A sad farewell to the 60 Watt bulb

[jackkk1]

It?ll be good for the environment and our wallets though, on long term.

And they'll be "good" for your health too (especially when you brake them):

http://bkcreative.hubpages.com/hub/Are-Low-Energy-Bulbs-Harmful-to-Your-Health

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=are-compact-fluorescent-lightbulbs-dangerous

[HawkMan]

Halogen anyone?

Yes, we already covered them, they're fragile, expensive and uses practically as much power as regular bulbs, at best they claim 30% savings, with reality closer to 10-15%

And they'll be "good" for your health too (especially when you brake them):

http://bkcreative.hubpages.com/hub/Are-Low-Energy-Bulbs-Harmful-to-Your-Health

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=are-compact-fluorescent-lightbulbs-dangerous

If a cfl should break, simply exit the room for 5 minutes. Unless it's a big vpwell ventilated room.

[Axel]

Yes, we already covered them, they're fragile, expensive and uses practically as much power as regular bulbs, at best they claim 30% savings, with reality closer to 10-15%

If a cfl should break, simply exit the room for 5 minutes. Unless it's a big vpwell ventilated room.

At least clear halogens are aesthetically pleasing enough for applications in things such as crystal chandeliers. LED bulbs tend to have these horrid huge white bottoms to them and CFL's aren't even an option if you want it to look nice.

[Southern Patriot]

At least clear halogens are aesthetically pleasing enough for applications in things such as crystal chandeliers. LED bulbs tend to have these horrid huge white bottoms to them and CFL's aren't even an option if you want it to look nice.

Bulbs for chandeliers aren't covered by most of these bans anyway (I'm fairly sure they are exempt under the US rules at least).

[Axel]

Bulbs for chandeliers aren't covered by most of these bans anyway (I'm fairly sure they are exempt under the US rules at least).

I haven't looked into it comprehensively so I couldn't comment. Just as long as provisions are made so that decorative lighting can still be accommodated then fine with me. I've only had a skim through this thread so I don't know whether it'd been mentioned before but I find the prospect of OLED lighting to be quite exciting, especially that it COULD be integrated into wallpaper:

[Southern Patriot]

I haven't looked into it comprehensively so I couldn't comment. Just as long as provisions are made so that decorative lighting can still be accommodated then fine with me.

Yeah, there are a bunch of exemptions, at least in the US law. I haven't read up on the European laws, but I would suspect that they are similar. In the US law, anything lower than 40W or higher than 150W is exempt anyway (which would cover most decorative lighting that I have ever seen), and there are nearly two dozen exemptions for other types of lighting that fall in the 40-150W range.

[HawkMan]

Actually, in Europe most of the decorative bulbs got banned 2 years ago along with 90+ watts and matte bulbs. That is any colored bulb, even the gold tinted glass and frosted glass twisted crystal clear decorative bulbs are still allowed thugh. But as far as I know, when the rounds come for 25 and then15 watt bulbs they'll go as well. Though the ones with a regular bulb glass and a halogen bulb inside will probably stay, since for some reason halogen is exempt from the ban.

The philips oval decorative LEDs however are very nice. Yeah they have a it of a wHite base, but the "crystal" they use to spread the led lit looks really nice. They also do pretty tdecent twisted oval decorative CFLs now.

I haven't looked into it comprehensively so I couldn't comment. Just as long as provisions are made so that decorative lighting can still be accommodated then fine with me. I've only had a skim through this thread so I don't know whether it'd been mentioned before but I find the prospect of OLED lighting to be quite exciting, especially that it COULD be integrated into wallpaper:

Wallpaper is pretty cool actually, but seem pretty impractical, especially since they'll need a bit of power as well

[Jebadiah]

1. Yes, the greatest "danger" comes from a new bulb breaking while it is being installed. It would still have the full 5 mg.

2. True, the mercury is designed to coincide with the 7 year lifespan (or whatever they claim is the life). Keep in mind, though, that even a new bulb has relatively little mercury compared to a home thermometer.

3. Mercury is the only metal that starts off as a liquid in room temperature. It turns into a gas relatively easily (357C).

The vapor form is more dangerous than its liquid form.

<snipped>

Provisions (from that link)

and Incandescent Lights (also in that article)

There's no need to attack me. Why don't you read my question again and read what it says in the article? It doesn't ban incandescent light bulbs completely. And your second quote says, the law still permits <40Watt and >150W incandescent bulbs. That's just an idiotic excuse to continue with inefficient bulbs.

[Southern Patriot]

Why don't you read my question again and read what it says in the article? It doesn't ban incandescent light bulbs completely.

I did read your question. You asked, in part, "Where does it say anything about banning or phasing out incandescent bulbs", and I gave you the quotes in the article where it mentions doing just that. Neither I, nor anyone else that I've seen in this thread, ever said or implied that ALL incandescent light bulbs were being banned. There are very logical reasons for why the bans aren't affecting some of the lower and higher wattage bulbs, not the least of which is the fact that there simply aren't suitable replacements on the market yet to replace some of those, which are mostly specialty lights (and not as commonly used). You should also read up on the parts of the law that go into effect later that go even farther in mandating higher efficiency bulbs.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Technically, the bill doesn't ban bulbs, it just mandates a certain efficiency level. You can keep making bulbs if they weren't stupidly wasteful, but the tech just doesn't lend itself to that.

[Thunderbuck]

That's the problem with LED bulbs though, they price is outrageous.

Once the price comes down it will be the best option though

Of course you're right, LEDs WILL come down, but for now they illuminate (if you'll pardon the pun) the biggest limitation in adopting green tech:

They save money and resources in the long run. They use so much less power--and virtually never need replacement--that they pay for themselves several times over compared to incandescents.

The trouble is that huge up-front cost.

[Southern Patriot]

Technically, the bill doesn't ban bulbs, it just mandates a certain efficiency level. You can keep making bulbs if they weren't stupidly wasteful, but the tech just doesn't lend itself to that.

Which is why the statement that I quoted says "effectively bans". Put it this way: if the US passed a law requiring cars sold in the US to be composed of at least 90% parts that were manufactured in the US, wouldn't you say that the law "bans import cars"? Yes, it wouldn't outright say that imported cars were banned (after all, they could be assembled overseas, so long as they were using parts made in the US), but what company would go to that effort simply to ship the cars back to the US?

Of course you're right, LEDs WILL come down, but for now they illuminate (if you'll pardon the pun) the biggest limitation in adopting green tech:

They save money and resources in the long run. They use so much less power--and virtually never need replacement--that they pay for themselves several times over compared to incandescents.

The trouble is that huge up-front cost.

That argument applies to pretty much any type of energy-saving technology right now, unfortunately. Hybrid or electric cars, solar power, wind power, etc. They all can save tons of money in the long run, but they are all outrageously expensive initially.

[Shadrack]

Doing stuff like this lowers the energy demand and the dependency on foreign sources of energy. The good outweighs the bad IMO.

[Hum]

3. Mercury is the only metal that starts off as a liquid in room temperature. It turns into a gas relatively easily (357C).

So you are saying that mercury goes into the air ? Thru glass tubes ?

Elements don't break down from simple household electricity.

The mercury would have to compound with some other element.

Edison was successful with the first light bulbs he made, because he used carbon -- an element which does not break down.

[HawkMan]

You do understand what "gas" means don't you ?

at 357C mercury vaporizes into gas. like water turns into steam(gas) at 100C. Now I'm not entirely what temperature the core of a CFL is, but I'm pretty sure it's not over 300C. The point however is that once it does turn to a gas, it doesn't mean it instantly turns liquid again once it hits room temperature, take a bit of time to cool down first. and then you have the micro particle issue.

either way, the mercury in CFL's is nothing to worry about, as I said before if at worst you break a bulb, simply leave the room for 5 minutes and any possible badness is gone.

[leesmithg]

Article is wrong.

You can still buy 60 watt bulbs, they are energy saving ones.

They say 10 or 11 watts on the packaging, but illuminate at between 55-60 watts.

I have a lifetime load of them, ASDA sell them for 10 pence each every-now-n-again.

[HawkMan]

Article is wrong.

You can still buy 60 watt bulbs, they are energy saving ones.

They say 10 or 11 watts on the packaging, but illuminate at between 55-60 watts.

I have a lifetime load of them, ASDA sell them for 10 pence each every-now-n-again.

:facepalm:

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I purchased my first LED replacement light today (well, other than some night lights and night light replacement bulbs).

2 watts that outputs 100 lumens. It might as well be a night light. That's a small fraction of the brightness of a incandescent 60 watt bulb (850 lumens).

Plus it cost me $8.99 although it did come with a candelabra to normal socket adapter (which I don't really have an immediate use for but it seemed like a handy thing to have around).

I essentially want to use it as a night light in my son's room anyway. I put it on a timer than will have it automatically go on at his bed time and turn off once he should be asleep.

It makes a good use of a very stylish/modern but otherwise impractical lamp that uses those candelabra lights (the small screw-in connector).

Article is wrong.

You can still buy 60 watt bulbs, they are energy saving ones.

They say 10 or 11 watts on the packaging, but illuminate at between 55-60 watts.

I have a lifetime load of them, ASDA sell them for 10 pence each every-now-n-again.

Those are 10-11 watt CFL bulbs that were designed to replace a standard incandescent 60 watt bulb.

For those that prefer the standard incandescent 60 watt bulb, however, they may have trouble finding these in the future.

So that's the whole point. People are being forced into purchasing the CFL replacements when some people do not want to do so.

Article is right.

[Southern Patriot]

:facepalm:

I agree, there isn't a facepalm graphic to be found that conveys the amount of nonsense in that post.

[HawkMan]

I purchased my first LED replacement light today (well, other than some night lights and night light replacement bulbs).

2 watts that outputs 100 lumens. It might as well be a night light. That's a small fraction of the brightness of a incandescent 60 watt bulb (850 lumens).

Plus it cost me $8.99 although it did come with a candelabra to normal socket adapter (which I don't really have an immediate use for but it seemed like a handy thing to have around).

I essentially want to use it as a night light in my son's room anyway. I put it on a timer than will have it automatically go on at his bed time and turn off once he should be asleep.

It makes a good use of a very stylish/modern but otherwise impractical lamp that uses those candelabra lights (the small screw-in connector).

Sounds like one of those more decorative, and often cheaper, LED lights, actually they where made pimarily to be cheaper because they use an array of standard led,s of the same type used in electronics. but they don't give much light. the proper led lights are different and use either 1-2 big LED's lights or an array of small flat SMD high efficiency LED's that shin up on a white diffuser bulb.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Sounds like one of those more decorative, and often cheaper, LED lights, actually they where made pimarily to be cheaper because they use an array of standard led,s of the same type used in electronics. but they don't give much light. the proper led lights are different and use either 1-2 big LED's lights or an array of small flat SMD high efficiency LED's that shin up on a white diffuser bulb.

Yeah, I see them on the manufacturer's website but I didn't see those big LED models in the store. Even still, they max out at about 830 lumens which is about half of the luminosity of a 100 watt bulb.

[HawkMan]

there's more powerful LED's than that

http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/led_comparison_chart.pdf

people genrally don't use 100Wat bulbs though, people that need that much light usually use tubes. but the proper LED bulbs match the lumens or more of the bulb they're replacing. the decoaritve ones are lower since they're not intended to be used for lighting.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

there's more powerful LED's than that

http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/led_comparison_chart.pdf

people genrally don't use 100Wat bulbs though, people that need that much light usually use tubes. but the proper LED bulbs match the lumens or more of the bulb they're replacing. the decoaritve ones are lower since they're not intended to be used for lighting.

Aren't you from Norway? Canada gets dark and depressing enough in the winter especially when there isn't a snow cover and it gets dark at 4:30pm.

At any rate, I tend to eschew 60 watt bulbs for 100 watt ones. Well, actually, these days I purchase CFL replacements that are at least 23 watts.

The best LEDs seem to be replacements for 50 watt incandescent/halogen bulbs.