Double router problem


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Hi all.

I have a problem with my home network.

I have 2 routers, a netgear DGND3300 which is the main router, connected to the internet, with wireless network enabled, which works fine, then a cable connected from this router to a second router, a netgear DG834G, at the other end of my house. I wanted to have 2 wireless networks, 1 at each end of the house depending on where you were, so I could get a decent signal anywhere. I disabled DHCP on the dg834. If I plug a cable into this router and into my laptop, I have no issues using the internet, if I connect to the wireless, it will always stay connected, but the internet through this wireless doesn't work so well at all, if I have msn live messenger running on my laptop, It works completely fine, doesn't disconnect or anything and I can talk to someone for ages without any issues. I start getting issues when I want to go on something like youtube, it will load a second of a video and stop for a while, then play another second and so on, I'm unsure what to do, is there a setting on the router I need to turn off / on?

Cheers.

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If you connect by wireless to your DGND3300 do you get any youtube loading problems?

Could be the DG834G is to slow for wireless to do youtube?

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I don't get any problems at all connecting to the 3300 wireless, I used the use the dg834g wireless before I got the 3300 and had no issues then, Im unsure what the problem is.

Cheers.

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Please check all firmware upgrades for the router.

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Not sure your exact setup...

How to setup wireless with routers as access points

router1 = internet port connected to cable/fios/dsl modem. dhcp enabled, ssid of router1 = myssid

router2 = ethernet cable from a port on router 1 to any internal port on the router, the internet/wan port is not to be used. dhcp is disabled. ssid of router2 = myssid

Pay attention to the ssid of both router1 and router2....they are the same, there is a reason for this. The network card will pick whatever access point has the strongest signal and seamlessly switch between them so you don't drop when connecting to different access points. you can move about your house without noticeably dropping off and switching between areas.

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I just updated the 3300 router, set the SSID's to the same on both routers, and using the same password / encrytion, I still have the issue, but it seems a bit better. In windows, I can only see 1 network now under the name, and its the one next to my laptop. I can browse the internet no problems at all, its all very fast, but the problem still lies with loading videos on youtube or where ever I go to, it will take a few seconds to load the video, then play around 4-5 seconds before stopping for 10 seconds then it will play a split second then pause for a while then play another split second and so forth. Any ideas what it could be?

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hard wire in, do you have the same issue...if yes - possibly a computer problem or further network issue.

if no - we will need to research further into the options of the wireless network card.

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first make sure you are on the latest manufacturer driver. if issues continue go to next

make sure all options in the device properties are set to default. if issues continue go to next

using inssider see if there are any conflicting networks in the area, may have to change channels. if continues go to next

using try setting your mtu (maximum transmit unit) down to 1400 on the network card and see if that helps (default is 1500)

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OK, upgraded to the latest drivers, made a slight improvement, internet seemed to load a page faster, went on to youtube and it loaded the first 24 seconds of a video, then played a little bit more, it didnt stop as much as it did. but after around 45 seconds it will just stop altogether. Tried downloading inssider, while connected to the 2nd wireless network, the file size was about 1.71mb, and I was getting between 15 - 18kbps,, while if I was hardwired, or connected to the first wireless, I'd be getting anywhere upto 700kbps. I went into device properties, and couldn't see anywhere to make all the settings default? Having a few issues changing the MTU, i used the command "netsh interface ipv4 set subinterface "Wireless Network Connection" mtu=1458 store=persistent" but got an error message saying "the requested operation requires elevation".

I also installed the inssider, but unsure exactly what im looking for, It lists about 11 wireless networks.

I don't know what to do :/

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Give us a screenshot of inssider. We can help from there. With that many networks probably some interference from one of them. We can help with that.

Try plugging directly into router2 and check speeds as well.

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If I plug directly into router 2, I get full download speed, not an issue there.

Both networks are on differnet channels.

The Jason 2.4-G network is the router1, and Jason is router2.

Cheers

post-85633-0-36258600-1338829670.jpg

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You have 5 other routers on Channel 11. Tried changing it to another channel that isn't 1, 7 or 11?

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Tried changing the channels, no effect, also, deleted the network adapter, restarted and reinstalled it, still didn't make any difference.

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I already had a 2nd wireless router spare which is why I am using it.

Looking through the settings on both routers, If I go into WAN settings, the MTU for the first router is 1458 and the second is 1492, will this make any difference?

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From that link, It is suggesting that both routers are connected wirelessly, but I have signal issues in my room hence me trying to set up this 2nd router as a second wireless network.

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If what he explained is correct he is not double natting, but using 2nd router as AP. As to suggesting he use wireless repeater mode - that is just wrong plain and simple. He can run a wire from first router to 2nd router, then best solution is AP to allow for better wireless coverage. Wireless repeating would only make matters worse - for starters doing such a thing would be an instant /2 in available bandwidth.

What I don't get is why he is running 2nd router (jason) as WEP? And why is it a different SSID? If you want to use as AP then should be same SSID and needs to be same security - this will allow for transparent movement between them to which ever has best connection.

Your bad connection using the second router "could" be do to wep - maybe your card just does not like this mode. Seem odd, but I have see where there are issues with security mode and specific card. If all possible you should be using WPA2 with a STRONG PSK.

All the others in the area are very low signal 80+ so should really not be a big concern with interference. Other than something that inssider is not showing in that freq band (phone, microwave, etc)

BTW, if in fact your using your 2nd router as just an AP then its mtu setting would be completely meaningless since your not using your WAN interface in AP mode.. IE you stated you turned off its dhcp, so this tells me if your working while connecting to this wireless network you must be in AP mode if you can use the internet at all. If you say it works great when wired to 2nd router I would have to say either that routers wireless is just going bad, don't like the WEP, etc. Signal looks very very strong! Maybe too strong? Can you try from a little farther away from router 2?

Also for testing you could turn off the security - just use OPEN, how does wireless work then? If good then change to WPA/WPA2 how is it then?

Unless you have devices that do not understand WPA, there would be no reason to run WEP -- it is out dated security method, and can be hacked in less than 30 seconds by anyone that can read a guide they can find in 2 seconds on google.

As to MTU setting on his devices for his local network, I can think of no reason that they should not be 1500 - as to his router connected to his ISP. This should be set per his ISP instructions. Yes depending on this connection type with his ISP it might be best if set to something lower than 1500. But I sure would not go dicking with the local machines settings, nor would that 2nd routers wan MTU have anything to do with anything.

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Both ssids should be Jason

Both encryption types should be the same - wpa2

Both encryption passwords should be the same

You wouldn't touch the mtu on the second router, it is for the outside interface only. you should not be using the outside interface for anything. The outside/wan/internet port can and should be destroyed, imo, or at the very least put a piece of electrical tape over it so you don't use the damned thing. What I was suggesting with the mtu would be on the wireless network card itself. It shouldn't matter, but something is fked up.

I wouldn't think it would be wep causing that kind of issue.

Perhaps resetting that router back to defaults and reconfiguring it....no dhcp, wireless ssid jason, no wireless security, not wan/internet/outside port in use, make the second router one ip above the other and make sure it the address isn't in the dhcp scope to be used.

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SC302, where have you seen that changing MTU from default of 1500 is recommended practice on wireless interfaces.. There should be no reason that wireless should perform better at lower than 1500, unless there is some overhead in the wireless network that I am not aware of, or some non standard type setup on the wireless AP?

You could see if their is a issue with the MTU with quick sniff of the traffic - but I have never seen a reason why you should have to adjust the wireless nics mtu. Could you please provide more info on this - why would you suggest this?

I could understand maybe adjusting your whole local network to provide for better support if your internet requires something less than 1500 mtu and most of your traffic is internet based.

But since he says he has no performance issues with wired, seem unlikely that he should have to lower the mtu on his wireless?

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This one time many years ago, we were having an unexplained internet connectivity issue where it would just drop off the face of the world. Connection was through a t1. There was no rhyme or reason to the drop. It wasn't on every website either. Real goofy issue. Checked everything, routing, network settings, all of the basic crap. Finally one tech said fk it, drop the mtu on the card itself, not the rest of the network, and that one computer held the connection out. That was on a wired connection, not wireless.

While I don't necessarily think it is a mtu setting issue...it is the absolute last thing to try. There are many variables that we don't know...shot gun approach if you will.

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Sounds like a issue with path discovery you were having, where something in the path was not reporting max mtu correctly so it could be adjusted. If that is the case then sure dropping it would allow you to access through that network section.

I guess sure as a trouble shooting option its a viable thing to do, but I would not suggest it off the cuff without some more info. My point being since he stated he has no issue with wired connection - I don't see how mtu lower than default 1500 should be required.

Unless there is some major issue with 1500 causing excessive fragmentation, lowering the mtu would normally have the opposite effect of increasing performance ;)

But once if fixes up the obvious issues, mismatched ssids, different security settings, etc. I would suggest a sniff of traffic he is generating to test performance of this low speed to point us to what the issue might be vs blindly suggesting MTU change.

I would suggest if has altered the mtu of his router connected to his ISP, he reset that to what is suggested by his ISP. If it lower than default 1500 - then sure you could lower the mtu on all the devices. But path discovery should lower the mtu automatically when sending traffic through this device. Most routers these days also support MSS clamping do they not? That might be something to look into if we feel mtu is the problem, which currently imho I doubt.

You can have problems with PMTU if some device is incorrectly blocking ICMP -- which is used in this, etc.

Having him change his wireless mtu while still making other suggestions would not be good if you ask me, this is how FUD gets started - clearly this user is lacking in the finer workings of the protocols in use. If he issue goes away after changing his mtu -- that could find its way to others where. Next thing you know we have tweak sites reporting that lowering your wireless nic MTU fixes performance issues ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Sorry for the late reply, Only just got round to doing this again.

Since doing this, I have upgraded to windows 7, and the normal wireless seems better than when I was using vista, I get 3 bars usually.

So, I have changed the names both to Jason, both encrytion types and passwords are the same, still have the same issue. I've tried them on the same and different wireless channels.

Any other ideas?

Maybe I'll try resetting both routers back to default.

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