scoult01 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 and why can neo do matrix type stuff out side the matrix?? how can Neo "see" the code for the real world??? Did you actually watch the movie? The Oracle told you why he can. And 2nd, if you have seen the animatrix you will know that at the start all the machines wanted was PEACE, so when Neo came to them offering that, and did something for them in return (get rid of smith), they finally got their peace. It was infact the humans that started the war... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kioria Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 scoult01 ahh good point. never relised that part... damn that makes more sense overall. how ironical. stupid humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuja Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Its not the 6th matrix. Neo is the 6th anomaly, and counting by matrix's, this is the 3rd. "The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version." "The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother. Neo - The Oracle. The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuja Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 The edit button went poof, therefore I have to double post... sorry. The reason humans are used, is because of the fact that humans rejected 01, and initiated war on 01. The machines, fighting back, and studying humans for X number of years, used humans as an available and abundant power source when humans blackened the sky (Solar power being their main source of power) (One of the animatrix's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 The Animatrix explains a lot of things, definetely have to see that to understand everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold! My Pants Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Problems i have with the matrix series - so apparantly at the time of the 1st matrix movie, agents apparantly have no idea that there have been other matrices of which they presumably have been a part (aka agent smith questioning morpheus) i mean, why do they need morpheus's access codes if they know that they can just drill down to Zion. Why would Smith want to get rid of Zion if they were only going to make a new zion, thus forcing smith back into the matrix (which he detests) and clearly he would know this because he knew about the first matrix, and thus is would stand to reason that he knew about the 6 other matrices. also, i bet the machines were laughing their asses off when neo calls them and is like "i don't know how its going to end, but i do know how its going to begin" and the machines had been orchestrating/planning on this happening all along. there are zero agents in the 3rd movie. why don't the machines realize that smith went awol on them? and why would they even let there be sentient programs? i would think that machines would not be as subject to loopholes/things lost for a while. why did the machines even create the matrix? hello? just put them all asleep and paralyze them. then, even if they wake up, they can't do anything, and all of your problems are eliminated. too much oversight for a machine, which (according to the animatrix) was very smart. this was also brought up in some article someone posted...how could droping a shiatload of nukes on Zero One not kill/destroy the machines? that's total bullshiat. the heat & emp would own them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 i still dont understand why some of you dont understand my theory. Most of you hit on stuff and then turn around and contradict yourselves. think of this way, why in world would you put a human santuary so close to the main city of the machines? wouldnt you want to put it on the otherside of the world. it took neo and trinity like 10 seconds to get above ground, find the main city and crash land where the Source was. weird huh? also w/ the use of humans as energy, again i CANT stress this enough, it would take MORE effort = energy to build and maintain such a crappy system. so what if they cloned trillions of humans, it would take them atleast a thousand years to do so. why not build like 10 nuke plantsin 1 month?? easier to build, maintain and get infinitly better efficent energy!! and a VR world? use a cow!! no need for a stupid VR system and you can chemically sedate the cows forever!! an elephant would be better since they can live just as long as humans and produce a better BTU rate. seriously go back and watch Reloaded and assume all the characters are part of my theory. the humans are robots and the machines are in a matrix of their own. the movie will make more sense. as for the end of it when Neo talks to the Architect, he speaks in riddles and for the most part his statements are ambiguous. it could go either way. lets work more deeply w/ my theory... lets assume that the oracle is a human entity keeping tabs on the machines in the "real world" she is the one who knows all and keeps in check the "anomolies" like Neo from finding the truth. (read plato's cave) Lets then assume the Archetect is really a human or group of humans that designed the matrix to emulate a orderly civilization. when he talks about "The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother. " - thanks for the quote ~ kuja if we break it down again w/ the assumption that the machines live in a dream world and Neo is a robot... "... i redesigned it based on 'your' history..." this could mean the first matrix failed because the machines in their history revolted against its masters like in real life and thus the simulation was a failure. "...the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. " the "lesser mind" i think would talk about the machine AI. the AI is flawed in the way that the humans designed it in its image. humans can be easily tricked in to thinking anything, for example wining of a war. IF the humans reprogrammed the AI after disabling it w/ nukes and the EMP blasts, one could say "hey, you win" the AI inherently flawed by human thinking will continue to think that after event. and the part about "a mind less bound by the parameters of perfections." machines are perfection, 1+1 ALWAYS equals 2 (dont give me that binary BS), but when he talks about a mind not controlled by perfection he could mean that the AI is NOT perfect, thus humans could have reprogrammed it to be a winner a deam. this is undoubtedly correct!! and the ONE thing that gets me is that IF the Architect was right about destoying Zion before, wouldnt that make Zion fake????? think about it, the architect told Neo that if he chose to save Zion and not Trinity he would choose 6 men and 8 women (or what ever ratio) and rebuild Zion thats like re-installing Zion like a PROGRAM with updated software!!! a reinstall of Zion w/ updated info. the cycle starts again.... ZION IS FAKE, ITS A MATRIX OUTSIDE OF THE MATRIX!!! why cant you see that??? and the word MATRIX... http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=matrix if i were to draw a mathmatical matrix i would look like a 3 layer matrix 5 on the outside, 3 in the middle 1 in the center. the REAL world would be the outside the machine worlds or "real world" in the middle and the MATRIX in the center in the definition it says that: "A rectangular array of numeric or algebraic quantities subject to mathematical operations" so if you manipulate any data in the mathmatical matrix it changed other data in every ring or position of the matrix. this is why you have people like the Oracle who keep those in check and the Architect to re-do the matrix so that the outermost ring of the matrix isnt effected~ the real world. most of you obviously havent read the story of plato's cave. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~loxias/p...ato/thecave.gif those people who are shackled and can only see the shadows created by the people in the cave behind them in front of the fire are the people in Zion and the Matrix. the people in the cave above the shacked prisoners are the machines watching over the shacked can manipulate the shadows w/ the fire. this will let the shacked understand that what they see is either fake or real. for the most part the ones who see it as real are the people in the matrix. the ones who know its fake are the ones like Morph and Trinity and Neo. there is a way out of the cave, but no one in the cave knows about it. if someone to find out then the whole society in the cave will collapse since the just realized that they live in fake society. thats why you have the oracle at the mouth of the cave manipulating the light from the cave just like the fire above. inside the cave EVERYONE even the ones messing w/ the fire above thinks its the fire they are manipulating dont know that there is a tunnel out w/ light that can be manipulated. this is where i think that the machine world is a matrix and the "matrix" or the VR world for the human prisoners is a Matrix within a Matrix. everything else in the movie plays into to this. so when the Architect speaks of destroying Zion you can make the connection that they are destroying the cave to start over. the power of choice is taken into account when Neo makes a decision to have the cave detroyed, everything reset and build a different way. there are too many plot holes in this movie for anyone of you to think that this movie is a work of art. there are so many key points that are so illogical its rediculous. if you can believe into it you are either gullable or just plain stubborn to understand the truth of the whole story. if the Wachoski brothers wrote this and call it finished then a third grader could write an academy award winning movie and make millions. if the brothers finished this movie by following my theory then this movie would be sweet as hell!!! i would give so much respect to them for it, until then i would rather watch a rotton pieice my crap be eaten by maggots than watch this so called "epic trilogy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaOddie Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Guys, it's just a movie.......sit, look and enjoy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perochan Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I just got back from seeing Revolutions, and it kicked ass. My only disappointment was the ending (or lack of an ending) and the fact that my two favourite characters, the Twins, never made an appearance. My only hope is that there isn't a fourth one.By the way, most of the audience cried when you know who died, but I managed to hold it in. :( I keep wondering what twin you are talking about. Are you talking about the ghost twins in Matrix Reloaded? Well, they died "again" in the car explosion remember? they died?? I thought they just blasted and flew away and heal themselves and come back to kick Neo and others' asses. haha~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyre Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I'll only add this quote to the discussion... "Combined with a type of fusion, the machines had found all the power they ever needed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snocked Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 What's with the homosexual rave scene in Reloaded? I almost gave head to the guy sitting next to me in the theatre during that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VII Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 (edited) neo dies, trinity dies, smith dies... architect uses his ergo cordordantly vis-a-vis talk on the oracle and she lets him go down on her... then again she knew that would happen.. so she sat there purposely thus leaving her future inevitable to allow him to give her the good tongue... and france backs down again... Edited November 6, 2003 by VII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 1. Shifty its an intresting perspective to the movies, but movies are movies, and what we saw was the movie, and how it concluded. 2. Did anyone not try and find a remote control to fast-forward past the trinity/neo crap, particulary at the end. 3. I gotta say Smith was alot cooler, when he didnt fly. He kept his cool. and he had no emotions. Personally I feel revolutions ruined the smith villian, but what can you do. 4. Has anyone else noticed a current trend in hollywood to leave big blockbuster movie, without any shred of a definitive ending. Most recent movies that come to mind are T3, and now the matrix. Theres gotta be a point were you put making money off a hundred sequels aside, and just god damn give the fans whove paid money to see all the other movies in the series, a god-damn proper ending. I mean come on. T3, and the matrix was left with such a wide open ending you could back another 5 sequels into the damn thing. 5. Despite these apparent ramblings or rants, all in all my only major gripe with the movie was the ending, apart from that was time and entertainment well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoult01 Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 What's with the homosexual rave scene in Reloaded?I almost gave head to the guy sitting next to me in the theatre during that part. Titties are homosexual? :blink: :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borbus Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Has anyone else noticed a current trend in hollywood to leave big blockbuster movie, without any shred of a definitive ending. Most recent movies that come to mind are T3, and now the matrix.Very interesting point OsirisHaving read the book I know also that Return of the King will leave a bit open at the end. This is the book not the film but it will probably be the same in the film. I agree with you on the reason for this. If T3 was a really big hit they might want to make T4 so they need some previous story to ppick up on. I don't think there will be more Matrix films but they may release books, comic strips or more animatrix episodes covering the "What happens next" aspect. What's with the homosexual rave scene in Reloaded? Snocked how was the rave scene in reloaded homosexual??!! I keep wondering what twin you are talking about. Are you talking about the ghost twins in Matrix Reloaded? Well, they died "again" in the car explosion remember? I don't think the twins died but they certainly got blasted quite a distance. They turned into ghosts and weren't harmed by the explosion. They only appeared in the car chase in Reloaded because the Merovingian told them to get the KeyMaker. They had no place in Reloaded since every program was looking for Morpheus and Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snocked Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 raves=gay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borbus Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 I dont know what the hell you mean A bloke dancing with a woman is not gay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uniacidz Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Ermmm its not real you know fellas. Just a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insurektion Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 heheh people getting worked up. the ending was great neo dies. the oracle sayingwe'll be seeing him might hold reference to the christian-like parraells (ie christ rises after 3 days) smith was awesome and when they looked stupid it was Caricatures of other things ie the kid was overplayed as the little side from westerns and such smith was overly evil with his laugh and pretty much emotionless (- the ending) anyways i was highly impresed with all the fight scenes and cannot wait to purchase this on dvd so i can watch the special effects at 1/32 x to see flaws lol. SUPER GOOD MOVIE. WATCH IT IF YOU LIKED THE FIRST!!!! oh ya raves suck man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakyfriday Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 i just saw the second movie tonight, can't wait until i see the 3rd one :) my mom did not understand the move so i explained it to her. she said what a weird movie :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus- Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 (edited) Ermmm its not real you know fellas.Just a story. or is it?... :shifty: Just kidding it cant possibly be real heh lol yeah i hate all these "ending" movies with wide endings like rev and t3. as far as t3 was concerned i had trouble stomaching how much the fembot was capable of i was like wow liguid like and could still cary a gun type thing and a flamethrower on her :no: i dont quite believe that is possible with what machines and robotics are capable of but besides that the part that really got me was that "magnetic" scene were she made the buzsaw to cut the machine while she was melting to it. I dont, IMO, think that that would have been possible if she was being magnatised to it but whatever :rolleyes: ill go with it. Note to Shifty: you say they ought to have used cows instead of humans. I take it that cows didnt even exist at that time since i dont see any other animal in the real word I only notice 2 things humans and robots didnt see a squirle, a cat, a dog, didnt see any animal nata nothing so i think using a cow as an energy source is not really a possibility but to whoever decided paralyse them and put them in a coma yeah i agree good idea and then none of them woulda needed a matrix Here is my take on the whole "we will see neo again little girl" situation: Neo is dead and col. sanders (forgot his real name) says they will let all the people still jacked in go, ok so no need for a matrix or serif (sp?), or an oracle or programs, agents, city, etc. so they would all be shutdown or erased or turned off (however you would take that) ( to them they would die) err right? well i figure shes saying they would all meet up in the after life. Edited November 9, 2003 by divertom15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggareis Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Here is my take on the whole "we will see neo again little girl" situation: Neo is dead and col. sanders (forgot his real name) says they will let all the people still jacked in go, ok so no need for a matrix or serif (sp?), or an oracle or programs, agents, city, etc. so they would all be shutdown or erased or turned off (however you would take that) ( to them they would die) err right? well i figure shes saying they would all meet up in the after life. Wrong he said they would let go those who wanted to leave...........but I still think there would be many who were happy with their existence in the matrix, and not want to leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron901 Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 i haven't read the whole thread so i don't know whether this has been asked. but i guess you can enlighten me. how can the programs have human emotions? by that i mean love. and Siti, is she a program or human? since Rama-Kandra and Kamala are both programs, did they actually make love or the architect just gave them a daughter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 The little girl is a program. She is evidence that Smith was wrong....programs can feel. Her's was love...thus the sunset at the end for Neo. Which brings me to my point. The last shot was the oracle, the dude, and the kid in the Matrix, but why were the colors "normal". Throughout the movies, the Matrix-part has had that green tint to everything. Yet this time it was normal. I don't quite get that. Everything else I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron901 Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 and where does Oracle come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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