14-year-old shot after reportedly breaking into home

[DocM]

>

Use a non/less lethal round as a warning shot.

>

Considering actor Brandon Lee (The Crow) was killed by a blank round, just what kind of non-lethal ammunition would you suggest? Let me save you the effort: there's no such animal.

Beyond that - in most states States the next steps up, bean bags & rubber bullets fired from a shotgun, are for Military or Law Enforcement use only, meaning usually illegal for civilians, and also quite lethal at the close ranges within a dwelling.

Repeating my CCW instructor for the umpteenth time: don't shoot to wound, shoot to kill.

With that in mind, IMO the proper ammo's for -

Shotguns: buckshot size 4 (.24 cal/6 mm) or larger.

Pistols: hollow point bullets geared to produce hydrostatic shock; Federal Hydra-Shok or Tactical HST (my favorite), Remington Golden Sabre, Winchester Ranger, COR-BON Self Defense JHP, DPX, Pow'RBall etc. The great test pilot Chuck Yeager compares the effect of hydrostatic shock bullets to a shaped charge explosive.

[Nashy]

American Gun Laws. lol.

[Nashy]

Considering actor Brandon Lee (The Crow) was killed by a blank round, just what kind of non-lethal ammunition would you suggest? Let me save you the effort: there's no such animal.

Beyond that - in most states States the next steps up, bean bags & rubber bullets fired from a shotgun, are for Military or Law Enforcement use only, meaning usually illegal for civilians, and also quite lethal at the close ranges within a dwelling.

Repeating my CCW instructor for the umpteenth time: don't shoot to wound, shoot to kill.

With that in mind, IMO the proper ammo's for -

Shotguns: buckshot size 4 (.24 cal/6 mm) or larger.

Pistols: hollow point bullets geared to produce hydrostatic shock; Federal Hydra-Shok or Tactical HST (my favorite), Remington Golden Sabre, Winchester Ranger, COR-BON Self Defense JHP, DPX, Pow'RBall etc. The great test pilot Chuck Yeager compares the effect of these bullets to a shaped charge explosive.

That's all well and good, but you're obviously a gun nut. Which is scary that the law in your country allows it.

[DocM]

I am a gun owner. Nuts use them irresponsibly - I and the vast majority of those like me don't.

FYI: in a few municipalities there are laws requiring gun ownership. Other places encourage having one for self defense, and with a gun ownership rate of well over 50%....

[Nashy]

That just confirms my belief that American gun laws are pathetic. There is absolutely NO reason to legally own half the guns available for sale over there.

[DocM]

Consider this: with a population of over 300,000,000 and the average rate of sociopathy of 5% that means we have 15,000,000 dangerous people running around. Now add the other dangerous subtypes and we have a group of genuinely scary people larger than your entire isolated country.

The problem is we aren't isolated; we have drug cartel driven civil war going on in Mexico that crosses our border and spreads across our entire country in the form of outfits like MS-13 etc. In most of the US there aren't enough cops in the whole state to provide enough coverage, and by the time you call them and they get there all that's left to do is put you in a body bag and take care of the mostly bureaucratic problems of arrest and trial. Doesn't do much good for families like the Petit's in Connecticut.

As a result a lot of us, and the police, have accepted that aggressive self defense is not only a goods idea it's the only sensible idea for this country.

[Biotoxic_hazard_835]

MEDICAL LAKE, Wash. -- A teenager was transported to a local hospital after the Spokane County Sheriff?s Office says he broke into a Medical Lake home.

It happened just before 5 a.m. in the 600 block of N Grant Avenue near Percival Street.

Police received a call from a woman who said someone was breaking into her home and that her husband was holding the suspect in the backyard. Minutes later she reported that the suspect was shot.

Police say the homeowner woke to noises in a back room of his home. He reportedly grabbed his pistol and went to investigate the disturbance. He allegedly found two people in his home and shot one of them.

That suspect, 14, was transported to a downtown hospital where he underwent surgery. There is no word yet on his condition.

The second person, another 14-year-old, was reportedly seen jumping the couple?s back fence and running down an alley. He was later identified and contacted at his home by police.

The sheriff?s department is not sure what the suspects? intentions were when they broke into the home.

The sheriff?s department says that the two suspects had baseball bats at the time the husband confronted them.

They allegedly broke into an enclosed room beneath the couple?s back deck. The husband told police that the room was broken into several days prior, but he did not report that break-in. He did add an alarm to his home after that attempt, which alerted him to Monday?s break-in.

Deputies seized the .45-caliber pistol used in the shooting.

source

Are you fuc*ing kidding me ? If someone breaks into your house at 5:00 am carrying baseball bats it is for sure they are not coming to collect for the Red Cross or to sell you Girl Scout cookies. If they do that in my house they'll get a belly full of buckshoot. The age has nothing to do with the fact that they were entering a house to burglarize it and the fact they were carrying basball bats proves they had the intention to harm anyone that opposed them.

[ncoday]

Chances of say, rock salt, will not kill someone unless you are at close range. Then even then its questionable depending on where you the person. Rock salt wont go thru walls, into the next house, or rupture a gas line. This is what I load in my shotgun (first load only) and why I say the first shot is a warning. If they dont go down after that and still advance towards me, then they will go down soon after.

http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm

.

Have you ever had to fire at someone who is charging you?

You don't get a second chance. You get one chance before they are on you trying to wrestle the gun away from you.

[DocM]

Precisely, and if they're within 20 feet you'd better act quickly because the rate of distance closure is that fast.

I can't believe the BS notions some people have from TV and uninformed wild-ass assumptions. Once you've 'been there' those notions melt away fast, if you survive.

Are you fuc*ing kidding me ? If someone breaks into your house at 5:00 am carrying baseball bats it is for sure they are not coming to collect for the Red Cross or to sell you Girl Scout cookies.

I believe that's called a politically correct statement :rolleyes:

[Nashy]

You're missing the point completely. But that's fine, I find that with most gun owners in the states, they simpl can't see how stupid their laws are.

If the police are saying people should use guns, then I think the police need some more funding to actually do their job. Do you really think America is the only country in the world with gangs, violence and drugs?

Why would a regular person ever need an M16? But in America a person, with enough money, can legally buy one.

Your gun laws are idiotic and irresponsible. There is no denying that, it's common knowledge across the world.

[mokthraka]

whats your point? an M16 costs around $22,000 if your talking about it being automatic in the US. an AK-47 is around $18,000

regardless of weather they are legal or not, people who use them for crimes will still get them. You can get an AK-47 in the EU for under $1000. fully automatic.

or I can make a decent gun for cheap. its really simple actually

[DocM]

AND to own one you need subject yourself to a Federal anal exam.

And the thing our friend doesn't understand is that the right to bear arms is part of our Constitution - part of the Bill of Rights and confirmed by the US Supreme Court - twice in the last few years. We firmly believe in the right to self defense, and the right to pursue it aggressively. Don't like it? Stay in OZ.

Also be aware that before the liberalization of State gun laws started in 1991-2 violent crime rates were much higher than today, and at every new State law change they went down to another lower plateau. Consensus is that the baddies are learning, slowly perhaps but still.

[Rippleman]

You're missing the point completely. But that's fine, I find that with most gun owners in the states, they simpl can't see how stupid their laws are.

If the police are saying people should use guns, then I think the police need some more funding to actually do their job. Do you really think America is the only country in the world with gangs, violence and drugs?

Why would a regular person ever need an M16? But in America a person, with enough money, can legally buy one.

Your gun laws are idiotic and irresponsible. There is no denying that, it's common knowledge across the world.

In stead of arguing about what could have happened, just place yourself in theses shoes. You, your wife, and your young children are asleep. At 5 am you hear noises coming from inside your house. You go look to see what the noise is and you see its 2 men with baseball bats. If your instinct is not to protect your loved ones, then I sure am sad for the wife and kids you have (or will have). But i am pretty sure that EVEN IF YOU SAID "no i wouldn't shoot" i think in real life your surviVal instincts kick in and you would do it anyways. You can't fight instinct. And for the record, i am not from the states, nor do i own a gun but i have access to guns and am trained to use them. But also having said that, most people that do have guns shouldn't have guns. Double edged sword i guess.

[techbeck]

Considering actor Brandon Lee (The Crow) was killed by a blank round, just what kind of non-lethal ammunition would you suggest? Let me save you the effort: there's no such animal.

And is why I included LESS in my original comment. Less meaning less likely to kill you.

Repeating my CCW instructor for the umpteenth time: don't shoot to wound, shoot to kill.

And I've heard instructors say different things as well. Like teaching you when and when not to fire. Guess it depends on who is teaching the class. Again, I would rather make a quick accessment of the situation before I take someone's life. People claiming they were acting under the castle doctrine have been found guilty as well as those who have not.

Have you ever had to fire at someone who is charging you?

You don't get a second chance. You get one chance before they are on you trying to wrestle the gun away from you.

Depends on what weapon you are using.

[eveready]

Your gun laws are idiotic and irresponsible. There is no denying that, it's common knowledge across the world.

Don't forget, there's no crime in the rest of the world.

[Southern Patriot]

That's all well and good, but you're obviously a gun nut. Which is scary that the law in your country allows it.

No, what is scary is all of the countries like yours that are so ****ing paranoid of guns that they don't even give you the OPTION of defending yourself from criminals. You also need to consider that unlike most countries in the world, the US has huge areas where the population density is on the order of a few dozen to a couple hundred people per square mile. Not that many places are as populated as what you see on American TV (where you mostly see places like NYC or LA). To adequately cover areas with low population densities like that, you'd need for nearly one in 100 people to be a police officer or sheriff deputy. While overall, Australia has a very low population density, that is mostly because you have a huge area in the middle of your country where the population is essentially zero, with probably 99% of the population around the coastline. A very different situation than in the US (other than the desert areas out west here).

[DocM]

Right. Even here in the midwest once out of downtown areas the population density is at best a few thousand per sq mi., and about 15 miles out from here it's at best a couple hundred with 20+ miles between police stations.

in Northern Michigan the towns may be 300 or so souls in 50 square miles and National Forest between with perhaps 2-3 cops to cover it all. Many towns have no cops at all & depend on the County Sheriff, with them mainly handling teaffic duties and cleaning up the mess.

[Dinggus]

Use a non/less lethal round as a warning shot.

And its not as simple, IMO, as someone in your house with a weapon and they get shot. If I see someone with a bat, I am not going to shoot and kill them. If I see someone with a weapon drawn (gun) rooting around inside my home, thats a different story. Someone with a gun out normally intends to use it. Someone with a bat or other melee weapons, I will warn them first. And if there is no weapon present, I will warn them as well.

Yes, let me load my magazines to have the first round as a "non-lethal" round.

A weapon is a weapon; bat, gun, knife.

[DocM]

Non lethals are worthless - with most of the maroons you'd use them on it would just tick them off worse and get them moving at you, reducing the likelihood you'd get an effective real shot off.

Not to mention that if they were wearing heavy clothing it wouldn't sting enough to deter them - they'd think you were shooting an Airsoft (toy gun that shoots plastic 6mm pellets) and they could walk through subsequent shots.

Stupid tactic that puts you and your family at increased risk.

[techbeck]

Stupid tactic that puts you and your family at increased risk.

You have your opinion, I have mine. You have a certain way you were told, and I have a certain why I was told/instructed. Call it stupid...I dont really care and I never called your way of thinking stupid. You have your way of thinking and doing things and I respect that. If I feel like I need to put someone down to protect myself or others, then I will.

[Soulsiphon]

I love how Americans feel everything is resolved with shooting this or that.

I love how any moron with a chip on his or her shoulder towards America can come to Neowin and pick a fight by making absolutely baseless and clueless accusations.

[Soulsiphon]

You're missing the point completely. But that's fine, I find that with most gun owners in the states, they simpl can't see how stupid their laws are.

If the police are saying people should use guns, then I think the police need some more funding to actually do their job. Do you really think America is the only country in the world with gangs, violence and drugs?

Why would a regular person ever need an M16? But in America a person, with enough money, can legally buy one.

Your gun laws are idiotic and irresponsible. There is no denying that, it's common knowledge across the world.

More America bashing, but hey, why waste the energy to form your own rational arguments. Since you obviously know nothing about the US OR it's gone laws kid and are just trolling for a fight - maybe you should shadup before you embarrass yourself any further.

For the record (and since you couldn't be bothered to find out the facts before posting this garbage); an M16 is a fully automatic, military weapon and so is illegal for citizens to possess in America.

[eveready]

M16 is a fully automatic, military weapon and so is illegal for citizens to possess in America.

It is perfectly legal to own a transferable (pre-1986) M16. Complete with "fun switch".

[DocM]

It is perfectly legal to own a transferable (pre-1986) M16. Complete with "fun switch".

True, but to get one requires a Federal anal exam by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms; 3+ months of paperwork processing; it being legal to posess a Class 3 weapon under your States law; and the payment of a Federal tax.

After all that you get to pay a price so high as to be the same as a dozen or more conventional hunting rifles that are more effective/shot, which is why the US military is looking to replace the M-16 and why so many soldiers preferred using most anything else.

[eveready]

NFA wait times are upwards of 6+ months these days (from what i've heard...)

FA is fun, but I wouldn't ever buy one under the current extortion plan. Even the cheapest transferable MGs are around $4-5k, and I don't live in a free state.