Civilian Cargo Plane crash caught on tape.

[Titoist]

This is a US Civilian Cargo Plane that crashed taking off from Baghram Military Airport in Afghanistan. 7 Pilots and Crew were killed as the plane dropped like a rock. This was most likely caused by a shift in cargo.

http://youtu.be/79FXTA2K40g

[calimike]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/us_cargo_plane_crash_in_afghanistan_SX096AUPuu1N6l8iLUTlQM

[Growled Member]

That's terrible but accidents happen.

[Blaze_Zewi]

I wounder if they distribute the weight of whatever they are transfering evenly. :cry:

[Titoist]

I found it interesting how the plane had a nice speed and incline (from my experience flying) when all of the sudden it just lost all momentum and stopped in midair. An engine loss would still give them some momentum to level out and glide, but this was just a dead stop, faster than a stall too.

[Mr. Gibs]

Looks like they lost power to both engine. :cry:

Nope. You can hear the engines spooling up to TOGA power (a lot of the time big jets won't use full power on take-off because it would destroy the runway faster, could possibly overheat the engines, waste fuel, noises etc).

The most likely scenario was that the cargo the plane was carrying wasn't secured down properly, hence when the plane started climbing, the load shifted to the back and created a rear CG. If the rear CG was severe enough (like in this case) it'll cause the plane to stall and the elevators won't have enough authority to bring the nose back down. So the plane will remain in a stall, possibly spin and eventually crash to the ground (like in this case).

Generally speaking it's the captains responsibility to make sure the cargo he's carrying has been secured down properly and the weight and cg locations are within limits. After years though a lot of them get complacent and just trust that the load master did his job correctly (which they should have done).

If anyone was wondering this was the plane that crashed:

[McKay]

Nope. The most likely scenario was that the cargo the plane was carrying wasn't secured down properly, hence when the plane started climbing, the load shifted to the back and created a rear CG. If the rear CG was severe enough (like in this case) it'll cause the plane to stall and the elevators won't have enough authority to bring the nose back down. So the plane will remain in a stall, possibly spin and eventually crash to the ground (like in this case).

Generally speaking it's the captains responsibility to make sure the cargo he's carrying has been secured down properly and the weight and cg locations are within limits. After years though a lot of them get complacent and just trust that the load master did his job correctly (which they should have done).

Somewhere, someone is frantically checking signatures of Job Cards, praying to the Gods that his name isnt by it.

[Titoist]

Is that a 747? If so, that is one big beast to fall.

[Mr. Gibs]

Is that a 747? If so, that is one big beast to fall.

Yup 747-400. If you look at the video carefully you can see that just before the plane starts it's dive it looks like it's stationary for a second or so. That's the power of 200,000+ lbs of trust. :no:

The cargo that it was carrying was 5 MRAPs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAP ) and apparently the final communication to ATC was a loud banging noise heard from the back which could possibly mean the straps snapped and the cargo fell backwards causing a cascading effect. Each of those MRAPs weighs 14+ tons, so that's going to be a major load shift.

Also btw, what licenses you have since you said you have flying experience?

[Nashy]

I found it interesting how the plane had a nice speed and incline (from my experience flying) when all of the sudden it just lost all momentum and stopped in midair. An engine loss would still give them some momentum to level out and glide, but this was just a dead stop, faster than a stall too.

The first thing I thought when it was going up, that it was pitched far too high for a 747. Then it just stalled. I'd say we'll be looking at a major load shift or incorrect loading.

[Titoist]

Yup 747-400. If you look at the video carefully you can see that just before the plane starts it's dive it looks like it's stationary for a second or so. That's the power of 200,000+ lbs of trust. :no:

The cargo that it was carrying was 5 MRAPs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAP ) and apparently the final communication to ATC was a loud banging noise heard from the back which could possibly mean the straps snapped and the cargo fell backwards causing a cascading effect. Each of those MRAPs weighs 14+ tons, so that's going to be a major load shift.

Also btw, what licenses you have since you said you have flying experience?

When I said flying experience, I meant I travel a lot and I love take-offs and landings. From actual flying experience.... 10 years of Microsoft Flight Simulator :p

[Mr. Gibs]

When I said flying experience, I meant I travel a lot and I love take-offs and landings. From actual flying experience.... 10 years of Microsoft Flight Simulator :p

Ah lol was wondering if there was another pilot on Neowin :rofl:

[nfiniti9]

Yup 747-400. If you look at the video carefully you can see that just before the plane starts it's dive it looks like it's stationary for a second or so. That's the power of 200,000+ lbs of trust. :no:

The cargo that it was carrying was 5 MRAPs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAP ) and apparently the final communication to ATC was a loud banging noise heard from the back which could possibly mean the straps snapped and the cargo fell backwards causing a cascading effect. Each of those MRAPs weighs 14+ tons, so that's going to be a major load shift.

Also btw, what licenses you have since you said you have flying experience?

I wonder what kind of thrust you need to pull out of that. Theoretically you could pull out with a ton of thrust if the frame could even take it.

[Mr. Gibs]

I wonder what kind of thrust you need to pull out of that. Theoretically you could pull out with a ton of thrust if the frame could even take it.

Yeah theoretically you probably could, but reality the plane is just too heavy. You would need massive amounts of thrust to overcome the wings being useless, for an extremely heavy plane like the 747 the airframe would have be incredibly strong. As the plane climbs the engines become less and less powerful, and eventually they wouldn't produce enough power to keep the plane flying (and so it'll stall, spin etc).

Fighter jets can do vertical climbs because they produce massive amounts of thrust compared to their weight. But here's some fun facts for you. 1 747 engine produces almost the same thrust as the f-22's 2 engines do with the afterburner engaged. 1 777 engine can produce just under twice as much trust as the afterburning f-22. Those engines are ridiculously powerful as it is.

F-22 engine with afterburner: 35,000 lbs

747-400 Engine: 63,300 lbs (the 8l has slightly more powerful engines that produce 65,000)

777-300 engine: rated at 115,300 lbs of thrust, but has been tested at 128,000 or something like that.

The other thing is it would be an extremely unstable plane. The thrust would keep the plane in the air but the rear CG would keep forcing the nose up, and you'd have to have a massive horizontal stabilizer to keep forcing the nose back down. But having a massive horizontal stabilizer would make for a very very sensitive plane.

So anyways, yes a massive amount of thrust would theoretically work at first, but the other design considerations wouldn't make it effective. The only real way to fix such a massive load shift would be to well shift the load back to the appropriate CG range. If this plane was at altitude, they might have had the time to be able to do that. But they just took off and it happened so fast (they didn't even have the landing gear retracted) that they were pretty much dead the second the straps broke and the cargo fell backwards.

[123456789A]

Looks like the seat backs and tray tables were not in the upright and locked position this time.

[J_R_G]

Looks like the seat backs and tray tables were not in the upright and locked position this time.

Or maybe someone used their smart phone during take off? :) Not to make fun though, this is a terrible and preventable waste of life.

[Mr. Gibs]

Looks like the seat backs and tray tables were not in the upright and locked position this time.

Believe it or not, it's actually a valid safety concern.

1. With the seat upright you can get into a brace position easier.

2. In the case of an evacuation, having seats that are pushed back will make it harder for people to get out. The space between seats is already small as it is but if everyones seats were at different positions, it would take longer to evacuate the plane.

3. In the case of a very hard landing, survivable crash etc, an unlocked tray table could smack into your face.

4. Pushing the seats upright reduces the rear CG by a little bit I think.

Seems silly but remember that we live in a world run by lawyers. A simple unlocked tray table could break someones nose and then he'd sue the airline, might as well try to prevent it.

[DocM]

Almost certainly the load shifted and caused that huge stall.

That airline was stationed at the Willow Run Airport (<8 miles from here) until last year when it relocated to Florida, but a lot of its crews and staff are still in the region.

5 guys from this area were killed in the crash, one who just got married leaving his wife, daughter, stepdaughter and a baby on the way - due in October. We were concerned an acquaintance was on board, but he was on another flight and had just arrived in Hong Kong.

[NateB1]

^ Oh no. :( Sorry to hear that.

[DocM]

Sigh....a 6th from the area. Damn :(

[Growled Member]

That's terrible, Doc. My thoughts and prays go out t them.