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I am sick of the Windows 95 comparisons, Win 8 is far away from the glory o

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Calum    819

Yeah. You know something is wrong in the PC world when the "best apps" lists for Windows 8 include Angry Birds. According to the new Microsoft policy, this is the future. According to my guts, this is how they can go **** themselves.....

Just because Angry Birds isn't as complicated or useful as something like Photoshop, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be deemed a "best app." After all, it's much more popular than Photoshop; it's one of the most popular apps around at the moment.

Hahhahahaha you should do stand up!

I love it when they come out with that one. Also the ole' "Remember 1000 keyboard shortcuts which where never needed but now needed to navigate the Desktop" would love to see that go down with grandparents with their fancy new Windows 8 machines.

None of these shortcuts are needed, though. I don't use any of them. I use my mouse for pretty much everything. We only mention that these keyboard shortcuts are an option for you all because many of you oddly seem to be having trouble being as productive with Windows 8 as you are with Windows 7.

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Dot Matrix    7,417

Um I am sorry....what? Not how computing works? Until businesses change what we do, that is indeed how "computing" works. If my business requires me to have 6 windows explorer windows open at the same time to shuffle files around between servers and clients, several chat windows openly visible AT ALL TIMES, and multiple Visual Studio windows open at the same time so I can edit both when I patch changes. Yes, my job will require me to use the old "Win32" paradigm as you said forever as long as that is what businesses need that type of functionality from me.

How we use the computers HAS NOT CHANGED. We use the phone for these small "Angry Birds" type of games, twitter, facebook, and other applications because maybe we play it while we are waiting in the Doctor's office or something.

In a productive environment, things will never change. That is how computing works.

Metro will be bound to only get more powerful as time goes on. Not to mention, as technology changes, Win32 is only going to continue to suffer. Kinda like how our back end devices are so archaic to setup. you also have the uptick in BYoD in business that is also pushing for change. Things are changing, and they're only going to continue to do so.

No. I want to see Metro nuked from orbit. And I hope Windows 8 will be a commercial disaster to teach Microsoft a lesson...

What a completely idiotic thing to say.

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Calum    819

But, but, but, but, but you can be just as productive in Metro as on the desktop!

Microsoft including one of the most popular games of all time in the Store says absolutely nothing about how productive one can be on Windows 8. Angry Birds isn't the only app in the Store, and some people like to game. As it's one of the most popular games of all time, it makes sense that it would be classed as a "best app," along with apps like Photoshop (if and when that is released).

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Calum    819

[. . .] You know, it really confuses me why the people that love Windows 8 always slam the idea of a simple choice. After you install Windows 8 it should have asked you if you want the Modern UI or the complete desktop experience. [. . .]

But they shouldn't have given you the choice, and that is our point. You may want the choice, but if Microsoft are hoping to do away with the Desktop and they're hoping the new experience will be the future, giving you the choice of the old and new would hurt them and it would be a terrible idea for them. Not to mention, providing support for both configurations would cost Microsoft much more in resources (not just capital), and leaving the code for the old experience (full Start Menu and the lot) would take up more space.

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x-byte    94

No. I want to see Metro nuked from orbit. And I hope Windows 8 will be a commercial disaster to teach Microsoft a lesson...

And you are a tech new reporter? You lack vision for sure. Windows 8 is the best from two worlds. Sure the solution could be a lot better, but it is a good foundation for the future. Windows 9 will likely merge the two into a better solution.
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Active.    1,696
You may want the choice, but [...] giving you the choice of the old and new would hurt them and it would be a terrible idea for them.

Too bad that there seems to be a misalignment between the interest of users and Microsoft's strategic interest.

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~Johnny    397
Win32 is only going to continue to suffer.

I'd imagine Win32 would have to get stronger, considering WinRT is built upon it :p

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Anibal P    2,055

Why would you use the word never? So you are saying 3 years from now when your pc breaks, (notice I said when and not if) what you are going to out of your way to try and find a pc with windows 95 or 98 or whatever you use because your needs don't seem to change. I bet you still have the same video and music collection you had in the 90s too!? Well because you seem no reason to right? So many internet martyrs who think they can affect the market with their dumb ideas of what they "need" and "can" not will pay for.

How much you want to be he's still using the "perfect" WinXP like a sad loser

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scaramonga    202

Sure the solution could be a lot better, but it is a good foundation for the future. Windows 9 will likely merge the two into a better solution.

So Win8 is just a 'stop gap' for now?, till we get the 'better solution'? lol!

This thing is so 'scary' it should have been released tomorrow night instead - halloween.

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LaP    2,067

I believe it is a few bucks. So Dot's screen shot is not valid here.

I really do not understand why Dot and other HATE HATE HATE the idea of a damn choice? MS should have made their own version of Start 8 and included it with the OS.

I have said this before, and I will say it again because I have not heard any GOOD reason why they should not give consumers the choice.

+1000

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ahhell    1,303

No. I want to see Metro nuked from orbit. And I hope Windows 8 will be a commercial disaster to teach Microsoft a lesson...

No wonder the quality of stories on Neowin has declined in recent years considering that this clown is a "reporter". You need to grow the **** up, mate and quit acting like a 5 year old.

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Calum    819

Too bad that there seems to be a misalignment between the interest of users and Microsoft's strategic interest.

Different users would like different things. I love the direction Microsoft are going in, but it seems you don't. It's up to Microsoft to find out which direction the majority of users prefer and it's up to them whether they allow that to influence their decisions. I'm hoping the majority of users will prefer the new experience :)

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Rickkins    283

Modern is going to evolve to replace what we know as the desktop.

No, it isn't. Not even ms thinks so. That's why they are pushing to drive more businesses to win 7 in 2013... not win 8....

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Albert    69

at least win egg is not ms-dos. that's the only good thing i'm saying about it. lmao.

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LaP    2,067

What rule is there that we have to ditch the UI paradigm we used for 20 years?

In fact it's a paradigm people used for ages. It started with books, paper, pens, ink and a desktop. Then it became books, paper, typewriter and a desktop. Then it evolved to what the computer virtual desktop is today. They called it desktop for a reason ;)

I don't hate metro and the start screen. It looks like it works well on a tablet with a touchscreen (did not try it).

But i totally agree with you that there's no good reason not to give the users the choice. The desktop paradigm will not die with windows 8, 9, 10 or any upcoming version of it. The desktop paradigm is here to stay cause it's older than USA.

We should be able to stay in desktop mode. Able to run metro apps encapsulated in a windows (sorta like the new Skype for windows 7). And giving us the choice to use the start menu instead of the start screen (windows 8 pro only) would not hurt anymone.

Do you even understand the purpose of Windows 8? It's a transition OS that is eliminating the old, and bringing in the new. There's no "choice" because Microsoft is eliminating the old paradigm. You're going to see it mature and more change in Windows 9. I can guarantee it. Modern is going to evolve to replace what we know as the desktop.

Yes, you have apps like Angry Birds. OMG, the horror. You also have apps like Skype, Lync, OneNote, EverNote, SkyDrive, MetroTwit, etc. I'm honestly confused as to why having such a range of apps *finally* on an OS I can use without having to go buy a separate device. You're going to see more and more big name apps make the transition over to Metro. The only ones left behind are those clinging to legacy programs no longer developed for.

Let's hope MS will wakeup before it happens.

Valve is totally right to be concerned.

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IntegralDerivative    60

Metro is good for what it does.

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PGHammer    1,423

Can we all just relax? The desktop will stay alongside Metro. End of story.

The ideologues and extremists are at it again.

On the one hand, you have the Win32 purists (The King of GnG) and the RT purists (Dot Matrix). Between them you have those of us that truly use both, but right now more Win32 than RT (such as myself - I do have SOME RT apps and casual games I use/play, but the majority of both are still Win32) that have nary a problem using Windows 8 as a true superset of both Windows 7 and WindowsRT - which is how it actually is meant to be.

The King of GnG, answer me this - why is it that you NEED the Start menu, and that nothing less (including the third-party recreations, including ClassicShell and Start8) will suffice?

Dot, answer me this - do you NEVER use a mouse, or Win32 applications OR games today?

I'm not a purist in that sense - in fact, I never have been. While my first *personal* Win32 OS was Windows 95, I had experience with Windows NT 3.x - in fact, I called Windows 95 a bridge toward Windows NT. (Turned out I was, in fact, dead on - however, it took another six years for that bridge to be finished in Windows XP.)

Was Windows 95 universally loved? Not only no, but it was originally despised, just as Windows for Workgroups 3.x was. (An early - and quite unflattering - sobriquet for Windows for Workgroups was "Windows for Warehouses".) What changed minds on Windows for Workgroups? Oddly enough, it was a benchmark faceoff against Windows 3.1, showing WfWG cleaning its clock - after Gateway and Dell had begun substituting WfWG for Windows 3.x on their PCs. Yes - Windows 95 retained both Program Manager and File Manager - to ease the transition for those attached to both. Starting with Windows 95's beta, I started adding pure Win32 applications (mostly utilities) to my application mix - primarily due to such utilities being better behaved than their Win16 counterparts. (The same would repeat itself when I moved to x64 with Windows Vista - substituting x64 Windows applications for their x32 counterparts where feasible.)

I like Windows 8 not due to it being one OR the other - but precisely because it is both. I can run Win32, Win64, or RT-based applications or games - whichever suits my needs. Some applications are only available one way (such as Pinball FX2 - which has no Win32 equivalent), while some are available both ways (such as Kindle or Twitter applications - here I've split the difference, with Kindle for Win32 and MetroTwit, respectively). In that respect, Windows 8 is indeed Windows 9x revisited - as Windows 9x was a bridge between Win16/3.x and Win32/NT, Windows 8 is a bridge between Win32 and WinRT as APIs. I don't have to choose between one or the other.

You are thinking that there has to be a choice. My response is pretty darn pithy - since when?

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DKAngel    313

how is using windows 8 any different from using windows 7? im finding it to be a nice transition

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Hitman2000    16

Im just confused why Microsoft wants the same layout on all the different types of devices.

( I mean I get that they want the UI to be similar )

but I mean people own devices to do certain things.

My phone is for making calls

tablet pc for looking at lecture notes /reading ebooks

and desktop for everything else.

I can understand the need for apps on the phone and tablet, but why the hell do I have Skype taking up my full screen desktop and making it hard for me to browse the net and multi task in general.

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Dot Matrix    7,417

Dot, answer me this - do you NEVER use a mouse, or Win32 applications OR games today?

I use a desktop system. That includes a mouse, and keyboard. Looking to augment with touch monitors soon.

You know, it really confuses me why the people that love Windows 8 always slam the idea of a simple choice. After you install Windows 8 it should have asked you if you want the Modern UI or the complete desktop experience. You guys win, and people that are in a heavy productive environment win. This will get rid of all these complaints (other than those complaining about the Windows Store). Why is it bad to want consistency? If I am in the modern UI, I should stay in the modern UI. If I am on the Desktop, I should stay on the Desktop. Why don't you want a choice? We have to move on? What rule is there that we have to ditch the UI paradigm we used for 20 years? Because it is just old? How is that a bad thing? It has the best productive paradigm. If you are in a productive environment, having several windows open and visible at the same time and it is MORE PRODUCTIVE for YOU, why do they NEED to move to a modern style UI paradigm? Just because it is new?

I'm not against choice, however, I am against holding technology back because people don't want to change. Technology is evolving, and our OS is holding us back. We have new devices that want to break out, but can't because they're unusable with the Win32 desktop. There is no written rule saying we need to ditch it, but it's not going to be around forever. Nothing ever is. It's natural evolution. The legacy Win32 environment is dying out for the same reason the CLI died out.

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PGHammer    1,423

Im just confused why Microsoft wants the same layout on all the different types of devices.

( I mean I get that they want the UI to be similar )

but I mean people own devices to do certain things.

My phone is for making calls

tablet pc for looking at lecture notes /reading ebooks

and desktop for everything else.

I can understand the need for apps on the phone and tablet, but why the hell do I have Skype taking up my full screen desktop and making it hard for me to browse the net and multi task in general.

Again, there's nothing forcing a Windows 8 user to use Skype for RT any more than a Windows 8 user must use Kindle for RT - I have both installed, but only for where each makes sense. (I also have their Win32 counterparts installed; in fact, I still use the Win32 versions most often because I can run them windowed - which is impossible for the RT versions.) That is what leads directly to "since when" - the choice of which to use remains up to me.

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x-byte    94

So Win8 is just a 'stop gap' for now?, till we get the 'better solution'? lol!

Oh, please. Win8 is a merging of the PC, tablet and phone. At this time there is no other better solution. I'm not saying it is bad, or that it is perfect. The problem today is the hardware. We are getting there. Software and hardware will evolve and get better.

For people not seeing the potential here is quite surprising. We are about to unify the user experience for all devices. There is no reason for any device to behave different.

Win9 will of course evolve the concept and make it better. That is the point of software. But the hardware needs to be ready for it. This is the beginning. This is the reason tablets failed the first time. Now the technology is there and we can start looking into further improving it.

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xWhiplash    349

I use a desktop system. That includes a mouse, and keyboard. Looking to augment with touch monitors soon.

I'm not against choice, however, I am against holding technology back because people don't want to change. Technology is evolving, and our OS is holding us back. We have new devices that want to break out, but can't because they're unusable with the Win32 desktop. There is no written rule saying we need to ditch it, but it's not going to be around forever. Nothing ever is. It's natural evolution. The legacy Win32 environment is dying out for the same reason the CLI died out.

Sigh....Again, how is using the computer THE WAY I WANT TO holding back technology? I get the latest hardware, I use my tablet for things that I do not need my $4,000 workstation for. Using old usage paradigms is not holding back technology. So ever since Windows 95, we have been stuck technologically speaking? What about massive processor enhancements that OMG the old paradigm supports? hyper-threading and multi-core are NEW technologies. A new UI paradigm is just a new UI Paradigm, not a new technology. PCI Express is a new technology that works on things other than Windows 8. THESE are new technologies. How is using the 9x paradigm holding us back exactly?

You are not talking about technology here. Technology is evolving meaning we get SSDs, new processors, top of the line graphics cards, tablets, and so on. Your "holding back technology" does not make sense when we are talking about USAGE PARADIGMS.

Yes we now have tablets, but the DESKTOP will always remain the same, and the way we use it for work.

The legacy Win32 environment is dying

No it is NOT. In order to do my job, I need dozens and dozens of windows open and accessible VERY quickly. Sometimes I need a subset of those on the screen at once at the same time. Not only that, but while looking at 8 small windows explorer windows at the same time for servers and file transfers, I am talking to 4 people at the same time.

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shakey    1,127

Windows 8 is just redundant. I don't need apps for what I can reach in a second on my bookmark list in my browser. I don't need anything that 8 offers, because icons on desktop/toolbar/whereever are the same thing. Metro seems like it was developed for kids. Bright colors, big boxes... these are things they use to teach kids.

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Dot Matrix    7,417

Sigh....Again, how is using the computer THE WAY I WANT TO holding back technology? I get the latest hardware, I use my tablet for things that I do not need my $4,000 workstation for. Using old usage paradigms is not holding back technology. So ever since Windows 95, we have been stuck technologically speaking? What about massive processor enhancements that OMG the old paradigm supports? hyper-threading and multi-core are NEW technologies. A new UI paradigm is just a new UI Paradigm, not a new technology. PCI Express is a new technology that works on things other than Windows 8. THESE are new technologies. How is using the 9x paradigm holding us back exactly?

You are not talking about technology here. Technology is evolving meaning we get SSDs, new processors, top of the line graphics cards, tablets, and so on. Your "holding back technology" does not make sense when we are talking about USAGE PARADIGMS.

Yes we now have tablets, but the DESKTOP will always remain the same, and the way we use it for work.

"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few." It's not just about you. Windows 8 is about the ecosystem, and for that ecosystem to work, sacrifices need made. Ever since Windows 95, Microsoft got stuck between a rock and a hard place - the UI has been virtually the same since, mainly because of backwards compatibility. But that model is unsustainable. There comes a point where it becomes too much, and you have to make a clean break if you wish to move forward. What you're talking about is system hardware - something Windows 8 doesn't abandon, but we have new technologies that are going to change the way we interact with machines - and yes, that includes touch and motion input on desktop PCs. New technologies Win32 can't handle. Not to mention the WinRT API is more secure and stable from the ground up from the start. Unifying devices not only reduces support, but eliminates unnecessary complexity. As development moves forward with Windows 8 apps, you're going to see less need for the Win32 desktop. Windows 8 is a clear break from the old. It will only continue from there.

I had an old college professor that was teaching a Windows course, and swore by the CLI, he cursed Microsoft daily for not allowing him to continue using it like the way he wanted. He wanted to boot directly to it, but couldn't. And now, it is obsolete.

If you want to do you, perhaps Linux is in your future. But, you cannot sell a consumer OS, and focus on the individual. It would fail. Hard.

No it is NOT. In order to do my job, I need dozens and dozens of windows open and accessible VERY quickly. Sometimes I need a subset of those on the screen at once at the same time. Not only that, but while looking at 8 small windows explorer windows at the same time for servers and file transfers, I am talking to 4 people at the same time.

And as Metro matures, you too will be able to do this, but file management looks like it's going by the wayside, just look at how Metro apps handles files.

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