Computer cluster=better game and program performance?

[GüntherJung]

Hey everyone. I have an HP Pavilion G6 with an AMD Fusion dualcore 1.8GH with an ATI Radeon 6380G and 4GB DDR3 of RAM and a PC with an AMD Sempron 3100+ 1.8GH with 1GB DDR400 and a GeForce 8600GT. My question is: can i cluster these two computers and have better windows, program and game performance? I have an internet cable and I use it for internet connection sharing and file sharing.

[neoraptor]

no

[the evn show]

In a word: no.

For one, the hardware you need to get any sort of respectable latency for a compute cluster costs 10x more than either of those computers are worth. Two, games are not the sort of application that works well on parallel platforms. Three, Windows isn't a platform for parallel computing. Fourth, for parallel platforms the overhead is non-trivial even if you could get these things setup and working together. Your "fast" computer ends up waiting on your "slow" one introducing latency, access control for 'parts' of data to work on takes time, and all of that maeans unless you have a fairly large number of computers you spend more time arguing about which computer works on which bit than you actually spend working on the software.

[articuno1au]

Pretty much summed it up well, except the parallel computing part. Windows HPC Edition is worth it's salt >.<

[ToneKnee]

  On 04/12/2011 at 17:51, evn. said:

In a word: no.

For one, the hardware you need to get any sort of respectable latency for a compute cluster costs 10x more than either of those computers are worth. Two, games are not the sort of application that works well on parallel platforms. Three, Windows isn't a platform for parallel computing. Fourth, for parallel platforms the overhead is non-trivial even if you could get these things setup and working together. Your "fast" computer ends up waiting on your "slow" one introducing latency, access control for 'parts' of data to work on takes time, and all of that maeans unless you have a fairly large number of computers you spend more time arguing about which computer works on which bit than you actually spend working on the software.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Windows Server has a Datacenter edition for parallel platforms?

[GüntherJung]

Hm I don't knew that there is some other hardware for clustering two computers. I saw this tutorial on the internet http://www.ehow.com/how_5241931_build-windows-cluster.html .I doesn't mention additional hardware.

[the evn show]

  On 04/12/2011 at 17:54, articuno1au said:

Pretty much summed it up well, except the parallel computing part. Windows HPC Edition is worth it's salt >.<

Not if your plan is to play duke nukem forever. Windows certainly does have cluster services but in general it's used to provide reliability and availability for things like databases or directory services -- its much less popular for "making a whole pile of CPU cycles available for a single workload". It would certainly be useless for something like trying to get better performance out of Starcraft 2.

  Quote

Hm I don't knew that there is some other hardware for clustering two computers. I saw this tutorial on the internet

That "tutorial" is so information bare as to be useless. It's like saying:

How to go to the moon using a rocket

1. Get in the rocket
   
2. Point the rocket at the moon
   
3. Press the "fly me too the moon" button
   

It also doesn't mention that a Windows Server 2008 license is 5-10x more valuable than the computers you'd want to use it on.

[GüntherJung]

  On 04/12/2011 at 18:01, evn. said:

Not if your plan is to play duke nukem forever. Windows certainly does have cluster services but in general it's used to provide reliability and availability for things like databases or directory services -- its much less popular for "making a whole pile of CPU cycles available for a single workload". It would certainly be useless for something like trying to get better performance out of Starcraft 2.

That "tutorial" is so information bare as to be useless. It's like saying:

How to go to the moon using a rocket

1. Get in the rocket
   
2. Point the rocket at the moon
   
3. Press the "fly me too the moon" button
   

It also doesn't mention that a Windows Server 2008 license is 5-10x more valuable than the computers you'd want to use it on.

But will it work?

[spikey_richie]

  On 04/12/2011 at 18:15, emilxp said:

But will it work?

No

[GüntherJung]

Ok if i have Windows Server then why it will not work?

[ViperAFK]

  On 04/12/2011 at 18:19, emilxp said:

Ok if i have Windows Server then why it will not work?

Your hardware is not designed for what you are trying to do. Games wouldn't be able to take advantage of it, and latency would be insane

[GüntherJung]

But i can try. If i cluster these computers then can i control both computers of just one? And will it share the GPU power? Not just the CPU and RAM?

[giantsnyy]

Listen to everyone... It won't work! Your hardware isn't designed to be set up as a cluster.

It won't share anything. You'd be sitting there setting up something which won't ever work. Don't waste your time.

[johnporter29]

If you don't believe what people on here are telling you, which again the answer is no it won't work, then the only thing left is for you to waste your time trying it! :D

[GüntherJung]

  On 04/12/2011 at 18:30, giantsnyy said:

Listen to everyone... It won't work! Your hardware isn't designed to be set up as a cluster.

It won't share anything. You'd be sitting there setting up something which won't ever work. Don't waste your time.

Yes. Maybe a laptop isn't a super computer, but i thing the speed between them is good.

[the evn show]

  Quote

If i cluster these computers then can i control both computers of just one?

They'll behave like two separate computers running the same software. If you then took two more computers and used them to simultaneously access an appropriate piece of software running on your cluster (like an active directory service or database) then it's possible you might see some tiny increase in performance - given your hardware it'd be less than 10% faster.

If you opened up Photoshop or Quake the game would run no quicker than if you had a single computer. You'll still maintain them like two seperate systems - you'll have two accounts to log in to, you'll run software updates twice - in every meaningful way it's two distinct computers.

  Quote

And will it share the GPU power? Not just the CPU and RAM?

The correct answer is "technically it could be possible" but given your knowledge of the topic I think it's far easier to just say "no, not in any way you'd find useful".

[kurupy]

Not to be mean or anything...but what was the point in asking the question in the first place, if you're just going to ignore the advice?

[GüntherJung]

  On 04/12/2011 at 18:38, kurupy said:

Not to be mean or anything...but what was the point in asking the question in the first place, if you're just going to ignore the advice?

I am not ignoring the advice. I thing they are useful, but i still thing that it is possible.

Look a server is a big computer. Servers are clustered BIG computers. Why not clustering little computers. They have the same things that a server has(almost) except the speed and the fast internet and connection between them. Soo it is possible to cluster my two computers. I don't care if the speed will be better. I care if I will be succesful. I don't see why i can't. My computers haven't really a big difference from the servers except the speed and faster internet as i mentioned before. And they can run Windows Server so i don't see a problem really.

[zhangm Supervisor]

  Quote

Look a server is a big computer. Servers are clustered BIG computers. Why not clustering little computers. They have the same things that a server has(almost) except the speed and the fast internet and connection between them. Soo it is possible to cluster my two computers. I don't care if the speed will be better. I care if I will be succesful. I don't see why i can't. My computers haven't really a big difference from the servers except the speed and faster internet as i mentioned before. And they can run Windows Server so i don't see a problem really.

Well, that settles it then. Go ahead and do it.

[the evn show]

  On 04/12/2011 at 18:42, emilxp said:

They have the same things that a server has(almost) except the speed and the fast internet and connection between them.

These two things are the most important parts. You're also missing around $2400 worth of software if you intend to use Windows.

  Quote

I don't care if the speed will be better. I care if I will be succesful.

That wasn't what you asked in your first post. You specifically asked "Will I see better game and program performance", the answer to that is "No, you won't - it'll probably be worse".

This thread is dangerously close to being closed.

[GüntherJung]

  On 04/12/2011 at 18:46, evn. said:

These two things are the most important parts. You're also missing around $2400 worth of software if you intend to use Windows.

That wasn't what you asked in your first post. You specifically asked "Will I see better game and program performance", the answer to that is "No, you won't - it'll probably be worse".

This thread is dangerously close to being closed.

Yes i understand that i changed a little my question when deleted from it "the speed", but now i have the answer for my second question. Haven't I?

[GüntherJung]

OK I've learned that it's possible, but it will not improve my performance. So I will just waste my time. Thank you for the answers. This thread is closed.

[giantsnyy]

I take back what I posted... for some reason 10 posts were added after what I wanted to reply in a 30 second time period.

[articuno1au]

  On 04/12/2011 at 18:01, evn. said:

Not if your plan is to play duke nukem forever. Windows certainly does have cluster services but in general it's used to provide reliability and availability for things like databases or directory services -- its much less popular for "making a whole pile of CPU cycles available for a single workload". It would certainly be useless for something like trying to get better performance out of Starcraft 2.

/slap

BAD MODERATOR! Read before replying..

I wholly agreed with you about it being a bad idea and latency and all that.. I disagreed with your Windows statement :\

That is all.

inb4ban

[+BudMan MVC]

Your first mistake was actually going to ehow for anything.. If you actually want a tip on anything -- filter ehow from your google searches ;)

As stated already -- that guide is completely and utterly useless!!

They pasted a few steps from the sql clustering guide.

Did you follow the reference link? So you say you have 2003 server?? Do you have the "shared array or SAN" Can not do the windows clustering with out that ;)

Windows clustering is meant to provide services that are UP if one of the nodes fail -- not for sharing cpu cycles to run a program.

Sure you can create a windows cluster if you have correct windows server version -- its quite easy really.. But again what are you using for the shared array?

"A cluster is a group of computers, called nodes that function as a single computer/system to provide high availability and high fault tolerance for applications or services. Windows 2003 Servers can participate in a cluster configuration through the use of Cluster Services. If one member of the cluster (the node) is unavailable, the other computers carry the load so that applications or services are always (with a small interruption) available."

All nodes of the cluster use a Shared Disk ? an external disk or disk subsystem which is accessible for all nodes through SCSI (2 Nodes) or Fibre Channel (more than 2 nodes). All data will be stored on the shared disk or an external disk subsystem (for example Exchange databases).

This is not what you asked about at.. What you are asking about where nodes in a cluster work in parallel to increase cpu performance, etc. would be a Beowulf cluster.

http://en.wikipedia....Beowulf_cluster

A Beowulf cluster is a computer cluster of what are normally identical, commodity-grade computers networked into a small local area network with libraries and programs installed which allow processing to be shared among them. The result is a high-performance parallel computing cluster from inexpensive personal computer hardware.

I do not know of a way to do this with windows. Unless your taking about windows HPC? Its not going to run your games or would it make your games faster in any way. http://www.microsoft...us/default.aspx

Here are the lists of applications what will run on windows HPC -- do you see any of your games listed? ;)

http://www.microsoft...plications.aspx

To run on the cluster your asking about, the application has to be written to run on such a cluster.

Now if you have some home hardware and you want to play with clusters -- hey GREAT!!! Here you can get a home cluster up and running very quickly by just booting off some liveCDs -- but its not going to run any of your games ;)

here are some links that should get you started

http://www.knoppix.n...Cluster_Live_CD

I would prob start here if I were you in wanting to start playing with clustering

http://idea.uab.es/mcreel/PelicanHPC/

But now to the tip that will actually help you in the future searching for anything.. How to filter ehow

http://googleblog.bl...f-what-you.html

filter out that full of crap ehow site and all your future googles will be better ;)