Metro haters and Microsoft haters in general

[Stoffel]

Many of us are also industry vets who've seen things change many times over the years and not for the better much of the time.

Don't mistake criticism on the part of many of the posters here for resisting change for the sake of it but rather them seeing it as not improving the usability of the OS in question.

I've been messing around with pc's for over 22 years, I started out with MS DOS version 3 i think and worked with MS products ever since. Both recreational and professional. And I for one really like the direction MS is going with Metro and the desktop

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with criticism.

The reason i started this tread is because i'm so tired of the people just commenting the same b*llsh*it over and over and trying to sell it as facts

[LittleNeutrino Veteran]

Metro is fine on integrated devices (phones, Xbox) however on windows i do not think it is practical.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Don?t get me wrong I think Metro is a beautiful UI for a touch interface, fantastic even, but only for a touch interface. The problem with Microsoft is they don?t think out of the box. They think everything needs the same UI. This is why, when in early 2001 / 2002 Gates tried to get tablets mainstream he failed. To him everything had to run windows. He took the Windows XP UI, added a few touch / pen enhancements on it and slapped it onto a laptop with a touch screen.

You just can?t take something that wasn?t made for touch and slap some touch modifications on top. That?s what happened with Windows Mobile 6.5. Sure on the surface touch worked but once you started to get back into the bowls of the OS you were met with a UI built for a stylus. Microsoft learned their lesson (or did they) and realized they had to build something from the ground up that was made for touch and geared towards the mobile market. Thus Windows Phone 7 OS was born.

Now along comes Metro on Windows 8 and back to the tablet market they go. So now they think, hmm?. We have Windows 7 which is a great OS, much like how they thought Windows Mobile 5 was a great OS, but just needed some touch enhancements. So now they build a touch interface on top of Windows 7. The problem is, the same thing is going to happen on Tablets, which happened on Windows Mobile devices when they tried to build a touch UI onto something that wasn?t built for the finger. Sure metro will be great, but once the user leaves Metro they are met with something that was made for a mouse and keyboard.

What they should have done, is taken the Windows Phone 7 OS, the OS that was made for touch inside and put it on their tablets. Having just said that, I?m going to get people that say ?OH NOES, can?t do that, because people can?t be productive with the WP7 OS!?. My response to that is, anybody who wants to be productive is not going to be using a tablet and touching a screen with their finger. They are going to grab a laptop or go to their desktop which utilizes a mouse and keyboard.

Because Microsoft thinks that one OS and UI should rule them all they decided to bring the Metro UI designed for touch over to the desktop and laptop market. Essentially doing in reverse what they did to the tablet market back in 2001 /2002. In the early 2000?s they brought a mouse and keyboard UI to a tablet, and now they are bringing a touch UI to the mouse and keyboard.

[Melfster]

Many of us are also industry vets who've seen things change many times over the years and not for the better much of the time.

Don't mistake criticism on the part of many of the posters here for resisting change for the sake of it but rather them seeing it as not improving the usability of the OS in question.

I get that ....But how can you make judgement on something that's not finished. I think everyone knew at microsoft it was going to create ****s storm when they unveiled Windows 8. I think whole point of Windows 8 is usability and to drive industry in a new direction.

Only time will tell if it works.

[Miuku.]

The reason i started this tread is because i'm so tired of the people just commenting the same b*llsh*it over and over and trying to sell it as facts

But these things are "facts" for the people posting them - it's their point of view and it's just as valid as anyone elses. Things like user interfaces or usability in general are very, very objective things and just because you disagree with someone over how, for example, Metro looks like doesn't make either your or his/her opinion wrong, it's just different.

To both of you your own perception of reality is a fact. You cannot measure something like this with scientific experiments or repeated tests.

[Stoffel]

But these things are "facts" for the people posting them - it's their point of view and it's just as valid as anyone elses. Things like user interfaces or usability in general are very, very objective things and just because you disagree with someone over how, for example, Metro looks like doesn't make either your or his/her opinion wrong, it's just different.

To both of you your perception of reality is a fact - to you.

That's where i think you are wrong. Opinion and fact are very different things.

The French have a saying "Des go?ts et des couleurs on ne discute pas"

Which roughly means you can't argue about colors or taste.

I see fact as something that is proven to be true, an opinion is just how i feel about something, but that doesn't make it a fact

[MS Bob 11]

The only thing I am opposed to is that release after release of constant interface changes leads to loss of functionality and loss of productivity because of the time required to be spent on re-learning stuff. So yes, you can call me a Metro hater, but not because it looks bad design or aesthetics-wise but because it's completely uncalled for on desktops, laptops and servers or any large screen device. I embrace change if I am convinced that it's better and problem is I can find a dozen flaws in the new or changed interface which no one seems to notice and then they start calling me hater although my intention is to point out the flaws so they will be addressed. As long as radical interface changes don't decrease productivity of any input method (keyboard, mouse etc) and isn't a step back I embrace change. Otherwise I resent it. On tablets, the need to change the UI was there because the Windows 7 UI although supporting touch is too tiny for small screens which tablets have. Microsoft hasn't given a convincing explanation why Metro should take over all products and all larger screens. So it really IS change for sake of change that's happening on the desktop. And yes of course we have to criticize while it's beta SO it will be fixed before RTM. What's the point of complaining after RTM of a product? The most recent example of loss due to unnecessary change is the Xbox 360 Metro dashboard that resulted in video playback issues. Or the ribbon in Office which 50% seem to like and 50% just can't get over it. Or the move to WPF in Visual Studio 2010 that only slowed down the IDE massively so much so that the top issue on Visual Studio uservoice is performance!

[still1]

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with criticism.

The reason i started this tread is because i'm so tired of the people just commenting the same b*llsh*it over and over and trying to sell it as facts

Again dont take this the wrong way. I am trying to tell my views...

"Isnt it the same with people who like Win 8 metro and comment the same b*llsh*it over and over and trying to sell it as facts"

This is what a guy will think who hate win 8 metro style.

But i have to say when an Apple Fanboy come and say bad about win8 then that should stop and its called trolling.

I dont really think the Apple fanboys are doing that... its the MS users who are disliking metro

[fix-this!]

lets be VERY clear. i DO NOT hate microsoft, i LOATH metro.

[Vice]

I've been using Microsofts software for something like 15 years now and I've been happy to use Windows 95, 98, XP, Vista, 7 and on my server I've used Windows Server 2003 and now 2008 R2. So with all this said I would not consider myself a MIcrosoft hater. I like their operating systems and I think the XBOX 360 is a great product too.

But Metro I just don't like, give me an off switch and I'll be happy to upgrade to Windows 8 for all the other innovations they intend to include.

[fix-this!]

I've been using Microsofts software for something like 15 years now and I've been happy to use Windows 95, 98, XP, Vista, 7 and on my server I've used Windows Server 2003 and now 2008 R2. So with all this said I would not consider myself a MIcrosoft hater. I like their operating systems and I think the XBOX 360 is a great product too.

But Metro I just don't like, give me an off switch and I'll be happy to upgrade to Windows 8 for all the other innovations they intend to include.

+1

[Miuku.]

I see fact as something that is proven to be true, an opinion is just how i feel about something, but that doesn't make it a fact

We'll have to agree to disagree here as some people also consider "opinions based on experience and testing" to be facts.

Either way, this thread is derailing pretty heavily if we start talking about philosophical points of view :)

[Melfster]

Windows 8 is not about old hardware. Its about new hardware that hasn't been released. Heres where Microsoft gets a lot points. Microsoft strategy is about building 1 device that is both a tablet and laptop. If you look at lenovo yoga you get sense that is what windows 8 is aimed at.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

One could easily turn around and say "do we really need threads that repeat the same positive things over and over."

It is pretty simple. People are allowed to share their opinion, both positive and negative, as long as they do so in a respectful way that follows the rules of the community.

What you are requesting is some perfect utopia that just does not exist in life, never mind the internet.

[Astra.Xtreme]

Honestly, I think this is blown out of proportion. I haven't seen that much actual trolling in regards to Metro. It's all been complaints about either the styling in general, or the possibility of it not being able to be disabled. In such case, it's just that people are angry for having something completely new "forced" on them. I use the term "forced" loosely because they obviously don't have to use Windows 8, but you get the idea.

In the end, it's really not going to matter because if Microsoft doesn't natively give us an "off" switch, there will be (and already are) apps that will disable it.

Again, I think people are just taking other people's opinions too much at heart. We should all know that everybody here is not only culturally different, but have different tastes in tech. Unless somebody is directly taking a personal shot at somebody, everything is just part of the discussion.

[Stoffel]

I'll be back later to spread my opinions and facts but I have to go and paint my bodega now

See you all later

[firey]

I wouldn't call myself a Metro Hater, more a disliker. I have tried out WP7 didn't like the tiles, made the choice to get an Atrix (Android). This was coming from a Blackberry so there wasn't a closed mind set.

I tried to Developer preview,I played around with the metro, tried to make it somewhat useful for how I use a computer and ended up 9/10 times on the regular desktop. I ended up disabling metro via the registry hacks, as I just couldn't get it setup as I want, or how my standard use of a computer is. I am a huge fan of Windows 7, and honestly I liked how Vista looked too. I don't like Linux or Mac as day to day operating systems, so by no means do I hate windows. I simply dislike Metro. Windows 8 seems like a giant leap ahead with the technology, and what is under the hood, however to me it falls retardedly short on presentation.

I don't hate change, every day I run updates, look for better programs, etc. However with Windows 8 I feel that the Metro interface (From what I have used it on WP7 and W8 DP) is ugly, take up too much real-estate, and having to use my mouse to scroll up and down....to go left and right... to view all my programs is just a PITA. I hate that everything launched in full screen, and I couldn't find an easy way to exit half of them. I make my choices and opinions based on my experience, for me the "Metro Experience" felt a little amateur, and a large step backwards from the WOW that I felt W7 to be. If you don't like peoples opinions then get off the internet, the internet is 99.9% opinion.. see even that is my opinion.

I know it's an age old Windows 8 argument, but Metro and the ability to remove it (which some say is possible, others say it's not) would be purely the deciding factor on my migration to it, and my advice for others that come to me for advice regarding computers. As it stands now, my distaste for Metro would be a solid negative on the W8 Front.

[neo158]

I don't think, having used the WDP, that Metro works very well with a keyboard and mouse.

Having said that, I love the Metro interface on my Windows Phone and I will probably get a Windows 8 Tablet as well.

[Anthonyd]

I don't think, having used the WDP, that Metro works very well with a keyboard and mouse.

Having said that, I love the Metro interface on my Windows Phone and I will probably get a Windows 8 Tablet as well.

The DP is missing a lot of features, as showed at the CES.

Few examples of things you can't do in the DP :

-can't even close a metro apps

-can't create group on the startscreen menu (along with the panzoom).

-There is a lack of all the cool metro appz (like messaging)

[Pettor]

I have a question. For me it has always been obvious that Microsoft will let the users on desktop PC's use the old style start menu. Everyone seem to talk about it as a fact that the Metro-style will indeed be the only option available? This would be a mistake I think, but if I can use the old start menu I see no problem. So have Microsoft themselves said anything about this?

[The_Observer]

Hi,

I'm starting this tread for all the people on Neowin who hate the direction Microsoft is going with Metro and for all the people who generally dislike Microsoft.

Can you guys just all come and hang out here for the future and stay away from all the other MS related treads

Specially if you got nothing better to say then

It's ugly, it's not user friendly, it's a step back,....

MS is this, MS is that,....

I know forums are for sharing your thoughts but it's just getting silly

Every post you read about Win 8 the same people are back saying the same old thing again

It's getting tiring

If you have nothing nice to stay, just stay away. You don't find me sh*tting all over your Android and Apple treads.

I'm sure other people here on Neowin would appreciate it too

Cheers

Hey thanks for this, now could you post one just like it for Linux and Apple.

[max22]

I fully agree Stoffel!

[Charisma Veteran]

I agree with what many have said... And I will go as far as to say the Metro interface will be nice for phones and tablets, mobile touchscreen devices. But not for the desktop PC--and no matter what they are trying to say or do, there will always be a place for the regular PC, with mouse and keyboard interface.

[matt4pack]

Most people who use a computing device want a typical desktop interface. People like having desktop wallpapers and a workspace yet Microsoft is throwing all that's tried and tested out the window.

The tile interface is a great notification panel or xbox dashboard but as the main desktop it just doesn't work. There's no need to force an interface on people by trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist but that's what Microsoft is doing.

[fix-this!]

all i want is an off switch and ill be happy.