Is Microsoft going too far?


Do you think Microsoft is gettign too big and too powerfull?  

86 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Microsoft is gettign too big and too powerfull?

    • Yes
      35
    • No
      51


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* Sparkle is set to kill Flash and possibly director, an i'll bet sparkle wont work in other non MS operating systems

* WMA and other proprtietory MS formats which remain Windows exclusive

* Windows XP basicly forced everybody to start a MSN Messenger account (which gave MSN an unfair edge over other IM clients)

* Internet Explorer was integrated into the Windows shell, MS didn't include any other browsers with Windows, so most Windows users use IE, which ultimatley killed Netscape (although it did strengthen Mozilla I suppose)

* MS is developing a search engine to kill Google

* MS attempts to take over Google

* Digital rights management stops people from using other programs to edit files

* MS invents its own version of JavaScript called "JScript", that contains several small differences that prevent pages displaying properly on non IE browsers (unless you re-write sections of the code for other browsers)

* Possible new patch allowing MS to change files on a person's operating systems

* MS has strict guidelines on how vendors set up Windows based PC's, all included software shortcuts on desktop must be accompanied my MS equivelents (where possible), or no software is to be included on the desktop

* The XBOX

* Have you ever looked at Microsoft owned web sites through Firebird or another similar browser. You'll probably notice the MS sites rarely work properly with other browsers. This makes people switch back to IE, because they think other browsers arent as capable.

* So many more points that I cant think of right now

* Pocket PC and Pocket PC Phone Edition

For the record, im not totally anti-Microsoft, they do make some quality software, but it really scares me that they are slowly taking over everything.

We need competition in the IT industry, but MS is slowly killing all those who oppose them in any real way (either that or controling them) and they are constantly creeping into a more and more powerfull position.

While MS will never rule the world, they are slowly pushing themselves into a better position to dictate how we all use our computers. As software users I think we really need to re-evaluate who we support and give other companies a go.

The more software companies they acquire, and the more areas that they dominate, the more control MS can put on things. And they slowly start charging for more and more.

When all the competition is gone, either assimiated or destroyed by MS, there will be no need to provide great services, and there will no longer be any need to freely provide a lot of services, because there will be no one else trying to win your business. MS would be free to charge and do what they want.

Do you really want MS dictating how you use your equipment?

Anyways thats my bit of rambling, I'm interested in your opinions.

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no i dont believe so. i wasnt forced to get a msn account, i dont have an xbox, a lot of this stuff there is an alternative to, its just many people dont want to go through the trouble of finding it.

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* WMA and other proprtietory MS formats which remain Windows exclusive
WMA sucks. :pinch:
* Windows XP basicly forced everybody to start a MSN Messenger account (which gave MSN an unfair edge over other IM clients)

I didn't have to get one.

* Internet Explorer was integrated into the Windows shell, MS didn't include any other browsers with Windows, so most Windows users use IE, which ultimatley killed Netscape (although it did strengthen Mozilla I suppose)
Internet Explorer works. If people don't want to use it, they can download something else.
* MS is developing a search engine to kill Google

I'll still use Google. :D

* The XBOX

I don't have one.

Microsoft is not taking over the world. (Though, that would be really cool. :shifty: )

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Basicly im trying to point out that MS is slowly dominating each different type of software market. Yes lots of the products they use are good, and I use some of them.

I never claimed MS were going to take over the world

While MS will never rule the world, they are slowly pushing themselves into a better position to dictate how we all use our computers.

But most of MS's compeditiors are what you could call "under-dogs". They arent competeing with MS on a 50/50 basis, they are always on the lower end of the scale. MS can keep them under control by introducing features to Windows that only MS products can take advantage of (and this is anti compeditive).

I don't think MS should all of a sudden release its source code and instantly allow its compeditors access to everything. MS is a business and must do what it can to survive. If MS died another company would possibly take it's place. If MS does everything fairly then I'm not so much against it, but lets face it, the company uses its operating system to push its own products ahead of the rest.

For example, if MS included IE, Netscape and Opera with Windows, and IE still was dominant then I wouldnt have a problem with that.

When MS makes a change to its operating system and allows other compeditors to take advantage of the enhancement then IMO that is also alright.

When MS uses its operating system to control the competition and keep its own products ahead of the rest then I think that is wrong.

Perhaps I'm the only one who sees the big picture.

Edited by Jelly2003
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Microsoft works because Microsoft provides good quality....Anyone can compete with Microsoft....If they dont succeed it's because they dont provide the same quality that's all....

- I trid to install Linux several times.....of course i wasn't spare by this incompatibility problem...some of my peripheric devices could not be recognized....this is simply ridiculous....I'm not gonna choose my print by going thru their list of "accepted" or "tested" drivers.!!!!! ridiculous

- Mozilla might be free but the least we can ask a web browser is to play online radio or display the HTML toolbar of webmail !!!.....that's why i've gone with MSN Soft or ie....that's so ridiculous too...even more ridiculous as Netscape 4.3 correctly displayed these pages....go backward???? Ie is ten times more customizable ....how do you create a local shortcut ( to a drive or a software) in Mozilla link bar?

- Now Open Office might be free....but it has nothing to do with MS Office.....not that i use "every single " function of Office....but find me a good Windows alternative for Outlook .... i know none.

As far as what Microsoft does with it OS and what it integrates in it...I believe that they do what they want....as long as the customer can actually "choose" the OS he/she would like to have installed on his/her computer....I think that the problem lies there....Windows should not be embedded without our consent in computer...Also another problem is Linux self promotion....it is basically absent....How can a "normal" person know the difference between Lindows, Red Hat, Mandrake....?

Not that i am a Microsoft admirer ( well i guess i must be in some way !) but we certainly are generally badly informed about open source project....and it should not be "us" to go see what it means in details....they just dont get that

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Microsoft works because Microsoft provides good quality....Anyone can compete with Microsoft....If they dont succeed it's because they dont provide the same quality that's all....

- I trid to install Linux several times.....of course i wasn't spare by this incompatibility problem...some of my peripheric devices could not be recognized....this is simply ridiculous....I'm not gonna choose my print by going thru their list of "accepted" or "tested" drivers.!!!!! ridiculous

- Mozilla might be free but the least we can ask a web browser is to play online radio or display the HTML toolbar of webmail !!!.....that's why i've gone with MSN Soft or ie....that's so ridiculous too...even more ridiculous as Netscape 4.3 correctly displayed these pages....go backward???? Ie is ten times more customizable ....how do you create a local shortcut ( to a drive or a software) in Mozilla link bar?

- Now Open Office might be free....but it has nothing to do with MS Office.....not that i use "every single " function of Office....but find me a good Windows alternative for Outlook .... i know none.

As far as what Microsoft does with it OS and what it integrates in it...I believe that they do what they want....as long as the customer can actually "choose" the OS he/she would like to have installed on his/her computer....I think that the problem lies there....Windows should not be embedded without our consent in computer...Also another problem is Linux self promotion....it is basically absent....How can a "normal" person know the difference between Lindows, Red Hat, Mandrake....?

Not that i am a Microsoft admirer ( well i guess i must be in some way !) but we certainly are generally badly informed about open source project....and it should not be "us" to go see what it means in details....they just dont get that

clearly all those problems you had are from you being a linux nub

easy things to solve.

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MS rocks tell me how many home users excluding IT peopl even know there is another OS called Linux out there leave alone how to install one, Windows is easy it's simple it's comptiable and give the end users @ times limited but various options/choices to consider

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clearly all those problems you had are from you being a linux nub

easy things to solve.

What a good , worked out reply ....So convincing I'm sure everyone will use Linux from now on...

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clearly all those problems you had are from you being a linux nub

easy things to solve.

What a good , worked out reply ....So convincing I'm sure everyone will use Linux from now on...

I second him, i mean, if you say that you use MSN Soft (Referring to MSN Explorer I assume), then I would agree with anyone other than you, n00b.

- I trid to install Linux several times.....of course i wasn't spare by this incompatibility problem...some of my peripheric devices could not be recognized....this is simply ridiculous....I'm not gonna choose my print by going thru their list of "accepted" or "tested" drivers.!!!!! ridiculous
The install guides are so damn easy, I'm installing (Gentoo) Linux for the first time ever today, so simple, if you arn't capable, it's your problem
- Mozilla might be free but the least we can ask a web browser is to play online radio or display the HTML toolbar of webmail !!!.....that's why i've gone with MSN Soft or ie....that's so ridiculous too...even more ridiculous as Netscape 4.3 correctly displayed these pages....go backward???? Ie is ten times more customizable ....how do you create a local shortcut ( to a drive or a software) in Mozilla link bar?

Playing online radio is too bandwidth intensive if you use the browser as oppose to using a real program to do it, and i think that Mozilla can do it anyway

The HTML toolbar of webmail was designed by Microsoft not to work with mozilla, as stated as a complaint by Jelly2003

Netscape 4.3 displays it correctly because Microsoft didn't write something to disadvantage 4.x as they did with 5.x+

Mozilla (Firebird) is 17,058,645 bytes more customizeable because it's freaking opensource, IE doesn't even have skins if you wanted to have them, nor does it have a huge library of plugins to customise the browser, nor can you get like 5000 customization options just by typing "about:config" in the location bar

Making local shortcuts in the bookmarks is a freaking security risk, even Internet Explorer 3.x was exploited using that functionality.

- Now Open Office might be free....but it has nothing to do with MS Office.....not that i use "every single " function of Office....but find me a good Windows alternative for Outlook .... i know none.
Fine, but not everyone has $100+ to buy something jsut so they can view some DRM protected work sent to them
As far as what Microsoft does with it OS and what it integrates in it...I believe that they do what they want....as long as the customer can actually "choose" the OS he/she would like to have installed on his/her computer....

Windows comes preinstalled on most PCs, can't "choose" there.

If everything is integrated, how is a n00b meant to of known about the other fab software out there, let alone linux?

I think that the problem lies there....Windows should not be embedded without our consent in computer...Also another problem is Linux self promotion....it is basically absent....How can a "normal" person know the difference between Lindows, Red Hat, Mandrake....?
I'm "normal" and I know the difference
but we certainly are generally badly informed about open source project....and it should not be "us" to go see what it means in details....they just dont get that

at least you can finish your rant on a good note :yes: :)

Edited by Quick Reply
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then I would agree with anyone other than you, n00b.

enough to me....that was MY point of view...dont ask anyone to share it...I'm usually entitled to my opinion and refuse to take part in a pseudo trendy anti-Microsoft wave...

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I think they are actually going too far. But, if they go just a little bit farther, they'll get sued for being a monopoly again. :devil:

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enough to me....that was MY point of view...dont ask anyone to share it...I'm usually entitled to my opinion and refuse to take part in a pseudo trendy anti-Microsoft wave...

So you don't refuse to take part in a pseudo trendy wave that linux (or any other os) users are anti-Microsoft? :laugh:

lmao

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* Sparkle is set to kill Flash and possibly director, an i'll bet sparkle wont work in other non MS operating systems

- Won't work. Too much people are used to Flash.

- Noone forces you to use Sparkle.

- I think people got it wrong, it's main purpose will probably be to allow animations in XAML UIs

* WMA and other proprtietory MS formats which remain Windows exclusive

- It has been submitted to SMPTE and is open very soon. License fees apply, but then again, you need also to pay license fees for the other so-called open standards like MPEG-4.

* Windows XP basicly forced everybody to start a MSN Messenger account (which gave MSN an unfair edge over other IM clients)

- No it doesnt. I never started a MSN Messenger account EVER on that other box where after installing WinXP. Nor was I asked to.

* Internet Explorer was integrated into the Windows shell, MS didn't include any other browsers with Windows, so most Windows users use IE, which ultimatley killed Netscape (although it did strengthen Mozilla I suppose)

- **** happens. If MS chose to use HTML for several tasks, then there's no way around in integrating a HTML renderer. Apple uses Safari as default browser now, Joe Average doesn't have a clue how to deactivate it and use another browser (as the case is on Windows), where's the lawsuit against Apple?

* MS is developing a search engine to kill Google

- So what? It's theor godgiven rights to develop what they want. If they succeed, bad luck for Google. Ads on the MSN site will hinder any success.

* MS attempts to take over Google

- If they can, why not.

* Digital rights management stops people from using other programs to edit files

- As if MS is the only company in the whole universe developing and applying DRM techniques. And frankly, I don't see any DRM AT ALL except on music files bought online. Regarding the "success" of P2P sharing platforms, I can't blame companies for trying to protect their assets.

* MS invents its own version of JavaScript called "JScript", that contains several small differences that prevent pages displaying properly on non IE browsers (unless you re-write sections of the code for other browsers)

- Noone forces you to use it, especially since IE apparently can execute regular JavaScript.

* Possible new patch allowing MS to change files on a person's operating systems

- What the hell are you talking about.

* MS has strict guidelines on how vendors set up Windows based PC's, all included software shortcuts on desktop must be accompanied my MS equivelents (where possible), or no software is to be included on the desktop

- These guidelines are bare applied.

* The XBOX

- OMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

* Have you ever looked at Microsoft owned web sites through Firebird or another similar browser. You'll probably notice the MS sites rarely work properly with other browsers. This makes people switch back to IE, because they think other browsers arent as capable.

- So what? Do you want others to tell you how your website has to work?

* So many more points that I cant think of right now

- Nitpicking is fun, please continue.

* Pocket PC and Pocket PC Phone Edition

- Same as the XBOX, OMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! MS develops operating systems, now they're not allowed anymore?

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"Playing online radio is too bandwidth intensive if you use the browser as oppose to using a real program to do it, and i think that Mozilla can do it anyway"

might be too bandwith for some not for others....try to go to launch.yahoo.com....cant work....I would use Mozilla if it worked....it has a lot of features

"Windows comes preinstalled on most PCs, can't "choose" there."

That's what i said, I think we would be able to choose....Here MS is not fair play

"The install guides are so damn easy, I'm installing (Gentoo) Linux for the first time ever today, so simple, if you arn't capable, it's your problem"

Damn easy my a** . With Partition Magic i tried to install both XP and Mandrake in multi boot to no avail ...whatever the installation mode was....graphic or not....and oh yeh you have to go thru that long list of pseudo tested drivers....they dont even make a webscan to tell us what to download and what's useful for us....Oh but i guess a webscan is "security risk " right ? that's why all online anti virus do it

I agree that Miscrosoft may not be fair play with their MS HTML ... I guess we may also incriminate the webmaster in this case right?

"The first time I booted up XP two years ago until today I've felt insulted by the mickey mouse extremism of the cartoony graphics, and the attempt to make everything, every icon and link in there into something a toddler can understand until the terminology is over-generified simian gobbledy-gook. I half expected Yogi the Bear to wander out and start a tickle fight with Clippy. Gah, no, deliver me from a user interface that does nothing more then cater to the lowest common denominator of computer users."

THAT's exactly what i call "an anti-Microsoft" pseudo geek. I dont care what people use why should YOU care. we dont give a f*** about what the other use so. why breeding such a polemic debate?

Man it's a computer and whatever we use as a OS...there is one thing behind...a jealous wife

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try to go to launch.yahoo.com....cant work....I would use Mozilla if it worked....it has a lot of features

You can't really blame that on Mozilla, Yahoo doesn't give you a chance to try, "Sorry, we do not support Netscape version 6.".

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"You can't really blame that on Mozilla, Yahoo doesn't give you a chance to try, "Sorry, we do not support Netscape version 6."

Right but that's more Yahoo's fault than MS'....

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"You can't really blame that on Mozilla, Yahoo doesn't give you a chance to try, "Sorry, we do not support Netscape version 6."

Right but that's more Yahoo's fault than MS'....

I totally agree, same with the MS HTML part, most webmasters are just being lazy and not coding for anything else than IE.

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"The first time I booted up XP two years ago until today I've felt insulted by the mickey mouse extremism of the cartoony graphics, and the attempt to make everything, every icon and link in there into something a toddler can understand until the terminology is over-generified simian gobbledy-gook. I half expected Yogi the Bear to wander out and start a tickle fight with Clippy. Gah, no, deliver me from a user interface that does nothing more then cater to the lowest common denominator of computer users."

THAT's exactly what i call "an anti-Microsoft" pseudo geek. I dont care what people use why should YOU care. we dont give a f*** about what the other use so. why breeding such a polemic debate?

Man it's a computer and whatever we use as a OS...there is one thing behind...a jealous wife

Clearly a mistake making assumptions and judgements based on an internet forum signature.

Microsoft makes more than just operating systems.

Congratulate yourself.

You've now confirmed suspicions regarding your foolishness.

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Lol, its interesting how people interpreted what I said, like I said before, MS has the right to make it's own software and yes a lot of it is quality software.

I just don't approve of its business practices.

In the original list of stuff I wrote when I said "The XBOX" and "Pocket PC" I wasn't saying they were bad, but its amazing how many places you find MS these days.

- No it doesnt. I never started a MSN Messenger account EVER on that other box where after installing WinXP. Nor was I asked to.
Umm.. whenever I install XP i get heaps of nag screens asking me to register my passport with Windows. The average user is going to register their passport when the nag screen comes up. After the passport is registered MSN messenger opens up instantly upon starting the pc and its damn hard to get rid of (hard to disable and when you manually delete it Outlook Express doesnt work).

Windows Messenger currently covertly auto-opens on my pc. I get no taskbar icon or anything. I know its open because I get people messaging me in Windows messenger when I havent even opened it yet. I've scrolled through process lists, and everything, even Add/Removed Windows Messenger. The damn thing still stays. Its like Gator!

* MS invents its own version of JavaScript called "JScript", that contains several small differences that prevent pages displaying properly on non IE browsers (unless you re-write sections of the code for other browsers)

- Noone forces you to use it, especially since IE apparently can execute regular JavaScript.

Actually you ARE forced to use it because Internet Explorer only executes Jscript, not Javascript. Both scripts are very similar, virtually identical syntax, but because of the differences with some ways of addressing elements you need to rewrite sections of the code to work on IE and other browsers. There is no real good reason why IE should differ from the standards, but as a result you get people developing only for IE "JScript" instead of having somthing that works on all browsers because they're too lazy to rewrite sections of their code.

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No Microsoft are not going too far.

They are an enterprise / a business. They are all about making money through quality products. No Microsoft product will kill off any other product unless the consumer dig deep and buys the Microsoft product.

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