microsoft surface Surface and Metro: This party's just gettin' started.

[Ice_Blue]

WTF Courier has to do with this? It was not even officially announced to consider it a failure. :rolleyes:

But you got my drift, no?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20128013-75/the-inside-story-of-how-microsoft-killed-its-courier-tablet/

Edited June 19, 2012 by Ice_Blue

[Anthonyd]

It's not about "If you want it done right, you gotta do it yourself.". It's the fact that OEM don't have an equivalent as big as MSFT Research. There are dozen of patents inside Surface that comes out from MSFT Research.

Another advantage for MSFT is that they don't have to pay Windows licences with their products, hence they can reduce the price of the product and be a lot more competitive.

[Ice_Blue]

It's not about "If you want it done right, you gotta do it yourself.". It's the fact that OEM don't have an equivalent as big as MSFT Research. There are dozen of patents inside Surface that comes out from MSFT Research.

Another advantage for MSFT is that they don't have to pay Windows licences with their products, hence they can reduce the price of the product and be a lot more competitive.

But isn't this Microsoft's point? To set the bar?

If OEMs keep coming up with what they (MS) see as equipment that does not adequately showcase their OS, they have to do something about it.

When you buy an Apple system, you know exactly to expect. Google failed to do that for Android, and now Android is a free for all as far as the UI is concerned.

[Rickkins]

still would like to see more tablets drop below $400 or even $300, as you can buy a cheap laptop for $500 making the tablets seem less worth it for having less features

I just bought the 7" samsung tablet the other day and it's completely worth it for the price, i personally wouldn't want to spend much more on a tablet than the $249 that i did

I bought the hp touchpad 32 when they had the firesale. I have android installed on it. I almost never use it...it mostly gathers dust. Maybe I'm just not 'hip' enough, but other than a portable picture viewer, I don't see much use for mine.

[HawkMan]

I'm more leaning towards someone breaking the artificial lock placed against desktop ARM apps (perhaps only Microsoft signed binaries are allowed to run in the desktop) than an emulator. Even if you have an emulator you need to get access to the desktop for starters.

That IS an emulator though. which is part of why MS locked it down. not en efficient way to run apps to start with.

[HawkMan]

I bought the hp touchpad 32 when they had the firesale. I have android installed on it. I almost never use it...it mostly gathers dust. Maybe I'm just not 'hip' enough, but other than a portable picture viewer, I don't see much use for mine.

There's your problem

[Denis W. Veteran]

That IS an emulator though. which is part of why MS locked it down. not en efficient way to run apps to start with.

An emulator would imply translation of code (in this case, from x86 to ARM).

If it were similar to jailbreaking, that isn't emulation but rather bypassing an internal whitelist.

[Melfster]

I don't understand the Microsoft stabbing OEMs in the back bit. Many OEMs are also stabbing Microsoft in the back by making Android devices. I thinks it should be a blessing to OEMs to start shipping without crapware with their PC and putting in the time to make great PC at great price points.

[Dan~]

The Surface needs to be like ?200 if it wants to beat the iPad, if it's near the same price as the iPad why would anyone get the Surface.

By just saying the compeititon is the iPad is like admitting the iPad is superior.

I'm going to buying a tablet soon, and I am highly interested in the Surface, but it's near the same price as an iPad, I'll be going with that

[George P Global Moderator]

An emulator would imply translation of code (in this case, from x86 to ARM).

If it were similar to jailbreaking, that isn't emulation but rather bypassing an internal whitelist.

I don't think it's as simple as just jailbreaking it. I don't know exactly what they did but I think many Win32 parts haven't been ported to ARM, which is why they have WinRT. Say you can get to the point where you install some desktop app, then what? I doubt it'll even run or run good at least.

I think MS managed to get office to run on it but they probably had to do a good chunk of tweaking so it could even run.

[Denis W. Veteran]

I don't think it's as simple as just jailbreaking it. I don't know exactly what they did but I think many Win32 parts haven't been ported to ARM, which is why they have WinRT. Say you can get to the point where you install some desktop app, then what? I doubt it'll even run or run good at least.

I think MS managed to get office to run on it but they probably had to do a good chunk of tweaking so it could even run.

I'd think the entire Win32 API should be intact (the core OS apps need it anyhow), in addition to whatever runtime libraries Office RT needs. Where I can see problems with are the other runtime libraries for the rest of Windows apps written in whatever IDE or language.

I don't expect the overwhelming majority of desktop apps to be recompiled for ARM on the desktop, which is why I said above if this 'jailbreak' succeeds, only a small amount of mostly free or open source software will have ARM binaries available, for those that want them.

But then none of us will really know until later this year as we don't have copies of Windows RT to play around with, just Windows 8.

[BajiRav]

I don't think it's as simple as just jailbreaking it. I don't know exactly what they did but I think many Win32 parts haven't been ported to ARM, which is why they have WinRT. Say you can get to the point where you install some desktop app, then what? I doubt it'll even run or run good at least.

I think MS managed to get office to run on it but they probably had to do a good chunk of tweaking so it could even run.

I thought WinRT is wrapper for Win32? :/

[George P Global Moderator]

I thought WinRT is wrapper for Win32? :/

WinRT is it's own new set of APIs and Framework. You'll have to port any Win32 app over to WinRT if you want to use things like the new contracts (share, search etc).

[BajiRav]

Wow just came across this

Fanboys :s also look at the related/suggested videos on the side. This is probably work of Apple/Android fanboys. Amazing that somebody took time to pick this particular part of the presentation, uploaded to youtube and added annotations pointing out the unresponsive IE/Surface. :laugh:

[Denis W. Veteran]

Well... that's YouTube for you. Fanboys on all sides causing headaches. Try spending ten seconds in their comment sections without biting your tongue off.

[Ice_Blue]

That there is some serious Surface envy.

[HawkMan]

Wow just came across this

Fanboys :s also look at the related/suggested videos on the side. This is probably work of Apple/Android fanboys. Amazing that somebody took time to pick this particular part of the presentation, uploaded to youtube and added annotations pointing out the unresponsive IE/Surface. :laugh:

OMG, prototype hardware with a beta OS crashed...

that's what happens when your presentations use live demo instead of pre recorded videos.

[Dashel]

And to his credit, he handled it professionally.

[George P Global Moderator]

Another thing to note is that with the new WP8 stuff they showed today having one plus a Win8 tablet makes for some very interesting stuff. Anyone worrying about Win8's app store not being much (on the metro side) should think again. They just made every WP7 and future WP8 developer a Win8 developer and vice versa today.

[redfish]

Would be nice if you could stand up the keyboard a little also, but that would probably make it a fragile design

[.Neo]

Fanboys :s also look at the related/suggested videos on the side. This is probably work of Apple/Android fanboys. Amazing that somebody took time to pick this particular part of the presentation, uploaded to youtube and added annotations pointing out the unresponsive IE/Surface. :laugh:

You can't deny with a straight face it's funny Internet Explorer 10 completely failed on him and the device becoming unresponsive altogether just as he was saying "I can browse smoothly". If you don't see the humor in that I'm pretty sure you're a fanboy yourself. ;)

[Dot Matrix]

Wow just came across this

Fanboys :s also look at the related/suggested videos on the side. This is probably work of Apple/Android fanboys. Amazing that somebody took time to pick this particular part of the presentation, uploaded to youtube and added annotations pointing out the unresponsive IE/Surface. :laugh:

Happens to everyone. :laugh:

[.Neo]

See how Steve made a joke about it, acknowledging the issue?

Love it when things go wrong in these kinds of presentations. :laugh:

[PGHammer]

I don't understand the Microsoft stabbing OEMs in the back bit. Many OEMs are also stabbing Microsoft in the back by making Android devices. I thinks it should be a blessing to OEMs to start shipping without crapware with their PC and putting in the time to make great PC at great price points.

I was referring to what Apple did (killing legal Mac clones en-masse to save itself) and then having the unmitigated "gall" to say that they did nothing wrong.

Microsoft HAS had disputes with OEM partners (small to giant economy size) and have even found itself competing against them heads-up (IBM, anyone?); however, Microsoft never did an Apple to *any* of them - let alone all of them.

OEMs use "bloatware"/"crapware" to defray costs and inflate profit margins.

In the tablet space, the benchmark is the iPad for one reason - that is what the consumers *themselves* are saying. The iPad is the benchmark today for reasons of both fit/finish (far better than any Android tablet) and the apps. (While I have some hands-on with the iPad2, I personally would not buy one, as it doesn't fit my use metrics and costs too much - I have zero respect for Android tablets, either, as they don't have the *productivity apps" I would need.) The Surface RT attacks the current-generation iPad on both fronts - fit/finish and (with WinRT) apps. Right now, the iPad is the iPhone of the tablet space - the high-quality fit/finish and app commonality with the iPhone are major pluses. What will save the Surface RT are more RT apps - period.

The Surface Pro is what has my interest, as it is an Ultrabook (which DOES fit both my use metrics AND has that Win32 application compatibility that I have to have), is at least as high-quality fit/finish as the MacBook Air, and costs less than the same-screen-size MacBook Air.

[Growled Member]

My wife took one look at the Surface tablet and said she had to have one when it came out. My wife is about as anti-tech as they come. If she thinks they are cool devices, MS is on to something.