Windows: It

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Dot Matrix
Posted

Maybe the hybrid UI implementation will be over, but Windows/Microsoft, nah. I think we're kidding ourselves if at this stage we are to believe within 30 days MS couldn't release Windows 8 Sans Modern UI. I absolutely do not believe they are not maintaining concurrent builds until they know this plan will succeed.

If Windows Blue experiences a "failure to launch" I think you will see major backtracking even to the point of restoring the Start Menu, but it would take another 14% sales decline after blue, combined with lackluster (last place) Phone and Tablet sales. There is a fail safe, I can guarantee that. They'll never admit it now, that would be a disaster.

They will enable the Start Menu and Boot to Desktop faster than you can boot Windows 8 off a SSD Raid if things continue as is after Blue.

You're living in a world of delusion. Microsoft isn't going to backtrack anything. You don't do that in the world of tech. Windows 8 has too many important changes, to just simply remove. If they didn't backtrack with 8.1, they certainly won't with 9, either.

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adrynalyne
Posted

You're living in a world of delusion. Microsoft isn't going to backtrack anything. You don't do that in the world of tech. Windows 8 has too many important changes, to just simply remove. If they didn't backtrack with 8.1, they certainly won't with 9, either.

While I use Windows 8 and am fine with it...thats a load right there.

You DO backtrack in tech if you make a mistake. You don't continue making them.

And don't tell me there weren't mistakes with Windows 8. I am fine with it, you are fine with it, the majority is not.

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ShadowMajestic
Posted

Lol. Hardly. SJVN is a world class idiot. His articles are nothing but flamibait, and have been for years. This man decries everything Microsoft. They could cure cancer, and SJVN would still **** and moan.

Better yet, Microsoft is involved with cancer research.

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MorganX
Posted

You're living in a world of delusion. Microsoft isn't going to backtrack anything. You don't do that in the world of tech. Windows 8 has too many important changes, to just simply remove. If they didn't backtrack with 8.1, they certainly won't with 9, either.

What's delusional is not realizing that backtracking on users don't need more than 2 apps at the same time, by adding more snap views in Blue, is backtracking due to user demand. The Search fixes leaked are backtracking on MS notion that 90% of the time users searched for apps and unified search wasn't wanted.

Stop being ridiculous d-matrix.

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bigmehdi
Posted

You're living in a world of delusion. Microsoft isn't going to backtrack anything. You don't do that in the world of tech. Windows 8 has too many important changes, to just simply remove. If they didn't backtrack with 8.1, they certainly won't with 9, either.

They don't have to backtrack anything, they just have to give user choices, such like the ability to boot to desktop,

or to ignore the metro side if they aren't interested.

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Raa
Posted

Like BIll Gates coming back to Microsoft! If someone could get a company up and thriving, it would be him!

He's not coming back, sorry. :(

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adrynalyne
Posted

They don't have to backtrack anything, they just have to give user choices, such like the ability to boot to desktop,

or to ignore the metro side if they aren't interested.

I think he considers that backtracking...

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MorganX
Posted

I think he considers that backtracking...

Since they made the decision not to provide those things, it would be backtracking.

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Dot Matrix
Posted

What's delusional is not realizing that backtracking on users don't need more than 2 apps at the same time, by adding more snap views in Blue, is backtracking due to user demand. The Search fixes leaked are backtracking on MS notion that 90% of the time users searched for apps and unified search wasn't wanted.

Stop being ridiculous d-matrix.

That's not backtracking. That's carrying on. As Metro evolves, it'll gain new features. Chances are these features were already planned, but not implemented due to time constraints. Microsoft backtracking to a Windows 7 state is never going to happen, though.

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Growled
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Posted

I'm convinced that Windows 8 is not the complete problem Sure a lot of people don't like it, but they would adjust in time. The main problem boils down to price. Most people already have phones that do much of what they want to do and a lot already have a computer with some form of Windows on it. They don't see the need to upgrade or get another computer with Windows, especially when a tablet at a much more reasonable price will do them just fine.

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Atomic Wanderer Chicken
Posted

He's not coming back, sorry. :(

Bill Gates is a super genius and 1000x better of a CEO than Ballmer obviously! He needs to come back, and demote Ballmer! He is the founder of Microsoft, and Gates could come back anytime he wants!

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contextfree
Posted

I more or less agree with all that. Except the closing of apps. Technically pointless yes, but much more efficient. For many users, myself included, it is quicker to close or minimize and app to get to what's behind it than to go to an app bar or finger switch to next app. Say calculator, do a calc, copy result, just close. Spreadsheet behind. As long at W32 reigns supreme, this UX will butt heads with the optimal way to use the Modern UI. It's a transitional thing that may not go away.

They're pretty much exactly the same in terms of effort. Closing a (maximized) (desktop) app to switch to previous app behind it = click in top-right corner, switch to previous Windows Store app = click in top left corner.

I think you identified the real problem though, people (especially the sort of devoted PC users who tend to post on message boards :) ) have ingrained habits of PC usage that are hard to break. Most people using iOS or Android devices don't even think to worry or wonder about closing apps, which I don't think is because of anything inherent to touch or tablet form factors (other than that using something physically different can suspend existing habits), but just because people come to those devices fresh with no preconceived expectations. However, I think it's those habits and expectations that cause people to think of a PC as something more cumbersome or stressful to use than newer devices - you have to worry about "managing" a PC in a way you don't with an iPad. And so as long as those expectations continue, PCs will continue to lose ground to devices perceived as more hassle-free.

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Growled
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Posted

Bill Gates is a super genius and 1000x better of a CEO than Ballmer obviously! He needs to come back, and demote Ballmer! He is the founder of Microsoft, and Gates could come back anytime he wants!

I don't think even he could save the PC market. People are moving on, slowly but surely toward mobility.

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MorganX
Posted

That's not backtracking. That's carrying on.

Nevermind. I am no match for the d-Matrix reality distortion field. Steve Jobs would be quite proud of you my friend. :p

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MorganX
Posted

They're pretty much exactly the same in terms of effort. Closing a (maximized) (desktop) app to switch to previous app behind it = click in top-right corner, switch to previous Windows Store app = click in top left corner.

I think you identified the real problem though, people (especially the sort of devoted PC users who tend to post on message boards :) ) have ingrained habits of PC usage that are hard to break.

I agree with second paragraph. First paragraph, no, not for me. Maximized window, requires less precision and targeting. App switch requires more precision, plus a wait, then a target on appropriate thumbnail, even assuming it's the only one or you lose the bar. Same thing if you minimize as opposed to close. I've been using for 6 months now, a lot, and App switch bar will never become a reflex action. It's really nice on a tablet though, seriously, well designed. It's perfect for that.

It's not a big issue for me, I do understand it though. And for me, closing and reopening and app is basically instant. If you use keyboard shortcuts for app switching and/or closing it's the same effort. Nothing in Modern UI can compare to the Explorer UI/MDI. I don't think it's supposed to. I think MS used faulty data to determine most desktop users don't use more than two apps at a time.

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Crimson Rain
Posted

Lol. Hardly. SJVN is a world class idiot. His articles are nothing but flamibait, and have been for years. This man decries everything Microsoft. They could cure cancer, and SJVN would still **** and moan.

If MS release a medicine that cures cancer, and aids and distribute them for free, this dude will publish articles saying MS is making other cancer researches lose money, helping world's population to grow even more and promoting protection free se etc.

This dude would probably nuke whole Redmond just to get rid of Microsoft...then again, if MS is not there, who will he write his **** articles about?

His articles attract a lot of people (just read the comments). I have to give him this at least.

Sometimes I feel like ZDNet has instructed him to write in this way cause of pagehits...

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MorganX
Posted

I don't think even he could save the PC market. People are moving on, slowly but surely toward mobility.

The base isn't diminishing, just new sales. That's important for MS. Millions upgrade and buy new apps for features, capabilities, etc. Many build their own PCs. Microcenter is actually flourishing here.

Windows 7 generated new apps that ran better or were more capable for Windows 7. Designed for Windows 7 did well. There's no such thing for Windows 8. It's taking way too long. Not a single AAA game for Windows 8 Modern UI has been announced, nor serious application. So if all the apps and games run under Win 32, there is absolutely no need to upgrade to Windows 8 or purchase a new PC for new capabilities with Windows 8.

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webeagle12
Posted

The only failure in this article is ZDNet

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Growled
  • Member
Posted

Lol. Hardly. SJVN is a world class idiot. His articles are nothing but flamibait, and have been for years. This man decries everything Microsoft. They could cure cancer, and SJVN would still **** and moan.

He really writes some good Linux articles. I enjoy those. I still haven't decided if he is 100% serious when he writes articles against Windows.

The base isn't diminishing, just new sales. That's important for MS. Millions upgrade and buy new apps for features, capabilities, etc. Many build their own PCs. Microcenter is actually flourishing here.

I believe the new sales are going to mobile devices and when it's time it's time to upgrade those devices the users will probably do so. I have a PC and I am counted in their base but I haven't turned the thing on in ages. A lot of people are like me. It's just a matter of time before the base diminishes.

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xWhiplash
Posted

Say what you want about all of these articles, but the damage is being done. General user Joe Smith user does not care if ZDNet is horrible or not. They see all of these articles and make up their mind that Windows 8 sucks without trying it. This is Windows Vista all over again. Why didn't Microsoft learn from this?

I had to help somebody with their Windows 8 computer, I was in Desktop so I pressed the Windows key and started typing. He said "How the hell did you bring up search?!".

Windows 8 is a giant mess. Invisible menus and hidden features are not good. He had no idea you can just type to search.

Also, for the last time, companies are not immune to failures. All you people saying Microsoft will not backtrack. Why? It would be business suicide IF....IF (note....IF) EVERYBODY that uses it requests that they change it.

IF......IF (note....IF) Microsoft releases Windows 9+ and they decide to go the chrome book way and only have Internet Explorer and other internet only solutions, you are saying there is NO POSSIBLE WAY Microsoft would revert back?

Microsoft WILL BACKTRACK IF....IF (note the IF) enough of the consumers / businesses need them to.

If everybody thought like that, that would be a disaster. If we just accept whatever a company does and not voice our opinions, nothing will change.

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Dot Matrix
Posted

Windows 7 generated new apps that ran better or were more capable for Windows 7. Designed for Windows 7 did well. There's no such thing for Windows 8.

Huh? There's an ENTIRE store dedicated to Windows 8 apps! Also where are the Windows 7 apps? Where was all the promises Microsoft made with Windows 7 apps, and Adobe AIR, etc? Neowin's list is lackluster at best.

It's taking way too long. Not a single AAA game for Windows 8 Modern UI has been announced, nor serious application. So if all the apps and games run under Win 32, there is absolutely no need to upgrade to Windows 8 or purchase a new PC for new capabilities with Windows 8.

False.

Twitter, Skype, OneNote, EverNote, Kindle, SkyDrive, DropBox, Lync, Nokia Music, VLC, CNN, NBC News, NY TImes, ABC News, Fresh Paint, Wikipedia, Netflix, Hulu, Firefox, and Chrome. Office is coming soon as well. You're also never going to see a AAA title outside of Steam or Origin, they have the market locked down.

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xWhiplash
Posted

Huh? There's an ENTIRE store dedicated to Windows 8 apps! Also where are the Windows 7 apps? Where was all the promises Microsoft made with Windows 7 apps, and Adobe AIR, etc? Neowin's list is lackluster at best.

False.

Twitter, Skype, OneNote, EverNote, Kindle, SkyDrive, DropBox, Lync, Nokia Music, VLC, CNN, NBC News, NY TImes, ABC News, Fresh Paint, Firefox, and Chrome. Office is coming soon as well. You're also never going to see a AAA title outside of Steam or Origin, they have the market locked down.

Why do you keep bringing up Windows 7 apps? There are a lot more Windows programs than apps. What are you looking for that does not exist? There is Microsoft Office, FL Studio, Sony Acid, Steam, Impulse, Origin and thousands of games from indie to AAA, Adobe Suite now on CS6, Visual Studio, 3DS Max, Blender, SQL Management Studio, Screen Recording, music programs, ...

I could go on for hours with that list. What are you looking for that exists in Windows 8 that does not exist in Windows 7? What is the absolutely MUST NEEDED app that is not available in some form for Windows 7? Angry Birds?

Also, MorganX meant SERIOUS APPLICATION. Meaning where is the full Photoshop (not photoshop elements-like, the FULL Photoshop) app? Where is the 3DS Max app? Those are SERIOUS apps. What you listed are not serious productive apps.

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adrynalyne
Posted

Huh? There's an ENTIRE store dedicated to Windows 8 apps! Also where are the Windows 7 apps? Where was all the promises Microsoft made with Windows 7 apps, and Adobe AIR, etc? Neowin's list is lackluster at best.

False.

Twitter, Skype, OneNote, EverNote, Kindle, SkyDrive, DropBox, Lync, Nokia Music, VLC, CNN, NBC News, NY TImes, ABC News, Fresh Paint, Wikipedia, Netflix, Hulu, Firefox, and Chrome. Office is coming soon as well. You're also never going to see a AAA title outside of Steam or Origin, they have the market locked down.

Just about all of those have better featured desktop counterparts.

Most Windows 8 apps are hollow shells that have less features than desktop applications.

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Dot Matrix
Posted

Just about all of those have better featured desktop counterparts.

Most Windows 8 apps are hollow shells that have less features than desktop applications.

Half of those don't even have desktop counterparts.

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