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Damian

os x OS X Mountain Lion Discussion

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i can see that you can now sync accounts via icloud, dear god yes! yes! yes!

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Well Metro isn't slapped but is replacing the old UI which is still a much radical change compared to what Apple has said so far (I am sure there are some under the hood changes which may not be glossy enough for PR). There are a bunch of performance and non-metro UI update in Win8 that I am sure you are aware of.

Frankly, I don't know why Apple is even bothering with building its own IM network :/ just open up to everyone use XMPP (i.e. update iChat). Connect to facebook, twitter, gtalk etc.

Actually in Lion, you can add GTalk, XMPP/jabber already, iChat account is using the old AOL servers, so it's AIM, and not a "own IM network".

What is missing really is just MSN network...

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Apple calls it a "Developer Preview" for a reason...

Don't shoot him lol for simply pointing something out...

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There are a bunch of performance and non-metro UI update in Win8 that I am sure you are aware of.

Not enough to warrant an upgrade from Windows 7 if you don't plan on using Metro on a computer without touch screen, something I can imagine.

Frankly, I don't know why Apple is even bothering with building its own IM network :/ just open up to everyone use XMPP (i.e. update iChat). Connect to facebook, twitter, gtalk etc.

iChat can already do all of those things...

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Clearly you didn't understood what I meant before, I'll try to be more clear this time: At this point there's little new in Windows 8 that's of interest to people who use a desktop or notebook PC without touch screen. I don't see how being able to use the traditional desktop environment is exciting when buying a new version of Windows.

That's simply untrue. There are a lot of changes coming that everyone will benefit from. Seamless USB 3.0 support, better file management operations, ISO handling, fast boot/shutdown, built-in malware protection, new/scalable task manager, more efficient memory management/smaller footprint, Skydrive integration, storage pooling, password management, power saving, ReFS, more robust mobile networking. I could go on, but that's just part of what's already confirmed from Microsoft, and none of those are "touch only" and only a few of them are targeted at mobile users.

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Don't shoot him lol for simply pointing something out...

He was asking a question, I answered it...

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There don't appear to be any UI changes at all, not that I was expecting any. So, if you like the Lion UI as is, you'll probably enjoy Mountain Lion, too.

I can't yet determine if there are any more hi-resolution icons like the cursor files that would confirm the rumors of Retina Displays coming to the iMac models.

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That's simply untrue. There are a lot of changes coming that everyone will benefit from. Seamless USB 3.0 support, better file management operations, ISO handling, fast boot/shutdown, built-in malware protection, new/scalable task manager, more efficient memory management/smaller footprint, Skydrive integration, storage pooling, password management, power saving, ReFS, more robust mobile networking. I could go on, but that's just part of what's already confirmed from Microsoft, and none of those are "touch only" and only a few of them are targeted at mobile users.

Those are all relatively small changes the vast majority of people won't ever notice. People can give you a huge list of under the hood changes and optimizations of OS X Snow Leopard too. That doesn't mean it was a particularly interesting release for the average user. It's simple: If you don't enjoy using Metro Windows 8 most likely isn't worth it.

There don't appear to be any UI changes at all, not that I was expecting any. So, if you like the Lion UI as is, you'll probably enjoy Mountain Lion, too.

I can't yet determine if there are any more hi-resolution icons like the cursor files that would confirm the rumors of Retina Displays coming to the iMac models.

Damn boy! What is it with you and those cursors, do you even use them enlarged? :laugh: Safari 5.2 contains a whole range of "x2" interface elements. Can't recall whether or not they were present in earlier Safari versions as well.

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That's simply untrue. There are a lot of changes coming that everyone will benefit from. Seamless USB 3.0 support, better file management operations, ISO handling, fast boot/shutdown, built-in malware protection, new/scalable task manager, more efficient memory management/smaller footprint, Skydrive integration, storage pooling, password management, power saving, ReFS, more robust mobile networking. I could go on, but that's just part of what's already confirmed from Microsoft, and none of those are "touch only" and only a few of them are targeted at mobile users.

afaik ReFS is server-only...

Too bad, I would have adored Microsoft to set some pace to push Apple into finally adopting ZFS Jesus Christ.

I know they (Oracle and Apple) didn't come to an agreement, but GEEEZ...

While they battle about stupid licensing terms I'm stuck with paranoia about data integrity ffs... :p

Glassed Silver:mac

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Those are all relatively small changes the vast majority of people won't ever notice. People can give you a huge list of under the hood changes and optimizations of OS X Snow Leopard too. That doesn't mean it was a particularly interesting release for the average user. It's simple: If you don't enjoy using Metro Windows 8 most likely isn't worth it.

Damn boy! What is it with you and those cursors, do you even use them enlarged? :laugh: Safari 5.2 contains a whole range of "x2" interface elements. Can't recall whether or not they were present in earlier Safari versions as well.

No, I don't use them enlarged. It's just bothered me that "vectorized cursors" were coming in Lion and yet never really did until .3 update, and even then, not all of them are supported in Safari. It's just an example of the fit and finish issues Apple has been displaying recently.

However, I have noticed that in the Finder, it seems the scroll bars that do appear when scrolling are wider than before, presumably to make them easier to grab with either a mouse or trackpad gesture. But it doesn't appear to occur in Safari.

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However, I have noticed that in the Finder, it seems the scroll bars that do appear when scrolling are wider than before, presumably to make them easier to grab with either a mouse or trackpad gesture. But it doesn't appear to occur in Safari.

Good that they?re trying something, and I hope they deploy them in the entire interface, because on a 27-inch screen at 1080p, it?s tough to grab them. I can?t imagine if I were on native resolution.

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No, I don't use them enlarged. It's just bothered me that "vectorized cursors" were coming in Lion and yet never really did until .3 update, and even then, not all of them are supported in Safari. It's just an example of the fit and finish issues Apple has been displaying recently.

Oh please, OS X Lion is by far the most polished OS X version to date interface-wise and is second to none when looking at the competition. If you're not using the cursors enlarged I honestly don't understand your obsession with them. I can be a real nitpick when it comes to stuff like this, but there comes a point when even I think you're making a huge fuss out of nothing.

Good that they?re trying something, and I hope they deploy them in the entire interface, because on a 27-inch screen at 1080p, it?s tough to grab them. I can?t imagine if I were on native resolution.

Agreed. They're impossibly small and I do use my 27-inch iMac at its native resolution.

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Those are all relatively small changes the vast majority of people won't ever notice. People can give you a vast list of under the hood changes and optimizations of OS X Snow Leopard too. That doesn't mean it was an interesting release for the average user. It's simple: If you don't enjoy using Metro Windows 8 most likely isn't worth it.

Look, I understand you're coming from the Apple camp, but to say most people wouldn't notice Skydrive integration is like saying most people wouldn't notice iCloud. You don't think people would notice better battery life? They wouldn't notice things being faster? To be fair, when I moved to Snow Leopard, I immediately noticed an increase in speed. Most people wouldn't notice their PC boots in a few seconds instead of the minute or more it used to take? Most people won't notice the Windows Marketplace? You're just being unfair here.

And yes, I'm a big fan of Metro. It's obviously the biggest change in Windows 8. I'm really looking forward to it in the future, so I'll most definitely get Windows 8. It's the way forward, but I hope Microsoft pushes for more consistency without compromise. Without Metro, Windows 8 would be more along the lines of an Apple major OS release. With Metro, it's truly substantial.

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Please. OS X Lion is by far the most polished OS X version to date interface-wise. If you're not using them enlarged I honestly don't understand your obsession with them.

And I never said it wasn't. But that doesn't change the fact that OS X still has some interface quirks and inconsistencies, however minor. Some bother me more than others. I don't expect everyone to agree/care.

Ah, figured out that the scroll bars getting wider only occurs if you actually put the cursor over the scrolling area. So it does seem to work in Safari and other apps, as well, but it's a manual action, not something that occurs automatically. I don't think it even really matters unless you prefer to actually use the scroll bars that way.

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I'm still wondering how much longer Apple can milk OSX. I like Lion but they have to be reaching an end to the OSX era right or at least starting to think about OS 11

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I'm still wondering how much longer Apple can milk OSX. I like Lion but they have to be reaching an end to the OSX era right or at least starting to think about OS 11

To achieve what exactly?

A new name?

A new GUI? Why? Apple can introduce the changes slice by slice now already, which they do... It's not too drastic, though. I don't see why they should radically change it.

Incompatibility with old applications or having them run in a "mode"?

Not? Okay, so you don't want drastic kernel changes and stuff around that like APIs...

What is it then?

*circle is now done, lifts pen*

We're at the new name again... There's little more left...

Glassed Silver:mac

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I'm still wondering how much longer Apple can milk OSX. I like Lion but they have to be reaching an end to the OSX era right or at least starting to think about OS 11

If anything, it seems OS X is already going away. Each release since Lion is blurring the line more and more between OS X and iOS.

I honestly don't think there will even be a OS 11 at this point. OS X is no longer just a version number, but a platform, a brand name. Not to mention Chrome and other software doesn't really care much about version numbers, either.

I think touch-based computing and what not is the upcoming paradigm that could perhaps be seen as an "OS 11," though I doubt it will actually carry that name.

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I'm still wondering how much longer Apple can milk OSX. I like Lion but they have to be reaching an end to the OSX era right or at least starting to think about OS 11

What I?m wondering is "what?s coming next?". I?m at a loss for a creative solution to enhance and revolutionize our desktop experiences. It seems to have come to an end. Is this what December 21st is all about ? :p

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I've found Finder is pretty buggy, it won't draw thumbnails most of the time. If I open up the Pictures folder, some load, some don't. And restarting Finder won't fix the issue.

Beyond that, though, it's really not too bad. Contacts and Calendar are working, although iCloud and Safari are broken: it absolutely will not sync/display my bookmarks, which is pretty annoying, because that also means none of my history is saved.

Had this issue too with the bookmarks. I fixed it by going into iCloud system pref. and turning off bookmark sync.

Then Delete the bookmarks that are the default ones in Safari - then go back in and turn it back on.

Worked for me

Hope it helps

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If anything, it seems OS X is already going away. Each release since Lion is blurring the line more and more between OS X and iOS.

I honestly don't think there will even be a OS 11 at this point. OS X is no longer just a version number, but a platform, a brand name. Not to mention Chrome and other software doesn't really care much about version numbers, either.

I think touch-based computing and what not is the upcoming paradigm that could perhaps be seen as an "OS 11," though I doubt it will actually carry that name.

This.

OS X is a BIG brand name... I don't think they'll easily just change it from the pace we're now heading...

My guess is that Apple is already working on post OS X-plans, might consider dropping the OS X name, then again...

I don't know whether they will actually drop that.

I see how they didn't worry a lot about the "Mac" in "Mac OS X" so it's definitely something to consider, but I guess it won't happen just this soon.

A couple of years are still left in "OS X" I guess until they will make the "BIG ANNOUNCEMENT".

Possibily more GUI releated, however I hardly see too many possibilities to improve OS X's GUI.

But that's just me dumbwing, not someone slightly more genius at Apple like Jonny Ive or the actual OS designers who get paid good money to really break their heads over this. :p

What I?m wondering is "what?s coming next?". I?m at a loss for a creative solution to enhance and revolutionize our desktop experiences. It seems to have come to an end. Is this what December 21st is all about ? :p

That's exactly what I'm on.

But I think it's unrealistic it will be this way, so... way to really blow my mind, Apple, with new announcements.

I remember seeing the Panther video back then (that's when I started caring about Macs) and I was thrilled to no end as a Windows user...

I'd like to get that kick in my life again from a GUI... That was just totally awesome and it gave me one of my biggest nerdgasms of my life....

Damn, nerdgasms are awesome... I need a REAL GOOD one again! :p

Glassed Silver:mac

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And I never said it wasn't. But that doesn't change the fact that OS X still has some interface quirks and inconsistencies, however minor. Some bother me more than others. I don't expect everyone to agree/care.

You implied it by using the phrase "It's just an example of the fit and finish issues Apple has been displaying recently."

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I think it's pretty obvious that Apple can change Aqua drastically without making it completely unrecognizable. I mean, compare Aqua in 10.0 to Aqua in 10.8. The basics are still there, yet everything has been greatly refined and cleaned up.

I really don't think OS X will ever go away. In fact, I think that "OS 11" might very well be something like "OS X 11" if we even get that far. It's entirely possible there really will come a time where every Apple computer just runs iOS. Frankly, I hope that doesn't happen, but it could. But it seems increasingly obvious the desktop metaphor is on the way out.

You implied it by using the phrase "It's just an example of the fit and finish issues Apple has been displaying recently."

But they have. As good as the Aqua UI is in Lion, there are still some minor inconsistencies and things that seemingly don't get fixed. Nothing is perfect.

This.

OS X is a BIG brand name... I don't think they'll easily just change it from the pace we're now heading...

My guess is that Apple is already working on post OS X-plans, might consider dropping the OS X name, then again...

I don't know whether they will actually drop that.

I see how they didn't worry a lot about the "Mac" in "Mac OS X" so it's definitely something to consider, but I guess it won't happen just this soon.

A couple of years are still left in "OS X" I guess until they will make the "BIG ANNOUNCEMENT".

Possibily more GUI releated, however I hardly see too many possibilities to improve OS X's GUI.

But that's just me dumbwing, not someone slightly more genius at Apple like Jonny Ive or the actual OS designers who get paid good money to really break their heads over this. :p

That's exactly what I'm on.

But I think it's unrealistic it will be this way, so... way to really blow my mind, Apple, with new announcements.

I remember seeing the Panther video back then (that's when I started caring about Macs) and I was thrilled to no end as a Windows user...

I'd like to get that kick in my life again from a GUI... That was just totally awesome and it gave me one of my biggest nerdgasms of my life....

Damn, nerdgasms are awesome... I need a REAL GOOD one again! :p

Glassed Silver:mac

The other issue is that all that stuff was new back in 2003, but now it's standard everywhere. There are frankly only so many ways information can be displayed, at least in a practical purpose. I think the kinds of things we're seeing in Mountain Lion is what we can continue to expect every year now. Reorganizing apps logically (i.e. taking out unnecessary features in Mail, etc.) and making them work better with touch and cloud computing.

Of course, there are still some half-baked ideas that I think could be greatly improved, like Launchpad. I would hope future OS X releases continue to focus primarily on refining the existing features before adding new ones.

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Look, I understand you're coming from the Apple camp, but to say most people wouldn't notice Skydrive integration is like saying most people wouldn't notice iCloud. You don't think people would notice better battery life? They wouldn't notice things being faster? To be fair, when I moved to Snow Leopard, I immediately noticed an increase in speed. Most people wouldn't notice their PC boots in a few seconds instead of the minute or more it used to take? Most people won't notice the Windows Marketplace? You're just being unfair here.

Look, you really need to stop acting as if Apple pays my rent. I gain nothing by protecting them blindly and make Microsoft look bad in the process. Must be hard to understand for a Windows fan like yourself, but it's true. Anyway, here's the deal: I know a fair bunch of people who dismissed the iCloud window the first time they started up OS X Lion and haven't looked at it since. As such it isn't unreasonable to expect the same thing can happen with Skydrive integration. Improved battery is nice and all but these things you summarize just aren't worth paying the price for if it turns out Windows 8 costs about the same as previous versions did. Most end-users concerned Windows 8 revolves around Metro, if you don't like it there's isn't much reason to upgrade. That's a given.

Without Metro, Windows 8 would be more along the lines of an Apple major OS release. With Metro, it's truly substantial.

See that's just the Windows fanboy in you talking? Don't worry though, I won't take it seriously.

But they have. As good as the Aqua UI is in Lion, there are still some minor inconsistencies and things that seemingly don't get fixed. Nothing is perfect.

The usage of the word "recently" implies Apple used to do things better in the recent past which really isn't the case.

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In case you were curious, the Notes app icon doesn't actually appear to have any discernible text on it:

post-119000-0-87043400-1329447553.png

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Had this issue too with the bookmarks. I fixed it by going into iCloud system pref. and turning off bookmark sync.

Then Delete the bookmarks that are the default ones in Safari - then go back in and turn it back on.

Worked for me

Hope it helps

Thanks a lot, this did work for me. My bookmarks are back.

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