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Windows 8 / 10: Shutdown Hibernation hybrid : Consumers confused.

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NightScreams    97
Lord Method Man, on 25 Sept 2013 - 18:39, said:

Im not seeing where using Hibernation is unhealthy for a PC. Mine only get started once a month when updates requirement. Its been like that for years and Ive never had "health" issues relating to is.

Its all about the user. Every user is as different as the problems they usually create for themselves.

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+warwagon    13,113

So today in Windows 8 I tapped "Shut down" on my Acer w500 then once it turned off I took the back off and removed the Msata and cloned it over to a faster and larger Sata III Msata. after the clone I turned the tablet back on and during the boot it blue-screened my guess is because shutting down is now hibernation and so I cloned it in a hibernated state.

 

After restarting it booted up but everything was bitching about corruption. So I did a chkdsk /f on the next reboot and everything seems to be working fine.

 

So I guess if you are going to clone a Windows 8 install, do a restart and then once it goes black shut the computer off.

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+xrobwx    800

Well that's his first problem... :p

 

On topic, I love the fast boot and haven't had a problem with it.  But then again, I rarely shutdown my laptop...mostly it just sleeps.  Haven't had any issues.

 

It's also not accurate to just lump everyone together and say consumers are confused.  A couple people are confused and you got their calls, but that's your job (I imagine).  You don't hear about all the people whom it's working just fine for.

I agree. I have had zero issues with this. You also see lots of Win 8 bashing but no solutions.  :laugh:

If you turn off Fast Start-up from Power Options in the Control Panel that will disable Hybrid Shutdown.

Thanks Lime!!!!

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Crimson Rain    112

I disabled fast startup/hybrid hibernation on Windows 8 because I didn't feel it was healthy for my pc. It is almost the same as a human staying awake endlessly and getting no sleep.

I have run computers WITHOUT a single restart for over a year; yes, uptime over a year. Didn't face any issue.

 

May be you should get your facts checked.

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Mr. Gibs    3,865

Based on this entire thread

I haven't had a single issue with the fast shutdown / startup on 3 different computers now and I've been using Win 8 since release.

Then again I don't load up any of my computers with junk like most of your tech support clients do WarWagon ;)

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tkyoshi    7

So today in Windows 8 I tapped "Shut down" on my Acer w500 then once it turned off I took the back off and removed the Msata and cloned it over to a faster and larger Sata III Msata. after the clone I turned the tablet back on and during the boot it blue-screened my guess is because shutting down is now hibernation and so I cloned it in a hibernated state.

 

After restarting it booted up but everything was bitching about corruption. So I did a chkdsk /f on the next reboot and everything seems to be working fine.

 

So I guess if you are going to clone a Windows 8 install, do a restart and then once it goes black shut the computer off.

 

Actually, If you hold shift on your keyboard before clicking Shutdown, it will do a full (non-hybrid) shutdown.

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Newinko    34

Microsoft envisioned a "regular usage" case scenario where monthly reboots due to Automatic Update were deemed sufficient to clear out the cruft, especially considering fast shutdown is not a full hibernation state (just the kernel). There are a few scenarios where fast shutdown fails inexplicably user-side, mostly during a hardware update (since the drivers are reloaded as-is, some hardware changes will cause a BSOD).

 

Quite frankly, on a modern computer with a SSD, there is little difference between fast shutdown and standard shutdown. Might as well disable it completely...

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Mr. Gibs    3,865

Quite frankly, on a modern computer with a SSD, there is little difference between fast shutdown and standard shutdown. Might as well disable it completely...

Last I checked most people don't have SSDs. Even when people buy new computers they sometimes aren't willing to pay the price difference for something that they'll never really take full advantage off.

But I agree if you have a SSD there's really no point to it and it should get auto disabled like indexing does.

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PGHammer    1,482

The need for a 'fresh' restart really should be rare enough to fit within the normal update cycle. OTOH, I have noticed that Win8 seems to have more 'post-resume' HDD activity than Win7 so using this model does seem to have a trade-off.

The hybrid generally is due to certain rather common chipsets not supporting a true shutdown - and no, I am NOT referring to third-tier chipsets, either.  The biggest *offender* in not supporting a real shutdown is - shockingly - Intel, and it's a relatively recent offender.

 

I have one of those common chipsets with the flaw - G41, AKA Eagle Lake.  Needing a *fresh restart* has - at least for me - only been of use in a situation where I will fully shutdown and then boot into an OS (on the same drive) other than the one I shut down.  Other than that, hybrid shutdown is not an issue.  (It's not that I don't dual-boot on a common drive; two of my three OSes - 8.1 ProWMC and Server 2012R2 - share a drive.  However, both OSes act better than their replacements - Windows 7 and Server 2008R2 - do in the same situation; this is more remarkable in the case of Server 2012 and 2012R2, of course.)

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+warwagon    13,113

Here we go again.

 

I got a call from a customer who couldn't print to any of her 3 printers. 2 were usb one was wireless.

 

I asked her if she had tried restarting her computer. She said "Yes I've tried that a kazillion times".

 

Then I asked her if she was shutting down (Turning the computer off then on) or restarting. She was just shutting down and turning it back on. So I explained to her the difference and told her how to restart. After that, The printers started printing again.

 

I really think they need to back pedal on this. Make it the way it use to be. Or somehow let the user know that this is not "a replacement for a restart" like EVERYONE thinks it is!

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Eric    1,605

Here we go again.

 

I got a call from a customer who couldn't print to any of her 3 printers. 2 were usb one was wireless.

 

I asked her if she had tried restarting her computer. She said "Yes I've tried that a kazillion times".

 

Then I asked her if she was shutting down (Turning the computer off then on) or restarting. She was just shutting down and turning it back on. So I explained to her the difference and told her how to restart. After that, The printers started printing again.

 

I really think they need to back pedal on this. Make it the way it use to be. Or somehow let the user know that this is not "a replacement for a restart" like EVERYONE thinks it is!

 

This is a user issue, not a software issue.

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Chemaz    31

Quick solution, instead of asking if they have restarted, just get them to restart then and there, doesnt take too long to reboot

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+warwagon    13,113

This is a user issue, not a software issue.

 

Except for the fact that in Windows 95,98,Me,2000,XP,Vista and Windows 7 a shutdown really was the same thing as a restart. Now it's not but the user doesn't know that.

 

So I don't really see any user error here. In All previous version the user would be doing the right thing. How are they to know shutdown is now hibernation

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Draconian Guppy    13,037

Wait, if I click shutdown in the menu, it's not actually shutting down? 

What I usually do is, shutdown and unplug laptop  (power surges are a common thing here)(and battery removed)... I've yet to see any difference in start up when I keep it fully plugged in (battery and power cable connected).

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+warwagon    13,113

Wait, if I click shutdown in the menu, it's not actually shutting down? 

What I usually do is, shutdown and unplug laptop  (power surges are a common thing here)(and battery removed)... I've yet to see any difference in start up when I keep it fully plugged in (battery and power cable connected).

 

You are shutting down, same way when you choose hibernate in Windows7 you are still shutting down / turning off.

 

But in windows 8 when you turn back on you are are not cold booting you are hibernation hybrid booting.

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Max Norris    2,253

Not sure where the confusion is.. if you want to restart, why on earth would you tell it to do something else?  Every time I tell my daughter to shut her computer off before she goes to bed she hits the power button or presses that "off button" on the start menu.. and puts it to sleep.  (Windows 7.)   She doesn't know the difference or even cares.  If you want to make sure the thing restarts, tell it to restart.  Easy.  One of those little things you need to clearly explain to some people, goes with being in tech support, make no assumptions as to what the user knows because half the time it's usually wrong.

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Draconian Guppy    13,037

You are shutting down, same way when you choose hibernate in Windows7 you are still shutting down / turning off.

 

But in windows 8 when you turn back on you are are not cold booting you are hibernation hybrid booting.

Even if I remove the power cord and battery is not in?

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+warwagon    13,113

Not sure where the confusion is.. if you want to restart, why on earth would you tell it to do something else?  Every time I tell my daughter to shut her computer off before she goes to bed she hits the power button or presses that "off button" on the start menu.. and puts it to sleep.  (Windows 7.)   She doesn't know the difference or even cares.  If you want to make sure the thing restarts, tell it to restart.  Easy.

 

Except the average user for some reason has been programmed for the last 20 years if something doesn't work right, turn it off and turn it back on. Which would actually work in previous versions because in doing that they would be restarting windows.

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Chemaz    31

I disabled fast startup/hybrid hibernation on Windows 8 because I didn't feel it was healthy for my pc. It is almost the same as a human staying awake endlessly and getting no sleep.

wow.....just wow lol

 

Generally you would restart/proper shutdown at once a month for updates. Thats generally whenever i restart my comp, my main pc has an average uptime off 40days before a restart (its sent to sleep every night) and one of my win8 media servers is normally up around 100 days, no sleep, shutdown or restart, and still runs great! 

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Eric    1,605

Except for the fact that in Windows 95,98,Me,2000,XP,Vista and Windows 7 a shutdown really was the same thing as a restart. Now it's not but the user doesn't know that.

 

So I don't really see any user error here. In All previous version the user would be doing the right thing. How are they to know shutdown is now hibernation

 

Cars used to be started with cranks. Now they have ignition keys. It seems that everyone was able to make the transition.

 

(Windows 95-era computers didn't even shut off automatically. Windows told you it was safe turn off the power.)

 

Were you to be advocating for an official changelog for Windows I would totally support that. It's long overdue and there should be a "What's new" app that appears after any non-trivial update.

Even if I remove the power cord and battery is not in?

 

It's still suspended to disk. The hibernation file is basically a page file for everything currently in memory.

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+warwagon    13,113

Even if I remove the power cord and battery is not in?

 

Correct hibernation at least in windows 7, dumps the contents of ram to a hibernation file on the hard drive and then turns the computer completely off. Then when you turn the computer back on it puts the contents of that file back into memory.

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Max Norris    2,253

Except the average user for some reason has been programmed for the last 20 years if something doesn't work right, turn it off and turn it back on. Which would actually work in previous versions because in doing that they would be restarting windows.

Ok so get with the program and tell them to restart instead of going thru the extra hassle of a complete shutdown and power-on cycle?  Faster and less steps for everybody involved.  Only inconvenience seems to be to tech support who refuses to learn the new stuff, if anything it's a gain for the actual users as it speeds up startup time quite a bit.

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+warwagon    13,113

Cars used to be started with cranks. Now they have ignition keys. It seems that everyone was able to make the transition.

 

(Windows 95-era computers didn't even shut off automatically. Windows told you it was safe turn off the power.)

 

It's still suspended to disk. The hibernation file is basically a page file for everything currently in memory.

 

Turn off in the sense that when you turn it back on you would be cold booting

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Draconian Guppy    13,037

Cars used to be started with cranks. Now they have ignition keys. It seems that everyone was able to make the transition.

 

(Windows 95-era computers didn't even shut off automatically. Windows told you it was safe turn off the power.)

 

Were you to be advocating for an official changelog for Windows I would totally support that. It's long overdue and there should be a "What's new" app that appears after any non-trivial update.

 

It's still suspended to disk. The hibernation file is basically a page file for everything currently in memory.

Hmmm interesting

 

Correct hibernation at least in windows 7, dumps the contents of ram to a hibernation file on the hard drive and then turns the computer completely off. Then when you turn the computer back on it puts the contents of that file back into memory.

Now I want to try completely shutting down!

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