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No right to pray for Muslim pupil at German school

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Seizure1990    252

And others shouldn't have to walk around kids laying in the middle of the hallway. Why inconvenience others? Especially when it can be done before and after school? Why bother bothering others, when it isn't even a necessity? Because they would rather others confirm to their beliefs than they confirm to the society they are in.

You're right, you shouldn't be allowed to lay down smack in the middle of the hallway, obstructing others.

When did I say you should be able to?

When did the article say that's exactly what they were doing?

When will you stop playing the strawman tactic?

As for before and after school, as a Jew, I have to pray before every meal, including lunch. When I have my school lunch, it is my right to make that prayer, and eat. I don't have to leave the premises just to have my lunch.

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+Gary7    7,592

Other posts in here have said that it was about praying in a schoolyard, so I dunno.

And for the record, I believe religion should be a matter that you are free to express as you wish, so long as you don't harm others.

You are quite correct about this, but this expression should not be in a school or a schoolyard. One should pray either at home or in the proper place. School is not the proper place for prayer.

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shakey    1,127

You're right, you shouldn't be allowed to lay down in the middle of the hallway.

When did I say you should be able to?

When will you stop playing the strawman tactic?

As for before and after school, as a Jew, I have to pray before every meal, including lunch. When I have my school lunch, it is my right to make that prayer, and eat. I don't have to leave the premises just to have my lunch.

You do realize how muslims pray right? They have to get on their knees... that is basically laying down. Are you just trolling us now?

Praying at your seat, quietly, not disrupting anyone else, not doing it on anyone elses time, and not being in the way of anyone, is not a problem. But you fail to understand how other religions practice their faith, and how much of a disturbance it can be.

Here, so you understand what everyone is talking about a little better...

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+Gary7    7,592

You're right, you shouldn't be allowed to lay down smack in the middle of the hallway, obstructing others.

When did I say you should be able to?

When did the article say that's exactly what they were doing?

When will you stop playing the strawman tactic?

As for before and after school, as a Jew, I have to pray before every meal, including lunch. When I have my school lunch, it is my right to make that prayer, and eat. I don't have to leave the premises just to have my lunch.

And you can pray to yourself as I do.

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Seizure1990    252

You are quite correct about this, but this expression should not be in a school or a schoolyard. One should pray either at home or in the proper place. School is not the proper place for prayer.

Why not? What about my above example, when having lunch? What if their are proper times for it, and you happen to be in school at that time? What makes it inappropriate by definition?

You do realize how muslims pray right? They have to get on their knees... that is basically laying down. Are you just trolling us now?

Yea... but it doesn't say they have to be in the middle of pedestrian traffic... Dunno about the guys in that article (no details), but if I were Muslim, I'd find a nice quiet corner out of the way of people.

Geez, you act like they WANT people tripping all over them during their prayer. :laugh:

And you can pray to yourself as I do.

.... as opposed to what? And how does being in school prevent you from doing so?

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Tender Foot    47

You are right. Kind of.

But then again they don't claim to be liberal and civilized as often as Arab do

Arabs are more civilized than the west? now that's funny as hell, stoning woman if they cheat on their husbands, beheading people, executions without a proper court rulings, setting people on fire, dragging bodies in the streets, hanging bodies up the list goes on and on

Arabs, Muslins etc migrate to other countries and don?t assimilate to the countries laws etc and they want A that country they went to bow down to them and follow Arab, Muslims laws etc

Fact is many Arab, Muslim countries are still way behind modern times with equll rights towards women etc.

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shakey    1,127

Arabs are more ciliviled than the west? now that's funny as hell, stoning woman if they cheat on their husbands, beheading people, execustions with out a proper court ruilings, setting people on fire, dragin bodies in the streets, haning bodies up the list goes on and on

Don't try talking sense into them. They are brainwashed and blind to what the rest of the civilized world can see. They are hundreds of years behind most modern societies. I'm not saying all are bad or like that, but the majority, yes. Such rules and beliefs can only bring about such behavior from us.

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+Gary7    7,592

Why not? What about my above example, when having lunch? What if their are proper times for it, and you happen to be in school at that time? What makes it inappropriate by definition?

Yea... but it doesn't say they have to be in the middle of pedestrian traffic... Dunno about the guys in that article (no details), but if I were Muslim, I'd find a nice quiet corner out of the way of people.

Geez, you act like they WANT people tripping all over them during their prayer. :laugh:

.... as opposed to what? And how does being in school prevent you from doing so?

It doesn't but you can say a prayer to yourself and not in an organized fashion in a separate room.

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shakey    1,127

Why not? What about my above example, when having lunch? What if their are proper times for it, and you happen to be in school at that time? What makes it inappropriate by definition?

Yea... but it doesn't say they have to be in the middle of pedestrian traffic... Dunno about the guys in that article (no details), but if I were Muslim, I'd find a nice quiet corner out of the way of people.

Geez, you act like they WANT people tripping all over them during their prayer. :laugh:

.... as opposed to what? And how does being in school prevent you from doing so?

Answer the big question, why not just wait and do it before and after school? Their religion says they don't have to do them all at the specified times, and that they can miss some, making them up, 2 at a time.

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Seizure1990    252

It doesn't but you can say a prayer to yourself and not in an organized fashion in a separate room.

>_<

For the last time, I never said a school should be required to provide prayer rooms

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+Gary7    7,592

>_<

I never said that you did. but that is what was wanted in the OP.

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Seizure1990    252

Answer the big question, why not just wait and do it before and after school? Their religion says they don't have to do them all at the specified times, and that they can miss some, making them up, 2 at a time.

It's still preferential to do it at the allotted time, just like how you can hand your homework in late, but you should have done it on time in the first place.

Also, as I mentioned above, can't speak for Muslims, but as a Jew, I must pray before my meal, and that's that.

I never said that you did. but that is what was wanted in the OP.

No, they were told they couldn't pray in the halls or schoolyard. The request for a separate room was made after, as an alternative.

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Slammers    114

They could just be smart and not pray in the middle of the hallways... Pray outside in your breaks or even in the toilets or an empty room. Then no one would even notice.

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+Gary7    7,592

It's still preferential to do it at the allotted time, just like how you can hand your homework in late, but you should have done it on time in the first place.

Also, as I mentioned above, can't speak for Muslims, but as a Jew, I must pray before my meal, and that's that.

No, they were told they couldn't pray in the halls or schoolyard. The request for a separate room was made after, as an alternative.

When I went to school here is The US, the first thing every morning we would have to recited The Lord's Prayer. I had no problem with this as I was a Christian. Here in the US we have probably every established Religion practiced. I am sure that this bothered some students that were not Christian. For that reason Religion was removed from every school. All forms of religion. Those that wanted to could say a pryer to themselves anytime they felt like it. The word God was even removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. Throughout history probably 90% of all wars had something to do with religion. So why would any school, any public school want to have prayer?

For a long time I was against removing religion from school but it is for the greater good.

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Seizure1990    252

When I went to school here is The US, the first thing every morning we would have to recited The Lord's Prayer. I had no problem with this as I was a Christian. Here in the US we have probably every established Religion practiced. I am sure that this bothered some students that were not Christian. For that reason Religion was removed from every school. All forms of religion. Those that wanted to could say a pryer to themselves anytime they felt like it. The word God was even removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. Throughout history probably 90% of all wars had something to do with religion. So why would any school, any public school want to have prayer?

For a long time I was against removing religion from school but it is for the greater good.

You're comparing a school-backed prayer session to an individual praying by his own will on his own time. There is a very big difference. I agree that the former of the two is wrong.

The last bit about religion and wars is inconsequential, and a debate topic in of its self.

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shakey    1,127

So if you do not understand the religion and its practices, why are you debating for it?

And no, turning in homework late has a penalty. You will get a lower grade. Doing a prayer at another time, in accordance to the written book Muslims follow, has no penalty, as they can make them up, 2 at a time. Your analogy is horribly inaccurate, as well as you pitting something as petty as homework to someone's beliefs.

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Seahorsepip    610

Not in PUBLIC schools it wouldn't be. If he wants to pray, that's fine, but not on the taxpayers cent. He should either go to a more appropriate Muslim school, or take care of his prayers before and after school.

I agree, kneeling in hals and such like the text says is not only just praying but irrtiating for teachers when the want to pass that hall without kicking one of those long beared kids aside....

Christian people don't pray in halls and on the ground so why should muslims can?

Americans understand the importance of preserving your history and culture while still accepting new ideas and ways of thinking, so as to further enrich your culture.

Can't really can enriching it for the past few years...Maybe worsening?

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roguekiller23231    26

does anyone actually know what they were asking for? a room to pray in during break times, it wouldn't be disturbing to anyone as they would be out of the way, a room can usually be booked for other things in school.

and does anyone actually know what the Islamic prayer entails? all it takes is a 3-5 minute prayer and that's it. it's not like they would be there for hours, and it has to be done on the time, so it's not like a teacher would be there for a full hour of a break time, the teacher would be there for a few minutes if they had to be there.

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Seizure1990    252

So if you do not understand the religion and its practices, why are you debating for it?

And no, turning in homework late has a penalty. You will get a lower grade. Doing a prayer at another time, in accordance to the written book Muslims follow, has no penalty, as they can make them up, 2 at a time. Your analogy is horribly inaccurate, as well as you pitting something as petty as homework to someone's beliefs.

I'm debating for the right of ALL religions to pray in public spaces. That includes Muslims.

The penalty for not doing as God instructed comes in the next life, not this one. As an atheist, you don't believe in that, and that is fine. But we do.

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+Gary7    7,592

You're comparing a school-backed prayer session to an individual praying by his own will on his own time. There is a very big difference. I agree that the former of the two is wrong.

The last bit about religion and wars is inconsequential, and a debate topic in of its self.

True but allowing this prayer in that school, the school would be condoning it. Then other sects would want their prayer time .. School is used for education and not a place for prayer. There is a time for everything;

Ecclesiastes 3

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Shadrack    601

I'm debating for the right of ALL religions to pray in public spaces. That includes Muslims.

The penalty for not doing as God instructed comes in the next life, not this one. As an atheist, you don't believe in that, and that is fine. But we do.

If it is that critical to your personal belief in an afterlife, then don't you have the freedom to put your children into a compatible private school?

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shakey    1,127

I'm debating for the right of ALL religions to pray in public spaces. That includes Muslims.

The penalty for not doing as God instructed comes in the next life, not this one. As an atheist, you don't believe in that, and that is fine. But we do.

OK, so all religions have the freedom to do as their religion ask during school hours.... You really think you can supervise however many kids are in a school and have them all get their own place to do so?

What if there are 500 muslim students at a school that has roughly 5000 kids. 500 of those students would have to have a big room, or a long line for a small room for prayer, or they would be taking up a lot of room/corners in the halls. It would take a lot more time than one realizes. Now imagine, 5000 kids, all practicing their religions beliefs. That is just insanity. What is the logical solution? Practice your beliefs on your own time, at your own house or place of specified worship.

Also, school is supposed to prepare kids for the real world. In the real world, do you not get "prayer" breaks at work. At least not unless you're a preacher or professional choir singer :p

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ahhell    1,303

France and Germany are spreading hatred recently. It's shameful.

With rulings like these.

Spreading hate? BS

Did you even read the article? They had perfectly valid reasons for not allowing prayers at the school.

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shakey    1,127

If it is that critical to your personal belief in an afterlife, then don't you have the freedom to put your children into a compatible private school?

That would require him to work around society for his beliefs. When he feels society should have to work around everyone's beliefs.

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Original Poster    324

Sorry, nope.

If my future son decides to stop at his locker, or at the lunch table, and make a prayer, then I'll be damned if he isn't allowed to.

US = freedom of religion, NOT freedom from religion

if it disrupts other people then nope, but I think he should be allowed to pray during his recess but only then and out side in the corner of the grounds so as to be as undisrupted as possible

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