Bisexual men: Science says they're real


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Shadrack

So when I say that I reject homosexuality, they should just accept it, right? It's all just subjective morals at the end of the day, right?

Why then do I see people being called bigots for it?

Because a bigot is (according to Wikipedia):

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.

And there is clearly a lot of animosity in a lot of these posts.

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NJ Louch
Why then do I see people being called bigots for it?

Because an unarguably biggotted opinion was posted. It was "backed up" by claims made from an unarguable biggotted source.

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FloatingFatMan

So when I say that I reject homosexuality, they should just accept it, right? It's all just subjective morals at the end of the day, right?

Why then do I see people being called bigots for it?

No one says you have to accept it, but nor do you have the right to tell them how to live their lives, or insult them because they're doing something you don't like, or restrict their rights in any way, shape or form.

Which is exactly what most homophobic people do.

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dknm

This was a most interesting read. There's so much bigotry and unjust entitlement.

Whoever has any beef with another's sexuality is himself insecure. Thinking scientifically, I am inclined to believe that attraction is indeed not in our power to control. A great deal of research has been documented on the human brain with respect to what physical and chemical adaptations occur in people that have a violent behavior (killers, rapists,paedophiles) or disregard the natural conservation instinct (risk takers, gamblers, etc). Maybe we'll find something similar about sexual desire.

Fast forwarding over the religious bull and the failed syllogisms that some have tried their hand at, there are two things I fail to understand.

Firstly, who cares about anyone's private life? Society holds arbitrary values and, for some time, being gay is tolerated in western societies - a great leap from its former disease labeling (mental retardation akin to Down Syndrome , that's rich :laugh:). It looks as if a vocal minority suffering from persecution mania feel the need to flaunt their status and go to such extreme lengths that now children have to learn about gay history? Since when do historic acts keep track of one's sexuality? THAT is pushing an agenda too far and goes dangerously close to glamorizing a lifestyle with malign intent.

Secondly, one would argue that considering something natural if a corespondent in the animal world is to be found is not true. Nature is a result of controlled mutations. When something goes off the genetic hardwiring, the first thing nature does is to cut any means to perpetuate those genes - aka not being able to have offspring sharing the genetic pool. Consider this scientific view and then ask yourself : is a same sex relationship the optimal ( read : nature holds as 'normal' the optimal/robust build and/or partnership) intended way for a sustainable and ever-evolving life cycle?

Be discrete and live free with whomever makes you feel loved.

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+Mirumir

My lips? They're not for kissing. Kissing is not natural. It's something humans invented.

I'm sorry, but you can't be more wrong. Kissing is absolutely natural.

...

Non-human primates also exhibit kissing behavior.

...

Kissing in humans is postulated to have evolved from the direct mouth-to-mouth regurgitation of food (kiss feeding) from parent to offspring or male to female (courtship feeding) and has been been observed in numerous mammals.

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Hum

Maybe kissing is natural, but I have never had an overwhelming desire to kiss. :p

Be discrete and live free with whomever makes you feel loved.

Bravo.

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+Mirumir

Maybe kissing is natural, but I have never had an overwhelming desire to kiss. :p

That's fine. It's what makes us unique in our own ways.

So as long as your significant other doesn't have a mania for kissing you, you should be fine :rofl:

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TheElite

No one says you have to accept it, but nor do you have the right to tell them how to live their lives, or insult them because they're doing something you don't like, or restrict their rights in any way, shape or form.

Which is exactly what most homophobic people do.

A homosexual must accept my right to disagree with them then as well.

Insults are subjective. I don't know what a homosexual may or may not find insulting. Most now-a-days start frothing at the mouth when you say that you disagree with the concept of homosexuality.

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devBrian

If you don't have anything nice to say, you know how it goes...

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TheElite

If you don't have anything nice to say, you know how it goes...

A context-less saying shouldn't stop one from speaking their mind. Even I can do it, "The truth is always bitter".

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DaveLegg

Insults are subjective. I don't know what a homosexual may or may not find insulting.

I'm pretty sure most people you meet in the street would feel insulted if you labelled them as "mentally retarded" or any of the other insults that have been thrown around in this thread.

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TheElite

I'm pretty sure most people you meet in the street would feel insulted if you labelled them as "mentally retarded" or any of the other insults that have been thrown around in this thread.

I wouldn't start conversations about homosexuality to people I meet in the street. Any friends that I have that do associate themselves with this sort of behaviour already know my opinion on the subject. They may dislike it or even down right condemn it, but it is an opinion after all. It is not my job to make them accept it.

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Hardcore Til I Die

It is this kind of thinking that allows things like pedophilia to be someday accepted by our increasingly repugnant society, and yes, someday it will.

Morals never change, and they don't come from people's opinions. They are absolute and come from our singular, historical nature. We all know them from the day we are born, and it takes a lot of programming to stop living up to those inbuilt morals.

I'm done talking to you. Every person who has displayed this kind of thinking to me has shown they are capable of much degeneracy, and there is no reasoning with them.

You're being ridiculous.

Two (fe)male adults who are capable of thinking for themselves deciding to be together is one thing, an adult and a child who is not always capable of thinking for themselves nor do they have sexual thoughts, is another thing entirely.

Paedophilia will NEVER be accepted.

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devBrian

I wouldn't start conversations about homosexuality to people I meet in the street. Any friends that I have that do associate themselves with this sort of behaviour already know my opinion on the subject. They may dislike it or even down right condemn it, but it is an opinion after all. It is not my job to make them accept it.

I believe it's anyone's right to hate or discriminate, but do it internally or mention it only when asked. Also, not being combative about it helps.

But honestly, what harm does homosexuality do to you? Are you constantly being bombarded by males wearing corsets or something?

Edit: On the pedophilia issue, I don't believe that it will be accepted per se, but I think that mutual relationships involving someone 16 and say, for example, 40 won't be looked down on as much as it is today.

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TheElite

I believe it's anyone's right to hate or discriminate, but do it internally or mention it only when asked. Also, not being combative about it helps.

But honestly, what harm does homosexuality do to you? Are you constantly being bombarded by males wearing corsets or something?

Homosexuality does no harm to me. To one who looks from the outside, it only seems to harm those who pursue such a lifestyle.

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WelshBluebird

Morals never change, and they don't come from people's opinions. They are absolute and come from our singular, historical nature. We all know them from the day we are born, and it takes a lot of programming to stop living up to those inbuilt morals.

lol.

Except of course you are wrong. Morals do change.

We used to think it is ok to marry girls at age 12. Now we think that is wrong and sick.

We used to think it is ok for men to have their way with their wife whatever. Now we respect the wifes choice in the matter.

Etc etc etc.

Homosexuality does no harm to me. It only harms those who pursue such a lifestyle.

Care to explain?

How does being in a loving relationship with a member of same sex harm that person?

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Hardcore Til I Die

Care to explain?

How does being in a loving relationship with a member of same sex harm that person?

Don't waste your breath, these people aren't wired up properly :p

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Calum

Homosexuality does no harm to me. To one who looks from the outside, it only seems to harm those who pursue such a lifestyle.

Homosexuality causes no harm to anyone who engages in a homosexual relationship. Homosexuality didn't even cause any harm to those who contracted AIDS from unsafe homosexual sexual activity; the unsafe sexual activity caused that harm.

Many homosexuals lead healthy, fullfilling lives.

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TheElite

Except of course you are wrong. Morals do change.

Actually they don't.

We used to think it is ok to marry girls at age 12. Now we think that is wrong and sick.

We used to think it is ok for men to have their way with their wife whatever. Now we respect the wifes choice in the matter.

Etc etc etc.

Things that you have listed were never moral in the first place. People did them out of selfish desire. And some will carry on doing what they like with disregard for true morals.

Care to explain?

How does being in a loving relationship with a member of same sex harm that person?

As you can see I edited that post to make it hopefully a little more clearer.

Going on from what I posted before, a person can fool themselves all they want that they are in a loving relationship. But a loving relationship has its own fruits, including intimacy with the partner and if one goes that far, children. Homosexuals only delude themselves if they believe that they are able to attain these things from their relationships. People only mean one thing when they talk about intimacy and that's sex, something impossible for both homosexual partners to share with one another. No wonder that homosexuality wasn't accepted in the western world hundreds or thousands of years ago. There was no way to make it work. In the 21st century, you can adopt children, have tools to make oneself have an orgasm and so on. That is why it is more common now.

That is why people in loving heterosexual relationships find homosexual relationships to be a sham or a waste of time. They don't get any of the benefit but all of the headache.

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FloatingFatMan

Homosexuality does no harm to me. To one who looks from the outside, it only seems to harm those who pursue such a lifestyle.

If they felt it did them harm, they wouldn't pursue their feelings against the same sex. Seeing as they DO, and quite obviously are NOT harmed by it, your opinion is rendered incontinent.

The only harm they suffer is when people who refuse to accept how they live their lives and try to force them to change, or even physically attack them.

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WelshBluebird

Things that you have listed were never moral in the first place. People did them out of selfish desire. And some will carry on doing what they like with disregard for true morals.

We think they were never moral. But the people at the time DID think they were moral.

Slavery is another example. At the time, people thought it was fine. Now, we do not think it is fine. Things change.

Going on from what I posted before, a person can fool themselves all they want that they are in a loving relationship. But a loving relationship has its own fruits, including intimacy with the partner and if one goes that far, children. Homosexuals only delude themselves if they believe that they are able to attain these things from their relationships. People only mean one thing when they talk about intimacy and that's sex, something impossible for both homosexual partners to share with one another. No wonder that homosexuality wasn't accepted in the western world hundreds or thousands of years ago. There was no way to make it work. In the 21st century, you can adopt children, have tools to make oneself have an orgasm and so on. That is why it is more common now.

Please stop making it seem like children are needed for a relationship. They are not. Many loving couples who are straight do not have children either.

Children having nothing at all to do with it.

And what, why is sex impossible for homosexual partners blink.gif. And they certainly can give each other orgasms.

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Calum

A homosexual must accept my right to disagree with them then as well.

Insults are subjective. I don't know what a homosexual may or may not find insulting. Most now-a-days start frothing at the mouth when you say that you disagree with the concept of homosexuality.

How would you feel if people told you that your heterosexuality is wrong, if many heterosexuals were beaten up daily by people who hold views like yours, if many heterosexuals faced prison sentences or the death penalty merely because of their sexual orientation, and if many heterosexuals had to face depression/sadness daily merely because their friends and family (and many in society) irrationally do not accept their sexual orientation?

Any decent person who considers the facts and science behind attraction and sexuality knows there is absolutely nothing wrong with same-sex attraction because same-sex attraction harms absolutely no one. That is why you being against it should not be accepted as much as someone who is against something that actually harms people. You might think I'm merely voicing my opinion here, and I am, but anyone who is against homosexuality has to accept that they are an indecent, horrible, and closed-minded human being who is contributing to the oppression of people who do not deserve to be oppressed.

Furthermore, if you feel it is fine to continue to promote the idea that homosexuality is wrong, you must also agree that it is fine for people to promote the idea that being African is wrong, or that women should obey their husbands and do everything their husbands tell them to. I'm not saying you shouldn't feel that is fine, I'm just pointing out that being against homosexuality is just as indecent as holding those views.

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FloatingFatMan

Actually they don't.

Things that you have listed were never moral in the first place. People did them out of selfish desire. And some will carry on doing what they like with disregard for true morals.

As usual, wrong, but don't let reality stop you from spouting nonsense.

As you can see I edited that post to make it hopefully a little more clearer.

Going on from what I posted before, a person can fool themselves all they want that they are in a loving relationship. But a loving relationship has its own fruits, including intimacy with the partner and if one goes that far, children. Homosexuals only delude themselves if they believe that they are able to attain these things from their relationships. People only mean one thing when they talk about intimacy and that's sex, something impossible for both homosexual partners to share with one another. No wonder that homosexuality wasn't accepted in the western world hundreds or thousands of years ago. There was no way to make it work. In the 21st century, you can adopt children, have tools to make oneself have an orgasm and so on. That is why it is more common now.

That is why people in loving heterosexual relationships find homosexual relationships to be a sham or a waste of time. They don't get any of the benefit but all of the headache.

Once again, you're dictating to others what they should get from a relationship. Who they should love, what they should do.. Who gave you that right? YOU might mean sex when you talk about intimacy, but not everyone does. Hell, one of my best friends is a post-operative m-f transgendered person. As far as she's concerned she's 100% female, but she's ALSO 100% asexual. She likes to cuddle a lot, she considers that a wonderful expression of intimacy that she likes to share with her closest friends, but she's absolutely and completely UNinterested in sex, period.

That's HER choice, and nobody gets to dictate to her whether that's right or wrong. All you're doing is demonstrating your complete arrogance by telling people what they can or can't do.

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TheElite

If they felt it did them harm, they wouldn't pursue their feelings against the same sex. Seeing as they DO, and quite obviously are NOT harmed by it, your opinion is rendered incontinent.

The only harm they suffer is when people who refuse to accept how they live their lives and try to force them to change, or even physically attack them.

People do things that aren't beneficial, and in turn harm them, all the time. This is no different.

How would you feel if people told you that your heterosexuality is wrong, if many heterosexuals were beaten up daily by people who hold views like yours, if many heterosexuals faced prison sentences or the death penalty merely because of their sexual orientation, and if many heterosexuals had to face depression/sadness daily merely because their friends and family (and many in society) irrationally do not accept their sexual orientation?

To call heterosexuality wrong is to say that food should go in from the backside and excreted from the mouth. That's how nonsense that statement is.

I do feel bad for those homosexuals that face physical abuse/assault, I really do. But there is nothing irrational about not accepting the homosexual lifestyle.

Any decent person who considers the facts and science behind attraction and sexuality knows there is absolutely nothing wrong with same-sex attraction because same-sex attraction harms absolutely no one. That is why you being against it should not be accepted as much as someone who is against something that actually harms people. You might think I'm merely voicing my opinion here, and I am, but anyone who is against homosexuality has to accept that they are an indecent, horrible, and closed-minded human being who is contributing to the oppression of people who do not deserve to be oppressed.

I believe that a homosexual that is close-minded about others having their own opinion on the topic is as bad. And again, that's my opinion.

And also, there has to be something wrong with same-sex attraction if the partners can't mate. Homosexuals can't.

Furthermore, if you feel it is fine to continue to promote the idea that homosexuality is wrong, you must also agree that it is fine for people to promote the idea that being African is wrong, or that women should obey their husbands and do everything their husbands tell them to. I'm not saying you shouldn't feel that is fine, I'm just pointing out that being against homosexuality is just as indecent as holding those views.

Not really. People are born African, a person isn't born homosexual.

Once again, you're dictating to others what they should get from a relationship. Who they should love, what they should do.. Who gave you that right? YOU might mean sex when you talk about intimacy, but not everyone does. Hell, one of my best friends is a post-operative m-f transgendered person. As far as she's concerned she's 100% female, but she's ALSO 100% asexual. She likes to cuddle a lot, she considers that a wonderful expression of intimacy that she likes to share with her closest friends, but she's absolutely and completely UNinterested in sex, period.

That's HER choice, and nobody gets to dictate to her whether that's right or wrong. All you're doing is demonstrating your complete arrogance by telling people what they can or can't do.

Please don't give me an example about a transgendered person to further your view. All you're doing is reinforcing the idea held by some that homosexuals and transgenders have a got a screw loose somewhere,

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TheLegendOfMart

Nevermind.

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