What do you expect (not hope) to see in Windows 9?

[scaramonga]

It will take until Windows 11 to get rid of all this crap, unfortunately, I'll be dead by then :)

[Dashel]

None of that addresses the repeatedly false statement that Win8 doesn't force full screen searches. Per your other points:

-More results is rarely a plus when you are searching. If your search doesn't fit in the Win7 Start search, you generally haven't narrowed enough, or you can simply hit enter to continue in Windows Explorer

-Per filtering, Win7 shows more items by default. It shows files, apps, and settings in groups without further steps.

-Here is a crazy example, say I'm in my email and need to search for an obtuse file name I had filed away. Now I need to either make a mental note or copy/paste while before I could type while I looked until it narrowed the search, zomgz, two things at once.

Suggested search is the big new thing (for files), not that you guys point that out since its obviously 'just better' regardless.

[scaramonga]

None of that addresses the repeatedly false statement that Win8 doesn't force full screen searches. Per your other points:

-More results is rarely a plus when you are searching. If your search doesn't fit in the Win7 Start search, you generally haven't narrowed enough, or you can simply hit enter to continue in Windows Explorer

-Per filtering, Win7 shows more items by default. It shows files, apps, and settings in groups without further steps.

-Here is a crazy example, say I'm in my email and need to search for an obtuse file name I had filed away. Now I need to either make a mental note or copy/paste while before I could type while I looked until it narrowed the search, zomgz, two things at once.

Suggested search is the big new thing (for files), not that you guys point that out since its obviously 'just better' regardless.

Search is the first thing I disable in Win7, always, hell I have terabytes of stuff, but always know where everything is, if you organize it correctly in first place ;) Why would I ever have to 'search' for anything? Waste of time is 'search', and a complete system hog, never ever found it useful.

[Dashel]

Oh, no general argument there scara. I primarily use it for app launching, not file searching (since I have adapted to not having a four way system anymore) - which is supported my MS's numbers (and why the new search offers little for most searches - at least until people collect tons of Metro apps like they do on iOS or Droid - which I don't really see happening either). Hierarchy and search both have their places and are best when they can be used in combination. Hands down if I'm browsing for something, hierarchy 'fiddlework' is a must.

[Anthonyd]

Although the new search becomes highly unproductive and actually much slower when the end-user ends up puking every time the Start Screen comes into view. People will definitely expect that nasty side effect to be addressed in Windows 9.

PS On a more serious note: Do you really require every post to start with "In my opinion?", "It's my view that?" etc.? Get over yourself please.

It's not "much slower" neither "highly unproductive", try it before commenting about it. Plus the fact that you search only one category between file/apps/settings increase the search speed. If you need to access often to a folder/apps/settings, you can pin it to the start screen.

How is it more powerful? It's pretty much the same bloody thing; except it's full screen and broken down into 3 categories; which slows searches down since you have to potentially click on a different category.

Let me come over to your point of view.

The fact is, and I will admit it, the full screen thing is subjective per user, some people don't multitask by watching multiple windows, when they go to search and run something.

If you accept that statement, then you can conclude that once in the Metro full screen, clicking on a search category to narrow things down probably isn't a big deal, since you've already hidden whatever else you were doing. The process doesn't take long either, and the switch to Metro is incredibly quick.

Also, as you said, there are more items displayed then the old start menu could display. However you also have to conclude that the more letters in your search term, the less results; potentially making the argument of more results per page null.

Congratulations, you now know how to properly make an argument, give your self a pat on the back :)

You can use keyboard shortcut to directly search into a specified category.

The full screen thing isn't subjective at all. When searching you want as much result as possible per page to avoid you to scroll to spot the result you are looking for as fast as possible.

Read this : http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/tags/start/

Also, people are saying "huuuu it's unproductive because it's taking the whole screen" where in fact it's not since when you open the start menu you are only focusing on it not on what is in the background (it's like reading 2 books at the same time, you can't). Microsoft made a lot of tests to make sure that it's not counter productive.

[Matthew_Thepc]

I do not even have an hour anymore to get used to a new system. I have a full time job and a part time job on top of that. Clients are waiting for me to release stuff for them and provide services. Back when I was in college I could spend all the time I wanted to get used to a new system. I know how to use OS X, Windows, and Ubuntu. I probably could not learn how to use those now.

then spend < 5 minutes to install Start 8 & set it up to boot directly into the desktop. PROBLEM FIXED. Or spend max 30 minutes getting used to the Metro start screen. It honestly isn't that hard to get used to - just think of it as a big start menu....complete with app icons and all.

I expect to see winrt make it's way to the desktop, that would let us actually run metro apps windowed if we wanted to and not be limited to full screen. I also expect the systray to probably go in Windows 9 and to see the taskbar support live tiles.

from a development & consumer standpoint, I'd love to see this happen. I've been playing around with C++ in WinRT and I've got to say I love it a lot more than I ever liked Win32 (granted, I almost never used Win32, but I tried to learn it :). Also, WinRT is more 'standardized' - all the documentation for it references design objectives that make apps work together and interact seamlessly, which I would love to see between Metro & Desktop.

But how does Desktop Outlook 2013 send notifications like Metro WinRT apps? I can't seem to find any way to do that in the documentation...

[Matthew_Thepc]

Also, people are saying "huuuu it's unproductive because it's taking the whole screen" where in fact it's not since when you open the start menu you are only focusing on it not on what is in the background (it's like reading 2 books at the same time, you can't). Microsoft made a lot of tests to make sure that it's not counter productive.

my thoughts exactly - when the start screen pops up, I focus on that. But tbh, I've heard of people who are super boss and can focus on writing their word document & doing a hundred other things all while using the start menu ( :s). so for those people, i'm sorry the Start Screen's interrupting your flow

[scaramonga]

Well I suppose anyone who has 'Windows 8' as their OS, in profile, and is stupid enough to come in and make a dumb argument, yup :) I'll leave it there. <--- No search needed for that lol ;)

[Wyn6]

I&#39;m right on the Search and you know it. Instead of pretending to be so civilized, why don&#39;t you worry about the truth first?

Survey says?! XXX Oh. Now the Johnson family has a chance to steal. Seriously. From anywhere in the OS, and this includes the desktop. pull up the Charms bar and select search or press win + Q and type in what you want. Now, if you referring to the All Apps menu as the Start Screen, which I believe you may be confusing the two, then yes. You have to go through that if you're searching. But, the actual Start Screen and All Apps menu are two different things or at least one is an extension of the other at best. And, you spend all of two seconds actually looking at that if you're typing in what you're searching for.

[Stoffel]

my thoughts exactly - when the start screen pops up, I focus on that. But tbh, I've heard of people who are super boss and can focus on writing their word document & doing a hundred other things all while using the start menu ( :s). so for those people, i'm sorry the Start Screen's interrupting your flow

I'm right there with you. I don't understand how people can code, chat, watch a movie and browse all at the same time.

I do one thing at a time, if I go to the start screen or start menu I focus completely on that, and nothing else.

[Wyn6]

And yet Windows Phone 7 after a year in the market only has 1.9% market share. A single phone like the Samsung S III has out sold all Windows Phones shipped to date, twice over.

Are we really in the minority? And yes I have to use the Phone as an example because Windows 8 hasn't even shipped yet so to say any of us are in the minority at this early point means you must be basing that off your own opinion or on the lackluster sales of Windows Phone devices. So which is it?

Just a slight correction. WP7 is up to 4% in the U.S. (slight rounding up), and much higher in other markets. The Samsung GS is an established name of a proven product. So, of course it's outselling a relative unknown product.

It's kinda like comparing the box office numbers for Dark Knight Rises to those of Brave. Both are really good movies, but the established franchise that's proven to be very good over it's three iterations will blow away the box office numbers for a newcomer. Meanwhile, Brave will make its money over time, it just wasn't $160 million for opening weekend.

[Tartan]

They won't learn until they see their sales figures a few months down the line. They will have to learn the hard way just how much most people hate the butt fugly monostrosity that is windows 8.

I'm sure metro works fine for phones, but it has NO place on the traditional desktop. I for one will avoid it like the plague for as long as possible.

[Dermot]

Personally i see windows 8 as a chance for them to remove bloat from Windows, removing a lot of old stagnant code from older windows while they have another 10yr Os (win 7).

They can now spend the next 8 odd years making windows completely touch friendly

However i think they will then branch out the Touch part of Windows to perhaps Windows Touch or something along them lines.

Or they will make the touch elements in windows 9 a toggle feature that only turns on when a touch device is used or selected.

[air-]

The new type of Windows is starting.

-> Windows 95 -> Windows 7 (just giving an example,left out 1.0,etc)

Also remember Windows 1.0, now look today at Windows 7, windows 7 is so much more fluid,smooth,fun,etc.

Windows 8 is a beginning for what's to come.

also:

the people who disagree with Windows 8 because there's no start button or that metro has been added, those types of people have no knowage of computers. they might be all high and mighy inside and thinking they are great but it really shows how stupid they are.

[Matthew_Thepc]

my thoughts exactly - when the start screen pops up, I focus on that. But tbh, I've heard of people who are super boss and can focus on writing their word document & doing a hundred other things all while using the start menu ( :s). so for those people, i'm sorry the Start Screen's interrupting your flow

er, lol, start menu :)

:blush:

Well I suppose anyone who has 'Windows 8' as their OS, in profile, and is stupid enough to come in and make a dumb argument, yup :) I'll leave it there. <--- No search needed for that lol ;)

sorry, were you referring to me? :}

[Active.]

The new type of Windows is starting.

You mean the "Wow" starts now? :shifty:

[migo]

I expect Windows 9 won't rely on the desktop for configuration anymore, and that anyone using Windows 9, could if they wish exclusively use Metro for everything except legacy apps if they so wish.

[Tartan]

It all boils down too, what good is an OS primarily designed for touch screens on a tradional pc desktop?

The point is we aren't being given a choice, it's being forced upon us. Make metro a seperate product and have the core of windows 8 with a more tradional interface.

[scaramonga]

You mean the "Wow" starts now? :shifty:

:laugh: God I recall that, in fact, I'm still waiting on it starting!

[Matthew_Thepc]

They will have to learn the hard way just how much most people hate the butt fugly monostrosity that is windows 8.

okay, I'm sorry if I've just got really weird and horrible friends who totally don't have any ties whatsoever with the majority of the population, but never has any of the people I know outside of Neowin ever said anything to refer to it as a "but fugly monostrosity" - but yeah, I've heard it as "a lot a like an apple product" "WOOH. THIS IS WINDOWS? SEXY! <3" and stuff like "this is where the future is - I love it." IME, "most people" aka the common consumer actually like Windows 8 because it makes the simple things they do easier. Sure, there'll always be a vocal group that disagrees with certain changes in new operating systems, but, again IME, consumers don't give a **** if the start button is gone - they just use the windows key anyways (and most of them probably won't even bother to click on the desktop app once a week). Metro - even with it's current 300-some apps - can do almost everything your common consumer does.

Please, feel free to prove me wrong, but until then, don't tell me that the common consumer will find an OS a "fugly monostrosity" just because it does it's best to make the things they do daily a hell of a lot easier.

or were you just saying you don't like mult-colored icons representing a home screen? seeing as tho iOS uses multi-colored icons (the app shortcuts) on it's home screen, and looking at the sales figures for iOS devices, I'd have to say most of the population disagrees with you ;) (not to mention the fact that Windows 7 uses them too - on the Superbar and Desktop, and Android even uses live widgets!)

but seriously, have you ever shown Windows 8 to a non-techy consumer and had them tell you it was a "butt fugly monostrosity"?

[trag3dy]

Newsflash: You never used your computer (running Windows) the way you wanted. You always used it the way Microsoft told you to.

First they told you to type commands(DOS) then they told you to click icons on screen (Win 3.x) then they told you to use the start menu (Win 4-7) and now they are saying use start screen.

You're funny, I like you. We can be friends.

Oh...

wait....

you're being serious...?

Sorry, thought you just had a really good sense of humor and sarcasm at first. :wacko:

[scaramonga]

Let's just remind ourselves for a moment, lets just go back a little....

I wait for Win8 version.....

[Matthew_Thepc]

Let's just remind ourselves for a moment, lets just go back a little....

I wait for Win8 version.....

LOFL XD

but tbh, this has no real relevance to this discussion, as he pointed out many (but _definitely_ not all or most) of the vista problems had to do with incompatible hardware, which we don't really seem to be seeing much of a problem with so far on Windows 8

[scaramonga]

LOFL XD

but tbh, this has no real relevance to this discussion, as he pointed out many (but _definitely_ not all or most) of the vista problems had to do with incompatible hardware, which we don't really seem to be seeing much of a problem with so far on Windows 8

Yes, true, but Win8 is so ugly that you wouldn't really notice anyway, and if you did, you would have to 'touch' to find out?

[Vice]

Just a slight correction. WP7 is up to 4% in the U.S. (slight rounding up), and much higher in other markets. The Samsung GS is an established name of a proven product. So, of course it's outselling a relative unknown product.

It's kinda like comparing the box office numbers for Dark Knight Rises to those of Brave. Both are really good movies, but the established franchise that's proven to be very good over it's three iterations will blow away the box office numbers for a newcomer. Meanwhile, Brave will make its money over time, it just wasn't $160 million for opening weekend.

Actually according to Neilsen it's 1.3% Here is a source: http://blog.nielsen....enwire/?p=32494

As you can see from their release numbers this July 2012 it clearly shows Windows Phone 7 at 1.3% and Windows Mobile (aka Windows 6.5 and below) at 3% - People would rather use that old Windows Mobile 6.5 than the current Windows Phone with that nice new Metro interface? - Of course not I'm just kidding and obviously those 3% of people on Windows Mobile haven't upgraded to any new device in a long time.

And I argue against your established brand thing because back before the iPhone entered the market everyone who had a Smart Phone had either a blackberry a windows mobile device or a Symbian device. The iPhone in just 2-3 years managed to take the majority of all Smart Phone sales. And then another new entry, Android managed to even beat the iPhone at its own game and now has most of the market. Both new entries in only the last few years while Microsoft has been in the Smart Phone game for over a decade. To say they are a new entry to the market is wrong, what you mean to say is their newest product (Windows Phone 7) is a flop while their previous Windows Mobile products did quite well for themselves.

And the same thing has happened to Palm, Symbian and Blackberry. Once modern greats in the Smart Phone industry, all suffering a slow death because consumers just aren't buying their latest products, no one can deny the success they once had. Based on what you said these companies should be dominating due to their brand awareness, they are the "Dark Knights" of the mobile phone business, but that isn't what is happening, new entrants are dominating not established brands.