Why the return of the Start button is far more problematic than _____.


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I still can't believe some people at Microsoft believe hidden and for tablet specific usage controls is a good UI method.

hot corner is a well known concept and explained in the startup tutorial.

the start button hoter corner, or ANY of the hot corners are also anything but tablet specific, since they can't be used on tablets. they are inf act Mouse specific.

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hot corner is a well known concept and explained in the startup tutorial.

the start button hoter corner, or ANY of the hot corners are also anything but tablet specific, since they can't be used on tablets. they are inf act Mouse specific.

You're assuming that everyone that uses Windows 8 has also installed it? :p I worked in Desktop management for large companies and the users didn't install their own workstations, the learning curve for Windows 8 is quite large as pointed out in many articles across the web and countless "first use" Youtube videos. I mean even Windows 95 had the intro dialogue on the desktop telling people where and what "Start" did until you manually disabled the "Welcome screen"!

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You're assuming that everyone that uses Windows 8 has also installed it? :p I worked in Desktop management for large companies and the users didn't install their own workstations, the learning curve for Windows 8 is quite large as pointed out in many articles across the web and countless "first use" Youtube videos. I mean even Windows 95 had the intro dialogue on the desktop telling people where and what "Start" did until you manually disabled the "Welcome screen"!

Unless I'm mistaken, the tutorial appears the first time each user logs on to the PC.

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You realize the new start button wont be the same at previous versions of Windows, its not going to have a full blow menu, it's just going to be a short cut to the start screen.

Quite possibly the single most moronic idea to come outta ms since the metro disaster...

I figure people would stop complaining about the stupid start menu.. Its been dead for how many months now??

Dead...??? Are you kidding...?? Most people using 8 are doing so with a start menu add-on. Somewhat less than "dead".... imho, of course...

Second, The Windows Store is beneficial to every single PC user out there. And, yes, the quality apps are easy to locate, Microsoft highlights those monthly.

Wrong-oh....

The windows store is beneficial to Microsoft. Period. The kiddie apps it contains are for, well...kids... as are metro apps in general. kiddie crap. Dumbed down versions of real apps.

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if there's anything MS went wrong with on 8, I'd say it's the "Tutorial". it barely shows you anything and you can't even activate it again after you see it the first time you log in

the "Tutorial" is absolute crap, it basically just says (for a split second) throw your mouse in corners and see what happens

and yes, i'm putting tutorial in quotes for a reason, i don't consider that piece of crap a real tutorial. it feels like they just kept putting the tutorial off and threw that in there last second (kind of like the theme which they actually did do last second :p)

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Dead...??? Are you kidding...?? Most people using 8 are doing so with a start menu add-on. Somewhat less than "dead".... imho, of course...

Eh no, "some" of the self proclaimed pro users use start8 and similar, but th large majority of users do not. in fact they're using the start screen just fine.

Wrong-oh....

The windows store is beneficial to Microsoft. Period. The kiddie apps it contains are for, well...kids... as are metro apps in general. kiddie crap. Dumbed down versions of real apps.

so you just didn't have any real valid argument and decided to sprout some un-educated garbage about how you think a whole bunch of different apps you haven't even tried are kiddie apps. good job.

if there's anything MS went wrong with on 8, I'd say it's the "Tutorial". it barely shows you anything and you can't even activate it again after you see it the first time you log in

the "Tutorial" is absolute crap, it basically just says (for a split second) throw your mouse in corners and see what happens

and yes, i'm putting tutorial in quotes for a reason, i don't consider that piece of crap a real tutorial. it feels like they just kept putting the tutorial off and threw that in there last second (kind of like the theme which they actually did do last second :p)

oh how I wish it stayed only for a split second. since it takes at least a minute or more before it goes on. the only ting it does is make it take 2+ more minutes for me to set up clients computers when I finish the initial set-up for them. and when it runs the tutorial it doesn't actually do anythign in the background, only if you do a full install. but not on the oem completion.

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Wrong-oh....

The windows store is beneficial to Microsoft. Period. The kiddie apps it contains are for, well...kids... as are metro apps in general. kiddie crap. Dumbed down versions of real apps.

Christ, are you really that thick? I take it then the Apple and Google stores are only beneficial to those companies as well and not users? Or is this yet something else everyone else is allowed to do, but not Microsoft?

Where's my can of Troll-B-Gon...? :spell:

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oh how I wish it stayed only for a split second. since it takes at least a minute or more before it goes on. the only ting it does is make it take 2+ more minutes for me to set up clients computers when I finish the initial set-up for them. and when it runs the tutorial it doesn't actually do anythign in the background, only if you do a full install. but not on the oem completion.

Agreed. It takes far too long and they really need to add some way to skip it. I also agree that it could be a bit more thorough. It seems that they are showing users that they can swipe from the edges with a single example and then assuming that users will explore for themselves but, judging by some of the users on this forum, this hasn't been clear enough. Rather than repeat the same brief instruction over and over, they should have added a few more examples of swiping from different edges.

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Agreed. It takes far too long and they really need to add some way to skip it. I also agree that it could be a bit more thorough. It seems that they are showing users that they can swipe from the edges with a single example and then assuming that users will explore for themselves but, judging by some of the users on this forum, this hasn't been clear enough. Rather than repeat the same brief instruction over and over, they should have added a few more examples of swiping from different edges.

like i said, it just feels like something they put off till the last minute and threw that in because they needed SOMETHING
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Why does anyone think the Start Button wouldn't be anchored to the Taskbar just like it is in 7 or the Dev preview. Where did you get this disjointed idea from?

It has zero effect on Metro or its Apps, so don't get any of that either.

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How does the addition of a permanent visual cue in the form of a button break the new UI? Why does it matter if it is added there or not. Why are people demanding that it is optional? It will not affect the taskbar that much. The extra space it will need will not change that much.

If anything, the start hot corner is what breaks the UI design. You need to click pinned programs which are visible on the taskbar (your pinned apps are not a hot corner), an actual button you can click to bring up the Start Screen fits nicely with what the taskbar already does.

The removal of the button confused a few people I know. When something is there for 17 years, and now it is not, they just think you can no longer click it. It is not there, they did not know it was now a hot corner.

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Christ, are you really that thick? I take it then the Apple and Google stores are only beneficial to those companies as well and not users? Or is this yet something else everyone else is allowed to do, but not Microsoft?

Where's my can of Troll-B-Gon...? :spell:

No thicker than the "head in the sand" types that continue to believe that windows metro is anything other than an abject failure. Talk about thick.... sheesh.... :rolleyes:

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No thicker than the "head in the sand" types that continue to believe that windows metro is anything other than an abject failure. Talk about thick.... sheesh.... :rolleyes:

I don't think it is a COMPLETE failure.. It works great on tablets.. It is just failure for Desktop users. Businesses won't be switching to Windows 8 anytime soon IMO. We can install start8 to fix this "issue" on hand.. but Windows 8 doesn't offer end users much improvement over 7 for day to day business operations.

However, I did get an order approved to install Touch Screen Windows 8 PCs in the break rooms and meetings rooms so users can start messing around with it and ease them into the future of Windows..

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My main gripe is dealing with the corners on multiple monitors or an RDP session.

Being able to disable hot corners should absolutely be a built-in option. By it's very nature, MS should know there will be many scenarios and many users that this will cause issues for.

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it does appear to make sense, have a read again to see what he said. I'd have to agree with Neo here, removing elements which otherwise UX wise would have made it more intuitive is a mega negative for me too.

No it doesn't to me. What is he talking about? Read the entire sentence. It doesn't make sense lmao. But sure, just post to say it makes sense to you but don't clarify what is meant...

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Being able to disable hot corners should absolutely be a built-in option. By it's very nature, MS should know there will be many scenarios and many users that this will cause issues for.

Yep. I don't think MS did a lot of thinking with 8.. Hopefully DotMatrix is taking notes and sending it to the dev team :) lol

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No it doesn't to me. What is he talking about? Read the entire sentence. It doesn't make sense lmao. But sure, just post to say it makes sense to you but don't clarify what is meant...

i just explained what he meant, have a read.

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I don't think it is a COMPLETE failure.. It works great on tablets..

True enough, I suppose. But here's the rub.... most tablets have either android or apple. Windows tablets don't even rise to the level of "also ran". Which makes it kinda insane to pander to the tablet market, and **** off the billion or so desktop users who despise metro.

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Interesting point Rickkins. Thats still the 800lb gorilla in the room to me. I'm all in on Metro but I've yet to see any of the apologists argue for Metro over the other phablets on the market vs picking fights with the bread and butter PC crowd.

Derp should have been haunting the iOS and Android sub-forums.

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I don't think it is a COMPLETE failure..

For all it's technical merits, it is a failure because it has failed to sale.That is the bottom line.

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Riddle me this. If the iPad is so great, then why can't I multitask on it like I can on my Surface? And Android? Doesn't have anything on the power of Windows. I still can't get **** done like I can using Windows. Metro is pretty quickly becoming quite a powerful platform. Just look at the changes coming in "Blue".

Interesting point Rickkins. Thats still the 800lb gorilla in the room to me. I'm all in on Metro but I've yet to see any of the apologists argue for Metro over the other phablets on the market vs picking fights with the bread and butter PC crowd.

Derp should have been haunting the iOS and Android sub-forums.

Also, I do not appreciate being called names.

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Riddle me this. If the iPad is so great, then why can't I multitask on it like I can on my Surface? And Android? Doesn't have anything on the power of Windows. I still can't get **** done like I can using Windows. Metro is pretty quickly becoming quite a powerful platform. Just look at the changes coming in "Blue".

It's not always the best that wins. Public opinion is a fickle ting.

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