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Obama: 'If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon'

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Memphis    1,213

Oh ok, well that's not ok.

And this is what vigilante justice gets you, let the justice system work and if you feel it has failed after that then that is a different story.

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DocM    16,881

And this is what vigilante justice gets you, let the justice system work......

Bingo, though I fear they will prosecute solely to keep the race politics people and NBPP off the streets - regardless of the facts.

I also find it quite ironic that so many people accuse Zimmerman of being a vigilante and profiling while practicing digital vigilantism and profiling themselves, both here and across the interwebs.

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Astra.Xtreme    2,967

Trayvon and I post images of us giving the middle finger and we're "not respectable" people. Yet you don't even bat an eyelash to bush and ask why bush was brought into it? Do you not see the hypocrisy.

What death-threats have the black panthers issued?

As far as I know the $10,000 bounty is for the capture of Zimmerman. Meaning he is to remain alive. If that's illegal, then they'll get their day in the justice system.

Hmm... funny you keep looking past the physical words on his Twitter feed and other online profiles... There's plenty of proof he's wasn't the lovable angel that you seem to swear he was. His criminal record is also more than enough proof.

Also, what do you think the black panthers are looking to accomplish with this bounty? Do they want him captured so they can fan him and feed him grapes? Um, no. Even a monkey could realize they want to capture him so they can torture him and then leave his severed head in his parent's mailbox.

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mudslag    10,758

Hmm... funny you keep looking past the physical words on his Twitter feed and other online profiles... There's plenty of proof he's wasn't the lovable angel that you seem to swear he was. His criminal record is also more than enough proof.

Again no, a few phrases here and there are not proof of anything. You dont even have a real context to what he was tweeting about. Everyone says stupid things at some point in their life and to judge someone on a single phrase with limited context behind it is just being retarded.

On top of that, none of his tweets have ANYTHING to do with the shooting at hand. In no way do they reflect anything to do with the situation that went down. As for a "criminal record", being suspended isnt part of a criminal record. Hell he may very well have been a troubled kid who wasn't an angel but again none of that has to do with Zimmerman chasing him down.

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DocM    16,881

Again no, a few phrases here and there are not proof of anything. ....

They're enough to convict you of a crime in many cases so yes, words like actions can have consequences.

....As for a "criminal record", being suspended isnt part of a criminal record.

His possessing a bag with a screwdriver, 12 pieces of jewelry and a watch in school doesn't bother you? I'd say the school was negligent in not pursuing it because here they'd be all over it.

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nominak    982

Hmm... funny you keep looking past the physical words on his Twitter feed and other online profiles... There's plenty of proof he's wasn't the lovable angel that you seem to swear he was. His criminal record is also more than enough proof.

Also, what do you think the black panthers are looking to accomplish with this bounty? Do they want him captured so they can fan him and feed him grapes? Um, no. Even a monkey could realize they want to capture him so they can torture him and then leave his severed head in his parent's mailbox.

LOL. George Zimmermans criminal record is worse than anything Trayvon has done...

I don't really give a crap what the black panthers are looking to accomplish, clearly they want him dead. Which isn't the route to go.

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mudslag    10,758

They're enough to convict you of a crime in many cases so yes, words like actions can have consequences.

Context, it's all about context. So no in most cases it's entirely meaningless and legal to say.

His possessing a bag with a screwdriver, 12 pieces of jewelry and a watch in school doesn't bother you? I'd say the school was negligent in not pursuing it because here they'd be all over it.

Concerned vs having a criminal record are still two different things. Anything can be called a "breaking an entering" tool these days and the jewelry didnt match up to anything reported missing. So again, he has no criminal record.

And as pointed out a few times, Zimmerman, while maybe not being charged has been arrested a number of times on violent related issues. Far worse then some kid posting the middle finger and finding a screw driver/jewelry in a back pack.

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nominak    982

They're enough to convict you of a crime in many cases so yes, words like actions can have consequences.

His possessing a bag with a screwdriver, 12 pieces of jewelry and a watch in school doesn't bother you? I'd say the school was negligent in not pursuing it because here they'd be all over it.

Wait so.. A screwdriver and a watch ... are crimes?

They couldn't even link the jewelry to any thefts...

Nice straw grabbing though.

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nominak    982

wrong trayvon vs the right one

1332896522964.jpg

But look at him! that thug! that gangsta!

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Thino    2

Are there seriously people in this thread that believe looking gangsta, tweeting violent stuff and having stuff like jewelry and screwdrivers at school are all criminal offense that must be judged by gunshots?

At most it made the dude suspicious, the police could have taken care of that if they really did suspect that boy of the crimes that were committed around.

Has it been proven that it was for self defense yet anyway?

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+warwagon    13,950

What a gangster!

av6XMl.jpg

Uh oh! I guess i'm a gangster too!

You aren't a gangster but I will call you Peter Jackson or Kevin Smith!

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Memphis    1,213

Are there seriously people in this thread that believe looking gangsta, tweeting violent stuff and having stuff like jewelry and screwdrivers at school are all criminal offense that must be judged by gunshots?

At most it made the dude suspicious, the police could have taken care of that if they really did suspect that boy of the crimes that were committed around.

Has it been proven that it was for self defense yet anyway?

It hasn't been proven or disproving yet. I will make my judgment on if Zimmerman proven to have been retreating to his SUV or not as that will either make or break his self defense argument.

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seta-san    1,437

Are there seriously people in this thread that believe looking gangsta, tweeting violent stuff and having stuff like jewelry and screwdrivers at school are all criminal offense that must be judged by gunshots?

At most it made the dude suspicious, the police could have taken care of that if they really did suspect that boy of the crimes that were committed around.

Has it been proven that it was for self defense yet anyway?

no one is saying that. We are saying that the media is selectively using images to make one person look bad and the other good.

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DocM    16,881

no one is saying that. We are saying that the media is selectively using images to make one person look bad and the other good.

A great example of medis manipulation is the number NBC News (and others) have done with Zimmerman reporting that Tayvon was black, which many here and across the interweb have spun as a sign he was racial profiling.

Unless you read the FULL 911 transcript it's not clear that they edited out the 911 dispatcher asking him a specific question as to if the person Zimmerman was observing was White, Black, or Hispanic - which puts a whole different context on what he said.

Zimmerman:?We?ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there?s a real suspicious guy. It?s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he?s up to no good or he?s on drugs or something. It?s raining and he?s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

(NBC cuts here)

911 dispatcher:?OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

(NBC starts again here)

Zimmerman:?He looks black.

>

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libertas83    154

See here is the problem. Alot of people here are painting Zimmerman as the white devil and Travyon is the saint innocent black kid. The real truth is that neither of them are true. There is no evidence that points to either one of them being innocent or evil. Flawed and misguided by both, yes.

Zimmerman had no intent to voilence and no intent to kill. Hence, why he called 911 as the very first thing. You don't do that when you are going to gun down some one you think of some racist slur. He thought he was doing the right thing.

I think we can all agree he made a grave mistake in trying to follow the kid, but hey, I got news for you, if you think something is suspicious you need to have a pair and follow up on it. In this case, the kid had nothing, but it could have easily been something else entirely. Police won't always help you. Just ask the woman who was stabbed multiple times by her ex-husband in front of the cop who just arrived at the scene but was too busy messing around in his car to stop it.

The reality is this is a tragic mistake on both their parts, but everyone here wants to demonize Zimmerman and when people are trying to set some balance (not defend) it's that we are demonizing the victim.

I have reasonable doubt because I don't judge people and don't know what happened. I am thinking of myself in this situation and how I would handle it and it's not hard to imagine some kid coming up to me and starting a fight and having no other choice. Does that mean Zimmeran is innocent, no, it just means that I am thinking of both sides and putting myself in their place. I have been in a threatening situation before and actually got lectured by the cop for trying to defend myself when had I not tried something I could have died. It's not that clear cut people!

So calling someone a coon... isn't targeting race?

No, it's not! Calling names is not the same thing. Had he been a red haired kid and he said, "f*** gingers", would anyone care? Sorry but people call people names all the time with no intent of violence. Move along.

He clearly did target him for his race. He told the police the person was black. He said "These a-holes always get away", then he mutters "effing coon".

Most of the conversation was from him being asked to describe the kid. I believe he even said he thought he was black but wasn't surre. He did not call police and state it until asked.

Also, the video of Zimmerman in the police station clearly shows that Zimmerman was never attacked.

Funny, someone posted the police reports earlier in the thread.... At least 2 officers stated he had blood on his face and was treated on-site by medical team..... Oh, but they were probably pigs...excuse me... white racist cops or black traitor racist cops. Can't trust them right!

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Thino    2

no one is saying that. We are saying that the media is selectively using images to make one person look bad and the other good.

The media has always done that, and I do admit that, sadly, it does have an effect on public opinion.

But I think that in this context, it doesn't matter yet because of the lack of information we have on what really happened, people only assume from the tidbits of information they get from the media, their looks and their past.

For now it's a murder, whether it's a murder of an innocent black guy or the murder of a drug dealer gangster, it's still a murder.

We'll see if it's by self defense or not.

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mudslag    10,758

No, it's not! Calling names is not the same thing. Had he been a red haired kid and he said, "f*** gingers", would anyone care? Sorry but people call people names all the time with no intent of violence. Move along.

Actually yes it is, so much in fact that if it's proven true that he said it, it changes the dynamic of how he could be prosecuted. Every lawyer and prosecutor that's talked about this in the media all agree, that it has meaning. I think their view is more solid then your opinion of what is or isn't a racial slur.

Most of the conversation was from him being asked to describe the kid. I believe he even said he thought he was black but wasn't surre. He did not call police and state it until asked.

Here is all of what was said.

Zimmerman:

We?ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there?s a real suspicious guy. It?s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he?s up to no good or he?s on drugs or something. It?s raining and he?s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.

911 dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He?s here now ? he?s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher:

He?s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.

Zimmerman:

Now he?s staring at me. [00:48]

911 dispatcher:

OK, you said that?s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:

That?s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher:

He?s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he?s coming toward me. He?s got his hands in his waist band.

And he?s a black male.[1:03]

911 dispatcher:

How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman:

He?s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.

911 dispatcher:

Late teens?

Zimmerman:

Uh, huh.

Something?s wrong with him. Yep, he?s coming to check me out.

He?s got something in his hands. I don?t know what his deal is. [01:20]

911 dispatcher:

Let me know if he does anything, OK?

Zimmerman:

OK.

911 dispatcher:

We?ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman:

OK.

These *******s. They always get away.

When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]

911 dispatcher:

OK, so it?s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:

Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don?t turn and make a left.

He?s running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher:

He?s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

911 dispatcher:

OK, which entrance is that he?s headed towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance.

[it sounds like Zimmerman says under his breath, ?F-ing coons? at 2:22]

NOTE:

911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don?t need you to do that.[2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

Zimmerman:

George. He ran.

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, what?s your last name?

Zimmerman:

Zimmerman.

911 dispatcher:

What?s the phone number you?re calling from?

Zimmerman:

407-435-2400

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman:

Yeah.

911 dispatcher:

Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman:

Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you?ll see my truck. [3:10]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman:

Um, I don?t know. It?s a cut-through so I don?t know the address. [3:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK, do you live in the area?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, yeah, I live here.

911 dispatcher:

OK, what?s your apartment number?

Zimmerman:

It?s a home. It?s 1950 ? oh, crap, I don?t want to give it out ? I don?t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]

911 dispatcher:

OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:

Yeah, that?s fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, I?ll let them know you?ll meet them at ?

Zimmerman:

Could you have them call me and I?ll tell them where I?m at? [3:49]

911 dispatcher:

OK, that?s no problem.

Zimmerman:

My number ? you?ve got it?

911 dispatcher:

Yeah, I?ve got it. 435-2400?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, you got it.

911 dispatcher:

OK, no problem. I?ll let them know to call you when they?re in the area. [4:02]

Zimmerman:

Thanks.

911 dispatcher:

You?re welcome.

Call ends 4:07

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Memphis    1,213

Mudslag is right, it'll make a huge difference when it goes to court. however, I am still convinced the motivation for a crime should not affect the sentencing. Again, if it can be proven Zimmerman was retreating instead of confronting martin, then all of this is moot. He could of been wearing full KKK garb and as long as he was retreating, martin would be at fault.

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DocM    16,881

So much for the "where's the head wound?" question. Daily Caller did an image enhancement of a frame from the police video and found it - and it's pretty big. This also makes it clear that he was cleaned up (squad as I suggested?) as this sucker would bleed.

I'm now going to give it a shot with some of my (high end) software and see what else is hiding in those frames.

Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

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ylcard    142

Again no, a few phrases here and there are not proof of anything. You dont even have a real context to what he was tweeting about. Everyone says stupid things at some point in their life and to judge someone on a single phrase with limited context behind it is just being retarded.

On top of that, none of his tweets have ANYTHING to do with the shooting at hand. In no way do they reflect anything to do with the situation that went down. As for a "criminal record", being suspended isnt part of a criminal record. Hell he may very well have been a troubled kid who wasn't an angel but again none of that has to do with Zimmerman chasing him down.

Yet, Zimmerman's "racial slur" is enough to brand him as a racist, I see.

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ylcard    142

Wait so.. A screwdriver and a watch ... are crimes?

They couldn't even link the jewelry to any thefts...

Nice straw grabbing though.

You neglected to mention the jewelry, talk about "grabbing" of straws :)

Not that it should be of any relevance to the case, I don't see how Zimmerman's previous arrests have anything to do with this case, or Trayvon's less than pious way of life.

You're both running a smear campaign against Zimmerman/Trayvon. You're so beyond lost, this thread has lost its meaning...

Can you go back to the actual case, like who actually attacked who, and who had the right to defend himself, instead of trying to prove a meaningless feat of life, such as previous (irrelevant) arrests and the attire of a young black man in family photographs.

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DocM    16,881

yeah keep looking for stuff (from thin iar) that says this kid is bad, and wasnt the victim. keep on goin and then say you're not racist :)

Searching for facts others choose to ignore isn't racist, it's pragmatic and fair. Let the chips fall where they may, even if they aren't politically correct. Especially if they aren't politically correct.

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ylcard    142

lol you're grabbing at **** to fit your ignorant opinion of black people. everyone knows this.

let it go.

So many fallacies in one, short sentence.

I'm impressed.

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Astra.Xtreme    2,967

meh only fallacy posted here is your off topic comment.

If you've been following these discussions, and the crap DocM has been posting, lived in reality and had common sense you'd most likely agree.

Next docM is gonna say Magical BLACK fairies demons were involved.

The fact that you automatically label him as a racist when he doesn't agree with you just shows how much of an ignorant fool you are. Get over yourself. It's people like you that keep racism alive since you jump at every opportunity to label somebody as such.

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shakey    1,127

Fact - Zimmerman was armed.

Fact - Zimmerman ignored orders from 911 and rules/regulations of NHW to not engage.

Fact - Zimmerman placed himself in danger by confronting the kid

Fact - Trayvon was unarmed

Fact - You do not have the right to use your gun against an unarmed person, especially when you have caused the confrontation.

Fact - Zimmerman followed the kid

If Zimmerman approached the kid, the kid actually had the right to feel threatened and protect himself. Zimmerman is the cause of every action that happened that night. Manslaughter will be the minimum charge.

Race doesn't matter. How one was dressed doesn't matter. It was all due to the actions Zimmerman decided to perform that lead to this outcome. He was in the wrong in every way.

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