Why didn't Microsoft do this instead?

[HawkMan]

Sigh. It's not about the 'launcher' aspect of the taskbar, it's about the task switching aspect. For me, having an overview of what Windows are opened at all times is essential to using my computer.

I'd be fine with Windows 8 if it'd just have an option to disable launching of any Metro environment apps. Aka opening anything from the start screen kicking you back to the desktop with regular Windows. That'd be a good compromise, and I sincerely hope I can disable all Metro applications by uninstalling them or blocking them with Group Policies.

I hope someone somewhere will find a way to hack it out but I'm starting to wonder.

Yeah I know, chooseing the default app when you first open a file after you install a new app that's capable of opening said file format is such a chore...

As long as there's more than one program able to launch a file format, the first time you launch it you will get a popup to pick your default app. and if you install a new app that supports it, the next time you open a file. you got it, same popup. Seems like a better solution than the old to me, and as long as you pick your default it won't open in Metro, you know as long as there's an alternative. Yeah if you haven't installed adobe reader, of course it's gonna open the pdf in the metro reader, there's nothing else that can open the file.

[anarkhy]

having a taskbar on metro is redundant when the new os is expected to be user friendly, intuitive and interactive. w8 was not designed to run old apps on old hardware, but to offer a new experience on new systems. so stop crying, stick with 7, mac, linux... whatever...

[Stetson]

I definitely wish they would unify the task switching between Metro and the Desktop. That's my biggest annoyance with the current state of Windows 8. If I'm using a couple of Metro apps and a couple of Desktop apps, I have to use two different systems to switch between them.

A single taskbar/superbar that showed all running apps, desktop and metro, would fix that I think. Right now to go from a Metro app to a Desktop app, you have to first switch to the Desktop using the left-hand-side Metro Switcher, and then pick the desktop app you want from the taskbar.

I started out trying to use some of the Metro apps, but now I end up sticking with the desktop 95% of the time, just because it's such a pain to switch back and forth and keep track of what is open where.

[Dot Matrix]

I definitely wish they would unify the task switching between Metro and the Desktop. That's my biggest annoyance with the current state of Windows 8. If I'm using a couple of Metro apps and a couple of Desktop apps, I have to use two different systems to switch between them.

A single taskbar/superbar that showed all running apps, desktop and metro, would fix that I think. Right now to go from a Metro app to a Desktop app, you have to first switch to the Desktop using the left-hand-side Metro Switcher, and then pick the desktop app you want from the taskbar.

I started out trying to use some of the Metro apps, but now I end up sticking with the desktop 95% of the time, just because it's such a pain to switch back and forth and keep track of what is open where.

Alt-Tab switches between everything - Metro and Desktop.

[Stetson]

Alt-Tab switches between everything - Metro and Desktop.

Yep. So if Alt-Tab is unified and shows all running apps, why do the Metro Switcher and the Taskbar not show the same information?

[Emon]

Attention : Severe eye-candy below.

eww .. ugly as sin :x

[HawkMan]

Yep. So if Alt-Tab is unified and shows all running apps, why do the Metro Switcher and the Taskbar not show the same information?

Alt Tab runs under explorer Shell. the Superbar runs on the desktop which runs under explorer shell, and the Metro switcher runs under Metro which also runs under explorer shell in parallel with the desktop/superbar.

Basically the only one that sees all the running tasks is explorer and alt tab. Technically it wouldn't be impossible for them to add talk back api's that allowed explorer to report back to the underlying sub shells what's running, but I'd cause some inconsistencies since they use completely different ways to show what's running, so a lot of data would have to be sent back and forth internally slowing stuff down, from thumbnails to mini previews.

and from a design perspective they may simply want to separate the two as well. after all Metro apps don't actually run in the background, and desktop apps are always on the superbar anyway and if you use them you're likely to be on the desktop anyway, and mostly using the start screen purely an efficient launcher.

[f0rk_b0mb]

Time: 1:01

He has Trojans on his machine

[Calum Veteran]

Design and usability issues aside, regarding this mockup, the Desktop is an app in Windows 8. The Start Screen is used to access apps, and it isn't merged with apps in this unusable way. If you'd like to access the Desktop or any of the apps you have running in the Desktop, you could either click the Desktop tile or press Ctrl+D on the keyboard. Many of us plan to use the Desktop as little as possible, too, so this wouldn't be a good idea for us.

[Dot Matrix]

Most of you here are trying to preserve the desktop UX as the main center of attention, when that won't work. If Microsoft wants to make Metro on Windows 8, than the different atmospheres should be kept separate, despite that many feel the switch between the two is jarring. Combining them wouldn't help, but cause more user frustration.

If you're keen to work on the desktop, remove the Metro apps from you system and pin your needed x64 apps to the dashboard. It doesn't matter if you boot to the desktop or Start Screen, your app can be launched regardless and take you where you need to be.

Also, this type of UX would not work on tablets or other touch machines for obvious reasons. Windows 8 is designed to be device neutral.

[Reacon]

Because wheres my wallpaper? I use my startscreen as an app launcher so my desktop can live free of icons.

Why have a desktop of disorganized icons when you can have something like this, alphabetized and one click away without minimizing everything.

Also, unless the start screen can completely replace the information that my rainmeter gives me, I don't see the reason behind a start menu taking the entire screen for the same information.

[HawkMan]

Why have a desktop of disorganized icons when you can have something like this, alphabetized and one click away without minimizing everything.

Also, unless the start screen can completely replace the information that my rainmeter gives me, I don't see the reason behind a start menu taking the entire screen for the same information.

I'll take an organized metro start screen over that mess any day. far faster to open and launch any app than it is to open find app and click it without missing in that mess.

[Dot Matrix]

Why have a desktop of disorganized icons when you can have something like this, alphabetized and one click away without minimizing everything.

Also, unless the start screen can completely replace the information that my rainmeter gives me, I don't see the reason behind a start menu taking the entire screen for the same information.

I'll take an organized metro start screen over that mess any day. far faster to open and launch any app than it is to open find app and click it without missing in that mess.

I agree, that is a bit messy, and again, having a "mouse first, touch second" UX wouldn't work with touch screen devices. The market rejected Windows 7 on them, so there is no reason for Microsoft to continue down that path.

[foan]

Another Win or Fail Metro Integration, this time with Neowin News?

[Growled Member]

Sort of reminds me of a Metro/Gnome 3 mixture.

[Dot Matrix]

Are you asking us if we like it?

[theyarecomingforyou]

Most of you here are trying to preserve the desktop UX as the main center of attention, when that won't work. If Microsoft wants to make Metro on Windows 8, than the different atmospheres should be kept separate, despite that many feel the switch between the two is jarring. Combining them wouldn't help, but cause more user frustration.

It's not about preserving the desktop, it's about basic functionality. The taskbar is an excellent way to quickly switch between applications and unlike the Metro task switcher it isn't hidden - you can clearly see what it is you're trying to locate. I think the best approach would have been to have both Metro and desktop apps appear on the taskbar but auto-hide it when running Metro apps - that way simply moving your mouse to the bottom of the screen would allow you to quickly switch apps. And if the charm bar was touch only - it's useless on the desktop and search could be implemented elsewhere - then Microsoft wouldn't have needed to bother with the hot-corners, which are largely pointless. It's also about consistency. Why don't desktop apps appear in the Metro task switcher when it appears on the desktop? Why don't Metro and desktop apps recognise the same gestures, like Aero Snap? Why do some desktop settings - like network connections - appear in Metro sidebars while others don't?

Metro is bolted on with little consideration as to how desktop users operate their computers. I have a 30" screen and rarely run apps in fullscreen, instead using Aero Snap to run two apps side-by-side - Metro doesn't support that. And most Metro apps make appalling use of additional vertical resolution, typically leaving over 40% of my screen completely blank. I'd rather use that extra space to run an app that is actually of benefit to me. Microsoft has been quite arrogant with regards to the needs of desktop users. I like the concept of Metro but the implementation leaves a LOT to be desired.

[contextfree]

I prefer the start screen to desktop shortcuts (and to what "start screen on the desktop" would be) because, since it?s really a popup menu of sorts, you can bring it up and click to open up a window on top of your existing window configuration without disturbing that. With desktop shortcuts, even if you use the Win-D shortcut, when you double-click on an icon it forgets your previous window configuration, so you have to manually restore everything. Another thing I like to do with the start screen is keep groups of shortcuts to folders and apps associated with activities or projects I?m working on. I can keep those groups off to the right most of the time, then easily move a whole group to the first page when I know I?ll be working on that for a while.

On the other hand, I find switching between programs to be cumbersome whenever I?m mixing and matching desktop and Metro style apps, and actually this is my biggest problem with Windows 8. First it sometimes takes a second to think whether you want a desktop or Metro style app, then if it?s a desktop app, I have to first switch to the desktop, then switch to the app itself. Even realizing which app you want to switch to can itself take a bit longer when you don?t have the taskbar with common and running apps right in front of you. Then switching to the desktop itself is cumbersome unless you happen to know a shortcut.

There are certainly some workarounds and shortcuts that help here. There?s alt-tab, although this is a bit wonky because since Metro style apps don?t follow the same manual lifecycle model that desktop apps do, you can never be sure if a given app that you haven?t used for a while will be there or not. For getting to the desktop quickly there?s Win-D, and there?s a nice and quick if obscure mouse method: Because ?Desktop? is always the initially highlighted item in the shortcut menu that pops up when you right-click on the Start tip in the lower left corner, you can always get to the desktop with the sequence ?move to lower-left, right-click, left-click? which once you?ve done it a few times you can do instantly without looking. I also benefit from a convention I?ve been applying to all my Windows 7 PCs for a while, which is to put some of my taskbar buttons in a specific consistent order and use the Win + shortcuts: I always have a web browser as Win-2, Visual Studio as Win-3, a media player as Win-4, OneNote as Win-6, etc. So I can continue using this method to get to these apps instantly even from Metro style apps. While these work for me, they feel too much like esoteric workarounds to work for most people.

Since Windows 7 I?d almost say rather than ?living in the desktop? I?ve been ?living in the taskbar? and even though I understand the reasons it?s a shame to have that nice unified place for launching, switching, closing, notifications, monitoring long-running tasks, taking quick actions, jumping to common destinations within apps, even file and program management (e.g. I can drag and drop common folders from jump lists into other apps) be shattered into pieces.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Ok, great, but how does this work on tablets?

(Hint: It doesn't)

That is the core problem that the current Windows 8 implementation of Metro exposes. This solution wouldn't be perfect on tablets and the existing Metro isn't perfect on PCs. The reality is, Microsoft should have tweaked Windows to run slightly different on tablets and desktops and not attempted to shoehorn the desktop into a tablet.

The best approach would have been toggling the current Metro experience automatically if the OS were to be running on a tablet and an experience similar to what has been posted here when run on a desktop. This has been the way device specific features have been historically implemented and it makes the most sense. You don't see the handwriting input panel on Windows 7 unless you have a touch screen, for instance.

Everyone here will endlessly argue UX enhancements and retractions, but the reality is that Microsoft isn't doing this for any reason other than hoping to get a solid foot into the tablet market. The hope is that a Metro first experience will force developers to embrace Metro in a deep fashion. Since Metro apps will work on the tablet and the desktop they'll be able to leverage the desktop in the tablet war for developer interest.

I think this is a very dangerous choice by Microsoft, but we'll see how this plays out...

[contextfree]

And if the charm bar was touch only - it's useless on the desktop and search could be implemented elsewhere - then Microsoft wouldn't have needed to bother with the hot-corners, which are largely pointless.

The charms are more or less the same with touch as they are with mouse, so they're just as useful/useless with one as with the other - it wouldn't make any sense to base their availability on input method.

[Raa]

Because you're only changing one color for another. That's nice I guess. But the option to turn it off is going to make more sense.*

[argonite]

The best approach would have been toggling the current Metro experience automatically if the OS were to be running on a tablet and an experience similar to what has been posted here when run on a desktop. This has been the way device specific features have been historically implemented and it makes the most sense. You don't see the handwriting input panel on Windows 7 unless you have a touch screen, for instance..

While this sounds great in theory, it means that people who are trained in how Windows 8 works (for example, they buy a tablet and learn all the gestures) have to retool their thinking for Windows 8 on desktop ("where's the Start Screen?" "why can't I pull up the charms?"). With Windows 8 unifying Metro on all devices, they will intuitively know how to operate both environments once they are trained in one.

For desktop Windows 8 users, they'll also know how to operate Windows 8 on tablet once they familiarize themselves. It's an uphill battle, and Microsoft's success entirely depends on whether the market is willing to adapt. But I'm confident that once Microsoft unifies all interfaces, there will be fewer tech support calls. Getting to that point will require work.

[Dot Matrix]

That is the core problem that the current Windows 8 implementation of Metro exposes. This solution wouldn't be perfect on tablets and the existing Metro isn't perfect on PCs. The reality is, Microsoft should have tweaked Windows to run slightly different on tablets and desktops and not attempted to shoehorn the desktop into a tablet.

The best approach would have been toggling the current Metro experience automatically if the OS were to be running on a tablet and an experience similar to what has been posted here when run on a desktop. This has been the way device specific features have been historically implemented and it makes the most sense. You don't see the handwriting input panel on Windows 7 unless you have a touch screen, for instance.

Everyone here will endlessly argue UX enhancements and retractions, but the reality is that Microsoft isn't doing this for any reason other than hoping to get a solid foot into the tablet market. The hope is that a Metro first experience will force developers to embrace Metro in a deep fashion. Since Metro apps will work on the tablet and the desktop they'll be able to leverage the desktop in the tablet war for developer interest.

I think this is a very dangerous choice by Microsoft, but we'll see how this plays out...

No, they are not just leveraging the desktop. What they are doing is unifying platforms. Digital convergence. The idea is to be able to hop seamlessly from one device to the next, whether it be a desktop, laptop, tablet, convertible, or phone. You're ignoring the bigger picture - There's a method to Microsoft's madness.

Windows 8 is also intending to be device neutral. It doesn't favor one device over the next. It has to be with regards to all the new HID technologies appearing on the market. Microsoft can't just continue to same path with Windows, not when the market is pushing for new devices that Windows 7 just won't work with. It would be a bad business decision to continue to favor the desktop paradigm just for a vocal few.

[theyarecomingforyou]

While this sounds great in theory, it means that people who are trained in how Windows 8 works (for example, they buy a tablet and learn all the gestures) have to retool their thinking for Windows 8 on desktop ("where's the Start Screen?" "why can't I pull up the charms?"). With Windows 8 unifying Metro on all devices, they will intuitively know how to operate both environments once they are trained in one.

But the interfaces are already different. How do you bring up the charm bar on a tablet? Slide from the right. How do you bring up the charm bar on a desktop? Move the mouse to the top right or bottom right corner. How do you launch the start screen on a tablet? From the charm bar. How do you launch the start screen on a desktop? Move your mouse to the bottom left corner. Unifying them has certainly not helped consistency. Tablets and desktops but have different learning curves; it would therefore have been better to play to the strengths of each of their input methods rather than compromise the desktop experience.

The charms are more or less the same with touch as they are with mouse, so they're just as useful/useless with one as with the other - it wouldn't make any sense to base their availability on input method.

The charm bar contains:

1) Start button (not necessary)

2) Settings (duplicate of Control Panel)

3) Devices (haven't even found a use for it yet)

4) Share (could be implemented elsewhere)

5) Search (could be implemented elsewhere)

The charm bar has been shoehorned onto the desktop but simply isn't practical or efficient. The hot-corners are completely unnecessary and there was no need to actually remove the start button, which was something people were already familiar with.

[.Neo]

Everyone here will endlessly argue UX enhancements and retractions, but the reality is that Microsoft isn't doing this for any reason other than hoping to get a solid foot into the tablet market. The hope is that a Metro first experience will force developers to embrace Metro in a deep fashion. Since Metro apps will work on the tablet and the desktop they'll be able to leverage the desktop in the tablet war for developer interest.

This.