+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted August 19, 2011 Subscriber¹ Share Posted August 19, 2011 Russia and Europe plan a manned mission to Mars Europe will carry out the first manned mission to Mars together with Russia. Head of the European Space Agency Jean-Jacques Dordain stated this when he visited the International Aviation and Space Salon, MAKS-2011, now under way in Zhukovsky near Moscow. He gave no timeframe, but head of the Russian Space Agency Vladimir Popovkin welcomed his European counterpart?s idea concerning the coordination of the future project. The dream of human beings going to Mars has a long history, and at present, mankind is very close to implement such a project. Some time ago, an interest in the planet was linked to the possibility of encountering with humanoids. Later, it became clear that the probability of such a meeting is almost zero, although some kind of life could be found there. The significance of a manned mission to Mars is beyond the search for extraterrestrial life. According to scientists, Mars is the only promising planet in the Solar System from the standpoint of colonization. Perhaps, this may be the reason why the U.S. has declared a manned mission to Mars a national programme. However, over 50-year experience in space exploration shows that coordinated efforts in this area provide better results than competition. At the same time, it?s no easy task to achieve mutual understanding in all areas, says analyst of the Moscow-based journal ?Novosti Kosmonavtike? or ?News of Cosmonautics? Igor Lisov: ?Space exploration history teaches us that even assurance given by the U.S. President is insufficient to implement a space programme linked to complicated targets. For example, only one out of the three attempts to fly to the moon was realized. Similarly, the decision of the space agencies and their agreement on a manned mission could not be implemented without the support of the leaders of the countries, in this case, Russia and the European states. Organization of such a mission is the government?s task. In the future, it will be intergovernmental work,? says Igor Lisov. In fact, there is an intergovernmental decision to this end. In 2006, the member states of the European Space Agency, adopted a large-scale project to launch the ?EkzoMars? rover in which Russia will be directly involved. The rover will be launched by the Russian-built Proton rocket in 2013 and it will be partially supplied with Russian equipment. However, the launch of a manned mission to Mars depends on the leaders of Russia and the member states of the ESA, says Igor Lisov. ?If they decide to implement an emergency programme, the mission may be carried out in ten years. If it is an ordinary one, then it will take 20 years. This is a long period of time,? Igor Lisov said. Meanwhile, Russia is coordinating closely with the European Space agency in carrying out the Mars-500 experiment. This is the third, 520-day stage of the experiment. The experiment simulates a manned flight to Mars at a facility located in Moscow. During the ongoing experiment the crew stepped on to the simulated Mars surface several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Without a heavy launcher in the Falcon Heavy class or larger it won't happen. Maybe Elon will give them a discounted rate ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Lots of luck to the dead astronauts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted August 19, 2011 Author Subscriber¹ Share Posted August 19, 2011 Without a heavy launcher in the Falcon Heavy class or larger it won't happen. Maybe Elon will give them a discounted rate ;) Who says Russia doesn't have one of her own? Energia can take twice as much load up to the orbit as Falcon Heavy can (100,000 vs 53,000)... It's not so "heavy" now, is it? ;) :rofl: /sarcasm off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahhell Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 They need to build the Mars ship in space. Once they got the infrastructure in place, it would be much cheaper in the long run., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guru Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Who says Russia doesn't have one of her own? Energia can take twice as much load up to the orbit as Falcon Heavy can (100,000 vs 53,000)... It's not so "heavy" now, is it? ;) :rofl: /sarcasm off to be fair. it is discontinued now.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energia are they reviving it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Status: Retired Launch sites: Baikonur Total launches: 2 Successes: 1 (Buran's only flight) Partial failures: 1 (payload failed to reach orbit) Maiden flight: 15 May 1987 Last flight: 15 November 1988 Energia never really was an operational system what with only 1 successful mission and godawful costs per flight, but its 4-chamber RD-170 engine has a rich legacy including the 2-chamber RD-180 variant used to power the US's Atlas V launcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted August 20, 2011 Author Subscriber¹ Share Posted August 20, 2011 The point is the technology was there 20+ years ago. And yes, newer, more effecient super heavy launchers are being developed (Angara and Rus-M). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Rus-M: 23.8+ MT to LEO (no earlier than 2015) Rus-M heavy: 50 - 60 MT (NET 2020) Rus-M super-heavy: development start NET 2030, funding ? Angara 1.2/3/5: 3.7 - 28.5 MT to LEO (the 1st stage is used on South Korea?s KSLV-1 which has had 2 launches & both failed. Next attempt 2013) Angara 7: 40.5+ MT to LEO (as yet unfunded and has had other issues) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted August 21, 2011 Author Subscriber¹ Share Posted August 21, 2011 Funding is the least of the worries now since, the economy aside, Russia has been profiting pretty well from shuttle's unfortunate retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 $60M a seat at a few seats a year doesn't pay for much development. Not to mention commercial crew taking that cash cow away in 3-4 years tops. Then there is that Boeing, Sierra Nevada are planning on selling CST-100 & Dream Chaser internationally like they do aircraft & satellites. They are to be launcher agnostic and use international standard satellite interfaces to the booster. Just build a physical adapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 so many astro-scientists in neowin. instead of saying what will work here, you should pitch it to the government agencies to help them, they would gladly pay you for your insider knowledge and know-how ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 so many astro-scientists in neowin. instead of saying what will work here, you should pitch it to the government agencies to help them, they would gladly pay you for your insider knowledge and know-how ;) I have my congressman & senators on speed dial ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 stop bickering, this isn't a Russia vs US thing, we're all in this together. i think Mr. Lisov's timelines is hopelessly pessimistic. if we really wanted to we could mount a heavy Mars mission in less than six months. ten years is being snail-pace leisurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 stop bickering, this isn't a Russia vs US thing, we're all in this together. i think Mr. Lisov's timelines is hopelessly pessimistic. if we really wanted to we could mount a heavy Mars mission in less than six months. ten years is being snail-pace leisurely. Absolutely. I don't care WHO does this, as long as it gets done! It's high time we got our collective backsides off this planet and taking a look around the rest of the solar system. Maybe if the world as a whole concentrated on stuff like this we could pool out extensive resources towards making it far cheaper to do instead of busying ourselves with killing each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 well said Baron, and good to have you back, it's been a while since i've seen you around here! couldn't have said it better myself. how are we supposed to get to Geidi Prime if we can't even make the trip to Mars without squabbling like little children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey B. Veteran Posted September 1, 2011 Veteran Share Posted September 1, 2011 I agree that the best solution would be to build the vessel in space such as they have done with the Space station however, the only problem with that is we have stopped using the only vessel capable of carrying parts up there to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 You give the Shuttle too much credit. It could only loft 23-24 metric tons with a maximum diameter of less than 4.6 meters, the width of its payload bay. In the real world you need clearances, so.... Falcon Heavy will do 53 then 60+ metric tons (Falcon Heavy-H) of at least a 5.2 meter diameter, perhaps as much as 7 meters with a custom fairing. Atlas V Heavy, if built, would deliver FH level performance but at much higher costs. IF the NASA Space Launch System gets built (big if) it would loft 75-130 metric tons with an 8 meter diameter. Any of these are far and away better than Shuttle for building big things & interplanetary vehicles like Nautilus-X in orbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 we'll get there neutrino, don't despair. as Doc says, there are quite a few options coming up. we will be a lot smarter in a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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