Windows 8 is the new Windows XP


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Just for fun, somebody should go into a Microsoft store after Win 8 launches and ask for reasons why to buy 8 over 7. I'm curious to see what they see as the major selling points.

To be fair, "average people" (codename for non-techies) base their decisions almost entirely on "I heard." Examples:

Why are you upgrading to the iPhone 5? Because I heard it was faster and lighter... and a bit bigger.

Why are you upgrading to Windows 7? Because I heard it was faster.

What about Vista? I heard it was a flop, and it was slow for me.

Buying a Mac? I heard it doesn't get viruses.

Buying Bose stuff? I heard people saying they sounded great. (from commercials conveniently)

And with Windows 8? I heard people say it's only for tablets and it's really hard to use on desktops.

With all these "heards" going around, people have made up their minds before even *seeing* the product.

Likewise, I'd probably say something ignorant about the reliability of American car manufacturers because I "heard" imports have far better reliability. But I don't have cars nor do I know a lot about them.

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To be fair, average people base their decisions almost entirely on "I heard." Examples:

Why are you upgrading to the iPhone 5? Because I heard it was faster and lighter... and a bit bigger.

Why are you upgrading to Windows 7? Because I heard it was faster.

What about Vista? I heard it was a flop, and it was slow for me.

Buying a Mac? I heard it doesn't get viruses.

Buying Bose stuff? I heard people saying they sounded great. (from commercials conveniently)

And with Windows 8? I heard people say it's only for tablets and it's really hard to use on desktops.

With all these "heards" going around, people have made up their minds before even *seeing* the product.

Likewise, I'd probably say something ignorant about the reliability of American car manufacturers because I "heard" imports have far better reliability. But I don't have cars nor do I know a lot about them.

That's a good point. I do think a lot of the stereotypes will be sorted out soon after it's released though. Plenty of people that buy a new PC will be able to give a first-hand testimonial of their experiences, and I think that will speak a lot about the success of the OS. Most of the time when you upgrade a product, the changes are somewhat subtle. With 8, it's a pretty massive overhaul, so it's going to be the matter of whether that big of a change is welcomed.

This is where I think having the option of turning on/off the start button and boot options would have been valuable. The concept alone of forcing this on people without any other options is probably what will make people the angriest. Just my opinion though.

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To be fair, "average people" (codename for non-techies) base their decisions almost entirely on "I heard." Examples:

Why are you upgrading to the iPhone 5? Because I heard it was faster and lighter... and a bit bigger.

Why are you upgrading to Windows 7? Because I heard it was faster.

What about Vista? I heard it was a flop, and it was slow for me.

Buying a Mac? I heard it doesn't get viruses.

Buying Bose stuff? I heard people saying they sounded great. (from commercials conveniently)

And with Windows 8? I heard people say it's only for tablets and it's really hard to use on desktops.

With all these "heards" going around, people have made up their minds before even *seeing* the product.

Likewise, I'd probably say something ignorant about the reliability of American car manufacturers because I "heard" imports have far better reliability. But I don't have cars nor do I know a lot about them.

Best comment in years!!!

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No one has any idea how Windows 8 is going to be accepted, especially not a fanboy like Ed Bott. I really hope it does well but it's even confusing to me, so I can just imagine how non-techs are going to view it. Who knows, over time people might warm to it. One reason XP became so widespread is the length of time it was on the market. If it had been on the market for only 3 years it might not have been as accepted.

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XP sucked in it's early days. I remember a lot of people disliking it until around SP2 days.

I don't know why businesses are picked on so much, they can't just up and change their systems every year. Many work on 3-5 year cycles, so they'll be on an older OS for a while. Some even longer.

I did work for a customer that was still using NT on their system (hey it worked!!)

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The problem is that businesses have no reason to upgrade to windows 8 if they have windows 7. I am an IT admin at a library and I have no reason to switch from windows 7 to windows 8.Server 2012 Yes but not windows 8

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In my professional experience of training end-users to use replacement software, it doesn't matter how much better the new software is because they're still going to hate it. Why do they hate it? Because they have to learn how to do it. This phenomena applies to all aspects of their job.

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I did work for a customer that was still using NT on their system (hey it worked!!)

We have one system, not connected to the Internet, that still uses Windows 98 to run a digital router. Business believes if it ain't broke then don't try to fix it.

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In my professional experience of training end-users to use replacement software, it doesn't matter how much better the new software is because they're still going to hate it. Why do they hate it? Because they have to learn how to do it. This phenomena applies to all aspects of their job.

Right, which is the problem with Windows 8. 95->98->XP->Vista->7, each of those was really not that drastically different than the last. Even if you took someone from Windows 95 and gave them Windows 7, the same basic concept of the desktop GUI is there, and they'd be able to find their way around fairly easily. Enter Windows 8, everything is massively different. Regardless of what fanboys want to say, those of us in the industry can GUARANTEE mass confusion and hate for Windows 8 when it comes to your general public. I've dealt with enough people to know how they act, hell, don't any of you have computer illiterate parents? Perhaps the sheer simplicity of the start screen will work out for some of the least computer literate, but a LOT of people aren't going to like Windows 8 because it requires the most relearning of an OS they've seen since... well, ever.

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.... The magnifier? :laugh: No, that isn't even close to what I'm looking for.

Edit: Hmm... maybe there's another place? I forgot that there is two control panels now, part of the wonderful disorganization and confusion of Windows 8. Funny enough, I don't think Windows 2012 has this Metro control panel. Or maybe it's so obscurely located that I once again can't find it? I don't see a devices menu like in normal 8 either. Perhaps the 2012 start screen has features stripped, that'd be even further more confusing if it's missing control panels and things that are in Windows 8. This is a prime example of why Windows 8/2012 isn't ready for prime time.

Edit 2: Yep, it appears that 2012 doesn't have this Metro control panel, yet it does have a start screen. How you have the start screen with the ability to run metro apps without the settings for it is crazy to me, but I highly doubt anyone will ever use a Metro app on 2012, so I suppose it's omission isn't that bad. I see the make everything bigger in a screenshot elsewhere, but I'd have to try it to see if it works at all like it should. And my only option is yes or no? No slider to change how big I want things? It's not one size fits all, it's not two sizes fit all. Especially on a UI that you'd think would be designed to work across a massive array of different screen sizes, resolutions, and DPIs, Windows STILL can't handle DPI scaling properly.

I don't know about every SKU but I'm running Server 2012 Essentials RTM here and it has the Metro control panel and the Devices charm in the usual places. It's not disorganised or hard to find.

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We have one system, not connected to the Internet, that still uses Windows 98 to run a digital router. Business believes if it ain't broke then don't try to fix it.

Proper businesses also believe in minimising risk ;)

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I don't know about every SKU but I'm running Server 2012 Essentials RTM here and it has the Metro control panel and the Devices charm in the usual places. It's not disorganised or hard to find.

Really? Now that's odd. I'm running Datacenter (which is probably why), but the only options on the Start screen for me at the moment are Server Manager, PowerShell, Admin Tools, Computer, Task Manager, Control Panel, Internet Explorer, and Desktop. On the charms bar where 8 would have Search, Share, Start, Devices, and Settings, I just have Search, Start, and Settings. It looks like they stripped out a lot of the Metro stuff in Datacenter, which makes it even more odd that there's such a hollow start screen even left in there at all. I guess it's for bare bones Metro support.

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Windows 8 seems to be geared towards tablets, touchscreens. what about the laptop users?Windows 8 will be a niche user OS. Probably 8 was geared for steering users to thin clients or cloud OS hardware. I don't think laptops will die off very soon. but wow, Windows 8 is not what I would have expected from MS.

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Really? Now that's odd. I'm running Datacenter (which is probably why), but the only options on the Start screen for me at the moment are Server Manager, PowerShell, Admin Tools, Computer, Task Manager, Control Panel, Internet Explorer, and Desktop. On the charms bar where 8 would have Search, Share, Start, Devices, and Settings, I just have Search, Start, and Settings. It looks like they stripped out a lot of the Metro stuff in Datacenter, which makes it even more odd that there's such a hollow start screen even left in there at all. I guess it's for bare bones Metro support.

Yes, my Start Screen came with the same apps as well (plus the Essentials Dashboard) so I guess they form the standard config for 2012 Server (which makes sense I guess). I don't know much about the Datacenter SKU but it's fairly niche so I guess it makes sense for them to remove some of the features on the Charms menu. Essentials on the other hand is the successor to SBS 2011 and WHS so it's more likely that users will add devices and maybe run Metro app on it.

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I see no reason for Windows 8 to fail on tablets. It is a great experience for touch. It will probably be shunned by desktop users however. I think Microsoft is aware that they're frustrating desktop users to a certain point, but they need to conquer a new market and Windows 8 was the best they could come up with as a "unified" experience, for now. So I think Windows 8 will be a transition OS a bit like Vista, and Windows 9 is the next "mature" release.

I think a system utility which could determine the users system and install the appropriate UI. There's a huge difference from desktop/laptop than that of a tablet.

I'm going out on a limb here but, I understand MS's attempts and while great, misses the mark for those who are still old school.

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Windows 8 seems to be geared towards tablets, touchscreens. what about the laptop users?Windows 8 will be a niche user OS. Probably 8 was geared for steering users to thin clients or cloud OS hardware. I don't think laptops will die off very soon. but wow, Windows 8 is not what I would have expected from MS.

Running WIndows 8 on a laptop, for me, is like running Win8 on a tablet. I've switched over to using nothing but WinRT apps on my notebook.

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Wasn't there an editorial on Neowin mentioning how people look like idiots if they compare Windows 8 to Windows Vista? Does the same apply if we compare it to XP?

:shifty:

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Right, which is the problem with Windows 8. 95->98->XP->Vista->7, each of those was really not that drastically different than the last. Even if you took someone from Windows 95 and gave them Windows 7, the same basic concept of the desktop GUI is there, and they'd be able to find their way around fairly easily. Enter Windows 8, everything is massively different. Regardless of what fanboys want to say, those of us in the industry can GUARANTEE mass confusion and hate for Windows 8 when it comes to your general public. I've dealt with enough people to know how they act, hell, don't any of you have computer illiterate parents? Perhaps the sheer simplicity of the start screen will work out for some of the least computer literate, but a LOT of people aren't going to like Windows 8 because it requires the most relearning of an OS they've seen since... well, ever.

Also, how do you expect people to act when their Dell at home breaks and they get a new computer with Windows 8 installed? Most of them could still have Windows XP at work. So you tell them all these new keyboard shortcuts, and when they are in Windows XP at work, they get extra confused.

With Windows 7, people are not as confused.

Even if you took someone from Windows 95 and gave them Windows 7

Yep. I had to upgrade somebody's computer to Windows 7 a few months ago and they knew exactly how to open whatever program they wanted, because they have done it before with the old systems.

You know, it really confuses me why the people that love Windows 8 always slam the idea of a simple choice. After you install Windows 8 it should have asked you if you want the Modern UI or the complete desktop experience. You guys win, and people that are in a heavy productive environment win. This will get rid of all these complaints (other than those complaining about the Windows Store). Why is it bad to want consistency? If I am in the modern UI, I should stay in the modern UI. If I am on the Desktop, I should stay on the Desktop. Why don't you want a choice? We have to move on? What rule is there that we have to ditch the UI paradigm we used for 20 years? Because it is just old? How is that a bad thing? It has the best productive paradigm. If you are in a productive environment, having several windows open and visible at the same time and it is MORE PRODUCTIVE for YOU, why do they NEED to move to a modern style UI paradigm? Just because it is new?

The only response I ever get from this is simply "because times have changed". Yes times have changed, we now have a giant tablet market. But "the times" in desktop computing have not changed. Touch monitor support? Keep in mind I said productive environment. There is not ONE person I have asked, that wants a touch monitor for their work and productive tasks. Video editing, audio creation, photo manipulation, programming, and all other productive tasks are NOT good with a touch monitor for an 8 hour a day shift.

Because the desktop OS, phone OS, and tablet OS MUST be the same. Again, why? The productive desktop environment HAS NOT CHANGED. I fail to see how forcing (again, just a simple option when you first install is all everybody I talk to wants) the modern UI on desktop users is a plus.

Be honest here, if you take all of these complaints (minus the ones about the store). A simple Modern UI or Desktop UI choice at startup ON THE DESKTOP OS would fix MOST of the complaints.

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Sorry....? We all know the lawlessness that can be ZDnet sometimes.

Sorry but they're right. Linking a few paragraphs is fine but let's not disregard fair sourcing practices.

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Also, how do you expect people to act when their Dell at home breaks and they get a new computer with Windows 8 installed? Most of them could still have Windows XP at work. So you tell them all these new keyboard shortcuts, and when they are in Windows XP at work, they get extra confused.

With Windows 7, people are not as confused.

Huh? What difference would it be from when they got XP after their 95/98 box died? Eventually, they'll have to learn and adapt. You can't let fear of change hold you back. Besides, you're talking about people that picked up iOS and Android no problem. They can do the same here.

Be honest here, if you take all of these complaints (minus the ones about the store). A simple Modern UI or Desktop UI choice at startup ON THE DESKTOP OS would fix MOST of the complaints.

What's not "desktop" about Windows 8? It still gives you mouse and keyboard control.

Sorry but they're right. Linking a few paragraphs is fine but let's not disregard fair sourcing practices.

Well, if you want to go back and edit it, that's fine.

EDIT: Looks like you already did.

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What's not "desktop" about Windows 8? It still gives you mouse and keyboard control.

I am talking about the complaints that Windows 8 is a frankenstein OS because it cannot make up its mind on if it is Modern or traditional desktop UI. That is the major complaint I hear (other than the store). They do not like the start screen (being thrown back into the modern UI).

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