European carriers: Lumia phones are 'not good enough' to compete

[c3ntury]

They say everyone's a critic these days, but here's a group whose critique matters: European carriers. Reuters has been asking questions at four major European telecom operators and reports that they're all dissatisfied with the company's current range of Lumia handsets. Describing the Windows Phone devices as overpriced due to their lack of real innovation, glitchy due to early battery life issues, and inadequately supported by Nokia's own marketing, the carriers seem to be in consensus about the new phones' failure to put up real competition to iOS and Android. Put in starker terms, they don't believe that Nokia's Lumia phones are "good enough" to compete. An executive in charge of mobile phones at one of the big Euro carriers is cited as saying, "no one comes into the store and asks for a Windows Phone," placing at least some of the blame for the tepid start to Nokia's reboot on Microsoft's shoulders.

"IF THE LUMIA WITH THE SAME HARDWARE CAME WITH ANDROID IN IT AND NOT WINDOWS, IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER TO SELL."

Source - http://www.theverge...._medium=twitter

[watchthisspace]

Microsoft need to give the Euro carries a boost up the a** for saying that crap. Windows Phone is genuine competitor to iOS and Android.

[CronicHazel]

Hold on, since when did having a highly optimised OS (requiring less hardware to have the same performance) be a *negative* thing.

well sadly, that's how the markets buy their stuff. It's all about the big numbers on paper.

Hence why the Neon SRT-4 was such a popular buy amongst the general public that didn't know much else about car quality

[psionicinversion]

Its **** like this that makes ppl think WP isn't good. The lumia line is a top notch piece of kit, polycarbonate body clear black amoled screen, polarized gorilla glass. For build quality its the one of the best out there. The OS runs smooth as butter considering its apparent "inadequate" hardware as most put it. Also it hasn't taken MS 3years to add copy and paste *cough* apple *cough*. If ppl aren't coming into a shop and ask about it why don't they show it to then, the attitude sucks on these carriers.

Lets see how the mighty android and iOS compete with wp8. No more plain text tiles, can use pic for it. A plethora of other features more screen resolutions maybe 720 hd display?? Can always hope. Snapdragon S4 dual core, adreno 320 gpu which could be 10x faster than the 205 seeing as each revision is 2x faster than the last.

Last thing he says put android in a lumia and it would sell. Yeah sure it'll sell but you'll have taken a top notch piece of kit and turned it into a bargain basement pile of crap cus we all know how android runs on single core devices.

[D.Va]

Its **** like this that makes ppl think WP isn't good. The lumia line is a top notch piece of kit, polycarbonate body clear black amoled screen, polarized gorilla glass. For build quality its the one of the best out there. The OS runs smooth as butter considering its apparent "inadequate" hardware as most put it. Also it hasn't taken MS 3years to add copy and paste *cough* apple *cough*. If ppl aren't coming into a shop and ask about it why don't they show it to then, the attitude sucks on these carriers.

Lets see how the mighty android and iOS compete with wp8. No more plain text tiles, can use pic for it. A plethora of other features more screen resolutions maybe 720 hd display?? Can always hope. Snapdragon S4 dual core, adreno 320 gpu which could be 10x faster than the 205 seeing as each revision is 2x faster than the last.

Last thing he says put android in a lumia and it would sell. Yeah sure it'll sell but you'll have taken a top notch piece of kit and turned it into a bargain basement pile of crap cus we all know how android runs on single core devices.

We also know how android runs on dual-core devices. Still like crap.

[starbearer]

We also know how android runs on dual-core devices. Still like crap.

Oh, don't say that. I'm just about to purchase the Xperia S.

Would've preferred a Windows phone, sadly, SONY doesn't make one.

So here in India you're limited to just the 3 Lumia phones, Omnia W and one HTC.

Liked the 800 when it came out, but like the Xperia S even better.

[AbandonedTrolley]

Oh, don't say that. I'm just about to purchase the Xperia S.

Would've preferred a Windows phone, sadly, SONY doesn't make one.

So here in India you're limited to just the 3 Lumia phones, Omnia W and one HTC.

Liked the 800 when it came out, but like the Xperia S even better.

Xperia S runs great, had one since launch and it's smooth as anything. Much better then previous Desire and Arc. Also currently Gingerbread doesn't use hardware acceleration which ICS does so things will get smoother still.

[UndergroundWire]

Its **** like this that makes ppl think WP isn't good. The lumia line is a top notch piece of kit, polycarbonate body clear black amoled screen, polarized gorilla glass. For build quality its the one of the best out there. The OS runs smooth as butter considering its apparent "inadequate" hardware as most put it. Also it hasn't taken MS 3years to add copy and paste *cough* apple *cough*. If ppl aren't coming into a shop and ask about it why don't they show it to then, the attitude sucks on these carriers.

Lets see how the mighty android and iOS compete with wp8. No more plain text tiles, can use pic for it. A plethora of other features more screen resolutions maybe 720 hd display?? Can always hope. Snapdragon S4 dual core, adreno 320 gpu which could be 10x faster than the 205 seeing as each revision is 2x faster than the last.

Last thing he says put android in a lumia and it would sell. Yeah sure it'll sell but you'll have taken a top notch piece of kit and turned it into a bargain basement pile of crap cus we all know how android runs on single core devices.

People don't think that WP is not good. They just don't ask for it like the article stated. The either want an iOS or an Android phone. It's pretty clear cut. As for the "Put Android on a Lumia" statement, they were talking about today's standard. Can you give me an example of how the Lumia 900 is better than any other Windows Phone? Please don't mention 4G LTE.

I'll patiently wait for your reply before I go any further.

[deleted_acc]

People don't think that WP is not good. They just don't ask for it like the article stated. The either want an iOS or an Android phone. It's pretty clear cut. As for the "Put Android on a Lumia" statement, they were talking about today's standard. Can you give me an example of how the Lumia 900 is better than any other Windows Phone? Please don't mention 4G LTE.

I'll patiently wait for your reply before I go any further.

unibody, design and name, and of course there's NO 4,3 screen WP in Europe - Titan is more, Omnia 7 is less and 1st gen - and that's not Lumia 900 but Lumia specific but the Nokia Drive/Maps/Transport apps are a large appeal

[123456789A]

People don't think that WP is not good. They just don't ask for it like the article stated. The either want an iOS or an Android phone. It's pretty clear cut. As for the "Put Android on a Lumia" statement, they were talking about today's standard. Can you give me an example of how the Lumia 900 is better than any other Windows Phone? Please don't mention 4G LTE.

I'll patiently wait for your reply before I go any further.

Build quality, design, call quality, Nokia's outstanding support, Nokia apps, the screen.

[the better twin]

People don't think that WP is not good. They just don't ask for it like the article stated. The either want an iOS or an Android phone. It's pretty clear cut. As for the "Put Android on a Lumia" statement, they were talking about today's standard. Can you give me an example of how the Lumia 900 is better than any other Windows Phone? Please don't mention 4G LTE.

I'll patiently wait for your reply before I go any further.

Ill answer for him.

• Build quality - an area most Android manufacturers neglect.
  
• Camera- Carl Ziess lens
  
• Nokia apps - They are great
  
• Nokia clear black display. The polarised glass Nokia use make a huge difference when viewing in sunlight. Its one of the most important features imo.
  

These are just a few off the top of my head.

[George P]

Some people overstate the needs of the average consumer. They care more about how a phone/device looks than how many cores it has. As far as specs go they really just look at screen size, camera and storage, 3 areas the Lumia 900 isn't lacking in.

Besides, since we're talking the EU, before the Lumia 800 and 710 hit you barely heard anything about a WP device. Now I've heard average people who don't know about OS's talking about the Lumia phones, people in the EU know Nokia so what they see is another Nokia phone and not just a Windows phone.

[neo1911]

I recommended my uncle a Nokia Lumia 710. He is not happy with the phone for 3 reasons

1. Sound from speakers is not loud enough

2. He hates WP7.5 OS on it. He asked me the reason for things to be hidden in menus (Its a hit and miss with OS. Microsoft will not alter the fundamental design. So unfixable)

3. Battery life lasts him less than a day and after updating to latest version (I highly doubt it can be fixed in software update if original battery is of lower capacity to begin with)

The overall WP7 experience does not wow us like ICS or even iOS. Nokia comes up with does not help anything.

[Dot Matrix]

Bunch of Windows fanboys in this thread. I recommended my uncle a Nokia Lumia 710. He is not happy with the phone for 3 unfixable reasons

1. Sound from speakers is not loud enough

2. He hates WP7.5 OS on it. He asked me the reason for things to be hidden in menus (Its a hit and miss with OS. Microsoft will not alter the fundamental design. So unfixable)

3. Battery life lasts him less than a day and after updating to latest version (I highly doubt it can be fixed in software update if original battery is of lower capacity to begin with)

The overall WP7 experience does not wow us like ICS or even iOS. Top that with lame fake advertising (the Indian chick ad) Nokia comes up with does not help anything.

There's hidden menus in any OS. That's just a design element he'll have to learn to put up with.

[George P]

Argument 1 is subjective at best, some people like the volume, some want it lauder, that's a hardware issue and nothing to do with the OS itself.

As for #2, you think the layer after layer of menus in the other OS's is better? Really? I don't even know if you're trying to be serious with this one.

[+Majesticmerc]

If ppl aren't coming into a shop and ask about it why don't they show it to then, the attitude sucks on these carriers.

Why should they? For most people a "smartphone" is synonymous with Android or iOS, and the customer has a pretty good idea of what they want when they go into the phone store. Android manufacturers have the same problem with people that "want an iPhone". A salesperson that comes along and says "Hey, the Nokia Lumia will probably suit you better" will appear pushy and lose the sale, so what benefit is it to them to try and force WP7 on people who already know what they want?

I think that the carriers bring up valid points here. Windows Phone is barely advertised here in the UK (when compared to the iPhone and Android), and Microsoft being the minority share in the mobile space can't simply expect to switch to WP7 if they haven't heard of it. Nokia's marketing is OK, but to me the Lumia adverts advertise it as a feature phone rather than a smart phone. At the end of the day, Microsoft need to spend out the ass to market WP7, they're the minority here, and Android and iOS basically sell themselves because of their popularity. This isn't to say that WP is a bad OS, far from it, it's a great OS, but marketing is everything, and Microsoft isn't putting enough effort in over here in the EU.

It's worth remembering that here on Neowin, WP7 is well known, and as popular as iOS and Android, but this is a very pro-Microsoft site, and this is to be expected. In the real world, the number of WP7 phone owners in my circle of friends recently dropped from 2 down to 1 as one of them opted for a Galaxy Nexus. Nobody has heard of Windows Phone, and many of those that have are still butthurt about Windows Mobile.

[the better twin]

Bunch of Windows fanboys in this thread. I recommended my uncle a Nokia Lumia 710. He is not happy with the phone for 3 unfixable reasons

1. Sound from speakers is not loud enough

2. He hates WP7.5 OS on it. He asked me the reason for things to be hidden in menus (Its a hit and miss with OS. Microsoft will not alter the fundamental design. So unfixable)

3. Battery life lasts him less than a day and after updating to latest version (I highly doubt it can be fixed in software update if original battery is of lower capacity to begin with)

The overall WP7 experience does not wow us like ICS or even iOS. Top that with lame fake advertising (the Indian chick ad) Nokia comes up with does not help anything.

Oh noes! Your uncle has a different opinion. Everyone else must be a fanboi.

Worst post I've seen in a while congrats.

[Ently]

If Windows Phones had a better app store I think they would take a nice slice out of the Android/iOS pie easily. My last Windows Phone (which was about a year and a half ago) from what I remember had a very expensive app store. The same apps on Android and hell even iOS were cheaper than the WP Marketplace counter parts.

I'm not a developer but I also heard that developers have to pay to submit apps (80 dollars or something?) whereas iOS/Android you don't (I could be completely wrong on this so someone please correct me if I am).

I would say that's why Microsoft are struggling. Because as far as the phone was concerned it was brilliant, very fast and the interface was beautiful.

[George P]

If Windows Phones had a better app store I think they would take a nice slice out of the Android/iOS pie easily. My last Windows Phone (which was about a year and a half ago) from what I remember had a very expensive app store. The same apps on Android and hell even iOS were cheaper than the WP Marketplace counter parts.

I'm not a developer but I also heard that developers have to pay to submit apps (80 dollars or something?) whereas iOS/Android you don't (I could be completely wrong on this so someone please correct me if I am).

I would say that's why Microsoft are struggling. Because as far as the phone was concerned it was brilliant, very fast and the interface was beautiful.

MS can't keep up with the flood of apps coming into the marketplace to pass certification, so no, I doubt that developer interest is a problem.

[AbandonedTrolley]

Why should they? For most people a "smartphone" is synonymous with Android or iOS, and the customer has a pretty good idea of what they want when they go into the phone store. Android manufacturers have the same problem with people that "want an iPhone". A salesperson that comes along and says "Hey, the Nokia Lumia will probably suit you better" will appear pushy and lose the sale, so what benefit is it to them to try and force WP7 on people who already know what they want?

I think that the carriers bring up valid points here. Windows Phone is barely advertised here in the UK (when compared to the iPhone and Android), and Microsoft being the minority share in the mobile space can't simply expect to switch to WP7 if they haven't heard of it. Nokia's marketing is OK, but to me the Lumia adverts advertise it as a feature phone rather than a smart phone. At the end of the day, Microsoft need to spend out the ass to market WP7, they're the minority here, and Android and iOS basically sell themselves because of their popularity. This isn't to say that WP is a bad OS, far from it, it's a great OS, but marketing is everything, and Microsoft isn't putting enough effort in over here in the EU.

It's worth remembering that here on Neowin, WP7 is well known, and as popular as iOS and Android, but this is a very pro-Microsoft site, and this is to be expected. In the real world, the number of WP7 phone owners in my circle of friends recently dropped from 2 down to 1 as one of them opted for a Galaxy Nexus. Nobody has heard of Windows Phone, and many of those that have are still butthurt about Windows Mobile.

Been saying this about the UK for months now, we have barely seen a WP launch in all honesty. They haven't broken this market at all. I have now seen 4 WPs out in the wild in the UK. That's pretty poor if you ask me and I don't see how one phone will make it any better when people already know what phones they are looking for in the first place. There really isn't anything spectacular that the Nokia brings to the table to put it above an iPhone or a top end Android phone. I'm not denying it's a good phone, but without the marketing here in the UK it's not going to sell.

[neo1911]

Oh noes! Your uncle has a different opinion. Everyone else must be a fanboi.

Worst post I've seen in a while congrats.

Most people here are automatically assuming that EU carriers are thinking wrong. But since all carriers are having unanimous opinion of Nokia Lumia line, there has to be a common problem somewhere.

I just pointed out the possible areas of problem for Lumia line: Sub par Marketing, a year old hardware in terms of CPU and GPU, WP7 Os still not as friendly as it seems with app store apps consistently $1-2 costlier than android or iOS ones.

Thanks for pointing out that it was the worst post without even mentioning why. I am saddened by this attitude. After seeing my uncle dumping the new Lumia and using it as his 2nd emergency phone, I kinda started to loose some faith in Lumia.

[the better twin]

Most people here are automatically assuming that EU carriers are thinking wrong. But since all carriers are having unanimous opinion of Nokia Lumia line, there has to be a common problem somewhere.

I just pointed out the possible areas of problem for Lumia line: Sub par Marketing, a year old hardware in terms of CPU and GPU, WP7 Os still not as friendly as it seems with app store apps consistently $1-2 costlier than android or iOS ones.

Thanks for pointing out that it was the worst post without even mentioning why. I am saddened by this attitude. After seeing my uncle dumping the new Lumia and using it as his 2nd emergency phone, I kinda started to loose some faith in Lumia.

It was the worst post because you posted your uncles opinion and then just dismissed the opinions of everyone else as fanboys.

In contrast to your uncle, everyone who has seen my Lumia 800 has been impressed. 4 people I know have gone out and got one themselves because they thought it was great and others are just waiting out their contracts to upgrade to a Nokia windows phone.

Nokia have kept it up to date with frequent updates and apps, mine lasts at least a day on one charge and wp7 is a joy to use.

I have seen quite a bit of marketing. Lumia displays in every store, ads at the cinema, ads on tv. Sure they could probably do more in terms of marketing, but Nokia's efforts have been above and beyond anything else any other manufacturer has brought to the table with WP7.

The cost of apps is a nuisance but they do weekly deals so if you dont want to spend much wait for these and im sure if wp becomes more popular the increased competition would lead to a fall in prices.

[neo1911]

It was the worst post because you posted your uncles opinion and then just dismissed the opinions of everyone else as fanboys.

In contrast to your uncle, everyone who has seen my Lumia 800 has been impressed. 4 people I know have gone out and got one themselves because they thought it was great and others are just waiting out their contracts to upgrade to a Nokia windows phone.

Nokia have kept it up to date with frequent updates and apps, mine lasts at least a day on one charge and wp7 is a joy to use.

I have seen quite a bit of marketing. Lumia displays in every store, ads at the cinema, ads on tv. Sure they could probably do more in terms of marketing, but Nokia's efforts have been above and beyond anything else any other manufacturer has brought to the table with WP7.

The cost of apps is a nuisance but they do weekly deals so if you dont want to spend much wait for these and im sure if wp becomes more popular the increased competition would lead to a fall in prices.

Again the same problem. I am myself a fanboy of WP7. Because of that, I recommended it to my uncle in first place. It just leaves me wondering what could be wrong which leaves elder persons repulsed by it?

Are we so afraid to discuss what might be the acutal problem of these carriers who are openly dissing WP7 platform along with Lumia line?

Does that suddenly make sense to you or are you still annoyed because I called everyone including myself as fanboys?

[ichi]

cus we all know how android runs on single core devices.

Going by my Nexus S with a stock Android ROM I'd say that it runs perfectly fine.

[xeleraph]

Again the same problem. I am myself a fanboy of WP7. Because of that, I recommended it to my uncle in first place. It just leaves me wondering what could be wrong which leaves elder persons repulsed by it?

Are we so afraid to discuss what might be the acutal problem of these carriers who are openly dissing WP7 platform along with Lumia line?

Does that suddenly make sense to you or are you still annoyed because I called everyone including myself as fanboys?

So your faith in Windows Phone is dependent on whether your uncle likes it? And if your uncle doesn't like it, it automatically means he's right about what he's saying?

If anything, you suddenly made even less sense than before. There are problems with WP that need fixing, but honestly, the complaints you listed are not among them.