Hum Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 MOSCOW ? An unmanned Russian supply ship bound for the International Space Station failed to reach its planned orbit Wednesday, and pieces of it fell in Siberia amid a thunderous explosion, officials said. A brief statement from Roscosmos, Russia's space agency, did not specify whether the Progress supply ship that was launched from the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan had been lost. But the state news agency RIA Novosti quoted Alexander Borisov, head of a the Choisky region in Russia's Altai province, as saying pieces of the craft fell in his area some 1,500 kilometers (900 miles) northeast of the launch site. "The explosion was so strong that for 100 kilometers (60 miles) glass almost flew out of the windows," he was quoted as saying. Borisov said there were no immediate reports of casualties. The ITAR-Tass news agency quoted Choisky's Interior Ministry as saying the space ship crashed in a vast Siberian forest that contains small villages. Yuri Shmyrin, the chief of Karakoksha, one of those villages, told Interfax news agency that the search operation for the wreckage is not likely to start until Thursday morning. Roscosmos said the third stage of the rocket firing the ship into space failed a few minutes into the launch. The ship was carrying more than 2.5 tons of supplies, including oxygen, food and fuel. Since the ending of the U.S. space shuttle program this summer, Russian spaceships are a main supply link to the space station. more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudtrooper Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Getting to space is dangerous! Hopefully they don't cancel their program now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigby Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Well it's a good thing we aren't relying on Russia to get people and supplies to and from the ISS now...oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryoken Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Well it's a good thing we aren't relying on Russia to get people and supplies to and from the ISS now...oh wait. Russia has lost fewer people in space flights than the US has, 1971 being the last time they lost someone in a manned space fight. Not to say that their stuff is much safer than the Shuttle was, but they aren't sending people up in death ships or anything.. And in space fight, accidents happen, it's dangerous stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallithrax Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Good job they sent all that food and stuff up with the last shuttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCordRm Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Man, that sucks ass. Hopefully, they've got enough oxygen up there to last until another supply ship can be outfitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangozero6 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Russia has lost fewer people in space flights than the US has, 1971 being the last time they lost someone in a manned space fight. Not to say that their stuff is much safer than the Shuttle was, but they aren't sending people up in death ships or anything.. And in space fight, accidents happen, it's dangerous stuff. You may be correct in terms of men lost in flight, however Russia has lost far more on the ground while trying to get to space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallithrax Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Man, that sucks ass. Hopefully, they've got enough oxygen up there to last until another supply ship can be outfitted. NASA is counting on Russia as well as Japan and Europe to keep the orbiting outpost stocked, now that the space shuttles are no longer flying. The shuttle program ended in July with the Atlantis mission; a year's worth of food and other provisions were delivered. Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1VyZ4ovzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCordRm Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yea, I got that. My point is that sh*t happens. I hope they've got what they need up there to hold out until a replacement ship is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredBozirini Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 You may be correct in terms of men lost in flight, however Russia has lost far more on the ground while trying to get to space. Are we talking about the times of the USSR? Because USA still ranks as the country where most astronauts have died during spaceflight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 There have been as many, or more (some are known but not acknowledged), fatal Russian flights as the US. We have more deaths only because we fly larger crews; up to 7 on the Shuttle and coming Commercial Crew ships vs. just 3 on Soyuz TMA. There has been much concern the last few years about quality control slipping in the Russian program, and this isn't going to alleviate those concerns. This was an upper dtage failure which may well have been an explosion - not good. Making matters worse is that there have been 2 straight failures of the Briz-M upper stage on their Proton rocket, the most recent being last week when a big telecommunications satellite was lost. Because of there being so much commonality between Progress and Soyuz TMA launches, a prolonged investigation into these failures could delay both Soyuz TMA crew replacement and Progress cargo flights to the ISS. Fortunately the last shuttle flight took up some extra supplies, but the next Progress was also to take up needed new docking hardware. This ratchets up the pressure to get SpaceX's Dragon C2/C3 flight to ISS as soon as possible. Already plans have begun to put at least 800 kg of cargo on the Nov. 30 test flight to help make up for the Progress failure, with more possible. Also being mentioned is the need for a Crew Dragon to get out of the barn ASAP as it's the closest new crew ship to completion. This will require the Super Draco launch escape/landing thrusters, which start testing at White Sands soon. It also highlights the importance of having multiple spacecraft available for both cargo and crew duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Dup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Hope they don't need toilet paper ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 It's hit the fan - there are already calls in and out of Congress to increase funding to the US Commercial Crew and Commercial Cargo programs, transferring as yet unallocated funds from other programs if necessary. Also, this from Russia - RIA Novosti.... MOSCOW, August 24 (RIA Novosti)Russia may fail to fulfill its obligations in delivering crews to the International Space Station after Wednesday's accident with Russia's Progress M-12M space freighter, a source in Russia's space industry said. The space freighter fell in South Siberia's Altai Republic on Wednesday after failing to separate from the Soyuz-U carrier rocket, the first loss of the Progress freighter in the history of Russia?s space industry. A rocket engine failure is believed to have caused the accident. "The scheduled launches of the [soyuz] rockets are likely to be suspended because of the space freighter accident... until the reasons [of the accident] are established," the source said. This means that members of the International Space Station's crew are likely to stay at the station longer than planned and that the new crew will not be able to replace them on schedule, he said. After the retirement of the U.S. shuttle fleet earlier this summer, Russian Soyuz craft became the only way for astronauts to reach the ISS until at least the middle of the decade. NASA is paying its Russian counterpart Roscosmos more than $1 billion for crew transport services over the next four years. The Soyuz-U carrier rocket blasted off from the Baikonur Space Center in Kazakhstan and was scheduled to separate at 5:09 p.m. Moscow time [13:09 GMT]. The source said the engine failure made it impossible for the spacecraft to achieve the required orbital velocity. The Progress freighter was insured for 3 billion rubles ($103 million) by the Russian Insurance Center company, its representative said. The space freighter was to deliver 2.7 tons of food, medical and scientific equipment, and other items to the ISS, the source said. Russian space agency Roscosmos promised that the failure to deliver food to the ISS would not affect its crew, saying that food stocks on board the ISS were enough to sustain the crew for a ?long time.? Russian cosmonauts Andrei Borisenko, Alexander Samokutyayev and Sergei Volkov, as well as NASA astronauts Ronald Garan and Michael Fossum and Japanese astronaut Satoshi Furukawa are currently working on the ISS. The next Progress cargo ship will not fly to the ISS before late September-early October, Gennady Raikunov, head of the Central Scientific Research Institute of Machine Manufacturing, said. A special commission was created from representatives of Roscosmos and other space industry organizations to investigate the accident. Russia has carried out more than 130 successful launches of Progress space freighters since they entered service in 1972. Wednesday's accident is the second spacecraft loss for the Russian space industry in within a week. On August 18, the Express AM-4 telecommunications satellite failed to separate from the Proton-M carrier rocket and could not reach the designated orbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted August 25, 2011 Subscriber¹ Share Posted August 25, 2011 It is true that Russia has suffered a substantial reputation loss because of this incident and the one before it. Fortunately, no one was hurt and a bunch of transistors won't be missed. The Russian space agency's management has been replaced so hopefully the quality control will get back on the track soon. p.s. The last time Russian/Soviet astronauts died was 40 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 still have full confidence in the Russian space industry, although it has been a bad week. the world will get over it, these rockets can be replaced. in fact they should be replaced by an actual single stage system, though i know Doc hates those. i agree with Doc that these incidents show us that multiple platforms are the way to go, and that US-based organizations need to step up their efforts. not saying that we should benefit from these incidents with Russian rockets, not at all, but if it helps wake people in the US up, that's one positive. McCord, i'm pretty sure the ISS makes its own oxygen, it doesn't get shipped up, but Doc can correct me if i'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The ISS uses a complex Environmental Control and Life Support System (ECLSS) plus bottled O2 and Russian Elektron chemical oxygen generators. Below is a diagram of the ISS ECLSS loops. A spacecraft agnostic ECLSS developed by Paragon as part of the Commrrcial Crew program shrinks most of this this to a single box under a meter long. Paragon system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted August 25, 2011 Member Share Posted August 25, 2011 Well, these things happen. I'm just glad no people were on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Still, because of the upper stage issues Russia has grounded the Soyuz and Proton fleets - at the least. Have to check on others that may have sharted systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neoadorable Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 grounding the fleet makes no sense, the world needs them active. and i knew asking about oxygen on the ISS would land me info from Doc i'd need a PhD to fathom :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Grounding the Soyuz fleet makes a lot of sense given the commonality between the Soyuz-U (cargo) and Soyuz-FG (crew) launchers. The 2nd stage obviously had a major malfunction and until the Russians finish gathering data, both telemetry and pieces that survived re-entry, they can't even begin to start an investigation. We also don't know yet if a hardware or software upgrade had been done recently. It sounds like the European ATV cargo vehicle won't get there until March and Japans HTV until May. One Soyuz crew vehicle currently parked at ISS times out around February and at that time half the 6 person ISS crew would have to come home. Not much research will get done after that. Fortunately, the ISS was recently re-boosted and is high enough for that not to be a problem. Latest info from SpaceX says NASA is choosing to use its option to put real cargo on the Dragon C2/C3 test flight in November. Most likely consumables. A test flight of Orbital Science's Cygnus is running late and may not fly until late January or February, and there's no word if it'll carry anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guru Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 still have full confidence in the Russian space industry, although it has been a bad week. the world will get over it, these rockets can be replaced. in fact they should be replaced by an actual single stage system, though i know Doc hates those. +1 they dont call it rocket science for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I don't "hate" SSTO as with Venture Star, it's just that it's harder than people like to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_Deleted Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Doc, this may be a stupid question, but I thought NASA just stopped the shuttle program, not the unmanned rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 NASA stopped the shuttle. US commercial cargo & crew to ISS are ramping up, and Atlas V, Delta and Falcon 9 satellite launches are still flying. No prolem there The Russian cargo and crew to ISS using Soyuz launchers and Proton satlite launches are on hold until they figure out what's going on with their second stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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