Obama: 'If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon'


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shakey

If it was "premeditated" he wouldn't have waited for the guy to be on top of him, breaking his nose etc. He'd have shot him while he was approaching, if not sooner.

You seem to want to put that the "kid attacked him" as fact, based off of no real evidence.... Even though you have told others not to do that. It was premeditated. He brought the gun with him, looking for trouble. Doesn't matter if trouble happened. He expected it, went in prepared for trouble that he baited the kid into ( if the kid even attacked him ). That isn't self defense, that is baiting someone to attack you so that you can use your weapon... which is premeditated.

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matt4pack

Yeah, instead he just stalked him, chased him down, called him a ****ing coon on the 911 call. Said "These a**holes always get away".

He never called him a coon. He also didn't know he was black at first because the 911 operator asked him. That was reported by the media back when he was still a white guy.

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Cute James
He never called him a coon.

The recording would suggest otherwise.

If not 'coon', what other word did he use?

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mudslag

He never called him a coon. He also didn't know he was black at first because the 911 operator asked him. That was reported by the media back when he was still a white guy.

911 dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.

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mrchetsteadman

I wanna be like mudslag when I grow up lol

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mudslag

I nothing witty to say, sorry.

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nominak

He never called him a coon. He also didn't know he was black at first because the 911 operator asked him. That was reported by the media back when he was still a white guy.

This video would say otherwise.

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Skin
When you've got zimmerman on tape saying he's going to follow martin, and the police tell him not to, and you hear zimmerman spout racist remarks such as "these a-holes always get away".. or "f***ing coons". I'd say it's pretty easy to tell what happened and why.

..and this folks is the reason we have prisons filled with folks that serve decades, only to be let out once the real facts are known and appealed.

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mudslag

..and this folks is the reason we have prisons filled with folks that serve decades, only to be let out once the real facts are known and appealed.

Wrong, it's not the court of public opinion that sends people to jail.

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rajputwarrior

Wrong, it's not the court of public opinion that sends people to jail.

or the dumbest drug laws in the history of the world. pretty sure that's one of the biggest reasons american prisons are beyond full.

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matt4pack

In the 911 transcripts they bleeped out "*******s" and it was assumed that it was a racial epithet. On the call, though, we can here when he guesses as to the guy's race, without any slurs, and when he confirms the race. Again, without any slurs.

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nominak

In the 911 transcripts they bleeped out "*******s" and it was assumed that it was a racial epithet. On the call, though, we can here when he guesses as to the guy's race, without any slurs, and when he confirms the race. Again, without any slurs.

I don't care about transcripts. I can listen to the audio myself, just fine. He said "****ing coons"

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rajputwarrior

In the 911 transcripts they bleeped out "*******s" and it was assumed that it was a racial epithet. On the call, though, we can here when he guesses as to the guy's race, without any slurs, and when he confirms the race. Again, without any slurs.

what are you listening to exactly? he said the word coons. it was clear as day... CNN and anderson cooper had that on blast last night.

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rajputwarrior

Also just staying, stand your ground is the dumbest ****ing law i think i have ever heard of, but it's from america so i'm not that shocked...

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mudslag

In the 911 transcripts they bleeped out "*******s" and it was assumed that it was a racial epithet. On the call, though, we can here when he guesses as to the guy's race, without any slurs, and when he confirms the race. Again, without any slurs.

The transcript and the audio both confirm that Zimmerman believes he is watching a young black person, no guessing at all. The slur can be heard at a different time point then when being asked about the race. You dont hear it, thats on you, but most others hear the slur.

Here is the transcript itself, again no guessing going on.

http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/george-zimmerman-s-911-call-transcribed

Zimmerman:

We?ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there?s a real suspicious guy. It?s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he?s up to no good or he?s on drugs or something. It?s raining and he?s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.

911 dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He?s here now ? he?s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher:

He?s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.

Zimmerman:

Now he?s staring at me. [00:48]

911 dispatcher:

OK, you said that?s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:

That?s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher:

He?s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he?s coming toward me. He?s got his hands in his waist band.

And he?s a black male.[1:03]

911 dispatcher:

How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman:

He?s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.

911 dispatcher:

Late teens?

Zimmerman:

Uh, huh.

Something?s wrong with him. Yep, he?s coming to check me out.

He?s got something in his hands. I don?t know what his deal is. [01:20]

911 dispatcher:

Let me know if he does anything, OK?

Zimmerman:

OK.

911 dispatcher:

We?ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman:

OK.

These *******s. They always get away.

When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]

911 dispatcher:

OK, so it?s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:

Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don?t turn and make a left.

He?s running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher:

He?s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

911 dispatcher:

OK, which entrance is that he?s headed towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance.

[it sounds like Zimmerman says under his breath, ?F-ing coons? at 2:22]

NOTE:

911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don?t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

Zimmerman:

George. He ran.

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, what?s your last name?

Zimmerman:

Zimmerman.

911 dispatcher:

What?s the phone number you?re calling from?

Zimmerman:

407-435-2400

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman:

Yeah.

911 dispatcher:

Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman:

Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you?ll see my truck. [3:10]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman:

Um, I don?t know. It?s a cut-through so I don?t know the address. [3:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK, do you live in the area?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, yeah, I live here.

911 dispatcher:

OK, what?s your apartment number?

Zimmerman:

It?s a home. It?s 1950 ? oh, crap, I don?t want to give it out ? I don?t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]

911 dispatcher:

OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:

Yeah, that?s fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, I?ll let them know you?ll meet them at ?

Zimmerman:

Could you have them call me and I?ll tell them where I?m at? [3:49]

911 dispatcher:

OK, that?s no problem.

Zimmerman:

My number ? you?ve got it?

911 dispatcher:

Yeah, I?ve got it. 435-2400?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, you got it.

911 dispatcher:

OK, no problem. I?ll let them know to call you when they?re in the area. [4:02]

Zimmerman:

Thanks.

911 dispatcher:

You?re welcome.

Call ends 4:07

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libertas83

If it was "premeditated" he wouldn't have waited for the guy to be on top of him, breaking his nose etc. He'd have shot him while he was approaching, if not sooner.E

Exactly. Premediation means he planned to kill and set out to kill. The most you could charge him with his manslaughter or murder in the 2nd degree.

Having a weapon does not mean you planned to use it nor does it mean you had an intent to kill. Using a weapon does not mean that either as weapons are both for offense and defense and the context of a case will help determine intent. It would be very hard to prove anything beyond manslaughter charge.

Now if he had an altercation with the kid previously, just bought a gun, and then all of this happened, you could prove premediatation.

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DocM

It's also notable, regardless of the epithets, that a considerable period of time and much conversation occurred between the dispatcher telling Zimmerman to cease pursuit, his saying "OK" and the end of his conversation with the dispatcher.

Also, ant one point Zimmerman describes the kid approaching him. It's therefore not unreasonable to infer the kid approached him again and that's when the final confrontation took place ending in Zimmerman being beaten up and shooting. That's at least as reasonable as much of the stuff posted here.

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mudslag

It's also reasonable to think the kid felt threatened after being stalked and felt his only way out was through Zimmerman.

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DocM

There are 360 degrees on the compass and many exits out of the area other than the 1? that takes him through Zimmerman.

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rajputwarrior

i know right? cause getting a bag a skittles throw on your would suck so hard... image what would happen if you launched his ice tea at him too?!?!?! the horrors!

oh i forgot, he had a hoody on too, and being a coloured person with a hoody in america is bad!

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mudslag

There are 360 degrees on the compass and many exits out of the area other than the 1? that takes him through Zimmerman.

Like you stated all the facts arent known, for all we know there was something blocking his other way or it could have been that Martin felt that this guy kept following him that he felt that any direction would still result with Zimmerman in his way. According to the girlfriend her conversation ended up like this.

?He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on,? she said. ?He said he lost the man. I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.?

?Trayvon said, ?What, are you following me for.? And the man said, ?What are you doing here.? Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn?t answer the phone.?

Iv personally been in multiple situations where I was against someone else, in an open area and still felt like there was no place for me to go. So I have a clear understanding that feeling of still feeling trapped no matter the local environment Im standing in. You Doc being one of the older members and we all know how much you like to talk about your life experiences, Im sure you have had your share of fights then. If you have then you know things don't always go as easy as it seems after the fact. Many people will go back over things that could have gone differently, I could have done this, I could have done that but in the heat of the moment you don't always see the other options that would normally be very clear. Being the outside observers as we are, we have the luxury to be able to sit back from a far and say this, that or the other could have been done. In the heat of the moment they often don't offer the clearest picture to our over all situations.

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shakey

http://www.nononsens...ethalforce.html

"There is literally nothing more dangerous to you and your family than *not* understanding what is meant by "immediate" or "imminent" (depending on which term your state uses). This idea cuts through *all* emotions, fears, thoughts and suspicions and defines when you are - in the eyes of the law - justified to use lethal force.

If he isn't trying to kill you right now, you aren't justified to use lethal force.

It doesn't matter if he is standing there screaming and threatening to kill you, or if has said that he is going to come back and get you or -- in many states -- has just pointed a gun at you, demanded your wallet and is now running away -- those are not considered "immediate threat of death or grave bodily injury." Because he isn't trying to kill you at that exact moment."

" Putting that in plain English, if he punches you, you can't pull a knife and carve him and claim it was 'self-defense.' You have have not defended your body from the immediate threat of death or grave bodily injury, you've used a weapon to win a fight. You especially need to be careful about using a so-called 'tactical knife'). The reason for this is he was not offering you the same level of physical threat as you responded with. By pulling your weapon when there is no real danger to your person, you've escalated the situation. And that makes you the aggressor."

No wonder some of you OK police brutality. You are , in essence, brutal in the nature of your thinking towards the treatment of others....

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DocM

No wonder some of you OK police brutality. You are , in essence, brutal in the nature of your thinking towards the treatment of others....

No, we're just pragmatists. There are people that harm others and citizens need a way to effectively protect themsrlves during the critical 15 minutes before authorities can respond - that is if there is time to call them. A big if when it comes to street crime at night.

The so-called non-lethal methods are not, nor are they consistantly effective or useful against group attacks, so we carry firearms.

That stuff you posted is not the universal standard, especially here in Michigan and other ststes where one has the right to use deadly force -

? when one is suddenly, fiercely, and violently attacked;

? when one believes the attacker is about to use a deadly weapon; (sidewalk?) and

? when a person is assaulted in their own dwelling.

There is no duty to retreat, not that you can with some kid sitting on your chest pounding your head into a sidewalk, and all that's required is that the attacked person believe they arre in danger of great harm.

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nominak

This guy is such a god damn liar its not even funny... XD

People proudly call themselves "coonasses"? HAHHAHAHAHHAHA ... so it's gone from "he's not a racist, or it could be interpreted as goon." to.. " people proudly call themselves coonasses"....

These racist summa mabitches...

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Memphis

This guy is such a god damn liar its not even funny... XD

People proudly call themselves "coonasses"? HAHHAHAHAHHAHA ... so it's gone from "he's not a racist, or it could be interpreted as goon." to.. " people proudly call themselves coonasses"....

These racist summa mabitches...

ng.

This guy is such a god damn liar its not even funny... XD

People proudly call themselves "coonasses"? HAHHAHAHAHHAHA ... so it's gone from "he's not a racist, or it could be interpreted as goon." to.. " people proudly call themselves coonasses"....

These racist summa mabitches...

Even a member of the KKK would have a right to self defense. This is a red herring if he did indeed retreat first.

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