jwjw1 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 According to Stephens, the woman "embraced the officer from behind, causing the holstered weapon to accidently discharge." The bullet punctured Miller's lung and hit her heart, and she died at a hospital. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/08/detroit-woman-killed-when-hug-triggers-officer-gun-police-say/ ...so most likely a shoulder-holster andrewbares 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted July 9, 2012 MVC Share Posted July 9, 2012 ...so most likely a shoulder-holster That is the stupidest design i've ever seen. So if your gun discharges it shoots the person behind you? WTF? it should be aiming at the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 ...so most likely a shoulder-holster Article said waistband holster & under his shirt. Maybe she stumbled and was kneeling or on the floor when it went off? Whatever, this sounds more and more like a perfect storm of accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Bloo Monkee Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 One more reason why people should not be carrying these KILLER WEAPONS. lol @ DocM's sig promoting the use of killer weapons. Disgusting. dr_crabman 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 So, a cop shouldn't have one (as in this case)? As for my sig - some are for target, some for hunting and others to protect myself and my family. Different tools for different jobs. A carpenter has lots of chisels, each for a given task, and each could kill you just as dead as any bullet. Deal with it. Brandon H, WAQT, andrewbares and 1 other 4 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killer2239 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 First off this is a terrible incident to hear about. I hope the officer and family are able to cope and move on from this tragedy. There are way to many unanswered questions in this article to even begin saying who is more at fault. Questions like, What type of holster and did it block access to the trigger, were either of them drunk, did she tug his waist, or upper sides (due to which type of holster). There are other questions I know I am missing here. Either way, we need a lot more info to help us come to a conclusion before everyone gets into a debate. One more reason why people should not be carrying these KILLER WEAPONS. lol @ DocM's sig promoting the use of killer weapons. Disgusting. Driving a car is operating a killer weapon. Lets just stop everything that can kill someone. --- Continued after next quote. I think we have different definitions of "good" when we're talking about a design flaw that has proven to be fatal. Simply adding a warning to the instruction manual is not acceptable. Then again, when you have a nation obsessed with firearms and their supply is so widespread these things will inevitably happen. I have to disagree with you some here. It is the owners responsibility to know his weapon. Yes, there are defects or design flaws found that hopefully the manufacture corrects. As well as markets their flaw or defects so that the owners can easily hear about this. As said before, we do not know the entire story, and this could be an incident where yes that design flaw caused this, maybe he did or did not know about this flaw. I agree it should not have happened, but its called an accident for a reason, and accidents happen everyday. We could find out that the girl who grabbed him did in fact somehow pull the trigger and caused this herself. Until we have more info we do not know. I am friends with several cops, who always carry off-duty. They are prepared to be on-duty at any given time if needed. I support cops being prepared to do their job. Going to stop here, I can already tell this thread is easily going to turn into a "This is why we need to ban guns" and "Its our right to carry". I personally have my conceal license and support guns, at least in the sense of good people having them. andrewbares 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srbeen Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 There's no such thing as accidents with guns. Their purpose is to wound/kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Of course there are accidents with guns. That's just a silly statement. Some guns are mare just for paper punching. As for wounding or killing - damned right if someone busts into this house at 3 AM with ill intent. By the time cops get here it's all over one way or the other, and we have no intention of losing that contest. And sometimes sh*t just happens and there's an accident. This was with a firearm, tomorrow it could be a toaster with a short circuit or a car with a broken steering part. andrewbares 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenMartian Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 "Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just..." Bang! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Bloo Monkee Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 DocM an innocent woman died in this artcicle, I don't need to show you any proof that guns kill people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So, a cop shouldn't have one (as in this case)? As for my sig - some are for target, some for hunting and others to protect myself and my family. Different tools for different jobs. A carpenter has lots of chisels, each for a given task, and each could kill you just as dead as any bullet. Deal with it. Except a carpenter's tools aren't designed with one explicit goal: to kill things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacer Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Sounds like a incredibly huge design flaw if the gun can be "stage triggered" or whatever it's called which leaves it in an extremely volatile state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Lyle Global Moderator Posted July 9, 2012 Global Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2012 Kill'em with kindness...... #YYEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killer2239 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 DocM an innocent woman died in this artcicle, I don't need to show you any proof that guns kill people. And I can find you thousands of articles to show you that Cars, Motorcycles, Knives and even string/rope/hoses that kill more people everyday. Does that mean we need to get rid of all those things? Guns are meant for protection and hunting. Its the fact that we have so many people with bad intentions that we have to use them for protection. andrewbares 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason S. Global Moderator Posted July 9, 2012 Global Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm having trouble visualizing it too, but it could have hit the femoral artery in her leg and she bled out. A .40 tactical round (HST, Ranger, Golden Sabre etc.) can shread things pretty badly. It's also possible a round like the HST hitting in the upper thigh or pelvis could set up a massive shockwave that would create a water-hammer like effect in the circulatory system that caused brain damage due to bursting small blood vessels - a hydrostatic shock. This has been demonstrated in animal tests and at autopsy. this is what i was envisioning - the femoral artery. what a sad story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 We don't really know her body position when it discharged. If upright the femoral artery is most likely, but if she fell and grabbed at him on the way down it could have hit anywhere. Whatever, a sad situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan R. Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 DocM an innocent woman died in this artcicle, I don't need to show you any proof that guns kill people. I'm so glad you're here to tell us someone died. Except a carpenter's tools aren't designed with one explicit goal: to kill things. Did you come up with that all by yourself? Surely not. Unfortunately when you saw this argument, you did not see the likely rebuttal: it's not true. Guns aren't only made to "kill". There are plenty of firearms that are solely meant for recreation. In this scenario, the gun is one of law enforcement, and I am not so knee-jerky to say because of an accident we should disarm our police. Besides, since when do we ever only use a tool as it's intended? I'm sure plenty of people have been murdered with carpenter tools. Accident: mishap: an unplanned and unfortunate event that results in damage, injury, or upset of some kind. andrewbares 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The stats on gun crime in America pretty much prove my point. Mexico, Argentina, and South Africa are the only countries in the world with higher rates of gun crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Bloo Monkee Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm so glad you're here to tell us someone died. If you had bothered to read the previous page (which you didn't) you would have known why that was written. But you didn't, so instead all you did was make yourself look like an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan R. Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The stats on gun crime in America pretty much prove my point. Mexico, Argentina, and South Africa are the only countries in the world with higher rates of gun crime. I'm glad you brought that up. That's an excellent reason to push harder restrictions on gun ownership and more education on proper handling. It's important to note that typical gun crime isn't what happened here. If you had bothered to read the previous page (which you didn't) you would have known why that was written. But you didn't, so instead all you did was make yourself look like an idiot. The point I was making is that I could just as rightly tell you that we don't have to show you proof that guns don't kill people. You see, not all guns kill and not all deaths are from guns - a very pointless thing to say indeed. andrewbares 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerowen Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If you had bothered to read the previous page (which you didn't) you would have known why that was written. But you didn't, so instead all you did was make yourself look like an idiot. I think your intentions are clear in this topic, you're playing the usual story of "guns kill". That's kind of obvious, that is their entire purpose, whether it's to kill paper targets, wild game, or people, the purpose of firearms is to launch pieces of metal at high velocities toward an intended target. In this case it is tragic that an accidental discharge lead to the death of an innocent woman, but from what I've seen of the story so far, there was no ill intent from the off-duty officer. Firearms are an effective method of self defense, and level the playing field across gender, body type, and race. I'm a 5'10" white male, 173 pounds. If a muscular 6+' robber breaks into my house in the middle of the night, I'm not stupid enough to try and fight with him; who knows what kind of drugs he may be on, what kind of training he's had and how hard his punches can land. I'll reach under my pillow and pull out my pistol and blow his ass away, body size be damned. I read about a man in Florida several months ago who was tied to a chair and had to watch his wife and family get raped and murdered, because he didn't have the means to defend himself or his family. I will not be that guy. I'm a war veteran and have seen the good, and bad, that can come from firearms, and have come to the conclusion that a responsible and educated citizen with a firearm is much better off than somebody who doesn't carry. I'm not asking you to go out and buy a gun and start carrying, but I get a little tired of people like you trying to lay the blame on the weapons themselves. I'll leave you with a couple of quotes that I think are relevant to this. "God created all men equal. Samuel Colt keeps them that way." -- Samuel Colt "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Twiddle, andrewbares, Bryan R. and 1 other 4 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killer2239 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Well said Gerowen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewbares Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm a 5'10" white male, 173 pounds. If a muscular 6+' robber breaks into my house in the middle of the night... Great post. I'm the same height and only 130 pounds.... If someone broke into my house I'd basically be screwed. I'm looking forward to when I can buy a gun in 2 years. Now if I'm out on the street and get attacked, I know I can run faster than most people and would be able to get away. Oh and the title of this thread made me at first think this was a sexual reference... his "gun" goes off when she hugged him. Too bad it was actually sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Angel Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Funny, I'm pretty weak in fact my 17 year old sister could probably beat me up, and I've never been in a single situation where I have felt a gun was a necessity for me to keep myself safe. Alera 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeTobacco Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Funny, I'm pretty weak in fact my 17 year old sister could probably beat me up, and I've never been in a single situation where I have felt a gun was a necessity for me to keep myself safe. Which is why you don't understand why some people have them. And until you've experience a situation with the need, you won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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