122 posts in this topic

Im from a little place called Australia, and maybe im alone here in my country in thinking that freedom is a privilege not a right. Maybe i also think that way as im a former soldier, but freedom is not inherent, its only available by everyone doing their part. Id hate to think that people think freedom is a right given to you at birth, its a privilege extended to you by the sacrifices of those who came before you, and its extended to you to maintain.

Education hasnt obviously worked. The real issue is that the product is too readily available and the populace has been conditioned over decades via marketing into thinking bigger is better, and better value. Obviously, finally, someone at the NYC board of health has come to the realisation that they cant undo or compete with the marketing and conditioning of decades, so theyve taken what is the only logical step.

For all those banging on about this negatively, you;d hate it in my village, they banned bottled water years ago as people would single use the plastic bottles and throw them away and usually this meant litter. Instead they put in a free village water station and local businesses sell reusable bottles. This had several effects:

1) less litter

2) less plastic landfill

3) people buying less soda (or soft drinks as theyre known here) for 2 reasons:

a) the bottles are made of plastic

b) the water at the the village water station is free, and people like free ****

Number of protests: 0

Locals from the area just bring their resuable bottles when they come into the village

I agree with fighting to protect freedom, and needs to be fought for and protected(You may see that as earned) whenever someone

tries to take it away, it's not a black and white issue.

Education wasn't really tried, they give calorie information without the required information on what that means, and while this information

is available online, a lot of it is conflicting and outright incorrect, you'd be surprised at how many doctors even get it wrong, much of the information

has been tainted by the same marketing you talk about.

Your example isn't really comparable, now if your village elders or whatever you have, decided people can only drink 8 glasses of water a day

Since that is the recommended and NO more, you can probably bet people would be protesting that.

And using your example, will create MORE waste in this situation, with people ordering two/three drinks instead of one

On the positive side, refills probably wont create more waste and they'll have to get off their asses to get it, or make the waiter

exercise more, probably the second one.

I guess we disagree on this, I don't think banning is the correct action, taxing and education in my view are the better choice

What people choose to do with that information is their own choice.

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I agree with fighting to protect freedom, and needs to be fought for and protected(You may see that as earned) whenever someone

tries to take it away, it's not a black and white issue.

Education wasn't really tried, they give calorie information without the required information on what that means, and while this information

is available online, a lot of it is conflicting and outright incorrect, you'd be surprised at how many doctors even get it wrong, much of the information

has been tainted by the same marketing you talk about.

Your example isn't really comparable, now if your village elders or whatever you have, decided people can only drink 8 glasses of water a day

Since that is the recommended and NO more, you can probably bet people would be protesting that.

And using your example, will create MORE waste in this situation, with people ordering two/three drinks instead of one

On the positive side, refills probably wont create more waste and they'll have to get off their asses to get it, or make the waiter

exercise more, probably the second one.

I guess we disagree on this, I don't think banning is the correct action, taxing and education in my view are the better choice

What people choose to do with that information is their own choice.

I take your points on board, but no one is limiting how many serves, just the size of a single server. Theyre trying to recondition peoples minds on serving sizes, nothing more and certainly not worth the nutty "freedom" chants going on in here.

Refills usually just use one cup as far as i know, i dont think you get a new cup each time.

Still think education is next to useless with fast food. Theyve been printing calories on McDonalds etc wrappers and at Pizza Hut here for a few years now...has that made any impact on how many they sell...no, because as i said, decades of marketing and conditioning make that moot. Sure the companies like McDonalds etc whined about it, but half heartedly because they knew they had done the groundwork over decades.

Theres been talk for a few years about taxing fast food here, and i think its inevitable, and as we have obesity issues here too, i think its getting to the point where i think its likely a body, be it government or local authorities, will step in and tax it - its a way to deter people and also provide healthcare for those who will still continue to act against their own health and also to infuse the general public health system. I have no issue with that.

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Funny thing is I don't think NY realizes that obesity tends to be linked more to diet soda drinking than regular soda...so by not banning diet soda sizes they actually just made the problem worse lol.

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Funny thing is I don't think NY realizes that obesity tends to be linked more to diet soda drinking than regular soda...so by not banning diet soda sizes they actually just made the problem worse lol.

Ya but the people getting the Diet Soda will die of cancer before they need to shell out the money for their medical treatment for being obese..

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Ya but the people getting the Diet Soda will die of cancer before they need to shell out the money for their medical treatment for being obese..

cough bull**** cough

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It is a "supposed" epidemic. Did you know that the scale, BMI, was devised in 1830? Most people, probably even yourself, would be considered overweight by that scale. The issue isn't the people when it comes to the rising numbers. It's the fact that the scale used to classify people is old and outdated.

Actually, I'm well aware of exactly what the BMI is and its limitations. You only have to look around when you're out and about to see that the overweight/obesity epidemic is real. An epidemic is defined as something that is "extremely prevalent; widespread", which is factually accurate for describing obesity. And I know my own BMI and I am classed as normal weight, so it's best not to make assumptions.

Doing nothing is an option, because there isn't a problem. It wasn't that long ago that being what you consider overweight would have actually been considered healthy.

And it wasn't long ago that doctors were recommending cigarettes but times move on. If you don't believe there's a problem then we're never going to get anywhere; you're clearly not being reasonable.

I'm not opposing change, I'm simply saying there's no reason to, and even if there was, government intervention is not the way to go about it.

So a government has no obligation to protect the health of its citizens? You may believe that but I certainly don't.

Funny thing is I don't think NY realizes that obesity tends to be linked more to diet soda drinking than regular soda...so by not banning diet soda sizes they actually just made the problem worse lol.

I guess I'm missing something. How can something with effectively no calories be contributing to obesity? You would have to drink 105 litres of diet coke to consume the same amount of calories as 1 litre of regular coke. I think you must be referring to the psychology of "diet" products, though that's a whole separate issue and should be tackled through education and public awareness.

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I'm glad I don't live in New York. Gotta have those Big Gulps!

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Just jack up the tax rate for drinks over a certain size, most people will simply avoid them.

no they wont, coke and pepsi already proved this by moving from a 2 liter bottle to a 1.5 liter bottle for the same price, didn't hurt sales one bit

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I don't hate fat people and I do have fast food every so often , i under stand you pay taxes like I, but as more people get diabetes , and requite other help treatments the overall cost to health will rise and rise which will effect me.

I know the soda drink is small , but could you compare it to smoking, damages your health and causes a higher health bill , without second hand smoking part of course.

Except that soda and sugar doesn't cause type I or type II diabetes. Way to discriminate people with a disease you don't even understand the causes of.

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Except that soda and sugar doesn't cause type I or type II diabetes. Way to discriminate people with a disease you don't even understand the causes of.

Actually, that's not accurate. While sugar doesn't "cause" diabetes it is a contributing factor.

Myth: Eating too much sugar causes diabetes.

Fact: No, it does not. Type 1 diabetes is caused by genetics and unknown factors that trigger the onset of the disease; type 2 diabetes is caused by genetics and lifestyle factors. Being overweight does increase your risk for developing type 2 diabetes, and a diet high in calories, whether from sugar or from fat, can contribute to weight gain. If you have a history of diabetes in your family, eating a healthy meal plan and regular exercise are recommended to manage your weight.

Source: Diabetes.org

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Actually, I'm well aware of exactly what the BMI is and its limitations. You only have to look around when you're out and about to see that the overweight/obesity epidemic is real. An epidemic is defined as something that is "extremely prevalent; widespread", which is factually accurate for describing obesity. And I know my own BMI and I am classed as normal weight, so it's best not to make assumptions.

I don't know where you are, but when I "look around when I'm out and about", I don't see many people who are truly overweight, and I don't mean based on the BMI.

And it wasn't long ago that doctors were recommending cigarettes but times move on. If you don't believe there's a problem then we're never going to get anywhere; you're clearly not being reasonable.
I am being reasonable, it's you who isn't. The government needs to stick to what it's there for, and this isn't something it should have any business messing with.
So a government has no obligation to protect the health of its citizens? You may believe that but I certainly don't.

Of course the government has the obligation to protect the health of it's citizens. It has an obligation to protect us from disease, from dangerous chemicals, etc. It does not, and has no business "protecting" us from choosing to drink soda and the amount of it we want to drink.

This is very similar to prohibition. It didn't work, it never will work, and the government needs to stop trying. Until the day it's illegal to smoke a cigarette, which is far more harmful, they need to butt out of what food I eat and what I drink.

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Nonsense litigation. Period.

1 person likes this

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I guess I'm missing something. How can something with effectively no calories be contributing to obesity? You would have to drink 105 litres of diet coke to consume the same amount of calories as 1 litre of regular coke. I think you must be referring to the psychology of "diet" products, though that's a whole separate issue and should be tackled through education and public awareness.

The artificial sweetener also affects how the body processes caloric intake from other sources and how the body burns off fat. It's not just the calories you take in that affect your weight, but the calories you burn. If you have something that acts as an inhibitor then you have a problem as well.

There is also the psychology part of it as well...but do some reading up on what the chemicals do...and no I'm not talking normal conspiracy theory can be debunked by snopes stuff. I'm talking the actual data regarding how the body processes the chemicals.

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The artificial sweetener also affects how the body processes caloric intake from other sources and how the body burns off fat. It's not just the calories you take in that affect your weight, but the calories you burn. If you have something that acts as an inhibitor then you have a problem as well.

There is also the psychology part of it as well...but do some reading up on what the chemicals do...and no I'm not talking normal conspiracy theory can be debunked by snopes stuff. I'm talking the actual data regarding how the body processes the chemicals.

Odd then that you didn't provide a source.

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Aspertane what they now use in place of Saccharine, breaks back down to Saccharine in the heat. Saccharine is carcinogenic.

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Aspertane what they now use in place of Saccharine, breaks back down to Saccharine in the heat. Saccharine is carcinogenic.

Source please

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http://aspartame.mercola.com/

http://www.cancer.or...tHome/aspartame

You are correct but after exposed to heat it breaks down into Saccharine which is.

Facepalm do you have any scientific sources for this ?

A Doctor in Phoenix tried for years to get it off the market.

When you cherry pick an appeal to authority its not science, You may aswell cite a butchers opinion

"Complaints of various health issues have circulated since aspartame first appeared on the market in the 1980s. But for most people, no health problems have clearly been linked to aspartame use"

Thats what i thought

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Odd then that you didn't provide a source.

Not really. It's early and it's not up to me to do every single persons research for them. Why should I do the research for me, and then also dig it all up for you? ;)

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This is very similar on why seat belts are required. The government (either country) don't really care for your health, but they care for the bills. It's cheaper to force people to use a seat belt than have accidents and injuries.

For this perspective, it's health.

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Not really. It's early and it's not up to me to do every single persons research for them. Why should I do the research for me, and then also dig it all up for you? ;)

Tbhonest if you are correct then id say you have a moral obligation to make your case as strongly as possible, But then again its Its alex jones isn't it or one of his guests

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Tbhonest if you are correct then id say you have a moral obligation to make your case as strongly as possible, But then again its Its alex jones isn't it or one of his guests

? Mind explaining this post?

I have no idea what you're trying to say...

On the other side of that.... I often provide links in my posts to stuff that backs up my posts, but in all honesty people should also be responsible for their own learning at times. The problem with this world? Everyone expects everything to be spoonfed, information-wise.

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Regardless of a supposed obesity epidemic

There is no "supposed" about it.

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yay now the gooberment is telling us what we can and can't eat.

Here's an idea... stay the hell out of our lives and let us do what we want as long as it isn't hurting anyone else. Jesus. ****, what about that is so hard to understand? Maybe I want to drink 500 calories along with my 900 calories of burger and 450 calories of fries. **** OFF.

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