official Windows Phone Summit 20-June-2012

[BajiRav]

I found this funny :laugh:

[George P Global Moderator]

Realistically speaking, what difference will 1,5 month make in the terms of competitors copying things? Probably not a thing. ~Johnny's point still stands, Microsoft could have just waited with the presentation or release the SDK now.

I dunno, maybe 1.5 months isn't enough time or maybe it is or maybe they wanted to just drum up the talk now? I think showing the new start screen and laying the foundation for the platform will grab enough attention that people will talk about this till the next event. And honestly, the SDK will be mostly the Windows 8 SDK. If a dev is now interested in WP8 coding and they're not doing Win8 yet they should start with that now.

The thing I took away from them repeating the "shared core/code" line over and over is that they are pushing for devs to make apps for both WP8 and Win8 together.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

The split update makes it really hard for me to get excited about Windows Phone 8. I strongly feel they went down the wrong path on this one...

[Melfster]

I thought they said the sdk will come out in Summer? What I don't get is will I need Windows 8 to develop for Windows Phone since the next version of Visual Studio runs only in Windows 8?

[jakem1]

The split update makes it really hard for me to get excited about Windows Phone 8. I strongly feel they went down the wrong path on this one...

I don't see much difference between this and the Mango update. I have an Omnia 7 which (as a first gen device) doesn't include a gyroscope. Mango included support for gyroscopes (and recent apps such as Photosynth make use of this sensor) but my phone doesn't include the improved sensor functionality.

I am ready to update to a newer phone anyway so I don't mind that my current phone won't get WP8. However, I think you should wait to see what features make it through to WP7.8 before getting upset about the update path that's available to you. You might find that the division between the two versions makes more sense (as per my example above) when it's clear which features are hardware dependant and which aren't.

[George P Global Moderator]

I thought they said the sdk will come out in Summer? What I don't get is will I need Windows 8 to develop for Windows Phone since the next version of Visual Studio runs only in Windows 8?

Wait, hold on, where does it say that VS 2012 only runs on Windows 8? This is the first time I've heard that.

[Anthonyd]

Wait, hold on, where does it say that VS 2012 only runs on Windows 8? This is the first time I've heard that.

It's BS, VS2012 runs on Windows 7 : http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/11/en-us/products/compatibility

[Melfster]

Wait, hold on, where does it say that VS 2012 only runs on Windows 8? This is the first time I've heard that.

What I meant was Visual Studio 2012 Metro apps would only be able to run on Windows 8. I don't know how going to be able build Metro apps in windows 7 and then have them work in Windows 8 or windows phone 8.

[George P Global Moderator]

What I meant was Visual Studio 2012 Metro apps would only be able to run on Windows 8. I don't know how going to be able build Metro apps in windows 7 and then have them work in Windows 8 or windows phone 8.

There's an emulator for that though.

[Melfster]

There's an emulator for that though.

Huh? So you have emulator for windows 8 that's able to run on Windows 7 crazy.

[Anthonyd]

There's an emulator for that though.

The emulator emulates your current Windows session inside a slate, I don't think it will run on Windows 7 ;)

[George P Global Moderator]

The emulator emulates your current Windows session inside a slate, I don't think it will run on Windows 7 ;)

I dunno, but the WP8 emulator should work regardless. Still you'll need Win8 to test your WinRT app anyways, be it in a VM or a real install, like a dual boot. Point is, you can still code on VS 2012 inside Win7 and then test the app on Win8 later.

[Anthonyd]

I dunno, but the WP8 emulator should work regardless. Still you'll need Win8 to test your WinRT app anyways, be it in a VM or a real install, like a dual boot. Point is, you can still code on VS 2012 inside Win7 and then test the app on Win8 later.

If the emulator is using components from the OS that are only part of Windows 8 then no, it won't work on Windows 7.

Also, you can't create Metro apps on Windows 7, did you read the link I have posted to you earlier?

[BajiRav]

I am re-watching the summit video (parts I missed) and going over the new start screen makes me wonder what Microsoft plans to do with notification system or rather if they need to do anything at all. If you put small tiles in first 2-3 rows, that's pretty much notification center?

I personally don't feel lack of notification center is a major letdown as the live tiles work for me most of the time but it is universally agreed that Android has the best system and many people might prefer it to live tiles.

[George P Global Moderator]

I am re-watching the summit video (parts I missed) and going over the new start screen makes me wonder what Microsoft plans to do with notification system or rather if they need to do anything at all. If you put small tiles in first 2-3 rows, that's pretty much notification center?

I personally don't feel lack of notification center is a major letdown as the live tiles work for me most of the time but it is universally agreed that Android has the best system and many people might prefer it to live tiles.

They are doing something with notifications, but we don't have any details. The people who know aren't saying but do say that MS has something in the works in that area. We'll have to wait and see.

[Cereal Bawks]

Huh? So you have emulator for windows 8 that's able to run on Windows 7 crazy.

No you don't.

They've said the emulator is Hyper-V based. Windows 7 client doesn't support running as Hyper-V host system (well, it does, but it's just another license based software limitation). So that pretty much implies Windows 8 as development system.

[andrewbares]

I am re-watching the summit video (parts I missed) and going over the new start screen makes me wonder what Microsoft plans to do with notification system or rather if they need to do anything at all. If you put small tiles in first 2-3 rows, that's pretty much notification center?

I personally don't feel lack of notification center is a major letdown as the live tiles work for me most of the time but it is universally agreed that Android has the best system and many people might prefer it to live tiles.

There was nothing on the notification center and when I talked to a MS employee after the event, he seemed to think "Wait what we have no isn't good enough? Seriously?" So it sounds like nothing new is coming :/

It's ridiculous to expect everyone to pin EVERYTHING to their start screen just so they don't miss notifications.

Plus, not all apps will even use live tiles. And as a developer, I've found a few instances where the live tile push update doesn't come through but the toast notification always does... thus making the live tiles useless as a notification tracker.

[jakem1]

Personally I don't see any need for a notification centre. Thy can add one if they want but I think the Start screen does the job well, especially with the new live tile behaviour demoed yesterday.

[downhillrider]

There needs to be a notification center. with my iPhone I hear it go off, Ap news flash, txt msg etc. When I'm ready to take a look I just have to hit the button and look. When my WP goes off, if I don't check it right away I have to open the phone to find out what went off. Twitter, AP etc. You should be able to check out what your phone is telling you without opening it. If MS doesn't then the jailbreakers will come up with one and that's a road MS doesn't want to go down.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

I don't see much difference between this and the Mango update. I have an Omnia 7 which (as a first gen device) doesn't include a gyroscope. Mango included support for gyroscopes (and recent apps such as Photosynth make use of this sensor) but my phone doesn't include the improved sensor functionality.

I am ready to update to a newer phone anyway so I don't mind that my current phone won't get WP8. However, I think you should wait to see what features make it through to WP7.8 before getting upset about the update path that's available to you. You might find that the division between the two versions makes more sense (as per my example above) when it's clear which features are hardware dependant and which aren't.

As a developer, this split is horrible news for current device owners and this is why I'm so against it. You'll need to target your application to either Mango (7.1) or 8 causing you to have to pick the version beforehand. This is a lot different than having a check in code to see if the user has a gyroscope if you're building an app that needs that functionality...

In reality it means that you'll want to target basic apps to 7.1 and let compatibility pull it up to 8 otherwise you'll kill the ability to sell it to every user with a current phone. This means you'll be forced to give WP8 users a lower quality experience unless you build and maintain two separate versions of the same app (and no developer loves maintaining more versions...). Sadly, since the platform is new and MS is pushing Windows 8 portability so hard many developers will opt to target WP8 primarily. This will leave users of WP7.8 with a shrinking app store...

This could have been prevented if they made 8 run on all the phones and just disabled features that weren't supported, such as NFC, Dual Core support, and others. At least in this case developers would still be coding to one OS... This is what Makes iOS such a major attractor of developer interest.

The reason this has happened is we're witnessing MS reboot Windows Mobile again... The chasm was fine the first time, but I'm not sure it will be this time.

[Dot Matrix]

So, now I'm hearing the only SOME WP7 devices are getting the 7.8 update. This mess just keeps getting bigger.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

So, now I'm hearing the only SOME WP7 devices are getting the 7.8 update. This mess just keeps getting bigger.

Link to a source. This isn't shaping up in a way that makes me happy.

[Detection]

Nokia Confirms All Lumia Devices Getting Windows Phone 7.8 Update In ?Coming Weeks?

http://www.wingadget...e-coming-weeks/

UPDATE: Jason from Nokia here ? Just a clarification: the update that?s appearing in the coming weeks brings Wi-Fi sharing and flip-to-silence. The start screen update is TDB.

TDB? To De Becided ?

[Dot Matrix]

Link to a source. This isn't shaping up in a way that makes me happy.

Woops, forgot the source, thanks! http://www.liveside....xisting-phones/

This is killing the viability of the WP platform. AT&T users don't even have the damn keyboard fix yet.

[xeleraph]

As a developer, this split is horrible news for current device owners and this is why I'm so against it. You'll need to target your application to either Mango (7.1) or 8 causing you to have to pick the version beforehand. This is a lot different than having a check in code to see if the user has a gyroscope if you're building an app that needs that functionality...

In reality it means that you'll want to target basic apps to 7.1 and let compatibility pull it up to 8 otherwise you'll kill the ability to sell it to every user with a current phone. This means you'll be forced to give WP8 users a lower quality experience unless you build and maintain two separate versions of the same app (and no developer loves maintaining more versions...). Sadly, since the platform is new and MS is pushing Windows 8 portability so hard many developers will opt to target WP8 primarily. This will leave users of WP7.8 with a shrinking app store...

This could have been prevented if they made 8 run on all the phones and just disabled features that weren't supported, such as NFC, Dual Core support, and others. At least in this case developers would still be coding to one OS... This is what Makes iOS such a major attractor of developer interest.

The reason this has happened is we're witnessing MS reboot Windows Mobile again... The chasm was fine the first time, but I'm not sure it will be this time.

Quoted for truth. A lot of people don't understand this. First, WP7 will not run WP8 apps. Second, WP7 is not part of the "shared core" ecosystem that Joe Belfiore touted so heavily. Third, there's no hardware limitations preventing the WP8 kernel from running on current devices, unless Microsoft is trying to say that the new kernel is so poorly-engineered compared to Android and iOS that it simply cannot run on a single-core chipset.

So much for "Windows Phone does not need dual core", or "the smartphone beta test is over"...