Woman hugs off-duty cop, his gun goes off and....

[Bryan R.]

Actually, I regularly see people who opposes tax increases to fund police or gun restrictions that take away some of their liberties. And a lot of states seems to be further softening their firearms restrictions, even going as far as to allow concealed weapons on college campuses.

It might seem like common sense but it's far from universally supported.

Me saying you won't find anyone is too general, yes. The details in finding the funds and which regulations and where is where the real debate is..

[DocM]

Me saying you won't find anyone is too general, yes. The details in finding the funds and which regulations and where is where the real debate is..

Also this Gallup poll from last fall - vanishing support for a US pistol ban -

[DocM]

I feel for the parents, but her being on her knees is the only plausible answer if the trajectory angle was downward.

Otherwise the officer would have had to be on a ladder.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120710/NEWS01/120710037/Police-officer-gun-holstered-Adaisha-Miller?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Adaisha Miller was on her knees while dancing behind an off-duty Detroit police officer early Sunday when his holstered gun fired, striking her in the chest, a police official familiar with the investigation told the Free Press today.

The official said that explains how Miller was shot in the chest while dancing behind Officer Isaac Parrish during a fish fry early Sunday at his home on Archdale.

The official said the angle of the gunshot is possible because Miller was not standing and described it as some type of "exotic dance" where Miller, 24, was tugging at Parrish?s waist.

Miller?s family members strongly disputed that account today.

?That?s just not plausible,? said Yolanda McNair, Miller?s mother.

McNair said she was told by witnesses at the hospital that her daughter and Parrish were side by side and she got a birthday hug from Parrish when the gun went off. Miller, who would have been 25 on Monday, was celebrating her birthday over the weekend and went to the party with two friends, relatives said. The Free Press has been unable to reach her friends for comment.

McNair said a doctor told her a bullet went into Miller?s lung and hit her heart.

?If she was on her knees, she would have got hit in the head,? McNair said.

McNair also questioned why Miller would be on her knees dancing with a stranger since she and Parrish didn?t know each other. She also questioned how someone dances on their knees.

?We deserve the truth,? McNair said. ?We can?t get her back.?

Eddie Miller, Adaisha Miller?s father, said the family is hearing different accounts of what happened at the party.

?I?m not going to say how she got shot because we don?t know,? he said. ?We?re trying to get some answers. That?s all were trying to do.?

Adaisha Miller?s mother said she hasn?t heard from police since they told her on Sunday that they were investigating her daughter?s death.

Parrish, a 16-year veteran of the force, has been placed on administrative restricted duty. No one answered the door at his home on the city?s west side today.

Police say preliminary findings show the shooting appears to be an accident, and Parrish did not touch his gun, which was in a soft holster on the right side of his waist.

It is optional for Detroit police officers to carry their weapons while off-duty.

The official said police did not give Parrish a Breathalyzer, but alcohol does not appear to be a factor. The source added there was no odor of intoxicants, the officer's speech was not slurred and he took a field sobriety test.

According to department policy, "off-duty officers are prohibited by state law from carrying a firearm if their blood alcohol level is 0.02% or above."

It's unclear whether Miller had been drinking when the shooting occurred about 12:30 a.m. Sunday.

The early investigation shows the holster Parrish was using may have allowed the trigger of his gun to be "manipulated" while the Smith & Wesson M&P 40 was stored.

Detroit Police Chief Ralph Godbee Jr. said at a news conference Monday that the department does not have a policy regarding what holsters off-duty officers should use. Also, he said the department-issued gun didn?t have an external safety, but it had one in the trigger.

In most incidents, he said, a weapon "does not go off without the trigger being engaged in some manner."

[Guest nicconics]

quick, ban guns so that hugs don't kill!

[Vykranth]

So you are admitting to actually having no point at all. Gun control doesn't lower violent crimes then is what you just said, hence, you have no point. You just admitted to arguing that nobody should have the right to defend themselves. Good job on being sheep that willingly will die just because your government made a law saying you are not allowed to defend yourself.

Two years ago I caught a guy trying to break into my house via the back door. He was going door to door seeing if people were home. I was in the shower when he knocked on my front door so he figured nobody was home. He had a knife out when he was trying to break down my back door. He didn't stop trying to break it down when I stood on the other side and saw me. He didn't stop until I grabbed my pistol from a kitchen cabinet where I keep one hidden, at which point he promptly turned around and ran away. You are right. I should have no had that gun. I should have let him break into my house and stab me because his right to live and murder is greater than my right to defend myself and live.

Good thing Europe has those laws that ban the carrying of firearms while dancing huh? :rolleyes: Do you even attempt to think of arguements in context or do you just enjoy arguing non existant points? Lets use a bit of common sense shall we and at least pretend we are not little children trying to win an arguement just for the sake of winning? Use some logic please.

I had to re-read my previous post to try to figure how one would come to that conclusion.

Anyway, you want some logic? What about facts?

- First, the US society is plagued by a high crime rate among other western countries

- One solution that has been proposed is to have the citizens arm themselves

- I do not like this idea because

- this reeks of the Mutually Assured Doctrine: something that was common during the Cold War regarding nuclear weapons

- this is not really a sign of an healthy society but a sign of a society where people live in fear of each other

- as demonstrated by the initial story, tragic accidents do happen but that is not the only one

- Boy, 8, accidentally kills self at gun show

- 'Tragic accident': Pastor's daughter shot at church

- Gun safety class backfires: Man shoots self and wife

- Boy, 3, kills self with gun inside car

- Cops: Navy SEAL accidentally shoots self in head

- 8-year-old girl critically wounded in Washington state school

- Cop's 3-year-old son shot at home with handgun

(Before the remark is made, yes, all these links come from MSNBC because, after finding 7 links, I was too tired to continue to CNN or FoxNews)

- Xenosion said that the crime rate in the US is decreasing and he is right, the FBI data shows a steady decrease

- Xenosion argues that the decrease in crimes is linked to the increase of concealed permits and people carrying guns

- I contest that statement: I am saying that there are other explanaitions:

- First article: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0524/US-crime-rate-is-down-six-key-reasons

- Second article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html?_r=1

- Third article: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUnderstandingWhyCrime2004.pdf

- Fourth article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/21/america-serious-crime-rate-plunging

- Furthermore, I am arguing that the escalade of arming citizens is not a good idea: in your previous post, ILikeTobacco, you said that the burglar ran away the moment he saw you with a gun. Ok, what if he had a gun too and he used it? Escalade goes both ways. It is a question of will and I would say that criminals are determined enough to go to even more extremist behaviors.

- After that, the question of right to defend yourself. It is a version of the right to security. Its other side is the right to be protected. Me, I prefer to have the latter version: I trust the police forces. May be it is because the rare times I have been involved with them, they have been extremely fast and reliable.

I know that DocM is going to post that he had to do three citizens arrests including one where the life of a 16 y/o girl was at risk of being assaulted. This is a commendable display of courage but it is rather concerning that police could not have assured that job.

http://www.dailymail...t-accident.html

Interesting find, very interesting find except that this might not be a simple accident but a murder ...

Here is a quote from the BBC Crimewatch web page http://www.bbc.co.uk/crimewatch/appeals/2012/01/charlie_wright_murder.shtml

Detectives investigating the murder of a 17-year-old carpentry student are appealing for information into his death.

Charlie Wright was shot in the face with a shotgun in the early hours of Friday 23 April, 2010, as he stood outside a house in Greenwich.

Police are appealing for help in catching his killer and are offering a ?20,000 reward for information leading to a conviction.

Charlie, from Eltham, was outside a house in Park Mews, Calvert Road, SE10, at around 2:05am on Friday 23 April, 2010, when the shooting took place.

Shortly afterwards, witnesses reported seeing a group of four to five young black men running from Park Mews, where the attack happened, towards Woolwich Road.

Sorry but this is not an accident of someone in Europe who carries a gun for his own safety in day-to-day activities that should not require a gun: dancing, browsing the bookstore, shopping for groceries, going to the golf course, ordering a meal at a McDonalds drive-thru ...

[DocM]

I know 2 people who were killed by gangsta's while shopping etc., just so they could 'make their bones.' With a firearm at least one might have had a chance.

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

:laugh:

[Noir Angel]

The US is a nation with an obsession with guns and violence, of course they're not going to vote yay for gun restrictions. That would be like casting a poll saying that 95% of al qaeda members liked 9/11 and then pushing that as proof that their agendas are worth pursuing.

Almost all evidence available suggests that the US, it's liberal gun laws, and the attitude of it's citizens causes a lot more crime than it helps resolve.

[andrewbares]

Almost all evidence available suggests that the US, it's liberal gun laws, and the attitude of it's citizens causes a lot more crime than it helps resolve.

Show us some actual evidence saying that liberal gun laws cause more crime.

I want to own a gun and I am NEVER going to commit a crime. I would step in a stop a robery though!

Remember that correlation != causation. You don't seem to realize that.

[Growled Member]

Crap happens sometimes for various reasons. Not sure why people have such a hard time accepting that. All the laws in the world ain't gonna solve everything.

[Vykranth]

I know 2 people who were killed by gangsta's while shopping etc., just so they could 'make their bones.' With a firearm at least one might have had a chance.

May be or it could have ended in a complete bloodbath with lost bullets killing bystanders.

How can one predict the outcome of a stand-off when guns are drawn? I would assume that the person who drew the gun intends to use it.

On the prevention side, IBM is trying to build services around data mining to analyze patterns in crimes and help police forces respond more efficiently.

Apparently, several cities in the US are participating. Does it help making the police do the job? Does it prevent crimes? It might be too early to tell but this is an interesting development.

If it helps reduce crimes, that is good.

More info there: http://www.ibm.com/smarterplanet/us/en/public_safety/ideas/

Crap happens sometimes for various reasons. Not sure why people have such a hard time accepting that. All the laws in the world ain't gonna solve everything.

So much fatalism ...

[DocM]

IBM or not, police can't respond in real time until a witness or victim calls or a body is found. As for fatalism - more like realism. Take off the rose colored glasses. The jungle is living large - but the trees are now concrete, wood and steel. Darwin rules.

[Vykranth]

IBM or not, police can't respond in real time until a witness or victim calls or a body is found.

I am going to continue my long-withstanding policy of begin extremely lazy and find some factual information that I am going to quote below ...

So, from http://www.ibm.com/s...c_safety/ideas/ and a link there http://www-01.ibm.co...fault&cty=en_us

about the city of Memphis

THE COMPANY

The Memphis Police Department (MPD), located in Memphis, TN, was first established in 1827 when it appointed its first town constable. Today, with more than 3500 officers, MPD has been recognized for its efforts to improve the quality and standard of living for its citizens through the use of technology and training facilities.

THE CHALLENGE

In 2004 and 2005, the MPD was experiencing a sharp increase in crime. The FBI?s 2005 report on crime within the United States showed that violent crimes on a national level increased 2.3 percent from 2004 to 2005, and in Memphis, that increase was 2.5 percent. MPD recognized it needed to move beyond traditional policing approaches. It needed:

• A way to respond faster to unfolding crime. With the time-consuming process
  of searching through an array of spreadsheets and paper files, officers were
  spending several hours looking for information vital to solving or preventing
  crimes instead of responding faster.
  
• Innovative, new practices to predict, track, and respond promptly to crimes
  committed.
  
• A way to cost-efficiently upgrade its resources, utilize funds in the most
  effective way, and increase the overall effectiveness of the department.
  

THE STRATEGY

In 2005, Memphis Police Department partnered with the Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice at The University of Memphis to create a predictive analytics system called Blue CRUSH (Criminal Reduction Utilizing Statistical History). It selected IBM SPSS predictive analytics software to support Blue CRUSH for two main reasons:

• MPD had a long-standing relationship with the university and Professor W. Richard Janikowski, director of the university?s Center for Community Criminology and Research. The university had been using IBM SPSS for many years to evaluate crime-related and other data, and MPD could take advantage of the university?s experience and expertise with the software.
  

• IBM SPSS could easily integrate with other solutions, allowing MPD to create a customized application that best met its overall needs. Blue CRUSH was able to integrate IBM SPSS and a geographic information systems tool to both analyze and visualize data in the form of charts, geographical maps, and reports.
  

After extensive training of civilian personnel and field officers by MPD and the University of Memphis, Blue CRUSH was deployed in August 2005 within select precincts before going citywide.

KEY BENEFIT AREAS

The analytical and statistical capabilities available to the MPD through the use of IBM SPSS has allowed it to identify, target, and better respond to crime. Key benefits of the project include:

• Increased overall visibility into crime activity. MPD has the capability to evaluate ?incident patterns? throughout the city based on previous and current crime patterns that are analyzed and updated continually. This has allowed the department to identify crime ?hot spots,? the type of offenses committed in these zones along with the time of day or day of the week they occurred, and offender characteristics.
  

• Improved communication. With the use of IBM SPSS, MPD is able to share information with government agencies or other law enforcement agencies to aid in the proper prosecution of criminals. It also enables MPD to communicate with the media and local communities about offenders and specific ?hot spot? areas to better assist in the prevention and overall decline of criminal activity through neighborhood watch initiatives and other strategies.
  

• Increased overall productivity. With information readily available, officers no longer need to spend valuable time looking for reports or information pertaining to a crime. As a result, MPD has seen a reduction in violent crime, property crime, and part 1 crimes (which include violent and property crimes) by an average of 15.8 percent without a corresponding increase in officers ? while expanding its overall geographical coverage.
  

It might not be the ultimate solution but apparently it is rather efficient

And, as an added bonus, videos!

First, the Memphis police officers

Then, the IBM people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FEKGRf3mLo

Finally, the IBM commercial that goes with it .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZyU6po_E74

As for fatalism - more like realism. Take off the rose colored glasses. The jungle is living large - but the trees are now concrete, wood and steel. Darwin rules.

And hopefully, police is getting better at the game ...

[DocM]

Add to your calculus that in 2007 Tennesse passed both the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws - making it much, much riskier for criminals to do home invasions, burglaries, muggings and other violent crimes - they could well be turned into Swiss cheese.

See previously posted Robert A. Heinlein quote.