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Nerd Rage    546

snipped

No sense arguing with you, you?ll still ignore the facts.

If you are trying to say that this clip conveys their message, then I stand behind my stance even more firmly. Wallstreet collapsed......because banks collapsed........because PEOPLE took out stupid loans. PEOPLE need to take responsibility for their OWN actions instead of blaming Wallstreet. Typical Modern American culture of throwing blame on everyone but yourself.

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Nerd Rage    546

Ya, a persons views are totally irrational when they wear dirty clothes.... Those are the types of statements that make your comments have 0 merit.

How would you protest?

In a legal manner...........you conveniently picked out the word dirty and left out the part about being engaged in illegal activities.

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M_Lyons10    454

See, more ignorance. Sure, police weren't using military tactics /s... They just showed up, in full riot gear, in military armored vehicles, with tear gas and other weapons... really, you are a very thick minded person, or you just watch and believe way to much of what FOX news reports... You have not 1 single inkling of a clue about the first amendment. No where does it say one must get a permit to protest. No where does it say you can not protest anywhere. Do you even understand what a protest is?

Pepper spray... it's basically a condiment.

And how would you respond to a hostile crowd of thousands? The Police *kinda* had a responsibility to protect their own staff. Safety equipment, such as riot gear and shields I would say is more than acceptable. Especially considering they were mostly just standing there watching the "protestors"... And of course being attacked by the protestors regularly. I know that I would never send someone into a dangerous environment without safety equipment. You make it sound as if the Police arrived and went to war with the protestors. They allowed them to be there for months while they destroyed other people's property, attacked police officers, civilians, and other "protestors" and the Police are the bad guys... Yeah, O.K. :rolleyes:

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shakey    1,127

And how would you respond to a hostile crowd of thousands? The Police *kinda* had a responsibility to protect their own staff. Safety equipment, such as riot gear and shields I would say is more than acceptable. Especially considering they were mostly just standing there watching the "protestors"... And of course being attacked by the protestors regularly. I know that I would never send someone into a dangerous environment without safety equipment. You make it sound as if the Police arrived and went to war with the protestors. They allowed them to be there for months while they destroyed other people's property, attacked police officers, civilians, and other "protestors" and the Police are the bad guys... Yeah, O.K. :rolleyes:

Hostile? wow, you stretch far. I'd say a hostile protest are the ones you see in Egypt, where the civilians have actually taken to arms. You have a very limited world view, and its narrow, very very narrow. Thousands of police showing up in full riot gear.... to thousands of unarmed protestors wearing regular clothes... and you say the protestors are the ones over reacting..... just... wow.

Again, answer me. How would you protest a corrupt government? You seem to belittle those doing it, yet you seem to have no answer.... Come on, all high and mighty. Answer a question on how you would protest.

And Nerd Rage, you are so funny. You would protest a corrupt government, through its own legal system? Wow, You sure are ignorant to the way the world works. I'm sure tons of dictators would have and will gladly just step down from power if someone would just sue them....

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M_Lyons10    454

In a legal manner...........you conveniently picked out the word dirty and left out the part about being engaged in illegal activities.

Isn't it funny how they do that? LOL

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Nerd Rage    546

Wow always awesome how you can back up your hate with actual facts, so you have to result in trying to belittle the image of people by calling them ?dirty clothed homeless hippies?. That in itself proves you know nothing about what you're talking about.

I guarantee you these people have homes, most of them have college degrees, And have far more courage than you could ever have.

LOL, courage. If you mean courage to go out and make ridiculous accusations and be ridiculed for doing so, I get your point. However, that it not my idea of courage at all. People in the military who put their lives on the line on a regular basis to stand between freedom and terrorist ideals.......that is courage.

And Nerd Rage, you are so funny. You would protest a corrupt government, through its own legal system? Wow, You sure are ignorant to the way the world works.

I didnt say in the legal system, I said in a legal manner.....ie: not breaking the law like OWS.

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shakey    1,127

LOL, courage. If you mean courage to go out and make ridiculous accusations and be ridiculed for doing so, I get your point. However, that it not my idea of courage at all. People in the military who put their lives on the line on a regular basis to stand between freedom and terrorist ideals.......that is courage.

I didnt say in the legal system, I said in a legal manner.....ie: not breaking the law like OWS.

OK, name them. You are belittling them, so show us your answers.

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M_Lyons10    454

Hostile? wow, you stretch far.

Again, answer me. How would you protest a corrupt government? You seem to belittle those doing it, yet you seem to have no answer.... Come on, all high and mighty. Answer a question on how you would protest.

And Nerd Rage, you are so funny. You would protest a corrupt government, through its own legal system? Wow, You sure are ignorant to the way the world works.

Yes, hostile. It's a very accurate word to use for a group that destroyed police cars, stabbed several police officers, threw unknown liquids in their faces, vandalized banks, restaurants, food carts, and other private property, etc. How you could possibly think they were not hostile is beyond me.

Let's see. How would I protest? How about not like an animal? I am not categorically against protesting. This is (I think) the 3rd time I've mentioned that. But I AM against people disrespecting others, and their property. How about a peaceful protest? That's always a good start. The Tea Party movement just as an example hasn't degenerated into violence like the Occupy movement has. And for the record, the Tea Party has effected change AND had to pay for permits and such whenever they have an event. AND (This is the kicker), they clean up after themselves... I will never understand people that can even create the amount of filth Occupy has (And some other movements have)...

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HSoft    400

So you post an article that has nothing to do with the reasons you gave for not supporting these people?

Ha, where's all the despicable violence that you're speaking of? All that article basically says that is the trees are POSSIBLY being damaged, and POSSIBLY fish being are killed from people simply camping there.

Which is something new to me, I didn?t know camping would kill the trees or fish.

Maybe that?s why the oceans are almost depleted of fish, and the forests are being wiped daily, because of campers? Oh wait, that?s corporate greed doing that. Over logging, and over fishing.

LIGHT cosmetic damage to a park is well worth what they are protesting against, and the benefits their protests will bring to everyone?s lives.

Try again.

Go read the news, murders, drug overdoses, rapes, violence etc. Not exactly a shining beacon for people who want their rabid far left ideas taken seriously.

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shakey    1,127

Yes, hostile. It's a very accurate word to use for a group that destroyed police cars, stabbed several police officers, threw unknown liquids in their faces, vandalized banks, restaurants, food carts, and other private property, etc. How you could possibly think they were not hostile is beyond me.

Let's see. How would I protest? How about not like an animal? I am not categorically against protesting. This is (I think) the 3rd time I've mentioned that. But I AM against people disrespecting others, and their property. How about a peaceful protest? That's always a good start. The Tea Party movement just as an example hasn't degenerated into violence like the Occupy movement has. And for the record, the Tea Party has effected change AND had to pay for permits and such whenever they have an event. AND (This is the kicker), they clean up after themselves... I will never understand people that can even create the amount of filth Occupy has (And some other movements have)...

Again, name how you would protest. Tea party didn't protest. They had gatherings. Did their protest accomplish anything? Surely they didn't. The government didn't listen, and their little gatherings didn't make a single change.

Can you show sources for these "several police stabbings"? Cause all I have found, was 1 report that just said, A cop may have been stabbed by a broken bottle. That is just 1 maybe report.

You kid yourself in thinking that protest are supposed to be as civil as possible. They start civil, but slowly get violent as the government shows a deaf ear and blind eye.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest

Here, click that link and learn what protest are. If a protest isn't being acknowledge, it can grow violent, because it does no good to just say, " OK, they ignored us, lets just give up."

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Nerd Rage    546

OK, name them. You are belittling them, so show us your answers.

For one, if they are the 99%, pool your manpower together and back a presidential candidate who supports your cause. Obviously Obama hasn't punished Wallstreet the way that OWS see fit. If OWS were out in force supporting "their" candidate, that would actually make sense. Sitting on lawns in parks while everyone else continues with their days like nothing is going on....in my mind, that is not helping the OWS group achieve any goals. I don't see Obama looking at the news and saying "Wow, there's a lot of people camping in parks, maybe I should take action!"

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shakey    1,127

Go read the news, murders, drug overdoses, rapes, violence etc. Not exactly a shining beacon for people who want their rabid far left ideas taken seriously.

I guess we can just grossly generalize everything then. America in general is horrible, because we have neo natiz and KKK. The middle east is all horrible because of suicide bombers. The east is horrible because they eat dog and live under a communist leader. Australia was founded basically by criminals, so they are all evil. South America, screw that, a bunch of rebels and gorillaz that just rape and murder people.

See, we can all play that game.

For one, if they are the 99%, pool your manpower together and back a presidential candidate who supports your cause. Obviously Obama hasn't punished Wallstreet the way that OWS see fit. If OWS were out in force supporting "their" candidate, that would actually make sense. Sitting on lawns in parks while everyone else continues with their days like nothing is going on....in my mind, that is not helping the OWS group achieve any goals. I don't see Obama looking at the news and saying "Wow, there's a lot of people camping in parks, maybe I should take action!"

But this just shows how LITTLE knowledge you have about the movement. Here, let me get as simple as possible.

Government = car.

President = driver.

Wallstreet & Congress = mechanics.

Car is broken. You keep taking it to the mechanics, but it keeps breaking. So do you really think that putting a new driving in the seat is going to fix it?

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

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Nerd Rage    546

I guess we can just grossly generalize everything then. America in general is horrible, because we have neo natiz and KKK. The middle east is all horrible because of suicide bombers. The east is horrible because they eat dog and live under a communist leader. Australia was founded basically by criminals, so they are all evil. South America, screw that, a bunch of rebels and gorillaz that just rape and murder people.

See, we can all play that game.

But this just shows how LITTLE knowledge you have about the movement. Here, let me get as simple as possible.

Government = car.

President = driver.

Wallstreet & Congress = mechanics.

Car is broken. You keep taking it to the mechanics, but it keeps breaking. So do you really think that putting a new driving in the seat is going to fix it?

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Well based off of what you just said, the whole government needs replaced then. The only way for that to happen would be a civil war. "Peaceful" protests are NOT going to get you a "new car". You can spin it into any analogy you want to make yourself look good, but the bottom line is that OWS is accomplishing nothing except running the US into further debt by causing expenses in cleanup, police involvement, etc.

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Astra.Xtreme    2,869

So you're against something you obviously know nothing about? "1 or 2 murders", really? If you really were against something for a legit reason, you'd at least know the facts and not make up stuff and guess as you go.

People being murdered isnt something tiny that anyone should just guess about and use as an ignorent excuse.

What are you going on about? He wasn't wrong...

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shakey    1,127

Well based off of what you just said, the whole government needs replaced then. The only way for that to happen would be a civil war. "Peaceful" protests are NOT going to get you a "new car".

YAY, He finally got it!

That is actually what will come from this. The government has been sharing the bed too long, all of them, with wallstreet. There are a few good apples, but they have been buried by a lot more bad. We do need a total government reform. And that is why the government is trying to discredit and treat these protest as nothing, because they can see where this will be going. This happens in many countries. America is not some holy land that is above the rule. We can have the same strife as any other nation, especially when those in power start getting greedy.

No one wants for this to happen. It would be awesome if everything was just fine. But it isn't, and it hasn't been for quite some time.

The first step to fixing the issue to make sure we can cut as much corruption from government as possible. Right now, the easiest way, is to go after the biggest contributors, ala Wallstreet.

But you can not fix this system, but saying we all need to work within it. It just isn't possible. Do you really think those in the seats of power, want to lose their 400k a year jobs, when they only have to work for like 80 days out of the full year? And during those meager days they work, they still can't compromise and make a decision for the good of the nation. Instead, they separate and divide the nation, and make decisions based on what will move them farther along in their party or office. You just can't work with in a system that doesn't work in the first place.

Nerd, i thank you for this one post, in which you finally understood the situation... though I am not fully sure you understand the complete situation.

Edit- I added more, so if you have posted, please read.

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Soulsiphon    73

Go read the news, murders, drug overdoses, rapes, violence etc. Not exactly a shining beacon for people who want their rabid far left ideas taken seriously.

I read the news every day but I admit to not having ever seen mentioned the atrocities you claim to have occurred. Not saying they haven't, just have seen zero about any of that.

As far as 'rabid far left ideas'...is the prospect of extremely wealthy citizens and corporations actually paying some taxes rather than paying next to nothing or even getting a refund (Exxon) that rabidly far left?

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shakey    1,127

What are you going on about? He wasn't wrong...

But he was using it in a way that grossly symbolizes a movement in a way that it shouldn't be used as. I already made a post that shows why you can generalize anything based off the actions of a very very few.

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Nerd Rage    546

YAY, He finally got it!

That is actually what will come from this. The government has been sharing the bed too long, all of them, with wallstreet. There are a few good apples, but they have been buried by a lot more bad. We do need a total government reform. And that is why the government is trying to discredit and treat these protest as nothing, because they can see where this will be going. This happens in many countries. America is not some holy land that is above the rule. We can have the same strife as any other nation, especially when those in power start getting greedy.

No one wants for this to happen. It would be awesome if everything was just fine. But it isn't, and it hasn't been for quite some time.

The first step to fixing the issue to make sure we can cut as much corruption from government as possible. Right now, the easiest way, is to go after the biggest contributors, ala Wallstreet.

But you can not fix this system, but saying we all need to work within it. It just isn't possible. Do you really think those in the seats of power, want to lose their 400k a year jobs, when they only have to work for like 80 days out of the full year? And during those meager days they work, they still can't compromise and make a decision for the good of the nation. Instead, they separate and divide the nation, and make decisions based on what will move them farther along in their party or office. You just can't work with in a system that doesn't work in the first place.

Nerd, i thank you for this one post, in which you finally understood the situation... though I am not fully sure you understand the complete situation.

I've never been arguing with you about the government being corrupt and needing an overhaul. I actually agree. What I've been arguing about is that OWS is doing nothing to accomplish anything from what I can see. Their strategies just lack logic overall in my opinion.

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Astra.Xtreme    2,869

But he was using it in a way that grossly symbolizes a movement in a way that it shouldn't be used as. I already made a post that shows why you can generalize anything based off the actions of a very very few.

True, but fact is that the ones who push it too far ruin it for everybody. It's the same rationality as to why racism still exists.

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shakey    1,127

I've never been arguing with you about the government being corrupt and needing an overhaul. I actually agree. What I've been arguing about is that OWS is doing nothing to accomplish anything from what I can see. Their strategies just lack logic overall in my opinion.

Nope, they are actually doing what every other nations citizens have done in the same situation.. although maybe based around different reasons.

First, the people will try the system out. They will elect a Dem, they will elect a Repub. It will go back and forth, until 1 day they realize, this isn't working. So they gather together and protest. If the protest are heard and changes are made, the protest was a success, and doesn't escalate. People go home, all is well until something goes wrong again.

But, if the protestors are ignored, the government will first try and belittle and berate those protesting, to try and gain support for their failing system. Those protesting though, will get angered as more time passes, but nothing is being done by the powers at be. At some point, tension reaches a boiling point, either on the protestors sides, or the government, and violence ensues.

No one wants it to reach that point. But that is how history has shown it to always go. There is nothing pretty about it. There is nothing nice. It isn't something that will be resolved quickly, just as the destruction of the country wasn't quick. Everything takes time, and just because you can't see it right now, doesn't mean it isn't doing something.

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Nerd Rage    546

Every other country in recent history where the "protests" have worked to achieve a new government were extremely violent and required outside countries involvement to achieve success. Do you really want a government put in place in the United States that was hand picked by a foreign country? Seems very illogical to me.

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ArialBlue    395

There is nothing wrong with violence. It is the only way to get things working.

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shakey    1,127

Every other country in recent history where the "protests" have worked to achieve a new government were extremely violent and required outside countries involvement to achieve success. Do you really want a government put in place in the United States that was hand picked by a foreign country? Seems very illogical to me.

Actually, most overthrows have been aided by US, and we have put in either dictators or completely left the country up to itself to govern itself. If we were helped, which we most likely wouldn't be by any form of other government, it would come from Europe. But no other nation, unless they tried to just completely take us over during this, would help us as I perceive.

Let me link this, it is a very crude and simple timeline of how the American Civil War started. Note how it started off with people playing by the rules, until they noticed the rules were not addressing the situation properly, and neither was the government.

http://www.civil-war...es/timeline.asp

But I'm glad you posted that, because it brings up a relevant issue. We have had our army leaders, training other countries armies for some time. I also pictured that this wasn't only for that nations security, but for our governments security towards its people at a later time.

Get this if you can. We already see it happening right now, vets aiding the protestors. We can see that right now, our army has good guys in it ,that would totally defy orders if they were told to "shoot" their own. I'm sure many police would do the same as well if it came to that. But what would be better than a foreign army to help a government keep control? They wouldn't have any blood ties to anyone here. They wouldn't be able to really relate, so they wouldn't really care. It would be sort of how our army has been over in the middle east, where you hear some horror stories of what some soldiers have done.

I really hope I am wrong on that, and that it never shows up. But wouldn't that be some ****... having some israeli army on our land, following our government orders to keep them safe, and to subdue us.....

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HSoft    400

I read the news every day but I admit to not having ever seen mentioned the atrocities you claim to have occurred. Not saying they haven't, just have seen zero about any of that.

As far as 'rabid far left ideas'...is the prospect of extremely wealthy citizens and corporations actually paying some taxes rather than paying next to nothing or even getting a refund (Exxon) that rabidly far left?

Police are investigating a fatal shooting near the Occupy Oakland protest in California, a man was found dead in his tent at Occupy New Orleans and an apparent suicide at Occupy Burlington in Vermont.

In Vancouver, Canada a woman in her 20s was found dead of a drug overdose in a tent at Occupy Vancouver

An ?Occupy Cleveland? protester tells police she was raped in her tent over the weekend.

CBS 11 News has learned of an investigation into the possible sexual assault of a 14-year-old girl at the Occupy Dallas campsite.

etc. etc. etc.

I really don't know what news you read but the stories of rape, murder, overdoses, under age sex, violence have been reported in most if not all the main stream news for months.

Is the eradication of Capitalism to be replaced by a marxist style government rabidly far left? I think so and I think you'll find many other do. Hence why very few people take OWS seriously.

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shakey    1,127

etc. etc. etc.

I really don't know what news you read but the stories of rape, murder, overdoses, under age sex, violence have been reported in most if not all the main stream news for months.

Is the eradication of Capitalism to be replaced by a marxist style government rabidly far left? I think so and I think you'll find many other do. Hence why very few people take OWS seriously.

Actually, a lot of people take is seriously. The government for 1. If they weren't, they would be treating this like they did the Tea Party "Protest". Now those are protest the government didn't take seriously.

And again, a few bad apples doesn't make the whole movement. If you want to say it does, you basically must also have the mindset that all Muslims are terrorist... That all Christians are pedophiles.... That all black people steal...

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