Sulphy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hey guys... I just got asked an interesting question.... and i wonder, if anyone here that is a bigger geek than me (no offence intended) and can indeed answer it.... Describe / list the processes and procedures that occur, naming as many server side technologies involved that take place when a pc / laptop joins a corporate domain. From the windows booting screen to desktop usable state .... I thought i would be able to answer this in an interview.... and think it might have been a red herring to test me... but its now driving me insane...>! your insight and help in this would be an epic one! Thanks!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulphy Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Ok... i have kinda compiled a preliminary list of what takes place...! but still not sure... ill probably post it up later, or tomorrow... after some more thinking...! IT HURTS!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limok Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 the answer is: a hell of a load of s**t and mapped network drives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulphy Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 the answer is: a hell of a load of s**t and mapped network drives Funny one!!! hehehehhee!!!:) This i know.... i rattled thru about 10 minutes of what i thought... and still dont know if it was right.,... but am gonna phone him back tomorrow.... and answer his question... it is of course for a dream job!!!!!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffneckting Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Post your list so we can see what you have :) I am quite intrigued myself. I will add a few and see if we can get the ball rolling. DHCP, DNS, NETBIOS?, Kerberos, LDAP, IPSEC, Group Policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+BudMan MVC Posted January 26, 2012 MVC Share Posted January 26, 2012 I agree this is a very intriguing question -- but is really too vague to be able to get a full sort of answer States "when a pc / laptop joins a corporate domain", but there are many network protocols that would be used when PC boots that have nothing to do with the function of joining a domain. For example dhcp and dns as stated could be used by any device connecting to a network - and dhcp for example is not a requirement to join the domain. Nor does dhcp have to be supplied by windows server tech.. Dhcp could be supplied by the switch on the network for example - not a "server side technology" Is 802.1x on this network - this can mean a whole slew of stuff that has to happen for the client to talk on the network that could have nothing at all to do with the windows AD environment, or could be tied in with the AD as well. So without out those details do you talk about them or not? "windows booting screen to desktop usable state" You could prob write a book on the windows OS (btw which flavor) boot process alone -- much of which has nothing to do with the actual joining of the domain? Also the question does not state if the computer account was created in the domain before hand or not, process would be different depending if this is the case or not. it quite possible the offline join was performed -- again this would a completely different scenario when that client machine boots for first time on the AD network. I would think if you can talk intelligently about the different network protocols that may or may not be involved in a Windows Network - be it joining the domain or not. And bringing up the tools/methods that would be used to troubleshoot a client not being able to join the domain would be a great start. Asking questions to the question like has LDAP signing been enforced - what flavor of client (xp, vista, 7) is joining the domain, is it a 2k3 or 2k8 domain all these variables could change the actual process that happens or required different things to be done on the client to allow it to join or prevent it from joining. But again as worded I don't think it even possible to fully answer without a very long discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulphy Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Ok.... what i have so far.... please dont knock me too hard guys.... i know what i know, only by self taught methods... i have actually never thought about this myself... list below is VERY much work in progress.... not sure where to put NETBIOS, LDAP, IPSEC etc....... not given them a thought till now...! PLEASE... help me get this list going!!! :) * During BOOT * lan card power up, checks for power, lan connectivity, initialises lan card, as long as drivers are installed and initialised... * at windows boot - system requests IP from DHCP * handshake * IP obtained - depends on if reserved in DHCP or random dynamic IP -> logged in Event viewer * Gateway address obtained -> logged in Event viewer * Request for DNS from PDC (i know PDC is not really relevant anymore) -> logged in Event viewer * Handshake * DNS obtained -> IP allowed -> logged in Event viewer * U/N + P/W passed to Domain Controller -> AD -> logged in Event viewer * AD verification * Success -> pass on logon scripts (allow shares, restrictions (ie printing grey scale / colour) additional actions) * Group policies pushed to client (update if required) * Client applies GP updates * Booting progresses * Explorer.exe initialises -> desktop initialises -> unless GP requires interaction with corporate notification / warning window * SCCM or SCE verify, and push if necessary windows updates to clients (silent) (older version is MOM) * If corp antivirus is in use, console interrogates clients and updates def's / sig's if necessary (silent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xendrome Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Do I detect someone getting their school work help on Neowin? Tekkerson 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulphy Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I agree this is a very intriguing question -- but is really too vague to be able to get a full sort of answer States "when a pc / laptop joins a corporate domain", but there are many network protocols that would be used when PC boots that have nothing to do with the function of joining a domain. For example dhcp and dns as stated could be used by any device connecting to a network - and dhcp for example is not a requirement to join the domain. Nor does dhcp have to be supplied by windows server tech.. Dhcp could be supplied by the switch on the network for example - not a "server side technology" Is 802.1x on this network - this can mean a whole slew of stuff that has to happen for the client to talk on the network that could have nothing at all to do with the windows AD environment, or could be tied in with the AD as well. So without out those details do you talk about them or not? "windows booting screen to desktop usable state" You could prob write a book on the windows OS (btw which flavor) boot process alone -- much of which has nothing to do with the actual joining of the domain? Also the question does not state if the computer account was created in the domain before hand or not, process would be different depending if this is the case or not. it quite possible the offline join was performed -- again this would a completely different scenario when that client machine boots for first time on the AD network. I would think if you can talk intelligently about the different network protocols that may or may not be involved in a Windows Network - be it joining the domain or not. And bringing up the tools/methods that would be used to troubleshoot a client not being able to join the domain would be a great start. Asking questions to the question like has LDAP signing been enforced - what flavor of client (xp, vista, 7) is joining the domain, is it a 2k3 or 2k8 domain all these variables could change the actual process that happens or required different things to be done on the client to allow it to join or prevent it from joining. But again as worded I don't think it even possible to fully answer without a very long discussion. Thanks for the reply... gives MORE thinking... THANKS MAN... like my brain isnt melting down enough as it is!!!!! :) Ok, lets take it that it is a current account, already created in AD, on a S2k8 R2 server, client is using Win7, and using a static LAN! lets leave WiFi for now... PLEASE!!!!!! thats just gonna be more pain! .......! :) Granted... my question is somewhat vague... but that is what i was asked... and didnt take ALL the other possibilities in mind.... i am actually still reeling from the question at ahen... possibly i should have answered with i do not know, but will research it... HENCE me being here... and asking..>! I do not know if LDAP is enforced... and what would the differences be? This is why i asked.... i actually am massivly intreagued... We all pretty much take for granted the logon process, and if u cannot, call an admin..! BUT... i think its an interesting one to try and actually, in as simple a list as possible... without clouding the fact with too many additional facts... just the basic core of requirements and processes... i think i could possibly get back to the guy, and say.... your question is almost unanswerable, without being a network GURU.... BUT..... i think i may have a small crack at it ... as best i could...! Essentially... this que may very well not get me the job, considering there are many other guys applying for the same job, that were more qualified on paper than me, .... BUT... i think this could very well be an interesting excercise....! if not for me personally.... but as a general excercise overall! Dontcha think???? :) Massive appreciation for your suggestions... and seems like you might be the chap to have a chat to regarding this.... mainly coz all i know was self taught... and granted, i may not have had the greatest exposure to actual setups of servers and domains etc.... but i do love it! Again.... lets crack this nut! :) Do I detect someone getting their school work help on Neowin? LOL.... schoolwork.... NO! Random job interview question... YES... BUT.... the interview has ended... and has tweaked my melon..... and besides... what mad school would try fry a kids brain with a que like that????? unless ur name is morpheous! :) lol...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulphy Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Do I detect someone getting their school work help on Neowin? ALSO.... considering i am almost 35.... school is not the option.... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikedOut Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I would start by having in mind how you would be joining the domain, kind of picking a scenario. What I mean is as Budman has said there are a variety of different variables that take the answer in many different directions. Example. I have a new user who has a new PC. I want to create their account by copying from another user and prestage the PC in AD. From here at least you can talk about the processes that happen in a particular scenario. Focusing on a single scenario will help you from getting side tracked and waffling. Also group policies take effect at 2 seperate times when tunring your PC on. Computer policies take effect during start up and user policies at log on. Interesting question with more possible answers than I care to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulphy Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I would start by having in mind how you would be joining the domain, kind of picking a scenario. What I mean is as Budman has said there are a variety of different variables that take the answer in many different directions. Example. I have a new user who has a new PC. I want to create their account by copying from another user and prestage the PC in AD. From here at least you can talk about the processes that happen in a particular scenario. Focusing on a single scenario will help you from getting side tracked and waffling. Also group policies take effect at 2 seperate times when tunring your PC on. Computer policies take effect during start up and user policies at log on. Interesting question with more possible answers than I care to think about. Thanks for the answer... :) Ok.... lets take into consideration : 1. the user already has an AD account.... 2. GP policies are already implemented, and IF necessary, need updating since last login... which in itself, is no big issue... Although, all i am after, is THE BASIC functions that take place... assuming, the user is already in AD... GP's are already in place... all up to date... basically, an already existing domain... and just the basic functions that take place.... we could potentially look into other extenuating circumstances... for now... i would love to know the basic stuff...! kinda like, the basics of when u login to a personal pc.... i am not at this point trying to get into every grim nook and cranny involved... just the basic principles... U guys have been so far a massive help... please accept my thanks thus far...! i am attempting to get a simplified list... and one that can be added on later... .. :| i know it could potentially be daunting.... but!!!!!! eventually.... could be pretty informative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+BudMan MVC Posted January 26, 2012 MVC Share Posted January 26, 2012 Here is why I say your question is too vague and really no way to actually answer it -- without maybe writing a book ;) "windows booting screen to desktop usable state" http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457123.aspx Troubleshooting the Startup Process Take a look at that for starters. Now please do not take this the wrong way, but from your start of what happens - I am already concerned with your understanding of the protocols used. * at windows boot - system requests IP from DHCP * handshake * IP obtained - depends on if reserved in DHCP or random dynamic IP -> logged in Event viewer * Gateway address obtained -> logged in Event viewer * Request for DNS from PDC (i know PDC is not really relevant anymore) -> logged in Event viewer * Handshake * DNS obtained -> IP allowed are you saying that there is a handshake between the dhcp server and the dhcp client before the dhcp server sends an IP to the client? Not sure I would use that term, for starters dhcp is UDP so if your talking a tcp sort of handshake -- does not happen. If you just in generally speaking about dhcp process as a whole - not sure I would state as you did. I guess you could call the complete dhcp process of getting an IP, along with all the other info the dhcp server provides overall a handshake. The dhcp server would hand out the gateway address, if there is one - a gateway address would not be a requirement for joining a domain, unless of course the DC(s) were not located on the clients network segment. But the way you have it laid out - looks like gateway address is gotten how? Something after the dhcp process has completed? With dhcp client would would broadcast dhcpdiscover, the dhcp server that sees this would then send a dhcpoffer -- this offer would contain either the IP that was reserved for that mac address via yes a reservation, or an unleased IP from the dhcp server scope of address that it can use. That is not something I would describe as "random dynamic" -- there is a specific list of IPs the dhcp server can offer, and it will pull the next available unleased IP from that list. This offer would include the gateway, netmask and dns plus a slew of other information that the dhcp server might be setup to provide.. The client would then send a dhcprequest for that offered IP and info - again still broadcasted because the client has not actually gotten the IP yet. Then the dhcp server would send a dhcpack to let the client know he got the IP and this ack would again include all the info like netmask and gateway, dns and other options. Normally this is broadcasted as well - since the client has not actually gotten an IP yet. Now your saying after client gets its IP it requests for dns - what is it requesting?? The dns servers it should use would of been handed to it during the dhcp process. What handshake would be happening here?? DNS is normally sent via UDP, its a request and answer - client would not acknolwedge that it got the data from the server. So not sure how the term handshake is meant here? And then confused about "ip allowed" ?? What IP is allowed? Are you talking about client doing dynamic dns registration - then why do you say request? Normally a dhcp client in windows would register the A record and the dhcp server would register the PTR - I do not believe there is any check on what IP addresses are allowed to be registered. And who can register and or update a record would come down to settings on the server. This portion is very confusing to me how you have it worded and what your trying to say exactly - for starters has the box actually joined the domain already to have permissions to register anything with DNS. When you say handshake do you mean this process in general -- again not sure best term. The client would do a SOA query using its FQDN, and then it would send the update to that server. I do believe this process is sent via UDP unless its too large then TCP would be used - you could write multiple paragraphs on this process alone. Then again has the machine already joined the domain? Because if it has not joined it sure would not have permissions to register or update anything in dns by default that process is locked down. And then depending on the flavor of the OS trying to join, it might not even support dns updates - in which case the dhcp server for the domain could handle the whole process, etc. Again -- please don't take my comments the wrong way. Just trying to point out the detail involved in discussion of your question as worded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulphy Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 @BudMan .... thanks man! Gave me loads to think about now....! Unfortunately that was how the question was worded to me...! back to the drawing board... :) cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikedOut Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 -- without maybe writing a book ;) Budman, if you ever do decide to write a book, point me in its direction!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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