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Javik    3,961

Lol. Appeals to authority do not a compelling case make. "X converted therefore it's true" isn't evidence, it's an appeal to authority. Self evident truths will have tangible supporting evidence, you don't have to just take them on faith. The only reason faith is espoused to much as a virtue is because believers don't have anything tangible and rational to go on. I'm not close minded, it just takes a bit more than blind faith and appeals to authority to make a case to me.

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+hedleigh    126

Your skepticism is clouding your judgement.

And your "faith" is clouding yours.

But that's okay, being religious gives one the right to tell everyone else they are sinners and wrong about everything.

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Javik    3,961

The bible says "Judge not lest ye be judged" but the actions of a lot of Christians lead me to the conclusion that it might actually say "Judge and then cry oppression when they judge you".

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*RedBull*    608

By Todd Starnes

A North Carolina community is embroiled in controversy after a school ordered a six-year-old girl to remove the word ?God? from a poem that she was supposed to read during a Veteran?s Day ceremony.

The girl is a first-grader at West Marion Elementary School. She was supposed to read the poem during a school assembly marking Veteran?s Day. The poem honored her two grandfathers who had served during the Vietnam War.

?He prayed to God for peace, he prayed to God for strength,? the poem read.

A parent reportedly found out about the poem and expressed concern about mentioning the word God during a school event. The parent did not want the Almighty?s name mentioned anywhere in the program, according to one account.

?We wanted to make sure we were upholding the school district?s responsibility of separation of church and state from the Establishment Clause,? Supt. Gerri Martin told the McDowell News.

Martin told the newspaper she made the decision in consultation with the school?s principal and vice principal.

?We jointly decided that we must err on the side of caution to prevent crossing the line on the Establishment Clause of the Constitution,? Kirkpatrick told the newspaper. ?As a principal of a public school, I must put aside my personal religious beliefs and follow the law ? which upholds that we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion, but that we, as public schools, cannot endorse one single religion over another.?

Fox News contacted the parents of the child but they declined to comment on the controversy.

The incident has sparked widespread concern across this western North Carolina community ? called by many the buckle of the Bible Belt.

?I?m reserving my opinion at this point ? but I?m very concerned that the young lady?s First Amendment rights have been broken,? said Scott Hagaman, senior pastor of Marion?s First Baptist Church.

He told Fox News that ministers across the community are alarmed what happened and many are asking questions.

?It?s saturated the community,? he said. ?I?m quite sure it will be handled appropriately and fairly but right now there is a lot of concern that this child was not treated appropriately.?

The issue is expected to be addressed by local residents at next week?s school board meeting.

?I am outraged that a school would deny a six year old child her First Amendment rights ? especially during an assembly to honor our nation?s veterans,? Trudy Pascoe told Fox News. ?It is unacceptable for schools to continue to deny students rights because of their Christian viewpoint.?

Chris Greene, who happens to be employed by the school district, spoke to board members earlier this week.

?My question is this, when do the rights of one outweigh the rights of another,? he asked in remarks covered by the local newspaper. ?I believe that this little girl?s rights were violated and that those who worked so hard to prepare this program should receive an apology.?

Pastor Hagaman said it?s no surprise that the First Amendment debate has reached their small town.

?I don?t think there?s anywhere in the country where you can hide from these issues ? with the culture changing so quickly,? he said.

www.foxnews.com <-- for those can't sleep at night otherwise

I totally agree with a number of the posts that follow this news post. The little girl's first amendment and freedom of religion rights had been violated. The school was not endorsing religion, the little girl was expressing her thoughts about her grandfather. PERIOD

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Nick H.    7,970

FFS...

A North Carolina community is embroiled in controversy after a school ordered a six-year-old girl to remove the word ?God? from a poem that she was supposed to read during a Veteran?s Day ceremony.

Remind me again, how does America's pledge of allegiance go? One Nation under who? They need to make up their mind, allow the use of the word "god" or don't. But make up your mind and move on, it's a word.

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pes2013    85

****ing idiots.....

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-Himanshu-    122

These are the people giving atheists a bad name. It's just a poem. If she wants to believe, let her.

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Shane Nokes    739

FFS...

Remind me again, how does America's pledge of allegiance go? One Nation under who? They need to make up their mind, allow the use of the word "god" or don't. But make up your mind and move on, it's a word.

That just goes to show that those teaching the youth are often as ignorant as the wards they teach.

How do you not allow the mention of God in a students presentation, but then force it during the Pledge of Allegiance? Simple...the PoA has become such a part of their daily routine that they forget the mention of God.

If you mentioned that to the staff they would be in shock that they had forgotten about it.

It's hypocrist at its finest...and a stunning showing of ignorance.

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Open Minded    939

Atheists give atheists a bad name...

As do Christians, Muslims, Jews...

I believe in God, but most of the crap I hear coming from people (that are supposed to set an example) is garbage.

One thing I've learned in my 32 years on this earth is that almost everyone is a hypocrite. It sucks, but that's the way it be.

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rfirth    727

Nothing wrong with what the school did. They are just erring on the side of caution. I think they are being overly cautious, but they have to. A parent complained.

As a principal of a public school, I must put aside my personal religious beliefs and follow the law ? which upholds that we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion, but that we, as public schools, cannot endorse one single religion over another.

Now this wrong:

It is unacceptable for schools to continue to deny students rights because of their Christian viewpoint.

The school is not denying students rights because of their Christian viewpoint. This has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. This isn't a case of Christians being persecuted.

Now, imagine if this girl was a muslim... and she wanted to thank Allah for saving her grandfather in WWII. You could bet these same people would be outraged. It never fails. It's also not uncommon for people and politicians to spend public money on religious institutions, then freak out when they realize it also benefits muslims... like school vouchers... perfectly fine when going to Christian schools, but evil indoctrination when Islamic schools apply to the same program.

Me? I don't care either way. Let the girl speak, or stop her from speaking. It's an interesting case where multiple constitutional amendments overlap and contradict. But she still has her freedom of speech... that really isn't infringed upon... she just can't use this venue because this venue is constitutionally protected.

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*RedBull*    608

You're just wrong about the school. They should have used better judgement. I sincerely hope that family sues. The girl's rights were violated.

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Shane Nokes    739

Nothing wrong with what the school did. They are just erring on the side of caution. I think they are being overly cautious, but they have to. A parent complained.

Now this wrong:

The school is not denying students rights because of their Christian viewpoint. This has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. This isn't a case of Christians being persecuted.

Now, imagine if this girl was a muslim... and she wanted to thank Allah for saving her grandfather in WWII. You could bet these same people would be outraged. It never fails. It's also not uncommon for people and politicians to spend public money on religious institutions, then freak out when they realize it also benefits muslims... like school vouchers... perfectly fine when going to Christian schools, but evil indoctrination when Islamic schools apply to the same program.

Me? I don't care either way. Let the girl speak, or stop her from speaking. It's an interesting case where multiple constitutional amendments overlap and contradict. But she still has her freedom of speech... that really isn't infringed upon... she just can't use this venue because this venue is constitutionally protected.

Then as stated earlier the PoA shouldn't be allowed in schools. You cannot force a student to proclaim 'one nation under God' at every school assembly (and since this was a school assembly it was likely said minutes before her presentation) and then later tell them not to say God as part of a presentation.

She wasn't proselytizing or endorsing a religion. At that point you might as well strip out all history and mythology lessons as well since those make mention of God or Gods or various other major and minor Deities.

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TPreston    5,384

Not a freedom of speech issue, If the school picks me to design a mural and I paint god hates fags or belive in jesus or burn in in hell that's a taxpayer funded school showing preference toward a particular religion :rolleyes:

So nice try christians but using a little girl or cheerleaders as a proxy wont work :rolleyes:

You're just wrong about the school. They should have used better judgement. I sincerely hope that family sues. The girl's rights were violated.

Difference between us is id be saying the same thing if it were a different religion :yes:

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Shane Nokes    739

Not a freedom of speech issue, If the school picks me to design a mural and I paint god hates fags or belive in jesus or burn in in hell that's a taxpayer funded school showing preference toward a particular religion :rolleyes:

So nice try christians but using a little girl as a proxy wont work :rolleyes:

I'm not a Christian...and this wasn't an issue and they weren't using her as a proxy. She was making a reference to her grandfather praying to God.

Making reference to an act does not endorse the act. Otherwise we shouldn't be allowed to teach about slavery in class...since the very mention of an event is tact endorsement using your logic.

So...this is a non-issue and the school made it one while ignoring that they already likely spoke of God not a few minutes before during the assembly.

Stupid is as stupid does...wise words from Forrest Gump. :p

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TPreston    5,384

You are allowed to discuss slavery religion and other issues in a historical context, But turning a Veteran?s Day ceremony into a partisan event is idiotic and as in the case of the cheerleaders a violation and if it were a muslim that did the same thing there would be outrage.

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jakem1    1,610
The parent did not want the Almighty?s name mentioned

Lol, which "almighty"? I can't believe anyone relies on this company for their news.

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Simon-    490

From the sound of the poem, it was referring to her grandfathers who prayed to god. This is a FACT that they prayed to god, without going to the issue of whether the god they prayed to is real or not or being inclusive of non-believers in prayers, the fact is that her grandfathers still made those prayers, which is what was being referenced. Next up they are going to remove all references to religions ever existing from history books?

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Shane Nokes    739

You are allowed to discuss slavery religion and other issues in a historical context, But turning a Veteran?s Day ceremony into a partisan event is idiotic and as in the case of the cheerleaders a violation and if it were a muslim that did the same thing there would be outrage.

That's exactly what she wasn't doing. She was referring to what he had done in context of the past.

She wasn't proselytizing, but making reference to an actual event.

So like I said...evidently you feel that speaking of the existence of slavery is condoning it...once again using your logic.

Speaking of Allah...actually we had a few students in my old high school that were muslim. It was never an issue when it was mentioned by them during school assemblies when they spoke about their families for various events.

We also had a choir where we sang pieces from different religions throughout the year...odd thing how it became 'dirty' in the eyes of some to be a muslim after a certain event...

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TPreston    5,384

^ try that in the bible belt, Because that's exactly what you want for a veterans day ceremony why not bring the abortion debate into it aswell.

historical context != my grandpa prayed to the almighty and he cured his gayness. Im talking about history class.

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Shane Nokes    739

^ try that in the bible belt, Because that's exactly what you want for a veterans day ceremony why not bring the abortion debate into it aswell

Ah I get it. You're being difficult just to be difficult. If I had known that I wouldn't have bothered replying.

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TPreston    5,384

Ah I get it. You're being difficult just to be difficult. If I had known that I wouldn't have bothered replying.

I don't see why my position is the same regardless of religion, No endorsement she can bring in her bible and pray before the class but when she is elected by the school to do something she is acting on their behalf. If the opposite were the case why not hire little sally to decorate the public school with crosses and if anyone says a bad thing they're violating her free speech.

historical context != my grandpa prayed to the almighty and he cured his gayness. Im talking about history class.

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Shane Nokes    739

I don't see why my position is the same regardless of religion, No endorsement she can bring in her bible and pray before the class but when she is elected by the school to do something she is acting on their behalf. If the opposite were the case why not hire little sally to decorate the public school with crosses and if anyone says a bad thing they're violating her free speech.

historical context != my grandpa prayed to the almighty and he cured his gayness. Im talking about history class.

No, you're deliberately being obtuse in order to gain attention. You know that what you're saying in this case is completely wrong, but still seeking attention for some reason.

Sorry, but this is my last post on the matter. You know what you're doing, and it's not cool.

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68k    290

I would have seen no problem at all if she said "God". One day, we will all be judged, by God!

The media is trying hard to get rid of religion altogether. This article shows the effect of a successful brainwash; the media are getting good at it. America's government was based on Christianity at a time, but politicians today don't work on that (solid) basis anymore - they do things their way (and is the world getting any better?). There must be a greater force in control (of politicians). Overtime, I believe pure (non-denominational) Christianity will be proven correct.

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TPreston    5,384
America's government was based on Christianity at a time

e385bf19.jpg

First amendment=Freedom of religion

First commandment=No religions but christianity

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Shane Nokes    739

I would have seen no problem at all if she said "God". One day, we will all be judged, by God!

The media is trying hard to get rid of religion altogether. This article shows the effect of a successful brainwash; the media are getting good at it. America's government was based on Christianity at a time, but politicians today don't work on that (solid) basis anymore - they do things their way (and is the world getting any better?). I believe there is a greater force in control (of politicians). Overtime, I believe pure (non-denominational) Christianity will be proven correct.

:o WARNING: THE FOLLOWING VIDEO MAY CONTAIN A LYRIC THAT COULD OFFEND VIEWERS. IT MAY CAUSE RELIGIOUS PROTESTS. :angry: WATCH WITH UTTERMOST CARE (preferably with headphones on so your cat doesn't get offended). :o

(GREAT SONG - THIS IS REAL MUSIC! :rofl:)

Love the song...don't love the post. The country was not founded as a Christian nation. It was founded as a nation where religion was the choice of the individual. The freedom to not have interference in religion from the government.

This is the problem with a weak education system...people think that this is a fact when it's mere supposition without actual proper backing. :(

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