Why Windows 8 is Microsoft


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Microsoft hasn't exactly besmirched Windows 7, but is going to lengths to show contempt for the status quo

...?We released Windows Developer Preview build with the full product 'enabled' even though we still had much feature work to do in the user interface. We did this in order to foster the dialog and we want folks to understand that the product is not done. We've seen some small amount of visceral feedback focused on 'choice' or 'disable'?a natural reaction to change, but perhaps not the best way to have a dialog leading to a new product,? said Microsoft?s Steven Sinofsky via a post titled ?Reflecting on your comments on the Start screen? on the blog.

Obviously, it would be irresponsible to draw any solid conclusions about Windows 8 from the very early Developer Build that was recently released, so I agree with Steven?s disclaimer there. But his comments about users wanting choice or the ability to disable things not being the best way to have a dialog about a new product comes across somewhat condescending in my opinion; dare I say Apple-like...

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/79018

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No, it's not.

The point is that they released the dev preview for two reasons.

1. To get devs to make metro apps

2. To get feedback onthe metro interface.

The very unfinished build was not released to get feedback on "ho do we disable metro". Especially since disabling it mans you can't use the dev build for any of the intended uses.

Besides that, while there may be hundreds of thousands, even millions, of advanced users who want to be able to configure and tweak their OS. There at 100-1000's more people who want. Impe consistent UI that they can't mess to much ith nd that they know s the Sam when they go to another computer.

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No, it's not.

The point is that they released the dev preview for two reasons.

1. To get devs to make metro apps

2. To get feedback onthe metro interface.

The very unfinished build was not released to get feedback on "ho do we disable metro". Especially since disabling it mans you can't use the dev build for any of the intended uses.

Besides that, while there may be hundreds of thousands, even millions, of advanced users who want to be able to configure and tweak their OS. There at 100-1000's more people who want. Impe consistent UI that they can't mess to much ith nd that they know s the Sam when they go to another computer.

You sir are quite correct. This is why it is called the Dev build. I personally do not care for the Metro Interface and told MS so. If they do not offer a choice of which UI to use, Windows 8 will fail. I will not even try it again until it goes Beta.

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I think the best system here would be to provide a different default interface depending on the device:

1. Traditional Desktops / Laptops: Disable Metro by default but allow the user to easily switch to it

2. Touch Screen All-in-one Desktops: Enable Metro by default but allow a setting to change this

3. Tablets: Enable Metro as the main interface

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I am actually with microsoft on Metro thingy.

.But i have only one simple request.

We dont need the old start menu. But. We do need a search bar or menu in the OLD DESKTOP which is as easily accessible as it was in the old start menu.

I have a very common scenario. I want to search for a file. But i forgot the file name. I open a notepad document where i have written the names. If the name is simple. I will look at it and type it in the startmenu search box and there u go. If its a little complex i will copy the text from the doc and paste it in that menu.

In the new Windows 8 start screen. I cant do the first one. As when ill press the start screen. The screen will move to metro and i wont be able to read the filename from the notepad file. (this is an example. Where you need to read 2 data points before entering some data somewhere.) We wont be able to do this. This is the only thing ill miss. Obviously there will be easy 3rd party apps to replicate the old start menu and such. But i would atleast like a SEARCH button next to start .. which will popup a small search box.

actually.

www.zainadeel.deviantart.com i had some concepts for a new startmenu. . . it was smaller. and to the point for small devices.

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I think the best system here would be to provide a different default interface depending on the device:

1. Traditional Desktops / Laptops: Disable Metro by default but allow the user to easily switch to it

2. Touch Screen All-in-one Desktops: Enable Metro by default but allow a setting to change this

3. Tablets: Enable Metro as the main interface

Except the idea is "one interface, many devices". So regular users can recognize and use and device the same as an other.

And no. Win8 won't fail because a small handful of advanced users don't like or don't want to adapt to a new UI paradigm. Fact is, MS lives of of the billions of regular users. Not the power users"

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I still refuse to believe that on traditional systems users will see the immersive interface as anything but a pretty gimmick, like the dashboard on OSX

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The dashboard and the star screen isn't even remotely comparable in either form or function.

One is a widget ad on, the other is a key functional part of OS usage. Seriously.

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We know this, the average user probably will see it as a gimmick, I have shown screen shots of Windows 8 dev preview to non-computery friends and they asked me if it was a joke. The purpose of my post was not a serious comparison, more two examples of ideas seen as gimmicks by end users

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We know this, the average user probably will see it as a gimmick, I have shown screen shots of Windows 8 dev preview to non-computery friends and they asked me if it was a joke. The purpose of my post was not a serious comparison, more two examples of ideas seen as gimmicks by end users

There's an evident difference between seeing a screenshot, and actually the using the thing. Seeing a plain screenshot with no context isn't going to explain much to the end user - seeing it in action will.

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We know this, the average user probably will see it as a gimmick, I have shown screen shots of Windows 8 dev preview to non-computery friends and they asked me if it was a joke. The purpose of my post was not a serious comparison, more two examples of ideas seen as gimmicks by end users

I think you've got regular users confused "power users".

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I think what people forget, as the generation before us did as well, is that the next generation is going to grow up with these types of interfaces. Yea, iOS is a "grid of icons" and such but guess what, the next generation (and part of this one) doesn't care, it's simple, easy to use and gets the job done. And that is what Windows 8 is trying to grab, the next generation to grow up on Windows as the previous one before them did. Most people don't know what they want and the ones that usually do, are the minority. I'm not saying that the Metro interface is perfect, but I do believe it's the correct step in the direction that technology is going. Say what you want about the interface not being good for the desktop PC, that may be the case, but guess what, that's not what the future is going towards. The future is going towards, touch, NUIs, and mobility. The "traditional" desktop isn't going to last if we keep it the old way. Yea, it's going to suck at first, but not all new things are great when they first come out, they all have to build upon something else.

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Except the idea is "one interface, many devices". So regular users can recognize and use and device the same as an other.

And no. Win8 won't fail because a small handful of advanced users don't like or don't want to adapt to a new UI paradigm. Fact is, MS lives of of the billions of regular users. Not the power users"

I sure don't want tiles on my Desktop computer.... waste of space imo

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I sure don't want tiles on my Desktop computer.... waste of space imo

I hate to break it to you, but all desktops are just a grid of tiles.

I'd consider myself a power user, and I haven't used the start menu (besides search) in Windows or the Applications folder (or launchpad) in OSX since I can't remember when.

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I think everyone's just not looking at it the right way. When you see it with more than the silly partially-working apps that come with the DP you'll probably change your mind. I've already had a client "pre-order" a rewrite of their software.

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I think everyone's just not looking at it the right way. When you see it with more than the silly partially-working apps that come with the DP you'll probably change your mind. I've already had a client "pre-order" a rewrite of their software.

Yes like I said, I will not try it again until it goes Beta. I just hope that the user is given a choice on which UI to use. It played BF3 just as good as on 7. :)

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I hate to break it to you, but all desktops are just a grid of tiles.

I'd consider myself a power user, and I haven't used the start menu (besides search) in Windows or the Applications folder (or launchpad) in OSX since I can't remember when.

Right but I can have.. 100+ icons in Grid Layout on the screen no need to scroll or anything. I use the search and start menu all the time, sometimes I click it just to see it. I would consider myself a power-user as well.

I don't like tiles, plain and simple. If I don't, I am sure there are lots of others who feel exactly the same.

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Personally I think it's insane to have a single operating system that has two wildly different interfaces with each its own set of apps. I can see this become very confusing to many users. To me Metro makes zero sense on any non-touch screen device.

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Right but I can have.. 100+ icons in Grid Layout on the screen no need to scroll or anything. I use the search and start menu all the time, sometimes I click it just to see it. I would consider myself a power-user as well.

I don't like tiles, plain and simple. If I don't, I am sure there are lots of others who feel exactly the same.

Do you have 100+ icons? Because that's a terrible way to use a desktop.

I'm just saying, from a UI perspective, most people use a handful of applications and a file browser. More than that and they get confused. I get the hate for it though, but to be fair it's not even in beta yet, nor is it in the hands of the average user.

Personally I think it's insane to have a single operating system that has two wildly different interfaces with each its own set of apps. I can see this become very confusing to many users. To me Metro makes zero sense on any non-touch screen device.

Is that worse than the iOS / OSX split? Now that iOS is out, and the i-Devices are free from a computer, why should you have to buy Pages or Keynote or iPhoto or anything else twice to use it on your iMac and iPad? Don't an iPad and an iMac have wildly different interfaces?

I'm not arguing for Windows 8, per se, but I would say that no one is doing it "right" yet.

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Personally I think it's insane to have a single operating system that has two wildly different interfaces with each its own set of apps. I can see this become very confusing to many users. To me Metro makes zero sense on any non-touch screen device.

Agreed. I'm sure Metro would be great on a tablet, but I don't see much point when you're using a mouse/trackpad.

I just hope it doesn't require you to boot into Metro. Having to close it every time will get annoying pretty quick.

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I have to agree with firey, strongly, that Metro on my desktop would be a waste of space.

Do you have 100+ icons? Because that's a terrible way to use a desktop.

I'm just saying, from a UI perspective, most people use a handful of applications and a file browser. More than that and they get confused. I get the hate for it though, but to be fair it's not even in beta yet, nor is it in the hands of the average user.

Is that worse than the iOS / OSX split? Now that iOS is out, and the i-Devices are free from a computer, why should you have to buy Pages or Keynote or iPhoto or anything else twice to use it on your iMac and iPad? Don't an iPad and an iMac have wildly different interfaces?

I'm not arguing for Windows 8, per se, but I would say that no one is doing it "right" yet.

What does it matter if he has one icon or 15K? Unless it is impeding his ability to work efficiently then it isn't a concern. This can't be gleamed by blanked statements such as yours that "100+ icons is too many" as it doesn't account for anything relating to his organizational structure (maybe a structured, grouping, naming convention or icon style greatly reducing the time "hunting") or just plain placement (maybe he can remember the location of every icon allowing him to access anything an instant). Either way you can't decide for him when too many icons has been reached.

It is like my workflow. I have always used a ton of windows. When I used to run Windows XP (the last 32bit OS I used) I would commonly run into the problem of running out of Windows Address Space due to having too many windows on screen at a time. For most people having more than a few windows open can cause confusion, as I have noticed, but I'm not most people. I'm my own person who operates in a specific manner. As such, I don't advocate that people have open "at least x" number of windows nor to I listen when people say I shouldn't have open more than x.

Just like the choice on which pencil to use, we all have different work styles :)

For me, the Metro UI ruins everything. I just can't imagine how annoyed I would be with a full screen start menu. Running the Dev. Preview in a VM on my laptop nearly made my head explode... It is so in your face that it just makes me want to vomit. Why waste 1920x1200 pixels on a start menu alone?

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