studio and Sony Acid on Windows, but they do not compare with Garageband.

[Mountain Dew]

Wow you really hate macs dont you? Let me tell you something. I have had 6 Dells in my life so far. 4 of them kept getting BSOD nonstop, and I had to return 1 because my power supply literally "popped" while playing a game and fried the motherboard. I have had 3 Macs so far and have never had an issue or a Kernel Panic. So IN MY EXPERIENCE, Dell is the one company for me that never works. EVERY company has bad computers, you cannot blame Apple for an issue you had, but you can judge them on how it was treated. Which is another fault with Dell here. Talking to a guy from India when I had to return my computer that I could not understand. I had to say "What?" after everything he said. So very annoying. Meanwhile, Apple actually has people in America for support.

About Pwn2Own: So what? I practice safe internet habits, I bought the antivirus from ESET on the mac, I only visit 4 websites, and I have my system pretty much locked down. But you know what else? I havent had a virus or malware infection on Windows in the last 10 years.

How in the hell are they overcharging for their parts?! The iMac is an all-in-one. You CANNOT compare it with a standard desktop. The Mac Pro's have a Xeon processor, ECC memory, and Server grade motherboard to support the processor and memory. The processor alone costs over $1,000 on Newegg.

Finally, What does 'OS X' do: For me, it is a perfect operating system to work on production programs like Photoshop, After Effects, and so on. It also comes with Garageband which I love and use every week. Yes I have tried FL Studio and Sony Acid on Windows, but they do not compare with Garageband.

I actually don't hate them at all. What I do hate is people who try to ram down other people's throats the whole Mac is better elitist crap.

It's not better or worse. It's just overpriced when you compared items piece by piece.

Heck I intend to pick up a MacBook Air at some point, or would if they'd add a real GPU in there instead of the integrated Intel crap. That's the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on a a MBAir purchase right now. I'd love to be able to dual boot without having to worry about grabbing newly compiled updates for my machine to avoid screwing it over everything there's an update.

[SaltLife]

I actually don't hate them at all. What I do hate is people who try to ram down other people's throats the whole Mac is better elitist crap.

It's not better or worse. It's just overpriced when you compared items piece by piece.

Heck I intend to pick up a MacBook Air at some point, or would if they'd add a real GPU in there instead of the integrated Intel crap. That's the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on a a MBAir purchase right now. I'd love to be able to dual boot without having to worry about grabbing newly compiled updates for my machine to avoid screwing it over everything there's an update.

And they are all overpriced when compared to a linux distro...

I see more mac users on here defending themselves vs ramming elitist crap down peoples throats, not that either is any better.

But, I agree to each their own, if they choose to purchase a mac, so be it. If they go with windows okay.. But don't compare the two or even claim one is better. They are each their own entity and provide a different experience...

[xWhiplash]

I actually don't hate them at all. What I do hate is people who try to ram down other people's throats the whole Mac is better elitist crap.

It's not better or worse. It's just overpriced when you compared items piece by piece.

Heck I intend to pick up a MacBook Air at some point, or would if they'd add a real GPU in there instead of the integrated Intel crap. That's the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on a a MBAir purchase right now. I'd love to be able to dual boot without having to worry about grabbing newly compiled updates for my machine to avoid screwing it over everything there's an update.

Um not really. Aluminum + OS Price + iLife + No advertisements or bloat + no NEED for antivirus software (I have ESET Cybersecurity though) + best trackpad compared to anything on other PCs = Makes the pricing worth it IMO. If you do not like or want those things then fine. But many people (myself included) obviously like the look and feel of a Mac.

Bottom line, they are not really overpriced. Disagree? Show me a comparison that matches the Mac in every detail. Do not show me a comparison of what YOU WANT, but the actual technologies because using better technologies cost more to produce. I guarantee you, the prices will be very similar.

I did the same when I wanted a new PC. The Dell I wanted was an i7 2.66Ghz, 8GB DDR3 ram, and 500GB hard drive (at the time) and was $1,600. The Mac I wanted was $2,300 Quad core Xeon 2.8Ghz, 6GB of DDR ECC ram, and 500GB Hard drive. Factor in the massive price difference between consumer-grade and server-grade hardware (even on Newegg), no advertisements or trials of software, the need for Garageband, the brilliant case design (it literally took me 30 seconds to add 2 hard drives to the computer with no extra cables or connections), and the second best OS at the moment (nothing beats Windows 7 at the moment). Is it overpriced? No, not at all. Oh and that Dell failed 4 months into its life (the one that had the power supply pop during gameplay).

+SaltLife: I agree. I have a Dell XPS and a Mac Pro on the same desk and use them both equally. Both have advantages and disadvantages. It just really bothers me when people say a $400 Dell is MUCH better than a $1,800 Mac. If you do an actual comparison, you will find out they pricing will actually be very similar.