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Linux, as a Whole

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68k    290

If you can't be bothered trying to get something working under (or at least experiment with) Linux, then you're:

a. lazy

b. not willing to learn new things

...and therefore, not a true computing enthusiast.

Learning about the command line and Linux was one of the best things I ever did. It has helped out so many times over the years (especially with recovering Windows machines, and configuring servers at work).

Oh, and if you don't know what a window manager is, don't comment here about Linux being "slow" or "it doesn't look good".

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68k    290

I do understand that some software (Office, many CAD programs) are Windows only. Tough. But this doesn't bother me. Being an enthusiast, I'd rather have good experience with as many OSs as I can (including Haiku OS!).

Go on, try out the KNOPPIX DVD or openSUSE with KDE Live CD, thoroughly, and then comment.

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Praetor    987

Also, anyone who says you can't do the same work in OpenOffice/Libre/Google Docs is crazy. I haven't used a Microsoft Office product for years now.

if the work load is somewhat light then yes, those are good alternatives; if you are a poweruser then MS Office is the only choice, imho.

PS: open/libre office UX is atrocious.

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HawkMan    5,162

If you can't be bothered trying to get something working under (or at least experiment with) Linux, then you're:

a. lazy

b. not willing to learn new things

...and therefore, not a true computing enthusiast.

Learning about the command line and Linux was one of the best things I ever did. It has helped out so many times over the years (especially with recovering Windows machines, and configuring servers at work).

Oh, and if you don't know what a window manager is, don't comment here about Linux being "slow" or "it doesn't look good".

Well the thing is we're talkign two different issues here

I know how to use the linux terminal and I know how to fix problems. But linux is dedicated to my "play and experiment" machines, I really can't be bothered with it on my actual usage machines, because I would rather have something that works than something I need to tweak around and fix and fiddle with to get working properly.

Then you have the regular people they neither want nor should need to learn this. has nothing to do with being lazy, just with this is stuff they shouldn't need to know, and they have no interest in knowing.

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guitmz    103

I haven't had a single issue with Linux so far. I'm a user since late 90's (started with zipslack on my P166 MMX) and a Windows user since Windows 95. I have a Windows 8 partition because I have the key from uni and yes, it's usefull for me for gaming ONLY. But everytime I think in installing a game, I try first on Linux and usually it works. Older games will work w/o a doubt and a LOT of 'new' games also will (Guild Wars 2 , The Witcher are just 2 examples of what I have installed today on Linux). For those who are lazy, you can just have PlayOnLinux (which has a huge compatibility library and even the testing scipts works mostly fine and it's also the same thing for OSX users, they have PlayOnMac). To have a dual boot machine is a piece of cake and to reboot to Windows for games, isn't anything from another world, takes less than a minute for most PC's. To say that Linux doesn't have a good hardware compatibility is to be stupid... Seriously, I never had a single issue with hardware on Linux, the most boring thing I had to do was perhaps find a wireless driver and "compile" it with module assistant, which isn't even hard. Oh one thing I had a problem which I couldn't fix was a usb monitor adapter but I don't have time to write a driver and that piece of junk adapter we have here isn't compatible even with Windows 7 so it's not a Linux limitation. Regarding Office, I agree somethings might be easier/better on MS software but for general use, OpenOffice is more than perfect.

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ichi    356

If you did any work inthefield, even home amateur stuff, you'd know that maya and max are two tools, while somewhat tenter changeable, they are ot fully, and they are generally used for different things.

So no, still good example. The majority of work done in max, doesn't translate well to maya, max on theotherhand, is nearly as good as maya at nurbs modeling which is the primary use for maya.

I've only done a bit of modelling with 3dsmax (and that was back in the 2.5 version). I know 3DS has some cool stuff like biped that simplify your work, but that still doesn't make Maya less of a valid alternative, even while not a direct drop-in replacement.

There must surely be something going for Maya when it's used so often for CGI in movies instead of 3dsmax.

And then you also have XSI.

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f0rk_b0mb    698

I need to tweak around and fix and fiddle with to get working properly.

Once you get it tweaked to your likeing, you don't have to tweak it anymore. Let's say you have Kubuntu installed and want to reinstall but would like to keep all your settings. You can!

sudo dolphin

View hidden files in dolphin

copy your .kde folder to a flash drive

Reinstall

Replace .kde folder with the one on your flash drive.

Reboot

Profit

When's the last time Windows could do that? Could you imagine deploying 50-60 computers that need to have the same settings and all you have to do is drag and drop a folder over? Which brings up another point: You have to tweak and configure Windows and OS X, the same. Your argument is invalid.

Then you have the regular people they neither want nor should need to learn this.

Day one on Ubuntu 10.04, I was useing CLI.

sudo apt-get install gimp was the first cmd I typed in. You should have seen the smile on my face. More interested, I read books, I googled things, I fourm hopped. Learning linux, trying things, screwing it up, wash rinse repeat is all part of the fun.

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Praetor    987

I haven't had a single issue with Linux so far (...)

Oh one thing I had a problem which I couldn't fix was a usb monitor adapter (...)

so you never had or you had a problem? What gives? :)

Right now Linux is very user friendly (ubuntu) and bleeding edge (fedora), but that wasn't the case 13 years ago, when me and my collegues were fiddling with Slackware and then Gentoo for the very first time. Also like Hawkman said if a OS can do allot of things but requires time and experimentalism for them to work then it's not suited for your everyday needs.

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firey    3,622

Once you get it tweaked to your likeing, you don't have to tweak it anymore. Let's say you have Kubuntu installed and want to reinstall but would like to keep all your settings. You can!

sudo dolphin

View hidden files in dolphin

copy your .kde folder to a flash drive

Reinstall

Replace .kde folder with the one on your flash drive.

Reboot

Profit

When's the last time Windows could do that? Could you imagine deploying 50-60 computers that need to have the same settings and all you have to do is drag and drop a folder over? Which brings up another point: You have to tweak and configure Windows and OS X, the same. Your argument is invalid.

Same goes for even just standard linux setup. Basic installs have you do something like:

/dev/sda1 -> Main Install

/dev/sda2 -> Swap (though some are moving away from this)

/dev/sda3 -> Users Home Directory

Want to re-install? Wipe /dev/sda1 re-nstall OS, make user with same name as before, it will link to /dev/sda3, and all settings/files are there. You now have a clean install with all the old settings and files your user had from the last install. Yes it can be done on windows, but you have to consciously do it, linux is setup to do it by default. Yes you may have to install a couple apps, but that can be done with a script and many package managers let you put unlimited packages in the get so can install everything in one go.

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HawkMan    5,162

I've only done a bit of modelling with 3dsmax (and that was back in the 2.5 version). I know 3DS has some cool stuff like biped that simplify your work, but that still doesn't make Maya less of a valid alternative, even while not a direct drop-in replacement.

There must surely be something going for Maya when it's used so often for CGI in movies instead of 3dsmax.

And then you also have XSI.

Maya is used a lot in film, partly because of tradition partly because of nurbs, nurbs is and has been mostly replaced by poly modeling though, where Max is better, However, while Maya is more used in film. Max has a few million more users in Matte art, game modellers, and smaller studios.

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Praetor    987

Once you get it tweaked to your likeing, you don't have to tweak it anymore. Let's say you have Kubuntu installed and want to reinstall but would like to keep all your settings. You can!

Sorry but that's not always the case. See i have this system app that i need to upgrade on fedora 16 64bits (to use the new features) but it didn't work; tested the new version on ubuntu 32 bit and worked...a couple of hours and some Linux foruns later i realized the amount of time i was wasting in that issue i had time to boot Windows, make all the work i need to do and go to bed.

sometimes i have time to develop and experiment, but my time is very limited and precious to waste on looking for solutions for software that *should* work.

sudo apt-get install gimp was the first cmd I typed in. You should have seen the smile on my face. More interested, I read books, I googled things, I fourm hopped. Learning linux, trying things, screwing it up, wash rinse repeat is all part of the fun.

if i put someone with basic knowledge of a computer working on CLI that person would just quit. and i understand why: even if it's more powerfull using CLI than GUI, the majoraty of computer users are much more used to work in GUI than CLI.

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HawkMan    5,162

Same goes for even just standard linux setup. Basic installs have you do something like:

/dev/sda1 -> Main Install

/dev/sda2 -> Swap (though some are moving away from this)

/dev/sda3 -> Users Home Directory

Want to re-install? Wipe /dev/sda1 re-nstall OS, make user with same name as before, it will link to /dev/sda3, and all settings/files are there. You now have a clean install with all the old settings and files your user had from the last install. Yes it can be done on windows, but you have to consciously do it, linux is setup to do it by default. Yes you may have to install a couple apps, but that can be done with a script and many package managers let you put unlimited packages in the get so can install everything in one go.

I've had several linux installs that refused to work at all unless I wiped the home directory, or more specifically the configs in them. so that's not entirely true.

Once you get it tweaked to your likeing, you don't have to tweak it anymore. Let's say you have Kubuntu installed and want to reinstall but would like to keep all your settings. You can!

sudo dolphin

View hidden files in dolphin

copy your .kde folder to a flash drive

Reinstall

Replace .kde folder with the one on your flash drive.

Reboot

Profit

When's the last time Windows could do that? Could you imagine deploying 50-60 computers that need to have the same settings and all you have to do is drag and drop a folder over? Which brings up another point: You have to tweak and configure Windows and OS X, the same. Your argument is invalid.

Day one on Ubuntu 10.04, I was useing CLI.

sudo apt-get install gimp was the first cmd I typed in. You should have seen the smile on my face. More interested, I read books, I googled things, I fourm hopped. Learning linux, trying things, screwing it up, wash rinse repeat is all part of the fun.

select registry branch, export, doubleclick to import, profit ?

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firey    3,622

I've had several linux installs that refused to work at all unless I wiped the home directory, or more specifically the configs in them. so that's not entirely true.

I find that interesting.. as I did it just the other day with my Arch. Re-installed it as a 64bit system, kept my home directory, everything worked 100%. I had to re-install a couple apps, but as soon as I did their configurations were loaded and it was as if I had not just wiped the install partition and updated to 64bit. So as someone who has done it personally and had it work, I believe that there must have been something else wrong with your install.

With the amount of data I store in my documents/desktop/home folder it would take forever to back it all up to a flash drive, which I would have to do if I wanted to completely format and wipe windows (using a standard FS Setup). Don't get me wrong, I use Windows far, far, far more than Linux. However Linux as a Whole is a great OS base.

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Praetor    987

(...) However Linux as a Whole is a great OS base.

true dat.

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Mindovermaster    919
... Linux as a Whole is a great OS base.

It took 20 pages to say that? Wow...

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f0rk_b0mb    698

Sorry but that's not always the case. See i have this system app that i need to upgrade on fedora 16 64bits (to use the new features) but it didn't work; tested the new version on ubuntu 32 bit and worked...a couple of hours and some Linux foruns later i realized the amount of time i was wasting in that issue i had time to boot Windows, make all the work i need to do and go to bed.

sometimes i have time to develop and experiment, but my time is very limited and precious to waste on looking for solutions for software that *should* work.

How did you test the new version in Ubuntu? Was it compiled for rpm and deb? Interesting...never had an issue like that before. What app was it? As for the CLI thing, I'll agree with you the average user would not know what to do with it.

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Praetor    987

How did you test the new version in Ubuntu? Was it compiled for rpm and deb? Interesting...never had an issue like that before. What app was it? As for the CLI thing, I'll agree with you the average user would not know what to do with it.

it was a new version of NetworkManager http://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/ that i need it back then.

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HawkMan    5,162

I find that interesting.. as I did it just the other day with my Arch. Re-installed it as a 64bit system, kept my home directory, everything worked 100%. I had to re-install a couple apps, but as soon as I did their configurations were loaded and it was as if I had not just wiped the install partition and updated to 64bit. So as someone who has done it personally and had it work, I believe that there must have been something else wrong with your install.

With the amount of data I store in my documents/desktop/home folder it would take forever to back it all up to a flash drive, which I would have to do if I wanted to completely format and wipe windows (using a standard FS Setup). Don't get me wrong, I use Windows far, far, far more than Linux. However Linux as a Whole is a great OS base.

did I say it happened in every situation?

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f0rk_b0mb    698

did I say it happened in every situation?

Did he say it works for everyone? He said it work for him 100%. What situation wouldn't it work in?

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tim_s    42

My 500 cents,

For the last 3 years (ish), I was using Linux full-time 100% both at work and at home. This marked the time-frame when my friends lost interest in PC Gaming and focused on console gaming and with the purchase of the Xbox 360 + PS3, managing a PC for gaming just did not make sense and thus ended my only serious requirement for Windows.

At the time Arch was great for work and Gentoo for home use and no complaints - but I have been deploying Linux for over 10+ years and thus nothing new about this. - In fact I enjoyed the speed advantage, the customization, the greater control, the greater security, the openness and the philosophy.

It was not until about 3 months ago when gaming as a whole started fading out amongst my group (age - just getting older) and what is left of the group is PC based. I tried fighting with Wine and this worked to some extent but on another level - games represent recreation and in the end "waiting" or "exploring" a solution is just not how you want to spend the small window frame of time.

So I built the windows machine in my signature and have enjoyed "The right tool for the right job" philosophy, even within my personal life.

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+Majesticmerc    871

So I built the windows machine in my signature and have enjoyed "The right tool for the right job" philosophy, even within my personal life.

This. A hundred million times this. I couldn't have said it better myself.

If you don't like Linux, then maybe it's not for you. I like Linux. I like fiddling with things, improving things, I like having an OS that is essentially built for me from the ground up. But I also have Windows for things like gaming, where Linux doesn't really compete. Not through lack of trying, but through basic lack of developer support. So I use both, I dual boot, and I don't have an issue with that.

I don't really understand people who try to make Linux turn into Windows. If you want Windows, use Windows. If you want Linux, use Linux. But if you want Windows and try and use Linux instead, you're gonna have a bad time. No amount of foruming, or googling, or wikiing, or moaning is ever going to make you truly happy, so just go get a Windows license.

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medhunter    30

This. A hundred million times this. I couldn't have said it better myself.

If you don't like Linux, then maybe it's not for you. I like Linux. I like fiddling with things, improving things, I like having an OS that is essentially built for me from the ground up. But I also have Windows for things like gaming, where Linux doesn't really compete. Not through lack of trying, but through basic lack of developer support. So I use both, I dual boot, and I don't have an issue with that.

I don't really understand people who try to make Linux turn into Windows. If you want Windows, use Windows. If you want Linux, use Linux. But if you want Windows and try and use Linux instead, you're gonna have a bad time. No amount of foruming, or googling, or wikiing, or moaning is ever going to make you truly happy, so just go get a Windows license.

This is the spirit.And afterall, Linux and FOSS is anout free choices.This is a profound concept in FOSS

My 500 cents,

For the last 3 years (ish), I was using Linux full-time 100% both at work and at home. This marked the time-frame when my friends lost interest in PC Gaming and focused on console gaming and with the purchase of the Xbox 360 + PS3, managing a PC for gaming just did not make sense and thus ended my only serious requirement for Windows.

At the time Arch was great for work and Gentoo for home use and no complaints - but I have been deploying Linux for over 10+ years and thus nothing new about this. - In fact I enjoyed the speed advantage, the customization, the greater control, the greater security, the openness and the philosophy.

It was not until about 3 months ago when gaming as a whole started fading out amongst my group (age - just getting older) and what is left of the group is PC based. I tried fighting with Wine and this worked to some extent but on another level - games represent recreation and in the end "waiting" or "exploring" a solution is just not how you want to spend the small window frame of time.

So I built the windows machine in my signature and have enjoyed "The right tool for the right job" philosophy, even within my personal life.

Almost the same here.But I didn't go back to PC Gaming,yet....

I was confident that Linux is for Computer O.S work. Xbox 360 is for Gaming

Windows is just for things can't be done on both(a hardware piece, Indispensable programs).

This way, I use Linux almost all the time.I Game on XBox 360.I rebooted to Win7 almost 3 times last month(one of them, because my Linux unaware brother couldn't log in to Ubuntu 12.10 x64).

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Karl L.    275

I don't really understand people who try to make Linux turn into Windows. If you want Windows, use Windows. If you want Linux, use Linux. But if you want Windows and try and use Linux instead, you're gonna have a bad time. No amount of foruming, or googling, or wikiing, or moaning is ever going to make you truly happy, so just go get a Windows license.

I completely agree. I know I've said it before, but I believe that one of the major hangups people have using Linux is that they expect it to work like Windows, and it doesn't. The Linux philosophy is quite different.

One of the first things that frustrates people trying out Ubuntu or some other Linux distro, especially techies, is software installation from the Internet. Essentially, they don't understand the typical Linux approach to software management: repositories. Often entwined with that problem is the lack of understanding about the state of proprietary drivers in Linux. People assume that the nVidia or AMD proprietary display drivers are obviously superior to their open-source clones, which is not necessarily the case, especially for older graphics cards. Those same people will then proceed to download the driver blob from the manufacturer's website, which is what you would normally do in Windows but isn't usually a good idea in Linux, and don't understand how to install it.

Canonical has attempted to solve both of these problems with their personal package archives (PPAs) and their Additional Drivers tool for installing proprietary drivers in Ubuntu. The problem isn't how well existing implementations in Linux work; its mentality. The typical Linux solution isn't necessary better than the Windows solution; its just different. I'll get off my soap box now...

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Mindovermaster    919

I completely agree. I know I've said it before, but I believe that one of the major hangups people have using Linux is that they expect it to work like Windows, and it doesn't. The Linux philosophy is quite different.

One of the first things that frustrates people trying out Ubuntu or some other Linux distro, especially techies, is software installation from the Internet. Essentially, they don't understand the typical Linux approach to software management: repositories. Often entwined with that problem is the lack of understanding about the state of proprietary drivers in Linux. People assume that the nVidia or AMD proprietary display drivers are obviously superior to their open-source clones, which is not necessarily the case, especially for older graphics cards. Those same people will then proceed to download the driver blob from the manufacturer's website, which is what you would normally do in Windows but isn't usually a good idea in Linux, and don't understand how to install it.

Canonical has attempted to solve both of these problems with their personal package archives (PPAs) and their Additional Drivers tool for installing proprietary drivers in Ubuntu. The problem isn't how well existing implementations in Linux work; its mentality. The typical Linux solution isn't necessary better than the Windows solution; its just different. I'll get off my soap box now...

And I've seen that first hand. The propietry drivers for my 5770 sucked. Then Orange here helped me to install the open-source Xorg drivers. What may be obvious is not always the best decision.

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redvamp128    321

I completely agree. I know I've said it before, but I believe that one of the major hangups people have using Linux is that they expect it to work like Windows, and it doesn't. The Linux philosophy is quite different.

One of the first things that frustrates people trying out Ubuntu or some other Linux distro, especially techies, is software installation from the Internet. Essentially, they don't understand the typical Linux approach to software management: repositories. Often entwined with that problem is the lack of understanding about the state of proprietary drivers in Linux.

Yes you should also mention the state of some Video codecs... that one would have to agree to be installed. this is what people also complain about.

Why won't X video play but it does in Windows-- Not realizing that When you agree to install Windows you also agree to those terms as well..

If the first time user of linux would not say but OSX or Windows does it like that and realize that Linux still does the same thing.

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