European carriers: Lumia phones are 'not good enough' to compete


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UndergroundWire

I'm not the one playing the numbers game; you're the one who said that Windows Phone doesn't have developers due to its Marketplace. Does this mean that the 80k apps in the WP Marketplace were all developed by Microsoft and Nokia, since WP doesn't have developers? Do you want to backpedal now and change your argument, or stick with your original one?

And you're bringing up games now? Not just games, but social games? From someone who said that only juveniles use social networks on their phones and you use yours for much more mature, important stuff? It's not a matter of me refusing to admit that I'm wrong. It's a matter of your hypocrisy and your flip-flopping between positions depending on which flavor of the day is better to bash Windows Phone with. Can you please clarify whether you think social networks and social games are important or not, as opposed to just flip-flopping between two opposing positions as convenient to suit your agenda?

I see you are avoiding the question. Don't be scared we all know the answer here. Let it out, people already know.

Also, I never said it is juvenile to use social networks. I would love for you to point me to where I actually said that. What I did say was it is juvenile to only focus on that. Microsoft focused mostly on how well this phone is linked to social networks. That is pretty jevenile if you ask me. Show me what else this phone is good for? That is what I originally said. PLEASE GET IT STRAIGHT! You are too stubborn to read correctly I see. But prove me wrong. I DARE YOU.

Have a pleasent and less stubborn day sir. I'm waiting for your so-called evidence.

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winrez

I recommended my uncle a Nokia Lumia 710. He is not happy with the phone for 3 reasons

1. Sound from speakers is not loud enough

2. He hates WP7.5 OS on it. He asked me the reason for things to be hidden in menus (Its a hit and miss with OS. Microsoft will not alter the fundamental design. So unfixable)

3. Battery life lasts him less than a day and after updating to latest version (I highly doubt it can be fixed in software update if original battery is of lower capacity to begin with)

The overall WP7 experience does not wow us like ICS or even iOS. Nokia comes up with does not help anything.

Probally didn't charge it fully before doing the update download a free battery drain utility on the WP marketplace and let it fully charge via an outlet (not usb hooked to a pc) he shouldn't have an issue anymore

I get 4-5 days heavy use (netflix, games, web browsing) before needing a charge same on my Samsung and htc trophy

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downhillrider

Dont Euros basically hate MS anyways? You would have thought this question should be asked a few weeks after Apollo comes out. If WindowsPhone cant gain on iOS and Android after Windows 8 then thats a different story. I know MS is basically keeping Nokia afloat, but its still a EU company I would have thought they want Nokia to succeed.

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xeleraph

I see you are avoiding the question. Don't be scared we all know the answer here. Let it out, people already know.

Also, I never said it is juvenile to use social networks. I would love for you to point me to where I actually said that. What I did say was it is juvenile to only focus on that. Microsoft focused mostly on how well this phone is linked to social networks. That is pretty jevenile if you ask me. Show me what else this phone is good for? That is what I originally said. PLEASE GET IT STRAIGHT! You are too stubborn to read correctly I see. But prove me wrong. I DARE YOU.

Have a pleasent and less stubborn day sir. I'm waiting for your so-called evidence.

Please. You're the one refusing to answer anything and clarify your position, and I'm the one avoiding the question?

You're the one who argued that the WP Marketplace doesn't have developers. I've already proven you wrong on that. You refuse to reply, and just insist that "I know what you mean".

You raise the lack of games - social games - as a weakness of the WP platform. I ask you to clarify whether your stance is to focus on social networks and games or not. Again you refuse to give us a straight answer, trying to leave wiggle room for yourself to flip-flop between two different positions as is convenient later.

Sure, you hate Windows Phone, that's pretty obvious, and that's your right. But is it going to kill you to at least be honest when you try to make attacks against it?

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UndergroundWire

Please. You're the one refusing to answer anything and clarify your position, and I'm the one avoiding the question?

You're the one who argued that the WP Marketplace doesn't have developers. I've already proven you wrong on that. You refuse to reply, and just insist that "I know what you mean".

You raise the lack of games - social games - as a weakness of the WP platform. I ask you to clarify whether your stance is to focus on social networks and games or not. Again you refuse to give us a straight answer, trying to leave wiggle room for yourself to flip-flop between two different positions as is convenient later.

Sure, you hate Windows Phone, that's pretty obvious, and that's your right. But is it going to kill you to at least be honest when you try to make attacks against it?

Wow. You really don't pay attention. I have said it several times that I don't like Windows Phone. But I see you really don't know how to read. Where is that proof about me flip-flopping? Why are you making up stuff boy? Wha are ypu sp stubborn boy? Please point me to where I supposedly said your made up words boy. I DARE YOU!.

You inability to answer this will just prove to everyone YOU ARE A LIAR (As Usuall).

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starbearer

Right. as I said, statcounter got it wrong, neowin had a story a couple of days ago. As far as I know Dell is still #2 PC maker worldwide and GOOG might be paying HP to make Chrome default? I haven't seen a new HP in recent times to know for sure.

Dell is not the second biggest PC maker. Lenovo took over second place from Dell quite sometime ago now.

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xeleraph

Wow. You really don't pay attention. I have said it several times that I don't like Windows Phone. But I see you really don't know how to read. Where is that proof about me flip-flopping? Why are you making up stuff boy? Wha are ypu sp stubborn boy? Please point me to where I supposedly said your made up words boy. I DARE YOU!.

You inability to answer this will just prove to everyone YOU ARE A LIAR (As Usuall).

So you're now denying you ever said that focusing on social stuff is juvenile, and that you only do "important stuff" on your phone?

Why don't you dare to give us a straight answer?

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MindTrickz

Dont Euros basically hate MS anyways? You would have thought this question should be asked a few weeks after Apollo comes out. If WindowsPhone cant gain on iOS and Android after Windows 8 then thats a different story. I know MS is basically keeping Nokia afloat, but its still a EU company I would have thought they want Nokia to succeed.

No, Europeans do not hate Microsoft and why would we keep Nokia afloat? That is not how free market works. If a company makes good products then the consumers will buy said products; but if the company makes products that the consumers do not want, such as the WP, then consumers will not buy the products and that company will eventually go under.

/facepalm.

Carriers are saying and that's why it makes true? Some carriers also said Apple doesn't stand a chance with iPhone.

Dell sells millions of PCs each year and they said Apple should close shop.

btw When you say WP sucks or you will never recommend WP, then you are not just quoting it. It's your prejudice (for whatever reason) in action.

You are seriously grasping at straws here. The carriers are the ones that buy the phones from the manufactures and sell them on to customers. They are in the best position when it comes to this mater, so when the 4 biggest carriers in Europe say that their costumers are not interested in Lumia phones, well then that means that people are not interested. This is not some sort conspiracy by the carriers against WP; it simply means that Europeans are not interested.

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HawkMan

Meanwhile other of europes biggest carriers are saying that WP and Nokia is what they have mos faith in and believe ms in forward, so it seems they hand picked the responses here.

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UndergroundWire

From someone who said that only juveniles use social networks on their phones and you use yours for much more mature, important stuff?

So you're now denying you ever said that focusing on social stuff is juvenile, and that you only do "important stuff" on your phone?

Why don't you dare to give us a straight answer?

I'm not sure if English is your second language. So I'll forgive you if that is the case. Nevertheless, take a look at what you said before and what you said now. Do you see a difference?

I said Microsoft focusing on social network integration to sell a phone is juvenile. I never said using social networks is juvenile. Which is why you can't find a post of me saying such things.

I'm hoping English is your second language because it would really explain a lot. Otherwise, you're just extremely foolish and I would recommend http://hop.com

You have a straight answer now? Either way, I am glad I exposed the flaw in your language or helped you to read.

fo?cus

a) a center of activity, attraction, or attention

b) a point of concentration

The focus of this post is to correct xeleraph's use of the English language.

http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/focus

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+Majesticmerc

Meanwhile other of europes biggest carriers are saying that WP and Nokia is what they have mos faith in and believe ms in forward, so it seems they hand picked the responses here.

Which ones? Not trying to imply BS, I just genuinely haven't heard anything.

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backdrifter

I'm kinda surprised that nobody mentions this, but the negative connotation of the Windows brand is a major contributor to this problem. The most obvious example of this is how everyone ignored the recent development done for IE. IE9 is a very decent browser that looks and works like any other popular browser right now, yet it's quite mainstream to still make fun of it everywhere. (Even Microsoft is aware of the problem, making a promotional web site about it saying "hey it's not that bad now", can't remember the address now)

Unfortunately the same thing goes for Windows Phone, people are still not feeling comfortable with the brand, despite Microsoft's ****load of efforts to make it acceptable again. Nokia made a great set of hardware, but when they are advertising the smart part of their smart phones, they either say Windows Phone which requires extra effort to persuade people to, or they don't emphasize that part which makes it seem like a feature phone. ("So, is it Android? Will I be able to install apps on it?")

I would leave Windows branding to PC's, and come up with new branding for the mobile OS (and also the browser in that sense) that would at least generate some genuine interest in to the platform. And this interest alone would spare Microsoft and Nokia from trying so hard to just get people giving it a chance.

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HawkMan

Which ones? Not trying to imply BS, I just genuinely haven't heard anything.

Well for one, Telenor, whic outside of Norway is I believe one of the biggest in the worlds thanks to investments in India and Russia outside. The old Swedish counterpart Telia is in a similar situation, though they tend to use more local names, but both use local names of companies they bought up.

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xeleraph

I'm not sure if English is your second language. So I'll forgive you if that is the case. Nevertheless, take a look at what you said before and what you said now. Do you see a difference?

I said Microsoft focusing on social network integration to sell a phone is juvenile. I never said using social networks is juvenile. Which is why you can't find a post of me saying such things.

I'm hoping English is your second language because it would really explain a lot. Otherwise, you're just extremely foolish and I would recommend http://hop.com

You have a straight answer now? Either way, I am glad I exposed the flaw in your language or helped you to read.

fo?cus

a) a center of activity, attraction, or attention

b) a point of concentration

The focus of this post is to correct xeleraph's use of the English language.

http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/focus

So it's juvenile of Microsoft to focus on social networks to sell a phone, but it's okay for you to focus on social games to bash a phone?

You might want to visit the dictionary you linked to and look up the definition of "hypocrisy".

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UndergroundWire

So it's juvenile of Microsoft to focus on social networks to sell a phone, but it's okay for you to focus on social games to bash a phone?

You might want to visit the dictionary you linked to and look up the definition of "hypocrisy".

It's really not. It just shows the lack of the popular developers for that platform. That is all. Do you deny that Windows Phone lacks the same apps that everyone is talking about on iOS or Android? Out of curiosity is there any apps you wish you had? If you think it is perfect for you, then perhaps you shouldn't be the one defending every aspect of that platform. The one thing I wish my phone had that Windows Phone has is Microsoft's version of Facebook. Because Facebook just doesn't know how to design apps that are not slow for either iOS or Android. It is too slow. But this isn't a deal breaker for me because I don't FOCUS on social networks when picking out a phone.

I like aspects of the iPhone and I like a lot of aspects of Android. In fact I have both with me everyday. There is not one thing I can think of that I like about Windows Phone. Office was really nice but to me that is better suited for a tablet. I really hope Microsoft brings that to the iPad. But I digress.

I seriously tried to like Windows Phone this past weekend. I went out and bought a Lumia 900 from AT&T off contract. I signed in with my Live account that I use with my 360. I imported my contacts from Gmail to Live. I played with Office (again it wold be better suited for a tablet and I am glad that it will be bundled for free with Windows 8 Tablets). I tethered my Galaxy Nexus to it so I can use Nokia Drive. I installed the update that came out for it (which didn't affect me since there was no line of service to it). I "uninstalled" preloaded apps. I went on the market downloaded Facebook, Twitter and foursquare app. All official apps. It was disappointing that those apps didn't have any Live Tiles associated with it. I took pictures on it that were OK not as good as the iPhone 4S. I took video (again, not as good as the iPhone 4S). I spent two days on it and said to myself that it was a foolish buy and returned it on the third day. I took a $35 dollar restocking fee loss which was no biggie.I am a gadget geek and even though I didn't like it, it was money well spent.

I noticed something that really shouldn't bother me (but it did). iTunes knows what color iPhone and Tablet I have but Zune decided to make my Lumia Black even though I had the Cyan color.

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HawkMan

It's really not. It just shows the lack of the popular developers for that platform. That is all. Do you deny that Windows Phone lacks the same apps that everyone is talking about on iOS or Android?

The only app I miss on WP doesn't exist on iOS either,and is the wifi app that shows nearby networks, signal strengths and overlaps and all nice things, useful for work.

However that one app is not enough for me to go back to the android slum.

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Billus

The real issue for Microsoft is, in my opinion of course, is how to convince customers of Apple and Google to leave them and join the Microsoft team. Quite a number of iOS and Android users would have purchased apps, music, books etc for their phones, and as each day, week, month, year passes, it's only going to get harder and harder. Microsoft has to somehow entice new users to join them. For existing smarthphone users, they will have to argue relentlessly and give good reasons why they should use Windows Phone and re-purchase any games,apps, music etc bought in the past.

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xeleraph

It's really not. It just shows the lack of the popular developers for that platform. That is all. Do you deny that Windows Phone lacks the same apps that everyone is talking about on iOS or Android? Out of curiosity is there any apps you wish you had? If you think it is perfect for you, then perhaps you shouldn't be the one defending every aspect of that platform. The one thing I wish my phone had that Windows Phone has is Microsoft's version of Facebook. Because Facebook just doesn't know how to design apps that are not slow for either iOS or Android. It is too slow. But this isn't a deal breaker for me because I don't FOCUS on social networks when picking out a phone.

Of course WP doesn't have "popular developers", because when you say "popular developers", what you really mean to say is "developers who are popular only on Android/iOS and refuse to release for WP". Going by your definition, it's impossible for WP to have "popular developers" as you define them because your logic is flawed - does Android not having Infinity Blade mean that it also lacks "popular developers"? If we're going to use the actual definition of "popular developers", on the other hand, we have developers like Sega, Rovio, Viber, Gameloft, EA, Popcap, Namco, etc all developing for WP, and a whole bunch of other companies collaborating with Microsoft Studios to release their titles. Even when "official" apps aren't available, you have alternatives like Rowi, Fhotoroom, Metroradio, Wordament, YouTube Pro, Pinspire, etc that match or beat the functionality you get from standard official apps on Android/iOS.

Cherry-picking a handful of titles and using it as an excuse to argue that Windows Phone does not have "popular developers" just shows that you're too lazy to come up with a valid argument, plain and simple. Even when describing your experience with Windows Phone, you failed to mention that you couldn't find an app you wanted, because the fact is that Windows Phone has a lot of apps that covers a very wide range of use cases, despite what the tech pundits constantly harp on because apparently all you need to do as a reviewer these days is repeat what everyone else is saying without doing your own research. Windows Phone is still a relatively immature OS and it has flaws all over the place, I'm sure you can actually come up with some legitimate complaints if you tried, but unfortunately all you decided to do was to recycle old and logically flawed arguments.

To answer your question, if there's an app I'm missing on Windows Phone, it's Google Docs editing (as opposed to just viewing). Sure, Office is far superior as an office solution, but I use Ubuntu on two of my computers at home, and I've already got years of stuff stored in my GDocs account. To give you a valid example of WP's weakness, it's that Bing Maps and Local Scout are completely terrible compared to Google Maps if you're not in US/Europe. Sure, you can download the Google Maps app, but it's nowhere near as integrated with the OS as Bing is, and therefore more inconvenient to use. Or another example: IE mobile is a really terrible browser compared to other options like Dolphin and Opera. It's even worse than the stock Android browser in terms of usability, and that's really saying something, except that unlike Android you don't have the choice of installing Dolphin.

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BajiRav

Or another example: IE mobile is a really terrible browser compared to other options like Dolphin and Opera. It's even worse than the stock Android browser in terms of usability, and that's really saying something, except that unlike Android you don't have the choice of installing Dolphin.

Honestly, I have seen this thrown around a lot but I have not faced any issues with most websites I opened on my WP and the ones that had problems, did not have a mobile site to beginwith.

I read a whileback that -webkit is the new IE6 of the mobile web and that might be the issue. With sites coded specifically using -webkit extensions for iOS/Android instead of standard HTML5, it's lazy developers who once blamed Microsoft for all troubles but they are the problem this.

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UndergroundWire

...

The problem with Android and Windows Phone is gaming. iOS is the best mobile platform for gaming. Again, that is why I have both phones. Between the two of them, I don't miss a thing. iOS has all the popular game developers for sure. That is no question. In my mind I consider Apps and Games as seperate beasts. To further clarify, I don't consider "puzzle games" in the same league as Infinity Blade. There is no way one can ever compare Angry Birds or Words with Friends to Infinity Blade.

It's too bad that Office can't open your Google docs. IMO, office is better. GDocs is not terrible by any means but if given the opportunity, I will use Office. I agree that the Android Browser is not the best, thank god for Chrome though.

Quite honestly there are things (professionally) that I use Bing Maps for. Google is great because their maps are more up to date, but they don't offer a birds eye view. Between Google Maps updated aerial, Street View and Bings Birds eye, it is extremely useful.

The Apps that I wanted on WP that I couldn't get were AutoCAD WS and Box.com. There is an alternative to Box, but I couldn't connect. Someone told me it is because I am on the enterprise subscription which is encrypted. Another bad experience was the ArcGIS app. It is just as bad on WP as it is on Android. It is the developers (ESRI) fault because they focus on the iPad (which operates really nice). Spotify was also available and worked just as well as the iOS and Android App. The only exception being that iOS has the really high bit-rate streaming music (which is rather silly since it doesn't have LTE).

So as you can see, why would I be compelled to use Windows Phone? I have a better experience with my other two devices with third party apps?

And I am glad I had this conversation with you because you are not like the other people on this site who talk like it is all about one company and that is it. You actually know what you are talking about for the most part and I do believe you are genuine when you say you are happy about you product of choice. But not everyone is like you. For the next couple of years, Apps are going to play a big role on phones. Until HTML 5 and other hardware advancements are made, Apps will be the driving factor of todays phones.

Take a look at it this way, your average user that has a computer. What do they use it for? Nothing that no operating system can do, right. It doesn't really matter if you buy a mac, pc or linux if you fall into the general users. Everything is pretty much done on the web today with a few people that need some office type software. Phones are not like that yet.

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DevilsNotDead

the statement is absolutely true... Its a nice phone but it cant compete

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DevilsNotDead

The only app I miss on WP doesn't exist on iOS either,and is the wifi app that shows nearby networks, signal strengths and overlaps and all nice things, useful for work.

However that one app is not enough for me to go back to the android slum.

I am missing 22 apps compared to my previous Android phone.. I just counted.

I use very few apps though

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HawkMan

What are these 22 apps you miss in the sense that you "need" them and the have no replacements ?

And apps that don't require jail breaking.

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suprNOVA

Well no **** it would be easier to sell you idiot, they're well KNOWN. WP IS JUST PICKING UP!

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BajiRav

I am missing 22 apps compared to my previous Android phone.. I just counted.

I use very few apps though

Care to list them here?

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